Does a conduct such as this amount to corruption ?

Say if you are employed as an employee of a company that sells branded goods. In the course of your employment, you get to know many suppliers who supply the branded goods to your company. And in the course of your employment, you also get to know many of your company's customers.

You see my point? You are now the middleman between the company's suppliers and the company's customers.

Your customers approach you to get a particular brand from a supplier you know. Your supplier agrees to provide you with the product and bypass the company. You earn a fat commission by selling the product directly to your company's customer.

Does this amount to corruption?

What is the product that you sell to your company's customer is not a product that is carried by your company ?

Why work for the company?

Setup your company and do this legit and free of worries. Be a broker.

If you asked this question you know it is immoral. Your conscience is killing you.

xpo2015 said:

Why work for the company?

Setup your company and do this legit and free of worries. Be a broker.

If you asked this question you know it is immoral. Your conscience is killing you.

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Please don't derail the discussion.

Stick to the point. And please don't presume that because I asked I'm the one doing it.

Mai kei kiang hor.

xpo2015 said:

Why work for the company?

Setup your company and do this legit and free of worries. Be a broker.

If you asked this question you know it is immoral. Your conscience is killing you.

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At best, you are not an honourable man.

Does anyone know if it amounts to corruption under Singapore laws?

JohorRookie said:

Please don't derail the discussion.

Stick to the point. And please don't presume that because I asked I'm the one doing it.

Mai kei kiang hor.

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It is your moral duty not to bypass your company & deal directly with your company customer's & if you company finds out you do this...YOU BE SACKED & THE COMPANY WILL SUE YOU.

It is breach of trust & confidentiality & in other words, it is corruption, . Period!. but, like the Chinese saying, "you guard the well, you steal some, water to drink"... in other words....have you done National Slavery? "do anything, but do not get caught"..

JohorRookie said:

Say if you are employed as an employee of a company that sells branded goods. In the course of your employment, you get to know many suppliers who supply the branded goods to your company. And in the course of your employment, you also get to know many of your company's customers.

You see my point? You are now the middleman between the company's suppliers and the company's customers.

Your customers approach you to get a particular brand from a supplier you know. Your supplier agrees to provide you with the product and bypass the company. You earn a fat commission by selling the product directly to your company's customer.

Does this amount to corruption?

What is the product that you sell to your company's customer is not a product that is carried by your company ?

Click to expand...

The answer is clear. Breach of fiduciary duty as an employee to your employer when you take the commission in your pocket.

Your company has a right to sack you without notice as it is a fundamental breach of your employment contract.

As for corruption, you go CPIB and ask the officer lah... The number to call is 6270 0141.

The love for money is the root of all evils.

AhMeng said:

The answer is clear. Breach of fiduciary duty as an employee to your employer when you take the commission in your pocket.

Your company has a right to sack you without notice as it is a fundamental breach of your employment contract.

As for corruption, you go CPIB and ask the officer lah... The number to call is 6270 0141.

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I know the part about moral duty and the right of the company to dismiss the employee.

I'm just not sure if it stops there. Can the company trace the commission that the employee received over the years ?

More importantly, which section of the PCA is applicable.

As for asking the CPIB officer, I think it's even better to ask the Court, right ?

xpo2015 said:

The love for money is the root of all evils.

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Yes, but is it corruption under Singapore laws ?

halsey02 said:

It is your moral duty not to bypass your company & deal directly with your company customer's

Click to expand...

There are 2 issues here:

1. The company does not keep a list of their customers. It's a retail business, and customers are just customers, not clients in the corporate sense. The customer who walks into your shop to buy Gucci 3 times a year can walk to a neighbouring LV shop to buy LV.

2. Say, your shop deals with LV, but the same supplier of LV also supplies Gucci, but your shop does not carry Gucci. So this customer who used to patronize you for LV products now decides to buy a Gucci product from you (instead of going to Gucci shop). You somehow manage to get LV supplier to sell you the Gucci product and you are in fact bypassing Gucci, not your employer, who is LV.

Okay, we can cut that crap about moral duty. I think we all know it's immoral. The very fact that the employee does it under the table and not dare to let his employer know of such a dealing shows the employee is guilty conscious.

Whether the employee can be prosecuted under the Prevention of Corruption Act is my concern.

Where does it fit in ?


Corruption Offences Under The PCA

Under Section 5 of the PCA, a person is guilty of a corruption offence when he, by himself, or in conjunction with any other person,

corruptly solicit, receive, or agree to receive any gratification for himself, or for any other person; or
corruptly give, promise, or offer to any person any gratification, whether for the benefit of that person or of another person,
as an inducement to or reward for any person to do or forbear to do anything in respect of any matter or transaction whatsoever, actual or proposed.

Under Section 6 of the PCA, a corruption offence is committed when -

an agent corruptly accepts or obtains, or agrees to accept or attempts to obtain, from any person, for himself or for any other person, any gratification as an inducement or reward for doing or forbearing to do, or for having done or forborne to do, any act in relation to his principal's affairs or business, or for showing or forbearing to show favour or disfavour to any person in relation to his principal's affairs or business;

any person corruptly gives or agrees to give or offers any gratification to any agent as an inducement or reward for doing or forbearing to do, or for having done or forborne to do any act in relation to his principal's affairs or business, or for showing or forbearing to show favour or disfavour to any person in relation to his principal's affairs or business; or

any person knowingly gives to an agent, or if an agent knowingly uses with intent to deceive his principal, any receipt, account or other document in respect of which the principal is interested, and which contains any statement which is false or erroneous or deflective in any material particular, and which to his knowledge is intended to mislead the principal.
Anyone found guilty of an offence under Section 5 or 6 of the PCA shall be liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding $100,000/- or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or to both.

Corruption in Singapore is a serious offence. Don't play play. Your future life will be ruined once kena charged for corruption. You will be recognized once you hit the papers. Any amount of paper money is not worth exchanging that for your public image and freedom. Better stop before it is too late. Whoever that may be.

xpo2015 said:

Corruption in Singapore is a serious offence. Don't play play. Your future life will be ruined once kena charged for corruption. You will be recognized once you hit the papers. Any amount of paper money is not worth exchanging that for your public image and freedom. Better stop before it is too late. Whoever that may be.

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Yes Kopisai...

AhMeng said:

Breach of fiduciary duty as an employee to your employer when you take the commission in your pocket. Your company has a right to sack you without notice as it is a fundamental breach of your employment contract.

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JohorRookie said:

...customer who used to patronize you for LV products now decides to buy a Gucci product from you ..You somehow manage to get LV supplier to sell you the Gucci product and you are in fact bypassing Gucci, not your employer, who is LV.

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No 2 ways about it, straight breach of fiduciary duty and employment contract (written or silent).

Imho, the PCA seems wide and encompassing to possibly extend to this Gucci deal. Isn't this a "competitive" product equivalent in his employer's total product offer?

Think TS is better off with straight legal advice, than any moralistic slants here

JohorRookie said:

There are 2 issues here:

1. The company does not keep a list of their customers. It's a retail business, and customers are just customers, not clients in the corporate sense. The customer who walks into your shop to buy Gucci 3 times a year can walk to a neighbouring LV shop to buy LV.

2. Say, your shop deals with LV, but the same supplier of LV also supplies Gucci, but your shop does not carry Gucci. So this customer who used to patronize you for LV products now decides to buy a Gucci product from you (instead of going to Gucci shop). You somehow manage to get LV supplier to sell you the Gucci product and you are in fact bypassing Gucci, not your employer, who is LV.

Okay, we can cut that crap about moral duty. I think we all know it's immoral. The very fact that the employee does it under the table and not dare to let his employer know of such a dealing shows the employee is guilty conscious.

Whether the employee can be prosecuted under the Prevention of Corruption Act is my concern.

Click to expand...

Ok, I understand you, I am no lawyer or is in reading the law....my lecturer in one of the courses that I attended for some legal laws...stated that, for the prosecution to present the case....they must be precise on which law & which section of the law to state & what charges...I am just a lay person....

Though it may not be always obvious, some customers are more loyal to the company (or someone influential in the company) than they are to you, a mere cog in the machinery.

They will tell-tale about your exploits to the company behind your back. Be careful.

Couple Of Points:

1. Yes, it is corruption and no, there will never be a case of such an employee being a "middleman", for the simple reason that the company will make sure that their sales and buying/purchasing departments are staffed by different people.

2. You might want to consider changing your posting style slightly to be more accommodating to different and even "derailing" views, for the simple reason that this is a public forum and subject to many views from different people. The last 2 persons who behaved like a dictator in the forum, one got exposed as a conman and the other had to retire his "star" moniker and claimed he went on multiple sabbaticals, while continuing to troll with multiple insignificant monikers. .

JohorRookie said:

Say if you are employed as an employee of a company that sells branded goods. In the course of your employment, you get to know many suppliers who supply the branded goods to your company. And in the course of your employment, you also get to know many of your company's customers.

You see my point? You are now the middleman between the company's suppliers and the company's customers.

Your customers approach you to get a particular brand from a supplier you know. Your supplier agrees to provide you with the product and bypass the company. You earn a fat commission by selling the product directly to your company's customer.

Does this amount to corruption?

What is the product that you sell to your company's customer is not a product that is carried by your company ?

Click to expand...

yinyang said:

No 2 ways about it, straight breach of fiduciary duty and employment contract (written or silent).

Imho, the PCA seems wide and encompassing to possibly extend to this Gucci deal. Isn't this a "competitive" product equivalent in his employer's total product offer?

Think TS is better off with straight legal advice, than any moralistic slants here

Click to expand...

Thanks, yinyang.

Yes, it's definitely a competitive product. I would think if a person is being paid full time to perform a duty, it's not proper for the person to run a "sideline" with the time and resources of his or her employer. But I'm not able to point out that it's illegal or just a private contractual matter between the employer and the person.

laksaboy said:

Though it may not be always obvious, some customers are more loyal to the company (or someone influential in the company) than they are to you, a mere cog in the machinery.

They will tell-tale about your exploits to the company behind your back. Be careful.

Click to expand...

Let's just say it's a common practice among many salesperson who deal in branded goods. Being in the thick of action I'm sure such people are more aware of the perils than us. If they have been earning good extra income using such a method, I would be wary to open mouth to say anything. Why ? Because anything I say I would still come across as a green eye monster.

Hey ! You're razor sharp on the point about customers being your worst enemy. Imagine if the customer who bought from the salesperson outside of the company is unhappy, perhaps due to some minor scratches, the salesperson who sold the product in private would have to do everything to appease the customer, as the customer aware that the salesperson sold the product in breach of his employer's interest, would have had him by his balls (if guy).