Church and members disagree on same-sex marriage

Patriot · Dec 30, 2015

Agoraphobic said:
Yes. We each have our own opinion on what happens after we die.

Here's an oldie but goodie by Jim Reeves for your listening pleasure:

THIS WORLD IS NOT MY HOME with LYRICS - JIM REEVES

Uploaded on Jul 22, 2009

I have been searching for the lyrics of this song on the internet's prime song lyrics websites, but none of them has the lyrics. It is fortunate that the crystal clear voice of Jim Reeves is fine and pure so one can easily get the words from him singing this hymn. So, I write the lyrics myself, but find uncomfortable because it seems that he recorded the song before that trajic plane crash.

Message of the song: This world is temporary, we are just passing through. Eternal life is in heaven, so be ready and prepared.. have JESUS in your life and follow/obey His commands.

Agoraphobic · Dec 30, 2015

Thanks Patriot, but Jim Reeves is more like what my mom would listen to. My music preference are from rock bands like Black Sabbath, AC/DC. Lots of guitar riffs and solos. Stuff my mom hates.

Cheers!

Patriot said:
Here's an oldie but goodie by Jim Reeves for your listening pleasure:.................

xMarkdSpot · Jan 22, 2016

in my opinion same sex marriage shouldn't be allowed, written in bible God created Adam first when he sees Adam is not a happy and decided to give him a companion He created Eve not another Adam... so I guess man are for woman, but I am not against man having a relation with another man and woman to woman. same sex marriage shouldn't be allowed.

Agoraphobic · Jan 25, 2016

Same-sex marriage is what has thrown the church into confusion and disunity. Because the "definition" of marriage originally was for a union between a man and a woman. Modern ways and lifestyles in society has caused this to come into debate. And in western democracies, where individual opinions and mass-popularity outweighs established norms and practices, same-sex marriage has gained ground in the last decades. I agree, we can't do anything to stop consenting adults from gay-relationships, but marriage brings along with it a set of legal issues that binds the couple, and has complications when separation follows later. This is up to the state (or courts) to consider.

Cheers!

xMarkdSpot said:
in my opinion same sex marriage shouldn't be allowed, written in bible God created Adam first when he sees Adam is not a happy and decided to give him a companion He created Eve not another Adam... so I guess man are for woman, but I am not against man having a relation with another man and woman to woman. same sex marriage shouldn't be allowed.

Patriot · Jan 25, 2016

xMarkdSpot said:
in my opinion same sex marriage shouldn't be allowed, written in bible God created Adam first when he sees Adam is not a happy and decided to give him a companion He created Eve not another Adam... so I guess man are for woman, but I am not against man having a relation with another man and woman to woman. same sex marriage shouldn't be allowed.

God created Adam & Eve- not Adam & Steve! Enough said!

Agoraphobic · Jan 26, 2016

God may have "created" things, like humans. But humans have developed individual thought, and fends for himself now. He no longer lives in God's Garden of Eden where everything was provided. He lives on Planet Earth, where he takes charge, and shapes the environment. God no longer provides everything man needs.

Cheers!

Patriot said:
God created Adam & Eve- not Adam & Steve! Enough said!

Patriot · Jan 26, 2016

Agoraphobic said:
God may have "created" things, like humans. But humans have developed individual thought, and fends for himself now. He no longer lives in God's Garden of Eden where everything was provided. He lives on Planet Earth, where he takes charge, and shapes the environment. God no longer provides everything man needs.

Cheers!

Sexual relationship between 2 persons of the same gender is unnatural and abnormal.

If God had indeed created Adam & Steve and not Adam & Eve, there will be no descendants of the so-called human race to begin with.

Agoraphobic · Jan 28, 2016

I agree that homosexuality is unnatural, but it happens. When two adults agree to be intimate with each other, what can anybody do about it? It is their own choice. Their decision.

Yes, there are male and female genders. And for mammals, copulation is necessary for reproduction. Our in-built sex-drives push us to procreate. But it seems that this urge to release semen also stem from other avenues. Sexual urge isn't restricted to reproductive reasons. There are men (and women) who become aroused when subjected to different stimuli. Continuity of species is inherent in all living creatures. Not just humans. It is almost like it was "built" into us, and every other living creature as well. If God made us in his image, does God have an urge for sex? Or is our concept of God, too humanised?

Cheers!

Patriot said:
Sexual relationship between 2 persons of the same gender is unnatural and abnormal.

If God had indeed created Adam & Steve and not Adam & Eve, there will be no descendants of the so-called human race to begin with.

Frodo · Jan 29, 2016

Agoraphobic said:
I agree that homosexuality is unnatural, but it happens. When two adults agree to be intimate with each other, what can anybody do about it? It is their own choice. Their decision.

Yes, there are male and female genders. And for mammals, copulation is necessary for reproduction. Our in-built sex-drives push us to procreate. But it seems that this urge to release semen also stem from other avenues. Sexual urge isn't restricted to reproductive reasons. There are men (and women) who become aroused when subjected to different stimuli. Continuity of species is inherent in all living creatures. Not just humans. It is almost like it was "built" into us, and every other living creature as well. If God made us in his image, does God have an urge for sex? Or is our concept of God, too humanised?

Cheers!

The issue is not over whether it is natural or not, or what man thinks about it. It is about what God says about it. And most people would have a pretty good idea as to what God says about homosexuality.

Agoraphobic · Feb 1, 2016

God may have his own idea about sexual relation (does s//he?). But what is there to stop the human being from making his or her own choice? Technology developed todate has allowed human beings from departing away from what is "natural" and still survive, quite well. For reproduction, cloning is already here. The only thing preventing humans from cloning ourselves is religious beliefs. How long more will this hold?

Cheers!

Frodo said:
The issue is not over whether it is natural or not, or what man thinks about it. It is about what God says about it. And most people would have a pretty good idea as to what God says about homosexuality.

Frodo · Feb 3, 2016

Agoraphobic said:
God may have his own idea about sexual relation (does s//he?). But what is there to stop the human being from making his or her own choice? Technology developed todate has allowed human beings from departing away from what is "natural" and still survive, quite well. For reproduction, cloning is already here. The only thing preventing humans from cloning ourselves is religious beliefs. How long more will this hold?

Cheers!

Of course God has His views on sex, since He made us. The Creator always has His plans and intentions and purpose. If you make a car you design it to take you from point A to point B. Of course the person who uses it can CHOOSE to use it as a killing machine by ramming it against people. You cannot stop people from exercising their free will, that's why we need the law and its consequences to reign in behaviour, being the fallen people we are.

Agoraphobic · Feb 3, 2016

Laws we live under are derived from man-made customs, norms, taditions, beliefs, and some common-sense. And they change as society changes. Free-will is what makes us individuals, not everyone wants to conform to a fixed set of rules. Those who choose to live under "god's laws" are free to do so. Others choose to live according to their own conscience and free will.

Cheers!

Frodo said:
Of course God has His views on sex, since He made us. The Creator always has His plans and intentions and purpose. If you make a car you design it to take you from point A to point B. Of course the person who uses it can CHOOSE to use it as a killing machine by ramming it against people. You cannot stop people from exercising their free will, that's why we need the law and its consequences to reign in behaviour, being the fallen people we are.

Frodo · Feb 3, 2016

Agoraphobic said:
Laws we live under are derived from man-made customs, norms, taditions, beliefs, and some common-sense. And they change as society changes. Free-will is what makes us individuals, not everyone wants to conform to a fixed set of rules. Those who choose to live under "god's laws" are free to do so. Others choose to live according to their own conscience and free will.

Cheers!

Man-made laws are centred around God's laws, notably the 10 commandmants, esp the 6th to 10th. All our laws can be directly or indirectly traced to them. Regardless of how society changes, there are certain objective moral values that remain universal in all cultures. People who think they are free to do as they will are under a delusion, or simply plain denial. They cannot even explain where moral values come from, or free will. Any of their explanation for such things that exclude God as the cause runs into deep problems. Apart from God their explanation becomes "evolution says so" or simply might/majority makes right.

Agoraphobic · Feb 4, 2016

I agree that many of our existing laws have been handed down from the past, when our species were frightened of the natural forces, and felt we had to appease the God's to have mercy on us. We (and neither can God) change history, so we live by those laws. Our morals, and sense of ethics have been shaped by them. But how many of us today feel we must live under all of these laws? Some are archaic, and irrelevant in our times.

Would you label non-believers as evil? We are able to draw the line between what is right and what is wrong, not because God tells us so, but our senses can judge where that line is. We practice our rights to the point before it crosses into and violates some other person's rights. Anything beyond would be wrong. We use our own judgement to decide. Not needing a God to tell us.

Cheers!

Frodo said:
Man-made laws are centred around God's laws, notably the 10 commandmants, esp the 6th to 10th. All our laws can be directly or indirectly traced to them. Regardless of how society changes, there are certain objective moral values that remain universal in all cultures. People who think they are free to do as they will are under a delusion, or simply plain denial. They cannot even explain where moral values come from, or free will. Any of their explanation for such things that exclude God as the cause runs into deep problems. Apart from God their explanation becomes "evolution says so" or simply might/majority makes right.

Frodo · Feb 4, 2016

Agoraphobic said:
I agree that many of our existing laws have been handed down from the past, when our species were frightened of the natural forces, and felt we had to appease the God's to have mercy on us. We (and neither can God) change history, so we live by those laws. Our morals, and sense of ethics have been shaped by them. But how many of us today feel we must live under all of these laws? Some are archaic, and irrelevant in our times.

Would you label non-believers as evil? We are able to draw the line between what is right and what is wrong, not because God tells us so, but our senses can judge where that line is. We practice our rights to the point before it crosses into and violates some other person's rights. Anything beyond would be wrong. We use our own judgement to decide. Not needing a God to tell us.

Cheers!

Which begs the question, where do our morals come from, our sense of ethics, right and wrong? Again apart from grounding such things in God, any explanation for them simply cannot make it. We are moral beings because we are made in God's image. Morality was wired into us from the start. But innocence was later corrupted by the Fall.

Agoraphobic · Feb 4, 2016

To answer your questions, our morals come from the society we live in and the norms practiced in it. Eg. in some countries, child-marriage is accepted, and is the norm, in other countries, it is illegal. In some countries, marijuana use is permitted, in other countries, it is a crime. Man makes the laws in the countries we live in. In some communities, gambling is encouraged, in others, it is a punishable offence.

Cheers!

Frodo said:
Which begs the question, where do our morals come from, our sense of ethics, right and wrong? Again apart from grounding such things in God, any explanation for them simply cannot make it. We are moral beings because we are made in God's image. Morality was wired into us from the start. But innocence was later corrupted by the Fall.

drifter · Mar 16, 2016

Agoraphobic said:
Christianity started out as a cult, and it grew to become the big Catholic Church. Every other offshoot (or Protestant Church) was at one time, a cult too. In the state of Utah, Mormons are the largest denomination, and is the official state religion. Members of CHC (City Harvest Church) - do they consider themselves a cult? Are they? Or are they Christians?

Cheers!

See the similarities?

drifter · Mar 16, 2016

Frodo said:
Which begs the question, where do our morals come from, our sense of ethics, right and wrong? Again apart from grounding such things in God, any explanation for them simply cannot make it. We are moral beings because we are made in God's image. Morality was wired into us from the start. But innocence was later corrupted by the Fall.

You don't need religion to tell you murder is wrong or raping is wrong, period

Frodo · Mar 17, 2016

drifter said:
You don't need religion to tell you murder is wrong or raping is wrong, period

Correct. But you need GOD to tell you that. And in a way He has done so, by creating us as moral beings and giving us a conscience. However this conscience has been affected by the Fall, yet it is not all lost....even village atheists can vouch for a conscience, though they deny it is from God, and has no clue why it is there apart from God.

Agoraphobic · Mar 17, 2016

If what is say is true, there is no need for humans to find cures for diseases, as it will be determined by God whether we die by that disease or not. I am glad that there are people who are "disobedient" to the almighty God, and look for solutions to the problems nature has given us, after your loving God banished Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden, and had to deal with nature and its forces by their wits.

Cheers!

Frodo said:
Correct. But you need GOD to tell you that. And in a way He has done so, by creating us as moral beings and giving us a conscience. However this conscience has been affected by the Fall, yet it is not all lost....even village atheists can vouch for a conscience, though they deny it is from God, and has no clue why it is there apart from God.

Church and members disagree on same-sex marriage

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