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Wah! One Third of our Tertiary Student Population are FTs!

yellowarse

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
I prefer to be honest and brutal in telling you this:

1/3 of precious slots should never ever be alloted to people--even if they are Sinkies born and raised here--who we know will be unable to complete their first degrees. I should know because I never applied to study for a first degree knowing that I couldn't even obtain a full GCE Advanced Level certificate on my own effort. My highest qualification to date is a GCE O-level certificate. (It's a different story if I were the son of Old Fart. I'd be awarded President Scholarship even if I were a moron.)

Hence I totally agree that 1/3 of precious slots should be awarded to deserving people, whatever their citizenship status.

We're not talking about setting standards so low that undeserving morons get into unis. We're talking about situation where we have the lowest university enrolment per capita in the developed world, and many bright and deserving students are denied a place in our local unis. If they have money, they go abroad. No money, they forego uni education or go into heavy debt to finance an overseas degree. Either way, they are a major source of brain drain from our nation.

Korea has 300+ unis for a pop. of 50 million. Taiwan has 150 unis for 23 mil people. We have only 4 unis for 5.5 mil - and we give 1/3 to foreigners, and give them full scholarships in the bargain?
 

JohnTan

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
Ah, many NUS and NTU 'rejects' actually get admitted to the Ivy League and top tier unis in the UK, Australia, and Canada. You tell me they don't deserve to get into our local unis?

If they have what it takes to make it to the Ivy League colleges in USA, they would also qualify to get into our local universities.

The requirements to enter the top tier universities in Australia are much lower than for NUS, NTU and SMU. Naturally, those who can't hack it in our education system may wish to apply to study in Australia.
 

yellowarse

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
If they have what it takes to make it to the Ivy League colleges in USA, they would also qualify to get into our local universities.

That's where you're wrong. I know friends' kids who were rejected by NUS and NTU in the popular courses (medicine, law) but got into Oxbridge, red brick UK unis and Ivy League.

It is a stretch of imagination to think that our stds are so much higher than these esteemed unis. Truth of matter is: not enough places, and quotas set aside for foreign students so as to climb the league tables.
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
We're not talking about setting standards so low that undeserving morons get into unis. We're talking about situation where we have the lowest university enrolment per capita in the developed world, and many bright and deserving students are denied a place in our local unis. If they have money, they go abroad. No money, they forego uni education or go into heavy debt to finance an overseas degree. Either way, they are a major source of brain drain from our nation.

Korea has 300+ unis for a pop. of 50 million. Taiwan has 150 unis for 23 mil people. We have only 4 unis for 5.5 mil - and we give 1/3 to foreigners, and give them full scholarships in the bargain?

Actually the whole tertiary education system in singapore is fucked up since long ago by Goh Keng Swee and Old Fart. Some how, they decided that only the top elitist kids can go to university in singapore, and hence severely restricted the number of available students. For many years there were only 2 unis, U of Singapore/NUS and Nantah. Then that became one uni only NUS. Unlike other countries like the US, where an university education is available to anyone who qualifies regardless of financial means or social status, or in other Asian Tigers where a university education for as many of its citizens was seen as an integral part of nation building, only in singapore was it available to the top 5% of all students. In some Asian economies, the percentage of a primary one cohort going on to university is over 30%. Many bad things happened from the minds of these 2 assholes when it came to the tertiary education system.

1) It forced many good and eligible students to seek studies overseas. These were students who could some how get into Stanford, Cambridge, and other lesser overseas unis but could not get into the NUS due to 2nd language failure, or due to no space, or due to not getting the faculty they wanted, etc. These students thru the decades have spend collectively Billions $ on the economies of other countries. By opening more unis, the PAP could have saved many of these students from going overseas, and keep the money within our own economy.

2) Once these students study overseas, they have no interest in coming back. 2 of my friends married foreign women when they were studying overseas, women, they met in their unis. These students do no want to come back to singapore or will make efforts to leave singapore as soon as they can. Hence this contributes to the brain drain.

3) Because the one sole uni, NUS, can only graduate so many engineers, and doctors, etc. we have the chronic shortages that we have today. The PAP now says we don't have enough qualified people so we must import them as FTs from other countries. But they are the ones that caused the shortage of qualified people in the first place. Therefore, the idiotic tertiary education policies of the pass have now brought us to the immigration and FT importation of today. This is a govt that is hardly worth their salaries.

4) The lack of several good universities has resulted in the abject failure of the tech industry in singapore. All tech industries need good universities surrounding it develop R & D, and for creativity and other purposes. Silicon Valley has Stanford and Cal Berkeley. Boston has MIT and others, Singapore has shit NUS. How to become a player in the world tech market. Taiwan has developed some world famous companies like Acer, Korea has Samsung, Singapore has what? Creative Labs? that's about to go under.

Too belatedly, the PAP have opened up a couple more unis, but these are not geared to benefit the local population. Rather its to fit into the aim of developing singapore as an "education hub" . These are just money making unis geared for the foreign students. The PAP has really fuck this one up.
 

yellowarse

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Too belatedly, the PAP have opened up a couple more unis, but these are not geared to benefit the local population. Rather its to fit into the aim of developing singapore as an "education hub" . These are just money making unis geared for the foreign students. The PAP has really fuck this one up.

Good points. I'll say a bit about a couple:

1. Lack of foresight in planning for for manpower needs to cope with pop increase - e.g. in the health sector. Back in '80s alarm bells were being sounded about the need to increase the no of doctors graduating every yeat. No action taken. When the floidgates were opened to foreigners in late '90s hospitals and polyclinics were understaffed. That's why doctors and nurses from 3rd World countries had to be imported in droves, driving standards down.

2. Universities as cash cows. For a uni to earn big bucks from foreign students' tuition fees, it must first climb the league rankings and make it to the top 50 at least. An NTU prof told me the reason why NTU had 47% foreign staff and 30% foreign students was to score more points under the diversity criteria in uni ranking surveys, hence gaining a higher position. How then to get more foreign students in the first place when your uni is not well known? Give them full scholarships covering board and lodging and living allowance! 25% of each cohort is now set aside for foreigners on scholarships.

The citizens suffer from all this fucked-up planning and management of our tertiary education system, and the nation as a whole suffers from brain drain as many of our brightest study abroad and choose not to come home.
 

Hans168

Alfrescian
Loyal
It means one-third of Sinkies may have gone to India to receive their tertiary education.

Or it could mean that one-third of Sinkies lost out to FTs because the former aren't clever enough.

Whatever the reasons may be, I'd prefer that two-thirds of our tertiary student population are foreign. Why? 70% of Sinkies are daft.

one third of our cabinet shud now be FTs..................why isn't it the case, since they are sooooooooooo goooood??
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
Good points. I'll say a bit about a couple:

1. Lack of foresight in planning for for manpower needs to cope with pop increase - e.g. in the health sector. Back in '80s alarm bells were being sounded about the need to increase the no of doctors graduating every yeat. No action taken. When the floidgates were opened to foreigners in late '90s hospitals and polyclinics were understaffed. That's why doctors and nurses from 3rd World countries had to be imported in droves, driving standards down.

2. Universities as cash cows. For a uni to earn big bucks from foreign students' tuition fees, it must first climb the league rankings and make it to the top 50 at least. An NTU prof told me the reason why NTU had 47% foreign staff and 30% foreign students was to score more points under the diversity criteria in uni ranking surveys, hence gaining a higher position. How then to get more foreign students in the first place when your uni is not well known? Give them full scholarships covering board and lodging and living allowance! 25% of each cohort is now set aside for foreigners on scholarships.

The citizens suffer from all this fucked-up planning and management of our tertiary education system, and the nation as a whole suffers from brain drain as many of our brightest study abroad and choose not to come home.


You don't even have to look at doctors. Just look at Nurses is enough. For decades, the School of Nursing and now polys are running 3 year Nursing Diploma courses. These nursing diplomas are not recognized anywhere in the western world. If you want to be a nurse in UK, US, Canada, Australia, etc. you must have a Bachelor Degree from a 4 year university course. In other words a BSN (Bachelor of Science in Nursing). Its criminal that SON or NUS have not introduced a 4 year degree program compatible with the western countries. I mean if you say that a NUS Law degree is compatible in the UK, and a NUS engineering degree is recognized in the US, how come we don't have a Nursing degree recognized outside of Singapore?

On the topic of Unis as cash cows, that is precisely one of the reasons that the PAP did not want to have more unis for locals. Unis cost money to opearate. Especially unis devoted to the local population. These unis tend to heavily subsidized, and are lost leaders to the PAP. They cost money and also are breeding ground for civic minded students who might create unrest and student agitation for more liberty and freedoms. The money minded PAP does not want to pay subsidized tuition for SInkies, so hence only one uni.
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
one third of our cabinet shud now be FTs..................why isn't it the case, since they are sooooooooooo goooood??

One third of our cabinets are FTs!! Penang Cow is from Penang. And got knows how many more are from malaysia. Especially MPs. Isn't one of those female MPs from Malaysia too? Now adays when you go and check the CV of the cabinet ministers, it never reveals where they are born. Strange, no? The CV of any of Obama's cabinet will not only reveal the city and state they were born, but also the exact date, and which high school and uni they went too. PAP very transparent?
 

yellowarse

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
On the topic of Unis as cash cows, that is precisely one of the reasons that the PAP did not want to have more unis for locals. Unis cost money to opearate. Especially unis devoted to the local population. These unis tend to heavily subsidized, and are lost leaders to the PAP. They cost money and also are breeding ground for civic minded students who might create unrest and student agitation for more liberty and freedoms. The money minded PAP does not want to pay subsidized tuition for SInkies, so hence only one uni.

Another reason why there are so few unis stems from old fart's belief that more grads = higher wages. The guiding principle for the PAP since Independence has been to create a compliant working class to keep wages low to attract MNCs to set up HQ and manufacturing facilitues here. Hence the deliberate cap on building and running unis here.

Instead they keep emphasizing the importance of polytechnics here. Irony is that wheareas in Germany and Switzerland a polytechnic grad is equivalent to a uni grad but with fast track into industry, here a poly diploma is seen as a 2nd class tertiary qualification. So we end up screwing up both our uni and poly education.

Not just nurses, but to this day there are no degree courses in our unis for allied health professionals like physiotherapists, occupational therapists, radiographers and optometrists. How do you create a world class medical hub when you are only interested in pressing down wages by artificially limiting the training and qualifications of key healthcare personnel? In Ametica, nurse specialists with PhD and master's degrees are already taking over the more routine functions of physicians, leaving doctors to the more demanding tasks.
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
Another reason why there are so few unis stems from old fart's belief that more grads = higher wages. The guiding principle for the PAP since Independence has been to create a compliant working class to keep wages low to attract MNCs to set up HQ and manufacturing facilitues here. Hence the deliberate cap on building and running unis here.

Instead they keep emphasizing the importance of polytechnics here. Irony is that wheareas in Germany and Switzerland a polytechnic grad is equivalent to a uni grad but with fast track into industry, here a poly diploma is seen as a 2nd class tertiary qualification. So we end up screwing up both our uni and poly education.

Not just nurses, but to this day there are no degree courses in our unis for allied health professionals like physiotherapists, occupational therapists, radiographers and optometrists. How do you create a world class medical hub when you are only interested in pressing down wages by artificially limiting the training and qualifications of key healthcare personnel? In Ametica, nurse specialists with PhD and master's degrees are already taking over the more routine functions of physicians, leaving doctors to the more demanding tasks.

This is true, but stupid sinkies don't understand this. The PAP wants to create the regional medical hub here in singapore, and they keep saying how the medical standard here is the highest in the region. What they don't understand is that most of these health care professsionals working here cannot work anywhere in the western world. Those China, Pinoy, Myanmar, Mongolian nurses you see here, are not even fit to clean the toilet in a US hospital. Yet they are treating singapore patients. Stupid Sinkies don't realize they are actually in a third world health care system.
 

frenchbriefs

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
anyone realise how big of a threat this is and clear and present danger to the national security and survival of true blue sinkies?even though the ratio of local uni students outnumber foreigner student 7 to 3...however that 70 percent uni students represents only a tiny percentage of our total sinkie student population that is eligible for uni age.i believe less than 17 percent of local sinkies students are able to go to university.and as our birth rate declines,the number of sinkie graduates start to decline and deterioriate.

on the other hand,PAP is using 30 percent of the available seats in our university campuses to build a significant army of super smart foreign uni graduates that will one day become the overlords and masters and bosses and managers of the local sinkie population.and this army will be loyal and obediant to the PAP regime only since they are groomed to be the country's future elites and aristocracy.

one day the oppressed and downtrodden sinkies will turn their faces and look up to the skies and ask "APA LAGI FOREIGNER BABI MAHU????they take our jobs,they take our university slots,they take our money!!what do the foreigners want???"
 
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