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Million $ Ministers Shanmugam paid to say "Only so much" I can do about Haze.

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
SINGAPORE - There is "only so much" Singapore can do to prevent the haze from recurring, Minister for Foreign Affairs K Shanmugam said on Sunday. In a Facebook post, Mr Shanmugam acknowledged that Singaporeans' frustrations with the yearly recurrence of the haze was amplified because it was a problem that could be prevented."The frustration of our people is all the greater because the haze can be prevented. The majority of the fires are man-made, by companies seeking to profit while people pay the costs."Mr Shanmugam highlighted that Singapore had taken various efforts to combat the haze: "We have offered assistance to help fight the fires (including this year, but our offer has yet to be accepted). We passed a bill in August 2014 that would allow us to prosecute errant companies found to be causing or contributing to the haze. We have asked Indonesia to give us the names of the companies so that we can consider if we can take action against them."However, he said that Singapore's ability to stop the fires was limited as they are occurring in another country.Mr Shanmugam stressed that Indonesia also had a responsibility to take legal and enforcement action against errant companies which violated Indonesia's own laws.He described as "positive steps" the Indonesian government's actions to declare a state deploy troops and assets to deal with the haze, and prosecute companies.In his post, Mr Shanmugam, who is also Law Minister, pointed out that the pollution affected not only Singaporeans, but also Indonesians closest to the fires in Sumatra and Kalimantan who were the worst affected.

He said that the haze was not only a health hazard which especially affected the young, the elderly and those with chronic lung and heart conditions, but also affected regional economies."The 1997 haze cost Southeast Asia an estimated US$9 billion (S$12.6 billion). The potential loss to Riau's economy this year has been estimated at around eight per cent of the province's GDP - some Rp20 trillion (S$1.8 billion)."Mr Shanmugam revealed that he had expressed "deep concern" while speaking with Indonesian foreign minister Retno Marsudi on Friday, while emphasising that a longer-term solution was necessary.He said that there had been no concrete progress thus far despite Singapore's efforts to raise the issue at ASEAN, the United Nations and other fora and suggest ways for regional countries to co-operate.He concluded that "a lasting solution is needed. Our people expect that. And understandly so".
 
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JHolmesJr

Alfrescian
Loyal
We have asked Indonesia to give us the names of the companies so that we can consider if we can take action against them.

Cant get our US allies to fly a satellite over the area and take pictures of company representatives in the area….can't tail them and find out where they work…how many fuckin palm oil companies are there? Millions?

Can't figure out where there assets are? Can't freeze their monies and sue them (can only sue dumb ass civilian activists)….can't shame them in front of the international community…..lot of can'ts.
 

congo9

Alfrescian
Loyal
LHL says Lion in AHPETC but tikus (or mouse) in Indonesia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! sr Cuntsel!! Bah

So brave in AHPETC, but a cat dealing with INdonesia. Whats the use of spending billion and billion on SAF weaponary. All i can know is that if defence budget is cut up for social spending, a lot of SAF retired solders will be out of job.

All these bullshit about defence , like Malaysia and Indonesia will be bullying us, i have enough. They still send smog all over us all these years. Can you imagine Widodo decide to play pang by sending boat loads of refugee to Singapore port ? You can't kill them , you can't house them. What can you do ?
 

Cerebral

Alfrescian (InfP) [Comp]
Generous Asset
It will only cost the govt maybe 20k or so to hire an Indonesian Investigator to find out which companies did it. The question is whether they want to prosecute or not
 

johnny333

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
It will only cost the govt maybe 20k or so to hire an Indonesian Investigator to find out which companies did it. The question is whether they want to prosecute or not

For all anyone knows Temasick may be guilty by association:confused:

Temasick have all sorts of investments & they may own some of the palm oil companies responsible for the haze.
Or maybe the plantation owners owners are very close friends of the "natural aristocrates" of Spore:rolleyes:
 

Scrooball (clone)

Alfrescian
Loyal
That's why the indons deserve to get screwed for the mess the country is in. Their Monopoly money is virtually useless. The politicians are a joke when it comes to graft. The head of the country used to sell furniture. Lol.... I mean the country is as fucked up as it can be.
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
Cant get our US allies to fly a satellite over the area and take pictures of company representatives in the area….can't tail them and find out where they work…how many fuckin palm oil companies are there? Millions?

Can't figure out where there assets are? Can't freeze their monies and sue them (can only sue dumb ass civilian activists)….can't shame them in front of the international community…..lot of can'ts.

One of them is already confirmed sinkie company, Asian Pulp and Paper. Their factories in S'pore, but I donch see Shan got balls to bring them to court. Another is SIme Darby, and again, PAP very quiet on all of this. You ask Greenpeace and they will happily provide you with a list of all the companies clear cutting with forest fires in Indonesia and provide pictures too. What is so fucking difficult?
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
So brave in AHPETC, but a cat dealing with INdonesia. Whats the use of spending billion and billion on SAF weaponary. All i can know is that if defence budget is cut up for social spending, a lot of SAF retired solders will be out of job.

All these bullshit about defence , like Malaysia and Indonesia will be bullying us, i have enough. They still send smog all over us all these years. Can you imagine Widodo decide to play pang by sending boat loads of refugee to Singapore port ? You can't kill them , you can't house them. What can you do ?

This smog from Indonesia is for sure killing sinkies. How many old, people with respiratory problems, etc. have died because of the haze? Its like Indonesia pointed a gun at these people and squeezed the trigger. There is no military threat to singapore. If you wanted to cripple singapore, you send over the haze, or cut their water, or flood the country with hundreds of thousands of your own citizens to breakdown their infrastructure like the MRT, or to steal their jobs and send their money back to your country.
 

Ambulance

Alfrescian
Loyal
halo jit kwan kio or kaki eh kang eh hyaw buay

[video=youtube;6qQGa1lUQi4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qQGa1lUQi4[/video]
 

congo9

Alfrescian
Loyal
One of them is already confirmed sinkie company, Asian Pulp and Paper. Their factories in S'pore, but I donch see Shan got balls to bring them to court. Another is SIme Darby, and again, PAP very quiet on all of this. You ask Greenpeace and they will happily provide you with a list of all the companies clear cutting with forest fires in Indonesia and provide pictures too. What is so fucking difficult?

Simply no balls. What if they move their HQ out ?







It
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
This is a good article by Forbes on the forest fires. It really shows how powerless the PAP is. Many of the fires are apparently peat moss fires which are very hard to extinguish.

Indonesia's Forest Fires Choke Malaysia, Singapore: 'Burning Land....Just for Fun'

Planes can’t land, schools are closed, states of emergency imposed and the Indonesian President Joko Widodo makes a surprise visit to still-smoking South Sumatra. This is the new normal for Southeast Asian summers — choking haze from Indonesian forest fires. Unlike past years, the pall hardly makes a headline in the Hong Kong press. For Singaporeans, Malaysian and Indonesians the inconvenience and ill health are something they have to live with. This year is no exception. The Singapore government has a special website.

Indonesia said Friday (Sept. 11) that it would send 10,000 troops to fight the fires in Sumatra. Singapore’s defense minister the same day said that Indonesia has accepted his country’s offer to provide military aircraft to fight forest fires. Even that offer was shrouded in the smoky air: Indonesian media quoted government officials as saying Indonesia didn’t need any help.

The forest fires are set partly to clear land for palm oil plantations. Innovative efforts are going into tracking down the culprits, who in the past were able to get away with burning forest land for plantations because of the difficulty of figuring exactly what was going on in locations that are far from Jakarta.

Washington, D.C.-based environmental group World Resources Institute (WRI) is using satellites and computers to identify the sites of fire down to one square kilometer in size. Here is a link to WRI’s forest-fire tracking site and WRI’s latest blog on the subject.

The Economist opines that “everybody knows” the forest fires are just set to clear land for plantations, but the picture on the ground is hazier than that. Although almost half of the forest fires take place in large plantation holders’ concessions, conservationist Erik Meijaard argues that the focus on large plantation-holders misses the point. Given that a majority of burning is taking place outside of large concession-holders’ boundaries, sometimes “just for fun,” he says that the government needs to get serious about fire prohibitions and take the total costs of development (whether slash-and-burn agriculture or development of coastal peatlands) into account.

“The key point is that the fire and haze problem in Indonesia is complex, with multiple actors playing a role. Focusing on large concessions alone, which the Indonesian government and also non-government organizations seem to do, is not going to do much to reduce the problem,” writes Meijaard. “Anyone who has ever spent time in Kalimantan or Sumatra during the dry season knows that burning land for agriculture, for hunting, or just for fun is a favorite pastime of many.”

Indonesia still has not ratified the ASEAN trans-boundary haze treaty, though it was signed 12 years ago in the wake of serious fires in 1997 and 1998. The Jakarta Post says that Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa is deflecting blame for the fires, talking about consensus and cooperation with neighbors while Indonesia has been unable to control the repeated fire outbreaks.

This note from a friend who owns a palm oil plantation and has taken numerous measures to implement sustainable palm oil cultivation – details some of the problems.

The palm plantation owner writes:

“What is causing the fires burning on degraded peat forest and unproductive scrubland in the province of Riau, Sumatra? These are the fires that create the haze affecting Singapore, Malaysia and the province of Riau itself.

From my own experience, I can identify several causes of these annually occurring fires each dry season.

• Contractors of palm oil companies who accidentally start fires that quickly get out of control unless management immediately intervenes

• Small holders practicing slash and burn as a cheap way to clear land for planting intentionally burn their own land

• Large plantations with poor Environmental, Health and Safety practices have thousands of employees who may behave in unsafe ways like tossing cigarette butts into dry scrub

Once a fire begins on peat soil it is difficult control.

Solution

How can we avoid these recurring and large scale fires? One way is to

1. Establish a permanent organization that has a work program, budget and the authority to act on behalf of the provincial and central governments

2. This organization would have stakeholder meetings of community leaders, provincial government and businesses to jointly take preemptive measures before every dry season begins

Challenge : Why isn’t this being done?

The provincial government hasn’t got the manpower, equipment or budget to deal with this issue.

The central government is distracted – with what is sees – as “national” issues such as:

• efforts to reduce the systemic corruption

• agricultural policies that have failed to address food security and rising prices of basic staples such as beef, soy bean.

• infrastructure development that has failed to keep pace with requirements for more manufactured exports

• wage confrontation between labor and business

• The common elements required to resolve these challenges are: good policy, strong enforcement and political will power. At this stage, Indonesia’s dysfunctional government is going to focus on the 5 challenges I just mentioned. Not on the haze. So realistically, I think the problem will continue. But…

• Positive: Increasing numbers of the large, established palm oil companies are becoming members of RSPO (Roundtable for Sustainable Palm Oil). Annual audits ensure certification is maintained. There is premium for RSPO certified oil palm – that’s the incentive for doing it. Our own company has its product RSPO certified.

• Notes: The haze and the fires that cause them affect mainly one province out of 33 and is seasonal. The other significant challenges I mention earlier affect the whole nation constantly.”

My summary: the issue of Indonesia’s forest fires, a local problem that has global consequences because of the impact on carbon emissions, needs to be approached both from a bottom-up and a top-down perspective. International NGOs are having an impact by putting pressure on companies such as Unilever and Nestle . WRI’s science-based surveillance will help on-the-ground efforts. Unfortunately, work on the ground in Indonesia is not easy. In a culture where people set fires for food, for money, for hunting and just for fun, it’s hard to change behavior. Indonesia needs regional and local political leadership to simultaneously adopt a zero-tolerance policy to forest fires while at the same time providing more — and more sustainable — economic opportunities.

This is easier said than done. In 2010, Norway promised to provide Indonesian $1 billion to help make this transition to sustainable forestry and agriculture under the Reducing Emissions from Deforestation and Forest Degradation (REDD+) program, but the program failed to meet many of its goals, as this post from the Center of Global Development highlights.

The situation looks like it’s getting worse, at least in parts of Borneo, as we move into mid-September. Malaysia’s Star reported on Sept. 11 that the haze in part of Borneo is so bad that satellite images cannot see fire hotspots. The Star quoted Malaysia’s Natural Resources and Environment Minister Dr Wan Junaidi Tuanku Jaafa a estimating that “four-fifths” of the Indonesian part of Borneo was “under a cloud of smoke”. The paper also quoted the minister as saying that the Malysian portion of the island did not show any evidence of hotspots. Meanwhile, click through to the Borneo Post’s pictures to get a sense of what it’s like to be breathing the “haze”: They make the air in this picture below, of Singapore, look by comparison not quite as bad.

Note: I’m writing this update, on Sept. 15, from Seoul, South Korea. Watching from a distance as the forest fires continue raging through mid-September, as people are dying, I’m struck by Indonesia’s inability to get the situation under control.

President Joko Widjodo made a surprise visit to Sumatra Sept. 6 and has taken personal responsibility for ending the blazes. The situation appears to have worsened since his visit. Yet Indonesia has turned down Singapore’s offer of help and Indonesian Environment and Forestry Minister Siti Nurbaya Baka says it will take up to 3 weeks to put out the fires.

Scientist Henry Purnomo of the Center for International Forestry Research (CIFOR) says forest fires are the worst since 1997. Indonesia endured serious fires again in 2013. The message is that the Indonesian government is unwilling or unable to take meaningful steps to solve this problem. Henry notes that it costs $7 a hectare to clear land by burning versus $150 for mechanized clearing, so there’s no short-term economic argument that would suggest burning can be stopped.

Yes, it is tough to know who is responsible for the fires. Paper and pulp companies like giant Asia Pulp and Paper say that the fires are a problem for them, too.

What’s clear is that the current approach isn’t working. We’re two decades into a cycle of serious fires.These fires are killing people. The blazes are destroying forests that are the lungs of the world. The fires are exposing Indonesia’s lack of effective governance. They are showing how even the wealthiest city-states are not really islands — even one as competent as Singapore, which has proven itself largely powerless to protect its own citizens’ health against its neighbor’s forest fires. It is time to get serious with solutions that are bottom-up as well as top-down. We can’t afford to wait another two decades for real action.

Mark Clifford is the author of The Greening of Asia: The Business Case for Solving Asia’s Environmental Emergency (Columbia University Press 2015).

http://www.forbes.com/sites/mcliffo...malaysia-singapore-burning-land-just-for-fun/
 

steffychun

Alfrescian
Loyal
SINGAPORE - There is "only so much" Singapore can do to prevent the haze from recurring, Minister for Foreign Affairs K Shanmugam said on Sunday. In a Facebook post, Mr Shanmugam acknowledged that Singaporeans' frustrations with the yearly recurrence of the haze was amplified because it was a problem that could be prevented."The frustration of our people is all the greater because the haze can be prevented. The majority of the fires are man-made, by companies seeking to profit while people pay the costs."Mr Shanmugam highlighted that Singapore had taken various efforts to combat the haze: "We have offered assistance to help fight the fires (including this year, but our offer has yet to be accepted). We passed a bill in August 2014 that would allow us to prosecute errant companies found to be causing or contributing to the haze. We have asked Indonesia to give us the names of the companies so that we can consider if we can take action against them."However, he said that Singapore's ability to stop the fires was limited as they are occurring in another country.Mr Shanmugam stressed that Indonesia also had a responsibility to take legal and enforcement action against errant companies which violated Indonesia's own laws.He described as "positive steps" the Indonesian government's actions to declare a state deploy troops and assets to deal with the haze, and prosecute companies.In his post, Mr Shanmugam, who is also Law Minister, pointed out that the pollution affected not only Singaporeans, but also Indonesians closest to the fires in Sumatra and Kalimantan who were the worst affected.

He said that the haze was not only a health hazard which especially affected the young, the elderly and those with chronic lung and heart conditions, but also affected regional economies."The 1997 haze cost Southeast Asia an estimated US$9 billion (S$12.6 billion). The potential loss to Riau's economy this year has been estimated at around eight per cent of the province's GDP - some Rp20 trillion (S$1.8 billion)."Mr Shanmugam revealed that he had expressed "deep concern" while speaking with Indonesian foreign minister Retno Marsudi on Friday, while emphasising that a longer-term solution was necessary.He said that there had been no concrete progress thus far despite Singapore's efforts to raise the issue at ASEAN, the United Nations and other fora and suggest ways for regional countries to co-operate.He concluded that "a lasting solution is needed. Our people expect that. And understandly so".

Their same old excuse 50 years ago and will be for the future.
 
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