ST Kinetics to make weapons overseas, more lay offs coming.

Papsmearer said:

Apparently from what I have read, they are in the final round of selection for the USMC wheeled AFV contract with their US JV partner. The main problem that I see is that the USMC is going to ask them the following question : " If your wheeled Terrex is so good, why did you not buy it to replace your Cadillac gage V200 wheeled AFVs, instead you bought the Renault Higuard MRAP".

That would be the tough sell. If they don't even use their own products, why would they expect other countries to?

Click to expand...

USMC set a number of demands they expect from the replacement vehicle, one the main issue is crew protection against IED and mines. Like u said, saf opted to buy the frog vehicle already can see saf has no confidence of the terrex against IED and mines.

It very difficult to win USMC contracts as being US govt rapid reaction force, their mission required their equipments to handle specialize situation. Currently USMC is only getting a cheap fix to replace the aging AAVP7 as the expeditionary fighting vehicle cost too much. Since USMC already have the LAV25 wheeled Reece vehicle, then why want to buy another wheeled terrex?

I wonder did the terrex ever been put out to sea by the saf 10km from shore in the sea in full combat load? Able to 10miles an hour in reservoir is not the same in real sea condition. The bionix also claimed to able to swim but if u ask around current AI battalion commanders, less than 20% ever experience "swimming" on the bionix because many time the bionix was banned from actual floatations exercise because water leakage during flotation test inside camp.

sleaguepunter said:

USMC set a number of demands they expect from the replacement vehicle, one the main issue is crew protection against IED and mines. Like u said, saf opted to buy the frog vehicle already can see saf has no confidence of the terrex against IED and mines.

It very difficult to win USMC contracts as being US govt rapid reaction force, their mission required their equipments to handle specialize situation. Currently USMC is only getting a cheap fix to replace the aging AAVP7 as the expeditionary fighting vehicle cost too much. Since USMC already have the LAV25 wheeled Reece vehicle, then why want to buy another wheeled terrex?

I wonder did the terrex ever been put out to sea by the saf 10km from shore in the sea in full combat load? Able to 10miles an hour in reservoir is not the same in real sea condition. The bionix also claimed to able to swim but if u ask around current AI battalion commanders, less than 20% ever experience "swimming" on the bionix because many time the bionix was banned from actual floatations exercise because water leakage during flotation test inside camp.

Click to expand...

ST send the fully amphibious version of the Terrex, I think they call it Terrex 2 for the USMC trials, and by all reports it did well in the swim portion. Likely, USMC doctrine does not emphasize a 10km swim from offshore onto the beach not when they have the LCACs to bring them in faster. Their AAVPs are really old and likely the Terrex and other new generation amphibious IFV are much improved. The same for their LAV25, which are over 30 years old. The Terrex has the ability to tie in with all the other battlefield units with its computerized battlefiled management system.

We have to remember that the Terrex was actually designed by Timoney of Ireland in which ST has a controlling share. Timoney is a fairly reputable company. but the issue remains that the company itself (ST) is not considered a heavy weight in the weapons business.

Leckmichamarsch said:

fucktard never understand that CIS was set up to meet local defence needs....... period
wear a bigger hat there will be a mis match in the world arena

Click to expand...

You are 100% right. Originally, conceived to develop local knowledge and technology to develop weapons for the SAF, now, its entire direction is not clear at all.

In the old days under SAE, they would get wrecks like AMX-13 from all over the world and refurbish them for the SAF. Also upgrades on M113, and licensed manufacturing for the M-16, GPMG, etc. These are within our abilities and also needed equipment for the SAF. The thing started to go off track with the Bionix program. The original premise is good. i.e. replace the M113 and save some money by developing our own APC, and at the same time use the chassis/engine combo for the new light tank to replace the AMX-13. The Bionix was fucked up six ways to sunday. It was too narrow and too high. It was so narrow, it could not take a turret with a low recoil gun in the 105mm/120mm range. In addition, it was sitting too high. they could have developed a wheeled version of it, like the French AMX-10 has a wheeled and tracked version, and failure to do so is another egg in their face. With a properly designed Bionix, they could have replaced:

1200 M113
450-500 AMX-13
250-300 Cadillac V200/V100
plus hundreds self propelled guns, motorised mortar, tracked ambulances and command vehicles based on the same chassis.

That is at least 2000 vehicles that could have been replaced with one well designed Bionix. That makes the production run worthwhile and economically feasible.

Instead, we have:

1200 M113 - replaced by 600 Bionix 1 and maybe 300-400 Bionix 2
450-500 AMX-13 replaced by about 182 Leopard 2s
250-300 Cadillac V200 replaced by 40 Renault MRAP Higuard, maybe more on order Plus another 135 Terrex.

many of these vehicles were neither asked for nor required by the SAF. The SAF has always been a user of tracked APC, the token buy of 135 Terrex was just to boost export prospects for it. They don't have an operational requirement for it as far as I can see. The buy of Leo 2 was because of the failure to develop a light tank based on the Bionix chassis. If you think its a replacement for the AMX-13, you are dreaming. Its like replacing a Kia Rio with a Merc S class can calling it an equivalent replacement. LArge 70 ton MBTs operating in SE Asia is not in anyone's doctrine. they will be road bound and unlike in Iraq or Astan, there is no offroading they can do, unless they intend to plough thru hectares of palm and rubber plantations. As for the Higuard, that is a big mystery to me why they even order this, unless kopi money was exchange under the table.

What the oppo need is a defence critic to ask these questions. The Defence budget is by far the largest of all budgets among the ministries. For them to get a free pass with no questions ask is obscenely ridiculous.

Papsmearer said:

You are 100% right. Originally, conceived to develop local knowledge and technology to develop weapons for the SAF, now, its entire direction is not clear at all.

In the old days under SAE, they would get wrecks like AMX-13 from all over the worlCTd and refurbish them for the SAF. Also upgrades on M113, and licensed manufacturing for the M-16, GPMG, etc. These are within our abilities and also needed equipment for the SAF. The thing started to go off track with the Bionix program. The original premise is good. i.e. replace the M113 and save some money by developing our own APC, and at the same time use the chassis/engine combo for the new light tank to replace the AMX-13. The Bionix was fucked up six ways to sunday. budgets among the ministries. For them to get a free pass with no questions ask is obscenely ridiculous.

Click to expand...

it started with a fresh engineer from CIS named Fong Siak Hay out to make a name for himself by pushing for Bionix in SAE............ cut, copy & modify
He got his promotions, so did his entire direct reports incl Richard Kwok the present who was responsible for bring on stream many products but none sell...!! Shame shame shame!!

http://www.baesystems.com/en/article/new-bvs10-beowulf-all-terrain-vehicle---poetry-in-motion

ST will never beat this!!!

Mr Patrick Choy, ST Kinetics' executive vice-president,

Another ex-SAF general.

CABcommander said:

Mr Patrick Choy, ST Kinetics' executive vice-president,

Another ex-SAF general.

Click to expand...

Yes, he was Chief of Armour and then 4 SAB commander at Colonel rank, and later Div. COmmander and retired with BG rank. When I was in armour, he was only a Major at 41 SAR. But he was up and coming star. I think he succeeded Colin Thesiera as COA. Its interesting to note for those interested in such things that when he made BG in 1990, he was the youngest BG (I think he was only 44 years old, I believe). At that time, there were only 8 generals in all of SAF, with non retired (not even WInston Choo was retired yet). Now, there are over 100 active and retired Generals and their equivalent admiral rank in the Navy. And Between 1990 and now, a 25 year span, the number of NSmen in service have shrunked drastically due to a declining population birth rate. Smaller army = 10 times more Generals to command them? PAP logic?

ANyway, they have him peddling our crap armour to other countries. How can someone who is a BG, but never commanded any armour force in combat, nor himself fired a shot in anger, convinced a prospective customer that the Terrex or any ST Product is the right one? Beats me.

Hans168 said:

it started with a fresh engineer from CIS named Fong Siak Hay out to make a name for himself by pushing for Bionix in SAE............ cut, copy & modify
He got his promotions, so did his entire direct reports incl Richard Kwok the present who was responsible for bring on stream many products but none sell...!! Shame shame shame!!

Click to expand...

Isn't he an adjunct Prof at NTU now? What course is he teaching there? "How to take a perfectly good company and fuck it up?"

Papsmearer said:

Isn't he an adjunct Prof at NTU now? What course is he teaching there? "How to take a perfectly good company and fuck it up?"

Click to expand...

Fong & CTO Richard Kwok are both adjunct prof in NTU thru Kwok's connection ( Fong was hsi boss then & Kwok needed to carry balls an art he has excelled...). CTO ST Engrg Kwok is also adjunct prof in STUD although his PhD gotten thru cheap ass distant learning has nothing to do with engineering or design - it was on Program Mgmt of A Fighting Vehicle - a portfolio responsible by a collegue Mgr-to-VP Toh Beng Koon in S T K days. So beats me how he got his PhD & what are his real qualifications in lecturing engineering or design?? Even as VP in charge the armouring of Bionix & Bronco were solely done by FU Deisenrot - his nazi godfather (who ran road to escape prosecution by Germany Tax Office leaving Kwok flabbergasted) !!
Above explains the impending fall of STK due to lack of products and fucked ups!!

Papsmearer said:

Isn't he an adjunct Prof at NTU now? What course is he teaching there? "How to take a perfectly good company and fuck it up?"

Click to expand...

you got that right!!

CABcommander said:

Mr Patrick Choy, ST Kinetics' executive vice-president,

Another ex-SAF general.

Click to expand...

a rare person who got NO degree but rose to the near apex & when has to use jungle survival tactics to keep his job by exporting work badly needed by sg economy........he justified the move by saying we "dun make steel..."
What the fuck do we make? Even whores we dun make as they come from PRC, Malaysia, Indon, Vietcunt, Pinay... so does it mean we ought to do nothing here Why not import ST mgmt staff They are a lot cheaper & better from PRC or ModiLand!!!!!!!!!! Land of PeeNoise lagi cheaper!

Hans168 said:

a rare person who got NO degree but rose to the near apex & when has to use jungle survival tactics to keep his job by exporting work badly needed by sg economy........he justified the move by saying we "dun make steel..."
What the fuck do we make? Even whores we dun make as they come from PRC, Malaysia, Indon, Vietcunt, Pinay... so does it mean we ought to do nothing here Why not import ST mgmt staff They are a lot cheaper & better from PRC or ModiLand!!!!!!!!!! Land of PeeNoise lagi cheaper!

Click to expand...

Patrick Choy not the sharpest tool in the shed, probably inhaled too much 75mm gun fumes. Since we don't make steel here, we might as well close down all our shipyards, and oil rig building companies. How about our petrochemical plants, we should close them too since we dun pump oil.

Papsmearer said:

Patrick Choy not the sharpest tool in the shed, probably inhaled too much 75mm gun fumes. Since we don't make steel here, we might as well close down all our shipyards, and oil rig building companies. How about our petrochemical plants, we should close them too since we dun pump oil.

Click to expand...

With EVP Patrick Choy & CTO Dr Richard Kwok............ ST K sure mati kuat kuat!!AH
BUT like Temasek they still earn their super fat salaries & bonuses and frerquent flyer mileages!! HUAT AH

Why productivity so bad? What economy downhill? Why recession???????????? We know the answers but nobody is taking actions!!

Hans168 said:

With EVP Patrick Choy & CTO Dr Richard Kwok............ ST K sure mati kuat kuat!!AH
BUT like Temasek they still earn their super fat salaries & bonuses and frerquent flyer mileages!! HUAT AH

Why productivity so bad? What economy downhill? Why recession???????????? We know the answers but nobody is taking actions!!

Click to expand...

Their incompetence level is just following the example set by their previous CEO Whore Jinx under the then company Chartered Industries. After all the smaller independent contractors like LASS, SAE, etc got folded into the ST companies, it was all downhill.

Papsmearer said:

Their incompetence level is just following the example set by their previous CEO Whore Jinx under the then company Chartered Industries. After all the smaller independent contractors like LASS, SAE, etc got folded into the ST companies, it was all downhill.

Click to expand...

ST is now dumping ground, play ground n golden car park for SAF generals

Leckmichamarsch said:

ST is now dumping ground, play ground n golden car park for SAF generals

Click to expand...

Yup, same for DSTA. More and more new agencies and current agencies are being used to park their generals. There are substantially over 200 generals waiting for placements. Singapore has turned into a Military Junta, where the military are in charge of all significant ministeries and stat boards.

Papsmearer said:

Yup, same for DSTA. More and more new agencies and current agencies are being used to park their generals. There are substantially over 200 generals waiting for placements. Singapore has turned into a Military Junta, where the military are in charge of all significant ministeries and stat boards.

Click to expand...

And i think it is a problem they created themselves. They created the scholar express lane. More and more scholars means they demand a certain level. So when they write papers for new initiatives, they push up the rank requirement. More senior officers to take care of and since they all leave at 40+ to 50, they have to take care 15 to 20 years. The problem compounds.

Cerebral said:

And i think it is a problem they created themselves. They created the scholar express lane. More and more scholars means they demand a certain level. So when they write papers for new initiatives, they push up the rank requirement. More senior officers to take care of and since they all leave at 40+ to 50, they have to take care 15 to 20 years. The problem compounds.

Click to expand...

If these people are so talented, they should have been left untouched by the PAP and instead allowed to go into the private industry to run MNCs, banks, and start their own corporations to benefit the economy and the country. Instead, they are being put in positions to fail. Case in point is Desmond Kuek being put in place to run SMRT. He has no business doing that job. SAme for Admiral Lewd Fuck You, putting into the transport minister portfolio.

What is happening is that the PAP is transforming singapore into a military junta with the SAF scholar scheme. In fact, this is a PAP recruitment ground. Instead of developing its own grass root leaders, and party members from within to take over as MPs and Ministers, the PAP is simply using taxpayer money to develop and pay their next generation leaders and parachuting them into political office. Non of these fucks are interested in becoming PAP poiliticians until the PAP offers to pay for their full scholarship to an overseas unis, then give them a cushy SAF job with guaranteed promotions to General, followed by the golden parachute into politics. I give u, you don't want?

In other countries, retired generals retire around 60 or older, having served in at least two major combat zones. They become 1) military advisers in think tanks 2) military consultants to private security firms 3) run for Congresss or sit in the House of Lords 4) sin on boards of corporations. All done by themselves, not via bonds.

Papsmearer said:

Yup, same for DSTA. More and more new agencies and current agencies are being used to park their generals. There are substantially over 200 generals waiting for placements. Singapore has turned into a Military Junta, where the military are in charge of all significant ministeries and stat boards.

Click to expand...

got frens who worked in ST subsidiaries under Col Ass or Col Donk........... all they know is shouting orders here n there
dat my doggie oso can do!