Minimum wage for ALL foreign workers

Fully support min wage to protect maids and such fm vile singos and their penny pinching arrogance.

frenchbriefs said:

first off whats the purpose of having a minimum wage?for humanitarian reasons and human rights that no one in your country should be exploited and to respect everyone in your country for their labour and contributions,that includes the elderly,the handicapped or even children or teenagers.if u find ways to exclude certain subsets or races or nationality then whats the point?it defeats the entire morality of the exercise and shows ur mentality as a first world nation.

secondly,the way minimum wage only works is if nobody in the country is excluded,if u start excluding certain subsets of people from minimum wage,sooner or later people will start clamouring to hire more of these people and using them to perform other duties cause everyone loves cheaper better faster.assuming ur a singaporean auntie and u decide u want to become a housekeeper or a babysitter cause now theres minimum wage of 10/hr for all sinkies,but who the hell would want to hire u when they can hire a pinoy or indonesian for much much less?in the end all those receiving minimum wage would suffer.

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Finally! Someone who gets what I have been trying to say. Frenchbriefs you da man! Oh well, I can tell you that there are MANY Singaporeans out there who think like prancku. In fact I would say they are the majority. Even staunch so called "opposition supporters" will also think like prancku.

Basically whatever suits their preference and convenience. Who really cares about the other person? all they care about is themselves. Which is what the PAP has been playing to all these years. The people deserve the PAP because that is EXACTLY what they want. Even those "opposition supporters" don't realize this. Sorry I am no PAP supporter but I got fed up listening to Singaporeans talking big when they didn't realize what they were asking for is not what they really want. No point "fighting" for Singaporeans because what they want is free labor in every household, company and business. If you offer it, people will take. No one in Singapore will agree to pay their plumber $70/hr. Or the guy who comes to assemble IKEA furniture $50/hr for doing so. All will kpkb why so expensive and what not.

For the record, people in first world countries tend to DIY. They go to big hardware stores to buy parts and fix the problem themselves. Only if they cannot fix or it is a big job or they can easily afford it, then they call the tradespeople. The DIY market is huge in first world countries. IKEA around the world prides on having easily assembled furniture that people can DIY. So it isn't true that everyone will have to pay more. But Singaporeans have been spoilt for so many years, who knows whether they will be able to change their habits.

A lot has been said about how cheap foreign labor suppresses wages of locals. How certain jobs like construction work, plumber, electrician, tradeswork, cleaning work pays so low that no Singaporean can afford to take the jobs. These people clamor for a minimum wage. Raise the wages and more Singaporeans can take the jobs. Companies and businessmen should pay more. The PAP says these business people have spoken and say they cannot afford minimum wage and will close their businesses. The people scorn at these claims. Now I asked such people whether they had a maid at home. Many said yes. I asked them if the maid was a foreign worker? This is where they would start to get silent. I would then go on that in a very sizable number of Singapore households you would find foreign workers as well. Paid very very little to be live in caregivers. They do simple things like clean the toilets, tidy the house, cook meals, wash clothes, iron clothes, wash the car/s. And they are paid so little. Why not minimum wage for them too? and then all of a sudden these very people who clamor for minimum wage from companies will give the EXACT same excuses for not paying their maids more. They would start to say maids are a necessity. If I say maybe if we started paying maids $2500 a month, more Singaporeans would be willing to do the job. They would reply "no lah, no Singaporean would want to be maid lah". Well the PAP govt says no Singaporean wants to be a construction worker anyway even if you paid more. So this is why I realized deep down Singaporeans don't want a first world country. It is easy to ask others to make sacrifices for you, pay more to help workers but when it is yourself who has to pay, many Singaporeans would rather kpkb. I cannot speak for CSJ but I feel that he is wasting his talents. Singaporeans might prove me wrong and every election I hope that they do, but they don't. And then I remember why.

nayr69sg said:

This is where they would start to get silent. I would then go on that in a very sizable number of Singapore households you would find foreign workers as well. Paid very very little to be live in caregivers. They do simple things like clean the toilets, tidy the house, cook meals, wash clothes, iron clothes, wash the car/s. And they are paid so little. Why not minimum wage for them too? and then all of a sudden these very people who clamor for minimum wage from companies will give the EXACT same excuses for not paying their maids more. They would start to say maids are a necessity. If I say maybe if we started paying maids $2500 a month, more Singaporeans would be willing to do the job. They would reply "no lah, no Singaporean would want to be maid lah". Well the PAP govt says no Singaporean wants to be a construction worker anyway even if you paid more. .

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Why should foreign maids be included in minimum wage when they are doing domestic work and not commercial related work?. It is just the Singapore work practice to pay them a salary of S$350 - $600 or so which is much much more than what they will ever get in their own countries, be it India, Philippines, Myanmar or Indonesia.

If you pay foreign maids the same rate as Singapore workers when why not businesses also pay the same rate for their sand, paper, cement, that is, raw materials from Indonesia as that from say a more expensive source? All purchasing managers will not need to bother to source overseas and very soon will be out of jobs.

The answer is simple, lower costs.

Of course, you can say, maids are human beings, not raw materials. Yes, but then if maids are currently being paid only $450, do you want to increase your costs immediately by 10 times? Can everyone afford it?

Don't forget, the law now specifically did not include foreign maids under Part IV of the Employment Act.

u are right,singaporeans deserve the PAP because thats what they want,everything that happens in this country,from the elderly pushing carts full of dishes and collecting cardboard,happened not because of PAP made it so but because sinkies want it that way.sinkies see everything in a myopic everything me first point of view,even down to CPF issues where they believe whats mine is mine,rather then it being a pooled collective resource,a safety blanket a pension fund for everyone,we blame goh chok tong for not achieving the swiss standard of living but the thing is are we willing to make the sacrifice?to take the first step?how many sinkies will agree to a 32.5 percent tax rate for every dollar they earn?how many will agree to having their cpfs and medisaves pooled together to provide retirement and healthcare for everyone?in regards to labour rights,work welfare and union rights,how many sinkies are willing to stand up and fight for it?to strike and protest?the tiongs did it without hesitation,banded together as band of brothers and stood up to their smrt and lta overlords,at the risk of their own ricebowls and livelihoods,for the sake of a better future for their people,how many sinkies dare to do that?yet we mock them and ridicule them.sinkies want cheap everything,cheap hawker center food,they balk at having to pay $10 a meal like they do in australia or canada,but do they realise that "cheap" comes at the expense of somebody else?the hawkers earning peanuts to make it cheap for them,and then the jobs of hawkers becomes ridiculed,and we wonder why singapore is a country that lacks talents or artisans,designers or decorators and skilled labourers.nobody knows how to do anything anymore because we all want it cheap.

singaporeans have light years to go before we even become a civilised nation.they must strive everyday to listen to robbie williams to be a better man.

[video=youtube;gY2ekm_krNU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=SG&v=gY2ekm_krNU&hl=en-GB[/video]

nayr69sg said:

Dear PAP, you should ask this question to the SDP; If the minimum wage is applied to ALL foreign workers, does it apply to foreign domestic maids in so many households in Singapore? It will mean higher costs for so many Singaporean families already struggling. If you vote SDP you are going to pay thousands for having a maid. Think carefully before you vote.

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This is not a very intelligent question to put it mildly.

Employment law for domestic workers need not be the same as other workers.

The law is dead but the law maker is living.

rodent2005 said:

This is not a very intelligent question to put it mildly.

Employment law for domestic workers need not be the same as other workers.

The law is dead but the law maker is living.

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One law for some another law for others.......as long as it suits you, you are fine that there are workers who are paid pittance. I am sure many Singaporeans would agree. However you miss the point. The businessmen are saying the same too about certain jobs that Singapore do not want either. Where do you draw the line? Anyway I have made my point but I think some people cannot see it (usually the ones who reply) and the rest who do see it are too ashamed to reply and discuss this because they know their foot is in their mouth (they probably have a maid at home too).

nayr69sg said:

Finally! Someone who gets what I have been trying to say. Frenchbriefs you da man! Oh well, I can tell you that there are MANY Singaporeans out there who think like prancku. In fact I would say they are the majority. Even staunch so called "opposition supporters" will also think like prancku.

Basically whatever suits their preference and convenience. Who really cares about the other person? all they care about is themselves. Which is what the PAP has been playing to all these years. The people deserve the PAP because that is EXACTLY what they want. Even those "opposition supporters" don't realize this. Sorry I am no PAP supporter but I got fed up listening to Singaporeans talking big when they didn't realize what they were asking for is not what they really want. No point "fighting" for Singaporeans because what they want is free labor in every household, company and business. If you offer it, people will take. No one in Singapore will agree to pay their plumber $70/hr. Or the guy who comes to assemble IKEA furniture $50/hr for doing so. All will kpkb why so expensive and what not.

For the record, people in first world countries tend to DIY. They go to big hardware stores to buy parts and fix the problem themselves. Only if they cannot fix or it is a big job or they can easily afford it, then they call the tradespeople. The DIY market is huge in first world countries. IKEA around the world prides on having easily assembled furniture that people can DIY. So it isn't true that everyone will have to pay more. But Singaporeans have been spoilt for so many years, who knows whether they will be able to change their habits.

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Got lah I paid my Plumber $80 to clear sink and bath tub chokes. A less than one hour job and many years ago.

nayr69sg said:

One law for some another law for others.......as long as it suits you, you are fine that there are workers who are paid pittance. I am sure many Singaporeans would agree. However you miss the point. The businessmen are saying the same too about certain jobs that Singapore do not want either. Where do you draw the line? Anyway I have made my point but I think some people cannot see it (usually the ones who reply) and the rest who do see it are too ashamed to reply and discuss this because they know their foot is in their mouth (they probably have a maid at home too).

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No lah I agree with you. Just that to achieve that need the environment to change to be more family/child/elderly friendly for working people who need help. The employer mindset has to change to have less last minute meeting or deadlines for example.

halo loh goon yew noe how many ah sum n bf chow geng claim abuse law or not

nayr69sg said:

..... Well the PAP govt says no Singaporean wants to be a construction worker anyway even if you paid more. So this is why I realized deep down Singaporeans don't want a first world country. It is easy to ask others to make sacrifices for you, pay more to help workers but when it is yourself who has to pay, many Singaporeans would rather kpkb. I cannot speak for CSJ but I feel that he is wasting his talents. Singaporeans might prove me wrong and every election I hope that they do, but they don't. And then I remember why.

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You see Singaporeans as the cause of their present predicament. I see otherwise.

I have a cat. I fat it with good food. Then came a rat. The damn cat can't catch the rat. I called it a lousy cat. Am I fair to the cat? You decide.

Seee3 said:

You see Singaporeans as the cause of their present predicament. I see otherwise.

I have a cat. I fat it with good food. Then came a rat. The damn cat can't catch the rat. I called it a lousy cat. Am I fair to the cat? You decide.

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I like your analogy. But it's not about being fair. It is about what to do to fix this problem. Yes you were wrong to fat the cat although at the time I am sure the cat enjoyed it. But the cat is now fat and cannot do its job. What are we going to do about it? Make the cat exercise? Is the cat going to like it?

If all cats are just going to harp about how unfair it was that you made them all fat and attend big gatherings to meow and meow bad meows about you what good is that going to do?

My point is not so much about past. But present. Singaporeans are clamoring for other people besides themselves to change. Companies and businesses should not hire foreign workers so easily for various reasons. However those reasons should not apply when it comes to maids and should be excluded from the Employment Act. How convenient.

ginfreely said:

No lah I agree with you. Just that to achieve that need the environment to change to be more family/child/elderly friendly for working people who need help. The employer mindset has to change to have less last minute meeting or deadlines for example.

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Always waiting for something to change for you before you take action yourself to change your own lives. For me to do this, this and that must change first. How convenient.

ginfreely said:

Got lah I paid my Plumber $80 to clear sink and bath tub chokes. A less than one hour job and many years ago.

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$80 is the appearance fee for my plumber (actually probably more). In fact such small jobs the plumber sometimes tells you to fix it yourself (if you haven't already tried).

All you need to do is to go buy this http://www.homedepot.com/p/BrassCraft-Zip-It-Bath-and-Sink-Hair-Snare-BC00400/100665735 for $3 and spend about 10 minutes of your time.

I tried to help my relative unclog their sink in Singapore but could not find this $3 plastic at Home-FIX. The hardware stores are pathetic in Singapore.

nayr69sg said:

Always waiting for something to change for you before you take action yourself to change your own lives. For me to do this, this and that must change first. How convenient.

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You are mistaken. I comment doesnt mean i hire maid. I am just sharing my observations. This maid issue has nothing to do with me personally. Never hire maids before, no need to and no intention to hire maids in the future. So nothing to do with me and for me to change absolutely.

nayr69sg said:

$80 is the appearance fee for my plumber (actually probably more). In fact such small jobs the plumber sometimes tells you to fix it yourself (if you haven't already tried).

All you need to do is to go buy this http://www.homedepot.com/p/BrassCraft-Zip-It-Bath-and-Sink-Hair-Snare-BC00400/100665735 for $3 and spend about 10 minutes of your time.

I tried to help my relative unclog their sink in Singapore but could not find this $3 plastic at Home-FIX. The hardware stores are pathetic in Singapore.

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Good info. Thanks for sharing.

nayr69sg said:

I like your analogy. But it's not about being fair. It is about what to do to fix this problem. Yes you were wrong to fat the cat although at the time I am sure the cat enjoyed it. But the cat is now fat and cannot do its job. What are we going to do about it? Make the cat exercise? Is the cat going to like it?

If all cats are just going to harp about how unfair it was that you made them all fat and attend big gatherings to meow and meow bad meows about you what good is that going to do?

My point is not so much about past. But present. Singaporeans are clamoring for other people besides themselves to change. Companies and businesses should not hire foreign workers so easily for various reasons. However those reasons should not apply when it comes to maids and should be excluded from the Employment Act. How convenient.

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There is a chinese saying, "it takes years to learn to be good but we can pick up bad immediately". We have created a whole generation of fat cats that can't catch mouse because their parents have forgotten how to catch mouse and couldn't pass down the skill. To relearn to catch mouse from scratch, it takes a few generations and we don't have the time. Therefore, whether the future is under pap or opp, it will not make any difference as only God can change fat cats to lean cats overnight.

You are not interested with the past but I am. I am particularly upset by the person who has fattened the cat but turned around to blame the cat for not being able to catch rats.

Minimum wage policy should apply to all working in the country. That policy sets the baseline for all other wages. Sinkapore should have got out of the cheap wage regime a few decades ago but for the laziness, or intellectual bankruptcies, of government.

Sinkapore should be like Switzerland ...good wages and focus on industries that can support those wages. So what is you pay $10 for a Big Mac meal if the lowest rung of society can afford it?

ginfreely said:

You are mistaken. I comment doesnt mean i hire maid. I am just sharing my observations. This maid issue has nothing to do with me personally. Never hire maids before, no need to and no intention to hire maids in the future. So nothing to do with me and for me to change absolutely.

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My apologies to you ginfreely.

Seee3 said:

There is a chinese saying, "it takes years to learn to be good but we can pick up bad immediately". We have created a whole generation of fat cats that can't catch mouse because their parents have forgotten how to catch mouse and couldn't pass down the skill. To relearn to catch mouse from scratch, it takes a few generations and we don't have the time. Therefore, whether the future is under pap or opp, it will not make any difference as only God can change fat cats to lean cats overnight.

You are not interested with the past but I am. I am particularly upset by the person who has fattened the cat but turned around to blame the cat for not being able to catch rats.

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But the cats still love the person who is also still fattening the cats. The skinny cats are angry maybe. Best thing for them is to start catching rats. Unless maybe all that they want is to be fattened too.

Reactionary vs being proactive.