$$$Trillion$$$ F-35 lost to F-16 in USAF War Game

nkfnkfnkf · Jul 1, 2015

http://rt.com/usa/270583-f-35-cant-win-dogfight/

Pentagon’s F-35 stealth jet can’t win dogfight – report
Published time: June 30, 2015 05:48 Get short URL

Three F-35 Joint Strike Fighters (Reuters/Lockheed Martin/Darin Russell)
Tags
Arms, Army, History, Military, SciTech, USA, Violence
A mock air battle between an F-16 jet and the military’s new and oft-troubled F-35 stealth jet showed that the F-35 is too sluggish to hit an enemy plane or dodge gunfire, according to a report.

The F-35 has cost the US military more than a trillion dollars since work on it began, making it the most expensive weapon in history.

The mock air battle, staged in January over the Pacific Ocean, was to test the F-35’s prowess as a close-range dogfighter at 10,000 to 30,000 feet. The F-35 pilot was to fly his jet hard, turning and maneuvering to “shoot down” the older F-16 jet, whose pilot would be doing his best to evade being hit, and trying to attack the F-35.

The test pilot’s five-page brief said that despite the F-16 being weighed down by two drop tanks, and with the F-35 jet carrying no weapons, the F-35 “remained at a distinct energy disadvantage for every engagement.”

Read more
Pentagon’s F-35 stealth fighter jet has a 'brain' problem

The F-35 was designed to far exceed the fourth generation F-16 jets, first built in the 1970s, with the ability to carry its fuel and weapons internally. Yet aerodynamic problems, such as “insufficient pitch rate” for the jet’s nose while climbing, were reported during the mock battle.

The F-35 test pilot also discovered he couldn’t comfortably move his head inside the jet’s cramped cockpit.

“The helmet was too large for the space inside the canopy to adequately see behind the aircraft,” said the report.

That allowed the F-16 to sneak up on him.

The F-35 pilot tried to target the F-16 with the stealth jet’s 25-millimeter cannon, which the smaller F-16 easily dodged. The pilot said the F-35 performed so dismally that it had no place fighting other aircraft within visual range.

In one maneuver, the F-35 was able to perform decently at rudder reversal at slow speeds, but this used a lot of the aircraft’s energy, leaving the aircraft vulnerable to attack.

The brief release to the War is Boring website was unclassified but still marked “for official use only.” It documented a mock battle taking place on January 14, 2015 over a sea test range in the Pacific Ocean near Edwards Air Force Base, California.

Papsmearer · Jul 1, 2015

nkfnkfnkf said:
http://rt.com/usa/270583-f-35-cant-win-dogfight/

Pentagon’s F-35 stealth jet can’t win dogfight – report
Published time: June 30, 2015 05:48 Get short URL

Three F-35 Joint Strike Fighters (Reuters/Lockheed Martin/Darin Russell)
Tags
Arms, Army, History, Military, SciTech, USA, Violence
A mock air battle between an F-16 jet and the military’s new and oft-troubled F-35 stealth jet showed that the F-35 is too sluggish to hit an enemy plane or dodge gunfire, according to a report.

The F-35 has cost the US military more than a trillion dollars since work on it began, making it the most expensive weapon in history.

The mock air battle, staged in January over the Pacific Ocean, was to test the F-35’s prowess as a close-range dogfighter at 10,000 to 30,000 feet. The F-35 pilot was to fly his jet hard, turning and maneuvering to “shoot down” the older F-16 jet, whose pilot would be doing his best to evade being hit, and trying to attack the F-35.

The test pilot’s five-page brief said that despite the F-16 being weighed down by two drop tanks, and with the F-35 jet carrying no weapons, the F-35 “remained at a distinct energy disadvantage for every engagement.”

Read more
Pentagon’s F-35 stealth fighter jet has a 'brain' problem

The F-35 was designed to far exceed the fourth generation F-16 jets, first built in the 1970s, with the ability to carry its fuel and weapons internally. Yet aerodynamic problems, such as “insufficient pitch rate” for the jet’s nose while climbing, were reported during the mock battle.

The F-35 test pilot also discovered he couldn’t comfortably move his head inside the jet’s cramped cockpit.

“The helmet was too large for the space inside the canopy to adequately see behind the aircraft,” said the report.

That allowed the F-16 to sneak up on him.

The F-35 pilot tried to target the F-16 with the stealth jet’s 25-millimeter cannon, which the smaller F-16 easily dodged. The pilot said the F-35 performed so dismally that it had no place fighting other aircraft within visual range.

In one maneuver, the F-35 was able to perform decently at rudder reversal at slow speeds, but this used a lot of the aircraft’s energy, leaving the aircraft vulnerable to attack.

The brief release to the War is Boring website was unclassified but still marked “for official use only.” It documented a mock battle taking place on January 14, 2015 over a sea test range in the Pacific Ocean near Edwards Air Force Base, California.

This means nothing. The F-35 was never meant to dogfight in clear visual range with another fighter. In a real war, the F-35 would have shot down half a dozen F-16s before they even spotted it or knew it was there. The F-16 would have had difficulty spotting the F-35 and its low radar signature at longer range. The F-35 would kill the F-16 by firing its AMRAAMs long before the F-16 knew it.

virus · Jul 1, 2015

Helmet too large to look behind? Never fix side mirror? How at rear cam?

Froggy · Jul 1, 2015

virus said:
Helmet too large to look behind? Never fix side mirror? How at rear cam?

Like this guy?

frenchbriefs · Jul 1, 2015

Papsmearer said:
This means nothing. The F-35 was never meant to dogfight in clear visual range with another fighter. In a real war, the F-35 would have shot down half a dozen F-16s before they even spotted it or knew it was there. The F-16 would have had difficulty spotting the F-35 and its low radar signature at longer range. The F-35 would kill the F-16 by firing its AMRAAMs long before the F-16 knew it.

U fool,if u read sun tzu bing fa and watched those wings of skies movies,u will know that smaller and more agile fighters f16 and mig35 will make use of skyscrapers,and washington bridges and grand canyon valleys to provide,cover and lure enemies into close combat situations.there they will perform triple barrel rolls,vertical axis spins and reverse thrusters backflips,using every part of their perfect flying machine afterburners,alierons in perfect tandem harmony to execute the killing blow.

Only idiots like you will sit in your fatass f35 cockpit and hope some idiot wander into your sights and fire your aamraam.

xebay11 · Jul 1, 2015

Papsmearer said:
This means nothing. The F-35 was never meant to dogfight in clear visual range with another fighter. In a real war, the F-35 would have shot down half a dozen F-16s before they even spotted it or knew it was there. The F-16 would have had difficulty spotting the F-35 and its low radar signature at longer range. The F-35 would kill the F-16 by firing its AMRAAMs long before the F-16 knew it.

Fine and dandy if you make sure you can wipe out the opposing force completely, or else you still have to get in close and dirty to dogfight till the opponent retreats or is wiped out completely. You read too much Commando comics.

Papsmearer · Jul 1, 2015

xebay11 said:
Fine and dandy if you make sure you can wipe out the opposing force completely, or else you still have to get in close and dirty to dogfight till the opponent retreats or is wiped out completely. You read too much Commando comics.

Each F-35 can carry 8 air to air missiles. A squadron of F-35s will have something like 100 air to air missiles amongst them. And even if they have only a 50% kill rate (in reality most of the missiles now have kill rates in the 90% +) they will kill 50 enemy fighters jets. Which air force in the world can put up more than 50 fighters at one time? And even more importantly, which air force pilots are so well trained that they will continue to give battle after seeing 50 of their colleagues get shot down, instead of running away and retreating? You are the jack ass reading too much comics.

laksaboy · Jul 1, 2015

Who cares as long as they can perform in airshows and during NDP? :rolleyes:

xebay11 · Jul 1, 2015

Papsmearer said:
Each F-35 can carry 8 air to air missiles. A squadron of F-35s will have something like 100 air to air missiles amongst them. And even if they have only a 50% kill rate (in reality most of the missiles now have kill rates in the 90% +) they will kill 50 enemy fighters jets. Which air force in the world can put up more than 50 fighters at one time? And even more importantly, which air force pilots are so well trained that they will continue to give battle after seeing 50 of their colleagues get shot down, instead of running away and retreating? You are the jack ass reading too much comics.

Do you play too many flight sims on your PC to come to that conclusion? 90% kill probability at BVR, you fcuking think the enemy is flying WW2 vintage fighters issit? You forget that they also are flying the latest stealth fighters with sophisticated ECM and jamming capabilities, so the kill ratio will go down to less than 50% and don't forget that they can also launch missiles at you at BVR. So we always take worse case scenarios in war, so according to you, the war games testing the dog fighting capabilities of the F-35s by the USAF is a bloody waste of time yah?

Narong Wongwan · Jul 1, 2015

Time to politicize this thread......
Now guess which red dot peesai cuntry wants to buy 100 units of these F35s?

frenchbriefs · Jul 1, 2015

Papsmearer said:
Each F-35 can carry 8 air to air missiles. A squadron of F-35s will have something like 100 air to air missiles amongst them. And even if they have only a 50% kill rate (in reality most of the missiles now have kill rates in the 90% +) they will kill 50 enemy fighters jets. Which air force in the world can put up more than 50 fighters at one time? And even more importantly, which air force pilots are so well trained that they will continue to give battle after seeing 50 of their colleagues get shot down, instead of running away and retreating? You are the jack ass reading too much comics.

even when i play ace combat X:skies of deception on master level and im a flying corp airman lieutenant first class,i could never get a clean shot kill with just one missile.and as i advanced in the game and the stages got progressively harder,i had to face up against stronger more elite fighter jets,these jets were super maneuverable and could twist and turn in the air and perform banks and rolls and were way beyond match of my missiles turning radius capability.i literally had to rely on my superior billard playing geometry skills and superior sniping skills to calculate the trajectory of attack and fire off a dummy missile before firing my reserve missile to where i predict the plane would be and score a hit.

u must be a paper general to think that winning a war is so easy just take how many ammunition u have and calculate the percentage of hits and tada the battle is over!!may i remind u USA fought the iraq war for 11 years and declared victory 27 times and yet nobody could tell whether USA won or not.

xebay11 · Jul 1, 2015

frenchbriefs said:
even when i play ace combat X:skies of deception on master level and im a flying corp airman lieutenant first class,i could never get a clean shot kill with just one missile.and as i advanced in the game and the stages got progressively harder,i had to face up against stronger more elite fighter jets,these jets were super maneuverable and could twist and turn in the air and perform banks and rolls and were way beyond match of my missiles turning radius capability.i literally had to rely on my superior billard playing geometry skills and superior sniping skills to calculate the trajectory of attack and fire off a dummy missile before firing my reserve missile to where i predict the plane would be and score a hit.

u must be a paper general to think that winning a war is so easy just take how many ammunition u have and calculate the percentage of hits and tada the battle is over!!may i remind u USA fought the iraq war for 11 years and declared victory 27 times and yet nobody could tell whether USA won or not.

Exactly right and throw in stealth, ECM and jamming into the mix and the kill probability goes right down, when the range between the enemy closes in and both sides are still standing, dirty and brutal dogfighting is the last stand. Idiot must thought that jet warfare is like playing space invaders where the enemy just comes in front of you defenseless for you to shoot.

Narong Wongwan · Jul 1, 2015

Common guys dun argue until face green green.....
Digress a little.....which fighter jet in your opinion is the best dogfight model.....the movie top gun says it's the F-14 tomcat.

Cerebral · Jul 1, 2015

frenchbriefs said:
U fool,if u read sun tzu bing fa and watched those wings of skies movies,u will know that smaller and more agile fighters f16 and mig35 will make use of skyscrapers,and washington bridges and grand canyon valleys to provide,cover and lure enemies into close combat situations.there they will perform triple barrel rolls,vertical axis spins and reverse thrusters backflips,using every part of their perfect flying machine afterburners,alierons in perfect tandem harmony to execute the killing blow.

Only idiots like you will sit in your fatass f35 cockpit and hope some idiot wander into your sights and fire your aamraam.

Unless its a VTOL aircraft, i doubt that tactic will work

The_Hypocrite · Jul 1, 2015

The best interceptor was the F14..but too bad they r all phased out n sadly only Iran flies them. Gifts to the Shah of Iran b4 the revolution.

Narong Wongwan said:
Common guys dun argue until face green green.....
Digress a little.....which fighter jet in your opinion is the best dogfight model.....the movie top gun says it's the F-14 tomcat.

The_Hypocrite · Jul 1, 2015

The F35 is a real piece of crap if it cant out fly the F16. Its easy to say that you dont need to see the enemy to shoot down the enemy n F35 was not designed to get into dogfights etc.

Dont forget this was the the fighter doctrine b4 the Vietnam war n the main US fighter the F4 Phantom was built to carry only missiles. However the rules of engagement was the pilots had to visually identity the enemy b4 attacking hence they had to get close n the missiles could not lock in close range. Also many missiles missed.

The f4s were later fitted with a gun n their kill rate increased.

Now think the F35. Its highly likely it will be placed in such situations again tat is why it has a gun..but if it's being out maneuvered all the time. N short range etc..what is its bloody use?

The USA needs to rethink the programme n redesign the plane. For example instead of having 1 plane to do 3 different jobs..navy, air force n marines. They should perhaps have 2 diff planes but with 50% parts interchangeability to reduce costs n less product lines. The navy n air force can have the same plane (like the F5) marines need vtol.

Maybe the yanks should have stuck w the F22. Modify it for air force n navy use. Marines get a new VTOL plane.

tanwahtiu · Jul 1, 2015

the reason why back n 1800s Britain ruled the wave, so they say, becos during that time they robbed people in Africa for slaves ,make easy human trade money, and them think their war weapons and ships were superior than others.

Then they came to Asia not because of their superior war weapons and ships but were drug dealers and traffickers. Opium trade was 2000% profit cant resist that easy drug money which they can make more newer but unsustainable ships which break down who knows when in the seas or oceans.

Now, no more easy drug money to make and have to stingy about money and even $trillion money spend also no use. Hard earn money, not drug money, cannot suka spend suka like water of course new invention create more cock up problems up lah!

tanwahtiu · Jul 1, 2015

back to horses and spears fight lah.

Horses killed in battle nothing goes to waste for protein rations for 1 week for soldiers.

Plenty of woods for making spears.

The_Hypocrite said:
The F35 is a real piece of crap if it cant out fly the F16. Its easy to say that you dont need to see the enemy to shoot down the enemy n F35 was not designed to get into dogfights etc.

Dont forget this was the the fighter doctrine b4 the Vietnam war n the main US fighter the F4 Phantom was built to carry only missiles. However the rules of engagement was the pilots had to visually identity the enemy b4 attacking hence they had to get close n the missiles could not lock in close range. Also many missiles missed.

The f4s were later fitted with a gun n their kill rate increased.

Now think the F35. Its highly likely it will be placed in such situations again tat is why it has a gun..but if it's being out maneuvered all the time. N short range etc..what is its bloody use?

The USA needs to rethink the programme n redesign the plane. For example instead of having 1 plane to do 3 different jobs..navy, air force n marines. They should perhaps have 2 diff planes but with 50% parts interchangeability to reduce costs n less product lines. The navy n air force can have the same plane (like the F5) marines need vtol.

Maybe the yanks should have stuck w the F22. Modify it for air force n navy use. Marines get a new VTOL plane.

bushtucker · Jul 1, 2015

a lot boils down to pilot skills. our current F15 and F16 pilots are not even battle tested or war tested, just simulated. giving them the F35 doesn't mean they can help you win wars.

Agoraphobic · Jul 1, 2015

X-Wing Starfighter! Lightyears ahead of the Tomcat!

Cheers!

Narong Wongwan said:
Common guys dun argue until face green green.....
Digress a little.....which fighter jet in your opinion is the best dogfight model.....the movie top gun says it's the F-14 tomcat.

$$$Trillion$$$ F-35 lost to F-16 in USAF War Game

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