It is not just the debts, you Greek fools

Barely sworn in, Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras’ new cabinet went straight to work trying to turn their country upside down -- and the European Union with it. By fighting austerity and pushing for debt relief, they are attempting to lead Greece out of its five-year long depression and solve its economic woes.

Unfortunately, the Tsipras government is fighting the wrong crisis, in more than one sense. Greece’s short-term problem is not the debt it owes to other European countries and institutions. And Greece’s long-term challenge is not the total level of debt but its lack of competitiveness.



Long Term Debt

As Tsipras and Varoufakis are meeting their European counterparts to lobby for debt relief, they are focusing on a part of Greece’s debt that should probably worry them least for the moment. The maturities on these loans are so long and the interest rates so low, that Greece should be able to afford them easily.


On the EFSF’s website we also learn that the current weighted average maturity for loans to Greece is 32.38 years -- way longer than the EFSF’s loans to Portugal and Ireland at 20.8 years. the interest rate on the EFSF loans is only about 1.5 per cent and repayments are only set to begin in 2023.

As a result of the generous conditions already given to the country, Greece’s current interest expenditure on its public debt (as a percentage of GDP) is comparable to that of France and Germany -- and only about half of Italy’s burden.


Short Term Debt

There is a much smaller part of Greece’s total debt burden should cause much greater concern. While Greece’s total debt load has a long average maturity, a small proportion of its debt consists of treasury bills. These T-Bills have maturities of 13 and 26 weeks and a total volume of €15 billion, as approved by the European Central Bank.

As long as the Greek government is able to roll these T-Bills over and replace them with newly issued T-Bills each time, it would not have much to worry about. Yet rolling them over gets harder as uncertainty over Greece’s fiscal future grows and as Greek banks are struggling to refinance in the face of dwindling deposits.

How can Greek banks purchase T-Bills when their own customers withdraw their own deposits out of fear? Rolling over €15bn will get more difficult by the month, let alone increasing the volume T-bills as may be necessary once Greece does not receive any further bailout funds.



The root issue - Lack of competition

The other question is whether debt is really Greece’s most important issue. For what would Greece gain if it managed to drastically reduce its debt while not improving its other economic circumstances?

Few other figures illustrate Greece’s problems better than its exports ratio. Greek goods exports are 16.5 per cent of GDP. Within the eurozone, only Cyprus has a lower ratio at 13.5 percent. Other countries have a much stronger exports sector. Not just the fabled exports steamroller of Germany (38.3 percent) but even countries such Portugal (29 per cent) and Malta (37 per cent). The low Greek exports ratio demonstrates how uncompetitive Greece has become in international product markets.

If Greece wants to have an economy to create jobs and growth, it needs to continue the kind of supply-side reforms that were begun under the previous Papademos and Samaras administrations. What Tsipras’ government is about to do is the very opposite of such reforms. On the contrary, their first announcements are all about reversing previous reforms, strengthening trade unions, stopping privatisations and re-regulating the labour market. Such manoeuvres may keep Syriza’s voters happy, but they will not increase Greece’s growth potential.

neddy said:

Barely sworn in, Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras’ new cabinet went straight to work trying to turn their country upside down -- and the European Union with it. By fighting austerity and pushing for debt relief, they are attempting to lead Greece out of its five-year long depression and solve its economic woes.
Unfortunately, the Tsipras government is fighting the wrong crisis, in more than one sense. Greece’s short-term problem is not the debt it owes to other European countries and institutions. And Greece’s long-term challenge is not the total level of debt but its lack of competitiveness.
... ...
If Greece wants to have an economy to create jobs and growth, it needs to continue the kind of supply-side reforms that were begun under the previous Papademos and Samaras administrations. What Tsipras’ government is about to do is the very opposite of such reforms. On the contrary, their first announcements are all about reversing previous reforms, strengthening trade unions, stopping privatisations and re-regulating the labour market. Such manoeuvres may keep Syriza’s voters happy, but they will not increase Greece’s growth potential.

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I think that Tsipras, leader of essentially bankrupt Greece, needs to be a bit humble and cough out a plan to EU / Merkel how he will get Greek economy self sufficient by perhaps getting Greek exports moving/ the Greek people self sufficient: that will make Greeks more confident in their own banks and stop withdrawing so much $$$ from the Greek banking system/ economy: at least that will give Tsipras less need to issue T-bills (which U have stated the banks lack $$$ to purchase).

In a way, beyond democracy (invented by Greeks and spread round the world by their Roman conquerors ) Greek needs a new narrative if it is to survive its current debt crisis and a new narrative to move the Euro zone forwards: that is the power of example.

My personal suggestion to Tsipras (who comes from a humble background) would be to use his survival skills and humble background to move Greece towards a more loving, trusting and sharing economy so that the people are strong, selfless and can make do with less simple by sharing necessities around. Banks need to be refinanced by trusting citizens etc (EU is unlikely to help if Greek citizens themselves don't act): Tsipras (within limits of security concerns) should downgrade to simpler accommodation and say rent out the presidential palace etc to contribute to the nation's coffers and draw a salary not more than twice/ thrice the median wage etc. Only by example can the Greeks attain self sufficiency beyond living on borrowed money, only then will the EU (or any other democratic state such as USA/ China) where the debt burden (public/ private) manage to survive well into the next century, free from debt induced slavery.

bic_cherry said:

My personal suggestion to Tsipras (who comes from a humble background) would be to use his survival skills and humble background to move Greece towards a more loving, trusting and sharing economy so that the people are strong, selfless and can make do with less simple by sharing necessities around. Banks need to be refinanced by trusting citizens etc (EU is unlikely to help if Greek citizens themselves don't act): Tsipras (within limits of security concerns) should downgrade to simpler accommodation and say rent out the presidential palace etc to contribute to the nation's coffers and draw a salary not more than twice/ thrice the median wage etc. Only by example can the Greeks attain self sufficiency beyond living on borrowed money, only then will the EU (or any other democratic state such as USA/ China) where the debt burden (public/ private) manage to survive well into the next century, free from debt induced slavery.

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1.Tsipras may be from a modest background, but pride and assertively will be needed to stand tall in Europe. To be humble is to be weak.

2. A bankrupt Greece is more a headache for creditors because Greece lives on self sufficiently . Unlike Singapore where basic needs like food is imported. Greece olive oil is also exported as "Italian" olive oil.

3. Debt is not a bad servant. In Japan, debt is acquired domestically. In countries that depend on foreign investments and debt, the money will disappear and return to source at a sign of trouble. Remember 1997 and 2008.

4. If you have been living in Greece before, you will find that Greeks are more refined and educated. But they are stubborn. In general, Greeks are in general more tolerant, generous and kind people who value human dignity. I have been to their community farms, etc. Their history has not always being kind to them.


Just think about it. If one day, Singapore has no money to buy food from Malaysia, should it ...

Be humble and beg for food from Malaysia.

BE ASSERTIVE and tell Malaysia, I have nothing left but bombs to hit your business. I have nothing to lose. Give me some food on IOU and when we eat the food and have strength, we will work to pay you for the food later.

Only in the mutual virtues of charity and austerity, can solutions to the Greek debt

Only in the mutual virtues of charity and austerity, can solutions to the Greek debt crisis be found...

neddy said:

Re (SBY): It is not just the debts, you Greek fools
1.Tsipras may be from a modest background, but pride and assertively will be needed to stand tall in Europe. To be humble is to be weak.
2. A bankrupt Greece is more a headache for creditors because Greece lives on self sufficiently . Unlike Singapore where basic needs like food is imported. Greece olive oil is also exported as "Italian" olive oil.
3. Debt is not a bad servant. In Japan, debt is acquired domestically. In countries that depend on foreign investments and debt, the money will disappear and return to source at a sign of trouble. Remember 1997 and 2008.
4. If you have been living in Greece before, you will find that Greeks are more refined and educated. But they are stubborn. In general, Greeks are in general more tolerant, generous and kind people who value human dignity. I have been to their community farms, etc. Their history has not always being kind to them.

Just think about it. If one day, Singapore has no money to buy food from Malaysia, should it ...
Be humble and beg for food from Malaysia.
BE ASSERTIVE and tell Malaysia, I have nothing left but bombs to hit your business. I have nothing to lose. Give me some food on IOU and when we eat the food and have strength, we will work to pay you for the food later.

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Talk about SG run out of cash: why? Great depression situation? ISIS targeted vital services: MBS, Changi airport? Racial riots?:: by then, NS= decimated already, so like in Iraq case where ISIS just robbed fleeing Iraqi soldiers of USA made weapons such as black hawk helicopters and artillery, a fallen state has nothing to be assertive about.

A bankrupt Greece (as part of Euro currency system) is of course a very big headache for creditors let alone Eurozone. Japan debt is so called stable because the Japanese is a nationalistic country and Japanese support their own gahmen if not the Shinto emperor (even to death)... Unfortunately, as your previous post alluded to, Greece will have difficulty rolling over short term debt because Greek banks, faced with local runs by Greek citizens on banks, will be precluded from bidding for such T-bonds etc given their lack of funds: thus placing the Greek central bank again at risk of bankruptcy if it is unable to roll over even its short term debt.

Debt (especially foreign) is a bad servent : he flees during crisis leaving the master high and dry (as U alluded to in your case examples of 1997 and 2008): thus, per Japanese example, the only stable source of debt is local sourced which obviously contradicts your evidence of Greek citizens withdrawing their cash from banks= a NEGATIVE source of funds for the Greek financial system: thus leaving moral leadership the ONLY way left forwards.

Pray tell, besides a nonexistent Greek army or degeneration into ISIS like groups germinating on Greek soil, please accede to my suggestion that morality at the heart of all leadership activity is the only viable way forward now that the Greek gahmen is bankrupt in all but name.

Maybe if Greeks accepted the virtues of austerity and their creditors the virtue of charity, then a mutually peacable way forward can effectively be found.

Re: Only in the mutual virtues of charity and austerity, can solutions to the Greek d

I still remember the Asian Financial Crisis when the Malaysia PM suddenly became humble and asked Singapore for a loan. If they have been more assertive and threatened to send troops down the Malayan railway track, maybe Singapore will lent.

It is hard to practice austerity when the people want to play the FAIRNESS game. Just see the last decade in Singapore.
The REAL story is that Singapore has lost its economic miracle and need foreigners to sustain its economy, but are the locals happy?

Austerity is not always a virtue. Eg I am a landlord who live a relaxed lifestyle. My tenents practice austerity all the time because no matter how hard they work, a large portion of their incomes are given to me. And I use their incomes to enjoy myself. I am a rent seeker bastard, but what I do is legal.

What ISIS do, is illegal.


The trouble with mang angmohs is financial mgt. My friend complain about his son, who earn quarter million a year, asking money from him because he is broke. This type - austerity cannot save, because he refuse to understand finincial planning and mgt. I pity the father who has to bail him out. Lucky his father own a number of commercial properties.

Re: Only in the mutual virtues of charity and austerity, can solutions to the Greek d

neddy said:

I still remember the Asian Financial Crisis when the Malaysia PM suddenly became humble and asked Singapore for a loan. If they have been more assertive and threatened to send troops down the Malayan railway track, maybe Singapore will lent.

It is hard to practice austerity when the people want to play the FAIRNESS game. Just see the last decade in Singapore.
The REAL story is that Singapore has lost its economic miracle and need foreigners to sustain its economy, but are the locals happy?

Austerity is not always a virtue. Eg I am a landlord who live a relaxed lifestyle. My tenents practice austerity all the time because no matter how hard they work, a large portion of their incomes are given to me. And I use their incomes to enjoy myself. I am a rent seeker bastard, but what I do is legal.

What ISIS do, is illegal.

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Point is that Greece already received €240b in allowance from creditors to haircut existing debt not too long ago. The creditors seem to have done their part, so in the name of 'fairness', Greece will probably have to do something to service its existing €315b debt.

Of course, being debtor (and sovereign state), Greece can still propose to her creditors some creative repayment or debt forgiveness scheme etc: but at least such assertiveness is towards mutual reconciliation of difference (remedy of large debt owed): to send troops into other people's territory is not just illegal (as is ISIS murderous ways) it is act of war: which will be very destabilising for the world if not just the whole eurozone alone.

Re: Only in the mutual virtues of charity and austerity, can solutions to the Greek d

bic_cherry said:

Point is that Greece already received €240b in allowance from creditors to haircut existing debt not too long ago. The creditors seem to have done their part, so in the name of 'fairness', Greece will probably have to do something to service its existing €315b debt.

Of course, being debtor (and sovereign state), Greece can still propose to her creditors some creative repayment or debt forgiveness scheme etc: but at least such assertiveness is towards mutual reconciliation of difference (remedy of large debt owed): to send troops into other people's territory is not just illegal (as is ISIS murderous ways) it is act of war: which will be very destabilising for the world if not just the whole eurozone alone.

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The point which the new Greek PM suggest is that the pain is too much to bear. If the worker is still on MC and not producing work, where got money to pay. It is not fair in this perpective. Cannot blame him for helping a section of Greeks. He is elected by a country who missed the good old days.

But of course, he is a left wing trade unions bastard. If he and the finance minister come to Singapore, they will think the maids and construction workers in Singapore are slaves and the aged cardboard collectors are totally unacceptable in a humane society.

By tbe way, Greeks do not need army, they just need Russian Putin as friend, to scare the foreign fighers away.

Re: Only in the mutual virtues of charity and austerity, can solutions to the Greek d

neddy said:

The point which the new Greek PM suggest is that the pain is too much to bear. If the worker is still on MC and not producing work, where got money to pay. It is not fair in this perpective. Cannot blame him for helping a section of Greeks. He is elected by a country who missed the good old days.

But of course, he is a left wing trade unions bastard. If he and the finance minister come to Singapore, they will think the maids and construction workers in Singapore are slaves and the aged cardboard collectors are totally unacceptable in a humane society.

By tbe way, Greeks do not need army, they just need Russian Putin as friend, to scare the foreign fighers away.

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Indeed, Euro zone is getting more and more complicated by the day, just read 'dangerous cracks at europe's centre' by FT Gideon Rachman in ST 4feb2015, Greece is flirting with Russia's Putin, trying to use Putin as leverage against eurozone creditors... Joblessness in Spain, Italy and France are all @ double digits now... Putin's fighters still stirring trouble in Ukraine; Syria, Libya, Yemen and Iraq in a mess and probably a good source of heavy weaponary to perpetuate terrorist activities within Paris/ Eurozone nations, Eurozone is getting more and more complicated by the day...

Re: Only in the mutual virtues of charity and austerity, can solutions to the Greek d

Eurozone is a big ponzi scheme........it needs more and more members to fund the scam.

Re: Only in the mutual virtues of charity and austerity, can solutions to the Greek d

Yes. For decades, European integration created a virtuous circle as integration brought prosperity and generate political support for further integration, which result in more prosperity. It was a winning formula for the economy and the people.

However, now that the debt bubble has burst, the European model has become associated with austerity, not prosperity. So, the virtuous circle has turned vicious.

Instead of Eastern and Central Europe catching up to the rest of the EU, Some parts of Western Europe have begun to fall behind the EAST

Also

Those from the Eastern and Central Europe are feeling that Brussels has simply taken the place of despot Moscow in their post-Soviet era. There is the same feelings of resentments that destroyed USSR and Yugoslav.

In fact, other than Poland and Germany, where EU enthusiasm remains strong, the sentiment are getting much weaker across most of the rest of Europe. As a result. extreme right wing parties are climbing in the polls across the continent.

France - Le Pen would win the 2017 presidential race if it were held today.

Denmark - the far-right People’s Party also won the most votes in the European parliamentary elections. In November, it topped opinion polls for the first time.

UKIP, the Finns Party, and even Sweden’s Democrats are shattering the traditional political parties.

Given the disappointing performance of liberal economic reforms and the stinginess of the EU, with racism, islamapobia and xenophobia are on the rise, there are talk of a breakaway in this “unity in diversity” EU as the EU’s motto puts it.

Will EU survive Deflation (and Austerity), Islam and the Euro? (D.I.E.)

Re: Only in the mutual virtues of charity and austerity, can solutions to the Greek d

The southern European states lost their competitiveness when they joined the EU. That's why the EU is important to the Germans; it is to protect them from cheaper competitors in Europe as well as provide them with a market. If the price of a machine from Germany is the same as that made in Greece, of course, the Greek business will buy the German product. If the Greek machine is 50 percent cheaper, the German product would lose out.

Re: Only in the mutual virtues of charity and austerity, can solutions to the Greek d

neddy said:

Yes. For decades, European integration created a virtuous circle as integration brought prosperity and generate political support for further integration, which result in more prosperity. It was a winning formula for the economy and the people.
However, now that the debt bubble has burst, the European model has become associated with austerity, not prosperity. So, the virtuous circle has turned vicious.
Instead of Eastern and Central Europe catching up to the rest of the EU, Some parts of Western Europe have begun to fall behind the EAST
Also
Those from the Eastern and Central Europe are feeling that Brussels has simply taken the place of despot Moscow in their post-Soviet era. There is the same feelings of resentments that destroyed USSR and Yugoslav.
In fact, other than Poland and Germany, where EU enthusiasm remains strong, the sentiment are getting much weaker across most of the rest of Europe. As a result. extreme right wing parties are climbing in the polls across the continent.
France - Le Pen would win the 2017 presidential race if it were held today.
Denmark - the far-right People’s Party also won the most votes in the European parliamentary elections. In November, it topped opinion polls for the first time.
UKIP, the Finns Party, and even Sweden’s Democrats are shattering the traditional political parties.
Given the disappointing performance of liberal economic reforms and the stinginess of the EU, with racism, islamapobia and xenophobia are on the rise, there are talk of a breakaway in this “unity in diversity” EU as the EU’s motto puts it.
Will EU survive Deflation (and Austerity), Islam and the Euro? (D.I.E.)

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In a way, I see the euro like Fukushima (nuclear power) or climbing Mt Everest (adventure): better not to endeavour if U do not have the physical, moral and intellectual foundation.

Nuclear power can produce a lot of cheap (& supposedly clean) energy: but special skill and moral values are necessary in developing a nuclear powerplant in a earthquake/ tsunamii prone country. Likewise is training and safety extremely important in attempting to climb Mt Everest.

Problem with euro currency union is that the necessary safety controls were probably either absent or inadequate: thus the ability of the Greek government to submit falsified national financial records to the EU for so many years.

As it turns out, the euro currency seems to have become some sort of Pandora's box/ can of worms/ fools errand: tempting to open and rewarding at first but releasing many evils when implemented due to being neglegently/ poorly thought out at implementation stage.

Re: Only in the mutual virtues of charity and austerity, can solutions to the Greek d

winnipegjets said:

The southern European states lost their competitiveness when they joined the EU. That's why the EU is important to the Germans; it is to protect them from cheaper competitors in Europe as well as provide them with a market. If the price of a machine from Germany is the same as that made in Greece, of course, the Greek business will buy the German product. If the Greek machine is 50 percent cheaper, the German product would lose out.

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Including southern states into €uro currency system allowed them to live off borrowed €€€ and thus retire early from work: thus competing LESS with German industry. German thought that its own economy was in top form but the real reason was that they had actually granted early retirement to citizens of southern European states by lapping up their illegitimately issues gahmen bonds. Now they hold €315b of probably useless Greek gahmen issued bonds that nobody wants...

Short term gain, long term pain: now Germany (one of the chief henchmen behind €uro) will have to absorb substantiative financial loss from their harebrained creation.

Most important between Greece and eurozone is they continue to find solutions to their marriage in the rocks: so that even if divorce happens, the next generation will not have to suffer too much.

Re: Only in the mutual virtues of charity and austerity, can solutions to the Greek d

bic_cherry said:

In a way, I see the euro like Fukushima (nuclear power) or climbing Mt Everest (adventure): better not to endeavour if U do not have the physical, moral and intellectual foundation.

Nuclear power can produce a lot of cheap (& supposedly clean) energy: but special skill and moral values are necessary in developing a nuclear powerplant in a earthquake/ tsunamii prone country. Likewise is training and safety extremely important in attempting to climb Mt Everest.

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Yes. Don't go there. Any monetary union is troublesome.
Like nuclear power, it is great when it is working, but disaster if it does not - have you seen the google maps of Fukushima ?
Very depressing!

it is not exactly a black swan event, experts know of the different scenerios but chose to ignore it.

In my part of Australia out in the West, because we are using a common interest rate and currency as the rest of the country, we have no economic levers to stop a recession in the state economy, because the RBA has to consider other states, most "bigger" than ours. Sometimes, it is better to have our own currency and economic independence.

Re: Only in the mutual virtues of charity and austerity, can solutions to the Greek d

bic_cherry said:

Including southern states into €uro currency system allowed them to live off borrowed €€€ and thus retire early from work: thus competing LESS with German industry. German thought that its own economy was in top form but the real reason was that they had actually granted early retirement to citizens of southern European states by lapping up their illegitimately issues gahmen bonds. Now they hold €315b of probably useless Greek gahmen issued bonds that nobody wants...

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If a country has natural resources, you can retire early, or in oil rich countries, do not even pay income tax.

You can also do that in a low wage country, eg Spain and Greece before joining the Euro.

Once you use the Euro, things are different. You need reforms to boost work productivity. Otherwise, you will be living on the productivity of others , eg Germany.

Greeks are big dreamers and poor administrators. Moreover, their trade unions are militant. They love frilled sotongs. My god! Apollo Help!

Re: Only in the mutual virtues of charity and austerity, can solutions to the Greek d

winnipegjets said:

The southern European states lost their competitiveness when they joined the EU. That's why the EU is important to the Germans; it is to protect them from cheaper competitors in Europe as well as provide them with a market. If the price of a machine from Germany is the same as that made in Greece, of course, the Greek business will buy the German product. If the Greek machine is 50 percent cheaper, the German product would lose out.

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That is the trouble. EU is about cooperation and collaboration, not competition. But they forgot that they are exporting outside EU, that is where the good Italian industry got hit real hard. Still remember those Italian stove ovens in Singapore that leak electricity. We bought them because they are cheap, so long that we can live with their temperament.

Re: Only in the mutual virtues of charity and austerity, can solutions to the Greek d

neddy said:

Yes. Don't go there. Any monetary union is troublesome.
Like nuclear power, it is great when it is working, but disaster if it does not - have you seen the google maps of Fukushima ?
Very depressing!

it is not exactly a black swan event, experts know of the different scenerios but chose to ignore it.

In my part of Australia out in the West, because we are using a common interest rate and currency as the rest of the country, we have no economic levers to stop a recession in the state economy, because the RBA has to consider other states, most "bigger" than ours. Sometimes, it is better to have our own currency and economic independence.

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Buy gold, keep at home in safe, get martial arts training for your loved ones and self, keep a gun with U if legal... In short, run your own life like an independent state if one's paranoia so dictates...

I agree that the RBA dictating rates goes against the grain of free market economics: more like state controlled economic development: anyhow USA (FED) does much the same so as I mentioned, a degree of paranoia amongst modern democratic state citizens is not misplaced.

Any union is like a marriage, never enter into one without getting to know your partner very well and not just rush into it based upon some preconceived ideals. Also work continuously and conscientiously on it, keep up with the latest research and do not brush warnings by stakeholders (e.g. about possibly high tsunami flooding diesel generators programmed to cool nuclear reactors to tragic result): do not get distracted or rest on laurels just because the profits/ balance sheets look impressive: do not get misled by greed.

Unfortunately, like Fukushima, the euro currency system seems to have semi-exploded into its participant's faces... recovery is still possible, however, like a broken marriage, it is never easy to rebuild trust between opposing parties.

Re: Only in the mutual virtues of charity and austerity, can solutions to the Greek d

neddy said:

If a country has natural resources, you can retire early, or in oil rich countries, do not even pay income tax.
You can also do that in a low wage country, eg Spain and Greece before joining the Euro.
Once you use the Euro, things are different. You need reforms to boost work productivity. Otherwise, you will be living on the productivity of others , eg Germany.
Greeks are big dreamers and poor administrators. Moreover, their trade unions are militant. They love frilled sotongs. My god! Apollo Help!

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Actually, being part of euro currency agreement is just like marriage contract: one must be faithful to one's partner and also keep the relationship on stable ground by remaining faithful to the original spirit in which the union was formed (I.e. the good of all).


Greece and Germany are like as different as chalk and cheese: one loves to work and measure their efforts in terms of $$$$$ owned (Germans), the other loves to daydream and perhaps lifestyle flamboyance (Greeks). The Germans failed to check out (/investigate) the actual quantum of bonds the Greek gahmen had issued and instead busied themselves selling German products to Greek consumers whilst the Greeks felt obliged to lend to the Germans more since Greek issued bonds seemed to be in such hot demand (at relatively low coupon rates): it was a strange relationship, each faithful to private fantasies rather than the original union objectives.


Neither could be described as faithful to the spirit of the original union, all had sinned. Now that the truth is out, I do hope that an amicable solution can be found...

Re: Only in the mutual virtues of charity and austerity, can solutions to the Greek d

neddy said:

That is the trouble. EU is about cooperation and collaboration, not competition. But they forgot that they are exporting outside EU, that is where the good Italian industry got hit real hard. Still remember those Italian stove ovens in Singapore that leak electricity. We bought them because they are cheap, so long that we can live with their temperament.

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Both Greece and Germany probably created the euro for selfish personal motives: the former to live off borrowed $$$, the latter to find an easy market for German made goods and the chance to enslave Greece through owning Greek bonds... Too bad, the Germans blinked and the Greeks pulled the ultimate betrayal by printing lots of useless Greek bonds that the Germans swallowed hook-line-sinker... now that EU is stuck with €315b of junk Greek bonds, I do not forsee too many smiling faces around Brussels/ other Eurozone towns...

Re: Only in the mutual virtues of charity and austerity, can solutions to the Greek d

bic_cherry said:

Both Greece and Germany probably created the euro for selfish personal motives: the former to live off borrowed $$$, the latter to find an easy market for German made goods and the chance to enslave Greece through owning Greek bonds... Too bad, the Germans blinked and the Greeks pulled the ultimate betrayal by printing lots of useless Greek bonds that the Germans swallowed hook-line-sinker... now that EU is stuck with €315b of junk Greek bonds, I do not forsee too many smiling faces around Brussels/ other Eurozone towns...

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Greece has little say in EU. It is Germany and France that call the shots.

Germany is making a bundle of the Greeks. That's why the German and French banks should take a haircut on their loans to Greece.