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Of Niches and Seng Kang West

Goh Meng Seng

Alfrescian (InfP) [Comp]
Generous Asset
Re: Construction of controversial columbarium under way despite mp promising dialogue

I think you are more of "GMS Hater"! :wink:

I am simply putting up a reasoned analogy. If you can't rebut the reasons, then so be it. But to give some incoherent reasoning in the attempt to justify the unjustifiable or in an attempt to make me look like a "HATER", that is not acceptable. Hater, is irrational and unreasonable. Seems that this label you try to put on me, suits you better. :smile:

Goh Meng Seng



mr gms, while I admit I voted for WP before but I also vote(SDA once) for any political parties as long it not pap. that dun make me a WP only supporter.

you action only make you seem like WP HATER. every darn events or issue also must pull wp into it.

if you really sincere to help those BTO buyers, just concentrate on that issue.
 

sleaguepunter

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Re: Construction of controversial columbarium under way despite mp promising dialogue

I think you are more of "GMS Hater"! :wink:

I am simply putting up a reasoned analogy. If you can't rebut the reasons, then so be it. But to give some incoherent reasoning in the attempt to justify the unjustifiable or in an attempt to make me look like a "HATER", that is not acceptable. Hater, is irrational and unreasonable. Seems that this label you try to put on me, suits you better. :smile:

Goh Meng Seng

hate u for what?

no good for health u know.:biggrin:
 

Goh Meng Seng

Alfrescian (InfP) [Comp]
Generous Asset
Re: Construction of controversial columbarium under way despite mp promising dialogue

Well, good that you know that. Not only Hate is bad for your health, it is BAD for your mental and spiritual being as well!

That is why I am never a hater to anything.

Goh Meng Seng


hate u for what?

no good for health u know.:biggrin:
 

sleaguepunter

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Re: Funeral Parlour in Sengkang West? HDB Please Come Clean!

so you think papig forget the result of building the serangoon garden foreign worker dorm over the residents protest?
 

Confuseous

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Why was MP Lam Par sitting with the panel instead of with residents?

Sitting at the wrong end.

Yup, that's what Lam Pin Min did. He was elected by the residents of Sengkang West to represent their interest. But when he received numerous queries on the Columbarium which will be housed in that vicinity, what did he do? Sit at the table with reps from HDB, URA and Life Corp, and not with the residents of Sengkang West.

This raises doubts about which side he represents and in what capacity he organised that dialogue.

He needn't have to sit at the table with these guys. I mean it was the Ministry of National Development, URA, HDB and Life Corp (as the bidders) who had to do all the answering. Lam Pin Min just had to sit and identify with the people asking questions from these government agencies and private companies, helping his residents to make better sense of the issue.

But that is the sad state of affairs in Singapore, especially if you elect an MP from the PAP. There seems to be this struggle for such MPs - "do I represent the Government, its decisions and its interests, or do I represent the people even if it means speaking against some of the Government's decisions and positions?"

Even if they believe strongly against some policies like the 6.9 million population paper, when the time comes for them to vote on it they are going to go hide in the toilet or something.

It certainly seems like the days of MPs like Tan Cheng Bock who were brave enough to go against Party Whip, stand with the people and vote against policies which are wrong, are gone!

https://www.facebook.com/raviphilemon/posts/10152962596758277
 

Goh Meng Seng

Alfrescian (InfP) [Comp]
Generous Asset
Re: Funeral Parlour in Sengkang West? HDB Please Come Clean!

I think those civil servants are really duds who only knows how to follow the book strictly without any learning nor understanding nor sensitivity towards other people's perspective or feelings.

But it is also a problem created by PAP itself, with its aggressive population policy, it will need to build a lot of infrastructures in a squeezed time frame. That is how the workers dormitory comes about.

As I have mentioned in my FB, the biggest losers will be PAP :

Who will be the biggest losers in this Sengkang West saga if HDB and URA just ignored the people's protest and demands? It isn't going to be the residents although some of them may just give up and lose their hard earn money in deposits for their BTO. Not the religious organizations who will be short changed by HDB and URA's assertion that commercial companies with more financial power are allowed to compete with them in bidding for religious land and worst, make use of their religions to make money.

The ultimate losers are HDB, URA and PAP because they will lose something even money cannot buy... Public Trust!
Conclusion: I thank those civil servants in HDB and URA for the great help to opposition in cutting down PAP's public standing by doing such silly things!

Goh Meng Seng




so you think papig forget the result of building the serangoon garden foreign worker dorm over the residents protest?
 

Confuseous

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Sengkang columbarium saga: 挂猪头卖羊肉

It is final, the pro-foreign and pro-business Against People Party has driven one of the last few nails into her own coffin for her 2016 funeral and have also successfully prepared her own hi-tech ‘attas’ resting place@ Fernvale Columbarium in Sengkang heartland!!

HDB and URA are unequivocal in taking a ‘legal’ stand that NO regulation has been flouted in the award to the highest bidder, ‘Eternal Pure Pte Ltd’ wholly owned by ‘Life Corporation’, a FOREIGN public listed company, for a public tendered land zoned for “Religious Purpose”, even though it’s a foreign public listed company and a for-profit organization. As long as they fulfilled the letter of the law to operate 80% as a Chinese Temple and only use 20% for a Columbarium which is really their CORE business in their corporate model for offering a full suite of premium funeral services.

There is a very appropriate Chinese Proverb that aptly describes this whole Saga: 挂猪头卖羊肉. (P.s. no disrespect to Buddhists, Hindus or any religion that advocates vegetarian lifestyles.) Translated it means that the product was advertised as pork but in reality it’s mutton being sold!!!

Call it misrepresentation? Call it sugar coating? Or call it a loophole in HDB/URA regulations? It’s not new!!! Our government famously coined and sold us the IR (Integrated Resort) which any fool would know by now, is a CASINO!!! Not one but two in one go, Singaporeans bought the sale pitch, hook, line and sinker! Today many ‘legal’ moneylender shops pepper our neighborhood centres in the heartlands, thanks to the government for extending these credit lines!

Firstly, it’s clear as daylight, HDB advertised the ‘Land for Religious Purpose’ deemed for a ‘Chinese Temple’ but buried the ‘Ancillary Use’ in the fine prints whereby the legal clarification of ‘Ancillary Use’ can only be found in URA master plan for zoning purposes which then reveals it allows for Columbarium, Crematorium etc. Was this an intentional omission or legal run-around? Only HDB can answer the 5.2 million-dollar question!

Certainly HDB can legally fault the buyers for not doing enough due diligence and can safely hide behind legal fine print. BUT last I checked HDB is still a public institution in the civil service beholden to public service; AND it is NOT a private developer who can claim ‘CAVEAT EMPTOR’ (Buyers Beware) and easily wash their hands from their responsibilities to the buyers who are not just buyers BUT CITIZENS!

HDB and URA while allowing ‘Eternal Pure’ to mask itself as a Chinese Temple operator when its core business is in Funeral Services and its stated intended use for the land is for Columbarium; no matter if it’s just 20%, it’s still a Columbarium. While its operation as a Chinese Temple is extremely questionable, even though legally it can and will provide temple services; ethically it’s immoral and despicable because it is neither a religious non-profit entity, nor a bona fide Buddhist/Taoist group affiliated and accountable to our local Buddhist/Taoist Federations. ‘Eternal Pure’, as a secular profit driven company, does not have ‘locus standi’ nor the religious credentials, and to allow it to operate a Chinese Temple as a profit driven business is a mockery and a travesty to the sacrosanct religious worship we hold dear as devout believers of religion.

What differentiates ‘Eternal Pure’ from FOREIGN bogus monks who come regularly from China on visitor visas, don saffron robes and beg for ‘alms’ from unsuspecting Singaporeans in the name of religion? Why go after Kong Hee and gang for using church money for Crossover Project evangelism just because it promotes & profits the secular career of Ho Yeow Sun and doesn’t actually serve religious purposes? BUT IT’S OK for secular profit-driven company to use religion to make money? The Pot calling the kettle BLACK? Double standards?

Secondly, of greater concern is the seemingly tacit blessing of the government for the encroachment of secular business (even foreign companies) to compete with our local religious groups for already scarce, expensive and short lease (30 yrs only) land designated for ‘Religious Purpose’.

This dangerous and politically costly precedent brings with it far reaching implications and consequences, if truly the government has given the green light for the ‘open season bidding’ of ‘Land for Religious Purpose’, making the bidding purely market-driven and income-generating; that local religious groups would be adversely disadvantaged. Many religious groups often have difficulties in finding sufficient space to house their services for their worshippers and their charitable outreach to the society’s needy.

Religious groups are already hard-pressed financially to offer charitable programs without government grants. And to further drain them of precious financial resources so as to compete with public listed companies for land that are rightfully and morally reserved only for religious use; the government is conveniently blurring the line between the secular and religious to milk maximum profits in the sale of public land.

This precedent of a loose and expedient interpretation of ‘Religious Use’ must not be left unchallenged by the different major local religious leaders and federations otherwise anything and everything in religion may be open to be expediently ‘re-defined’ by default at the behest of the government as it deems fit. This Sengkang columbarium saga triggers a lot of questions and does not bode well for the future landscape for religion and governmental relationship.

EXPEDIENCY UNMASKED

* Submitted by TRE reader.
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
Re: Funeral Parlour in Sengkang West? HDB Please Come Clean!

I think those civil servants are really duds who only knows how to follow the book strictly without any learning nor understanding nor sensitivity towards other people's perspective or feelings.

But it is also a problem created by PAP itself, with its aggressive population policy, it will need to build a lot of infrastructures in a squeezed time frame. That is how the workers dormitory comes about.

As I have mentioned in my FB, the biggest losers will be PAP :

Who will be the biggest losers in this Sengkang West saga if HDB and URA just ignored the people's protest and demands? It isn't going to be the residents although some of them may just give up and lose their hard earn money in deposits for their BTO. Not the religious organizations who will be short changed by HDB and URA's assertion that commercial companies with more financial power are allowed to compete with them in bidding for religious land and worst, make use of their religions to make money.

The ultimate losers are HDB, URA and PAP because they will lose something even money cannot buy... Public Trust!
Conclusion: I thank those civil servants in HDB and URA for the great help to opposition in cutting down PAP's public standing by doing such silly things!

Goh Meng Seng

Don't worry, Meng Seng. This little fiasco will cost the PAP at least 7000 votes in Sengkang West at the next election. I suggest you put your papers in as an independent candidate. This is a single ward and not a GRC, so u can enter. Dr. Lam only won by around 5000 votes over a no name oppo member. For sure, this margin of victory has dissipated by now. I suggest you crowdfund your deposit money and campaign money. Many Sengkang West residents will support you. Also, I suggest that you blow up pictures of MP Lam's recent taxpayer paid holiday cum "Retreat" with the Grass Root leaders to Taipei, as well as him sitting on the opposite side at a table with all the big companies and defend them against the people. Suggest that u include those pics in your pamphlets. Best of luck to you. I am not Sengkang West resident, but I will sure vote for u if I was.

Cheers,

PAPsmearer
 

Confuseous

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Fernvale residents send open letter to Khaw and PM

This is an open letter we have just sent (8th January) to Minister Khaw Boon Wan for National Development and Prime Minister Lee:

To:
Mr. Khaw Boon Wan
Minister for National Development

Dear Minister,

Re: Fernvale Link Columbarium of Chinese Temple.

1. We refer to the issue of HDB awarding the land meant for Chinese Temple to a private commercial company, Eternal Pure Land Pte Ltd (EPL), owned by the Australian Public Listed company, Life Corporation Limited (LC).

2. We are a group of present and future residents of Fernvale HDB estate who will be affected by the abovementioned development. Although we have different concerns of the said project, but we have come to the following consensus and conclusions.

3. First and foremost, all of us in the group, with different religions, agree that it is totally inappropriate for a commercial company to bid for a land meant for religious use and to make money in the name of religion.

4. It is implied in the Charity Act that any organization with advancement of religion should be subjected to the Act and supervised by the Commissioner of Charities. It means that anyone who runs a Chinese Temple at Fernvale must be a non-profit organization registered with the Commissioner of Charities.

5. Apparently from the dialogue we had on last Sunday (4 Jan 2015), the representative from LC has admitted that they are not a non-profit organization or a registered religious organization.

6. This will set a very bad example and precedent for all the religious organizations in Singapore, including but not limited to Buddhist, Christians, Catholics, Hindu etc. Registered religious organizations are non-profit organizations and it is unfair for them to compete with commercial entities which have more financial power to tender for the very limited land slated for religious purposes. For the example of Chinese Temple, we notice that only 20 plots of land were slated for tender by HDB over more than two decades.

7. Moreover, the company, Eternal Pureland Pte Ltd, which won the tender, is registered as company which deals with Funeral and related activites (including embalming, Cremating and Cemetery services upkeep of cemeteries, sales of bereavement products and services). This company was incorporated only 16 days after the tender was called and it has absolutely no experience whatsoever in running a Chinese Temple.

8. We have also learned from the advertisement put up by EPL that they are marketing their niche at the price of $6,500, which is a discounted price from its original $15,000. We do not think such columbarium which put up such Premium Prices could serve ordinary HDB heartlanders like us at all.

9. Many of us have a religion and this is a grave concern to us to see the official stance of HDB in allowing religion to be “Corporatized”. We reiterate that we are against commercial companies making money in the name of religion.

10. We hope that HDB should declare the tender null and void as such practice affects all religious organizations in Singapore.

11. We hope that in the event of putting the land up for tender again, HDB could consider the combination of Chinese Temple with Childcare/Student Care. The Childcare/Student Care centre should be required to open to all races. This will serve the community well as many of the residents are young couples with kids.

12. This will be the most satisfactory and perfect solution to prevent any unwanted disruption to the many BTO buyers who were misled by HDB as well as present residents who weren’t even made known of this development at all when they bought their flats.

13. It will be totally regrettable if HDB insisted in carrying on the building of the columbarium and the Chinese Temple.

14. The reason why so many of us were caught off guard is because we have placed so much trust in a government statutory board. We have expected HDB to be transparent, open and more forthcoming with important information. We didn’t expect a reputable and biggest developer of properties like HDB would hide critical material information under ultra fine prints and vague uncertain phrases (eg. “may include”) coupled with disclaimers.

15. We believe that if there were information which could help HDB to fetch a better price for the BTOs (eg. Mall, LRT stations, amenities etc), HDB would surely have put them up prominently and affirmatively. We expect HDB to do likewise for information (eg. Columbarium) that may make the flats less attractive to most buyers and thus, fetch lower prices for HDB.

16. These are not “isolated cases” but happened in a massive scale. Thus, we feel that HDB should not treat our demand for refund without other penalties as a case by case basis. HDB should be more transparent and fair in dealing with all those who wanted a full refund.

17. We expect that HDB treats those of us who wanted a full refund fairly with the following conditions:

a) full refund of whatever deposits paid
b) no technical penalty (eg. 1 year wait) should be applied
c) priority to select alternative flats in other development.

18. We feel that this is the worst option for all of us, even if full refund is given to some. We still hope that the option of having a Chinese Temple with Childcare/Student Care could be granted as it serves almost everyone’s interests.

19. It would be utterly regrettable if HDB did not void the tender to LC and let it proceed as planned. Even worse if HDB refused to treat all of those who seek a full refund fairly.

20. We hope that you, as the Minister of the ministry, could do the right thing, not only for us but for the whole of Singapore, to set the record right by disallowing commercial entities to bid for land slated for religious purposes. Thus, void the current tender to LC.

21. As the old saying goes, Trust is hard to earn but easy to lose. In you, we trust to right the wrongs. Thank you.

Yours truly,

Present & Future Fernvale Residents

Source: www.facebook.com/columbariumisabadidea/posts/764685173580036
 

Romagnum

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: Fernvale residents send open letter to Khaw and PM

So long-winded.

This is basically NIMBY. They just don't want the columbarium in their backyard.

After the public backlash, they go on this private entity, listed company track.

Just typical self-serving selfish Sinkies.

Hope Khaw Boon Wan stands firm. If they insist, makan the deposit and push them back the BTO queue.

Ashamed to have such Sinkies as my fellow countrymen
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
Re: Fernvale residents send open letter to Khaw and PM

Writing long letters is a waste of time. Those who aren't happy with the PAP should simply vote the fuckers out!
 

Romagnum

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: Fernvale residents send open letter to Khaw and PM

Don't know why the media even bother to give them so much publicity.

Useless bunch of selfish Sinkies.
 

3_M

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: Funeral Parlour in Sengkang West? HDB Please Come Clean!

Not an easy issue to exploit.

1. Residents might not see politicizing the problem as the best way forward.
2. What solution can WP offer other than to agitate the ground sentiment? They would be portray as opportunist not working in the interests of residents. It only offer PAP the chance to divert attention away.

What WP can do is to somehow send a subtle reminder to the voters during election rally and attacking angle needs to be carefully calibrated so as to avoid being portray as opportunists. The key is still timing.
 
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xpo2015

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: Pinky is 别问...

[video=youtube;7YDi_K7mu40]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YDi_K7mu40[/video]
 

mojito

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: Funeral Parlour in Sengkang West? HDB Please Come Clean!

The ultimate losers are HDB, URA and PAP because they will lose something even money cannot buy... Public Trust!
Conclusion: I thank those civil servants in HDB and URA for the great help to opposition in cutting down PAP's public standing by doing such silly things!

Civil servants are ultimate losers? Hahaha! Thanks for brigtening up my day!

PAP MP loses his seat, we will still be around. WP form government, we will also be around. We are untouchable! All the while drawing salaries and bonuses paying for houses buying cars sending kids to school while you man your computer store. What value is public trust to me? Make my money and fuck off back to my hometown liao, hahahahaha!
 

Confuseous

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
MP Lam Par says he will look after residents. Transcript of meeting says otherwise

Sengkang West MP Lam Pin Min appears to be blaming residents for being unreasonable with their demands, although he didn’t explicitly say it during the dialogue session with residents on Sunday (4Jan).

This comes after he told off a resident who said that the HDB could have included the word “columbarium” in its Fernvale Lea site plan if it truly wanted to be honest with buyers.

“Because like I said, you know, even childcare centre or kindergarten alright? We have faced resistance also and one of the reasons that I often receive, “my child has grown, I don’t need a childcare centre”, as simple as that ok?”

Lam also insisted that future Fernvale Lea residents weren’t taken for a ride by the HDB. He argued that the details of a columbarium were included in the sales brochure for Fernvale Lea.

“We are not here to hide or bluff. Ok? Alright? I mean those of you who bought the Fernvale here, you have the brochure it is written there. We are not hiding anything.”

If you’ve read Redwire’s Expose on the HDB, you’ll remember that a columbarium wasn’t mentioned in the sales brochure – not even in the fine print. Residents would have to conduct further checks with the URA to find out that a columbarium could be built.

Now, Lam has assured Sengkang residents that as the MP of Sengkang West, he will protect their interests.

” My duty is to address your concern, to speak up for my residents and to protect our interest. Alright?”

But after this fiasco of a dialogue session, it wouldn’t be surprising if residents doubt his word. It would be probably be less shocking than if they discovered a surprise columbarium would be built next-door to their homes.

Here’s an excerpt of a transcript from the dialogue session:

Dr. Lam:That is beside the point. I think what is important is that you know.. as the MP of Sengkang West. My duty is to address your concern, to speak up for my residents and to protect our interest. Alright?Take for example, if let say..err.. URA or HDB were to say, lets change this particular site that has been tendered for Chinese temple and change it to a crematorium. You think I will let it? Obviously I would not. I would be the first one to make noise and say how can you put up a crematorium in the middle of a residential estate? So that is also in my interest to protect because I have to answer to my residents.

John Tan: Yes, I understand that, that is your duty. But let’s look at it this way. How many of us know that there is going to be columbarium next to our flat, anybody saw the small print or fine print? No?

(Residents say ‘no’ in unison)

Everyone know it as a Chinese temple. ok?

Now, what is the projected earning for the next five years for your company? Because you are telling me you don’t want to run it for profit and all that. Hey, you are a listed company you know? You are always making money, how can you say that you are not making money? What is the projected income for the next five years?

(Residents applause)

Dr. Lam: Err.. shall we just bring back to our discussion. Just now as I was asking alright, after this dialog, we want to make a few things very clear, alright?

This piece of land has been tendered out for a Chinese Temple, alright? There will be no funeral services as far as I am aware for the next thirty years, this land has been tendered out. There will not be funeral services. Ok? This is one thing I want to clarify.

Secondly, there will be no cremation services. As far as I am aware. ok? I cannot tell you things that I don’t know but as far I am aware I am not here to blast or anything like that. As far I am aware there will not be funeral services, there will not be cremation services. ok?

Thirdly, this piece of land has been tendered off for a Chinese Temple, a place of worship, ok? ok?

And in the brochure, alright? and also in the URA guidelines, I have also just flashed it out alright in places of worship there are ancillary uses ok?

And one of the ancillary uses is a columbarium with not more than 20% of GFA (Gross Floor Area). Ok? This are facts that are in the URA, it is in the brochure. We are not here to hide or bluff. Ok? Alright?

I mean those of you who bought the Fernvale here, you have the brochure it is written there. We are not hiding anything.

Of course we have the resident’s feedback, oh why can’t you have a site plan where the picture is, put there Chinese temple stroke (/) columbarium blah blah blah that kind of thing.

Alright? Err…I mean if you look at the approved ancillary uses. Alright? It can be for conference room, library, kindergarten, childcare centre services, blah blah blah. ok?

Then of course the next question, are we supposed to put all of these into the site map? Alright? Because to be honest with you, although we are sitting now discuss about ancillary service for columbarium. alright?

If let say for example, in my past experience. Alright?

When we build a childcare centre or a kindergarten, I face resistance from residents. it is not just columbarium.

When I say we are going to put a childcare centre or a kindergarten in this place I have faced resistance from residents…

A Resident shouted: “I think that is beside the point already”

Dr. Lam: No wait wait let me finish first.

John: if you are talking about no, put on the site plan, are you telling me that the site plan is so small, you cannot put all these words in? You can’t put it inside there? You can!

There is only a Chinese temple, there is so much space left. Why must you hide it in fine print? Let us all know that you are going to have a stroke (/) columbarium stroke (/) childcare stroke (/) whatever we can always make up our mind after that right?

Why put it in fine print? it is the same as the Sim Lim Trader like that what. You are cheating us!

(Residents applause)

Dr Lam: I mean, Of course we can put every single uses, let say there is 1000, we will put 1000 and it will become a fine print ok? We will not argue that. So what I am trying to say is that Because one of the questions is that is HDB trying to hide. Of course it is not

John: Obviously it is. If you put it out, do you think how many of us will apply for the flat here. How many?

(Loud applause from residents)

Dr. Lam: Ok let me finish. Because like I said, you know, even childcare centre or kindergarten alright? We have faced resistance also and one of the reasons that I often receive, “my child has grown, I don’t need a childcare centre”, as simple as that ok? Because to the resident she doesn’t need it.

John: As I said, if you build a childcare centre now, all of us will shout yes!

(residents applause)

Dr. Lam: Of course some people will want, some people will not.

John: Or you can put as a kindergarten we also say yes!

(A resident shouted ‘wet market’)

Oh yes, wet market dry market, hawker centre, we all say yes!

(Another resident cuts in with his question and Dr. Lam did not reply to John’s comment.)
[Source]: Redwiretimes.com
 
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