Roy ngerng: I am tired and i do not know if i can still carry on the fight

winnipegjets · Nov 12, 2014

Leongsam said:
I beg to differ. Only in socialist states does the government take over what I consider to be a family responsibility. Singapore is not a socialist state.

What's wrong with a socialist state? Life will be wonderful for all if the huge expenses in life - health care, education, daycare, unemployment insurance and pension. That's where the state plays a role ...only it can shoulder these expenses at the lowest cost through taxation and investing the pool of funds.

Mothers should be the ones looking after the young and children should be the ones looking after their aged parents. If this is not possible due to some misfortune, other family members should step up and help out.

That's Confucian bs. Why should the parents burden the next generation?

A government's role should be confined to defense, law and order, infrastructure development, basic education and primary health care.

That's not the PAP; it controls almost everything in sinkapore. It even cons us of our retirement savings.

As for not being able to touch CPF I do not understand why this fallacy is being spread on an ongoing basis. CPF can be withdrawn at 55. This age has never changed.

You just refuse to see the truth. Can we take out ALL our savings?????????

winnipegjets · Nov 12, 2014

nayr69sg said:
the discussions you guys are having now and the points brought up were brought up back in 2004 when I was on this forum writing the same things.
At that time I was in the "evangelistic" phase thinking the more I write, the more I can show people the "truth" about PAP, the bad things about government etc etc.
The GE came and went. Nothing happened. I kept talking to friends, relatives thinking to myself, they don't know, if they know they will realize the truth and we can make things better.

One day my cousin told me off at a family dinner. You talk so much.....in the end there are 3 things you can DO

1. Take action and do something to make Singapore better. Join politics. Join grassroots. Be an activist.
2. Migrate to a place where things are how you want them to be.
3. Shut up.

Most sinkees have done #3. Those who can afford it, took #2. A few idealistic ones like Roy and HHH take #1.
It is the #1 group that is going to change sinkapore ...that group will grow to a significant mass to bring down the PAP.

I was taken aback for a while. Then I reflected on his words. I thought seriously about what Singapore's problems were and what some of the solutions might be. The more I thought about it, the more I realized the real truth. There was no point in getting hung up with the past mistakes of the government. It is done. How do you fix it? If you were put into power, elected to government how would you fix it? Would the people like the solution? Would they support the solution? I reached the conclusion that what I would propose would require sacrifices and the people would not support it. Singaporeans wanted things to be perfect everybody wanted their way. You can blame the PAP for doing that, you can say this and that about it. But the job at hand is not to continue being a cheerleader on the complaint bandwagon and evangelize. Real solutions might take a long time and lots of sacrifice. Who would want that? No one.

If sinkees were told that they pay 50 percent tax and in return, they get free education, free healthcare, unemployment insurance up to 2 years, welfare, free daycare and pension, do you not think the majority of sinkees will buy into it?

It is what you are selling. For decades we have being sold that capitalist bs ...that everyone can be rich if they work hard. Sinkees work like dogs and saw some wealth in the early days. As more sinkees join the retirement rank, they started to realize that we have been conned because there was nothing left in their CPF after paying off their overpriced HDB flats. And then they fear getting sick as the medical cost will kill them faster than the sickness.

hence I chose option 2 and 3. I am now no longer living in Singapore and am very thankful for making that decision. Migrating was tough. very tough. Nothing like what people make it out to be. It is a real struggle at the beginning and required sacrifice and sweat. Mind you a lot of people talk about migrating, changing government etc. But it is all hot air and just talk. No action no sacrifice willing to be made.

Not many people can do #2, so most do #3.
If PAP arrange for anyone who wants to leave to go to Canada, I bet you can see at least 50 percent of sinkees taking up the offer.

I will tell you from the bottom of my heart that the day I believe Singapore might be able to emulate countries like Finland, Sweden and Switzerland is the day when most households no longer have maids.

Sinkees have maid because they have to work like dogs. What happen to the Confucian bs about family supporting each other? PAP wants sinkee to adopt Confucian bs in children looking after parents, yet it doesn't push the Confucian bs that parents support the family unit of their children.
Sinkapore can only be a success like the Scandinavian countries if it changes its economic and social policies. Stop making life so miserable for sinkees.

It is a simple issue. Domestic maids. People can argue they don't want FTs in the face in the MRT, on the bus, at the shopping centre, at their workplace etc etc. They can argue that businesses should hire more locals, be willing to pay locals more etc etc.

But once you talk about domestic maids. They will say oh I work so long hours, no maid how to work? who will take care of my kids? Where got time to do housework? Why should I do housework when I can hire a maid to do it and spend the time doing housework earning more money at work?

Sinkees work bloody long hours ...not productively, I must add ...and thus seek help. The PAP could end this reliance on maid ...just raise the cost to that comparable of a sinkee. But it won't because then sinkees will want the government to regulate working hours and demand better pay. The maid policy is just an extension of flooding the country with cheap foreign labour to depress wages and work sinkees so hard that they don't have time to think about governance in the country. If sinkees are thinking, PAP is in trouble.

All the above excuses the businessmen people criticize and the government they criticize for bringing in FTs can cite as well. There are essentially FTs in a very large proportion of Singapore households that they see EVERYDAY. Domestic Foreign Maids.
Are the number of domestic foreign maids dropping in Singapore? Have they all gone home? The first FTs that should go home should be the domestic maids if you ask me.

There are more foreign workers here than maids lah.

In all the countries Singapore emulates to be, few people have a 24h live in caregiver at home. It is reserved for the extremely wealthy who have huge mansions and do need a team of staff to maintain the property. Singaporeans live in tiny flats and apartments for the most part but they NEED maids.

Blame it on the PAP lah.

I totally agree with leongsam. Most Singaporeans and the PAP actually are the perfect fit for each other. The ones who totally disagree and stand by their principles simply will be unable to live in Singapore and among other Singaporeans. The kiasu kiasee mentality, everybody is doing this and that so should do the same (read tuition classes for kids, enrichment classes, dance classes, mind gym classes etc), everyone has maid why not us?

Leongsam is going to be a PAP candidate for the Marine Parade GRC. A star team of Tin Pei Lin, Kong Hee, Sun Ho and Vivian with Leongsam is unbeatable.

Try not having a maid and see how many of your friends will frown and try to convince you to have a maid. Cos if you can live without a maid how come they cannot? They have to justify their actions by convincing you to do the same. Same with the kids classes. And many other things. I know this because I never had a maid after I got married and raised a family. We never sent out kids to all these crazy enrichment classes either.

You dare to be different while most sinkees are just like sheeps.

The massive influx of migration during the great financial crisis helped to prop the Singapore economy. Good or bad? Depends how you look at it.

I dispute that massive influx of foreigners help the sinkapore economy. GDP growth is meaningless sinkees are not the main beneficiary.

Can Singapore change? Sure. But people will have to make sacrifices and from my interactions with friends and relatives I would say Singaporeans are far from ready and far from willing to make real change. What would make them willing to change? When things get worse. A LOT WORSE. It is when things are so bad that they are willing to sacrifice for the better that is when things will change. I shudder to think when that happens though.

The ground is ripe for an end to the PAP. Their blatant abuse of power and mismanagement of economic and social policies are now hitting home at heartlanders. That's why the PAP will be gone in 2016 if there are no split votes and they dare to hit the PAP with negative campaigning. You can't win an election if you play by the PAP rules.

I wonder why PAP has never brought up the maid issue when faced with criticism from the opposition about FTs and minimum wage. Challenge the detractors when they ask for minimum wage and less reliance on FTs with the issue "What about domestic maids". I won't be surprised if you start seeing the public support the PAP in fear that they might lose their maids or have to pay $10/hr x 18-24h x 26-30 per month ($4680-$7200) for each maid they have.

If it is a single issue, yeah, the PAP could win support. Good social and economic policies can convince the people that maids are not needed.

ginfreely · Nov 12, 2014

nayr69sg said:
I am not a PAP supporter.

the discussions you guys are having now and the points brought up were brought up back in 2004 when I was on this forum writing the same things.

At that time I was in the "evangelistic" phase thinking the more I write, the more I can show people the "truth" about PAP, the bad things about government etc etc.

The GE came and went. Nothing happened. I kept talking to friends, relatives thinking to myself, they don't know, if they know they will realize the truth and we can make things better.

One day my cousin told me off at a family dinner. You talk so much.....in the end there are 3 things you can DO

1. Take action and do something to make Singapore better. Join politics. Join grassroots. Be an activist.
2. Migrate to a place where things are how you want them to be.
3. Shut up.

I was taken aback for a while. Then I reflected on his words. I thought seriously about what Singapore's problems were and what some of the solutions might be. The more I thought about it, the more I realized the real truth. There was no point in getting hung up with the past mistakes of the government. It is done. How do you fix it? If you were put into power, elected to government how would you fix it? Would the people like the solution? Would they support the solution? I reached the conclusion that what I would propose would require sacrifices and the people would not support it. Singaporeans wanted things to be perfect everybody wanted their way. You can blame the PAP for doing that, you can say this and that about it. But the job at hand is not to continue being a cheerleader on the complaint bandwagon and evangelize. Real solutions might take a long time and lots of sacrifice. Who would want that? No one.

hence I chose option 2 and 3. I am now no longer living in Singapore and am very thankful for making that decision. Migrating was tough. very tough. Nothing like what people make it out to be. It is a real struggle at the beginning and required sacrifice and sweat. Mind you a lot of people talk about migrating, changing government etc. But it is all hot air and just talk. No action no sacrifice willing to be made.

I will tell you from the bottom of my heart that the day I believe Singapore might be able to emulate countries like Finland, Sweden and Switzerland is the day when most households no longer have maids.

It is a simple issue. Domestic maids. People can argue they don't want FTs in the face in the MRT, on the bus, at the shopping centre, at their workplace etc etc. They can argue that businesses should hire more locals, be willing to pay locals more etc etc.

But once you talk about domestic maids. They will say oh I work so long hours, no maid how to work? who will take care of my kids? Where got time to do housework? Why should I do housework when I can hire a maid to do it and spend the time doing housework earning more money at work?

All the above excuses the businessmen people criticize and the government they criticize for bringing in FTs can cite as well. There are essentially FTs in a very large proportion of Singapore households that they see EVERYDAY. Domestic Foreign Maids.

Are the number of domestic foreign maids dropping in Singapore? Have they all gone home? The first FTs that should go home should be the domestic maids if you ask me.

In all the countries Singapore emulates to be, few people have a 24h live in caregiver at home. It is reserved for the extremely wealthy who have huge mansions and do need a team of staff to maintain the property. Singaporeans live in tiny flats and apartments for the most part but they NEED maids.

I totally agree with leongsam. Most Singaporeans and the PAP actually are the perfect fit for each other. The ones who totally disagree and stand by their principles simply will be unable to live in Singapore and among other Singaporeans. The kiasu kiasee mentality, everybody is doing this and that so should do the same (read tuition classes for kids, enrichment classes, dance classes, mind gym classes etc), everyone has maid why not us?

Try not having a maid and see how many of your friends will frown and try to convince you to have a maid. Cos if you can live without a maid how come they cannot? They have to justify their actions by convincing you to do the same. Same with the kids classes. And many other things. I know this because I never had a maid after I got married and raised a family. We never sent out kids to all these crazy enrichment classes either.

For a while I read some people trying to convince others to migrate as well. Then you have those trying to portray those people who migrated as losers and quitters etc. everyone wants to justify their actions as the best, most correct etc. Insecurities.

Everyone should do what they feel is right for them. There is a way of life in Singapore that is unique. Is it right or wrong? There is no right or wrong. It just is. However, I do take issue when people criticize others for merely doing the same as them. (eg exploitation of cheap FT labor be it at home for housework or business, construction, janitor work, etc etc) That is something I have observed among many Singaporeans as I have illustrated above.

The massive influx of migration during the great financial crisis helped to prop the Singapore economy. Good or bad? Depends how you look at it.

Can Singapore change? Sure. But people will have to make sacrifices and from my interactions with friends and relatives I would say Singaporeans are far from ready and far from willing to make real change. What would make them willing to change? When things get worse. A LOT WORSE. It is when things are so bad that they are willing to sacrifice for the better that is when things will change. I shudder to think when that happens though.

I wonder why PAP has never brought up the maid issue when faced with criticism from the opposition about FTs and minimum wage. Challenge the detractors when they ask for minimum wage and less reliance on FTs with the issue "What about domestic maids". I won't be surprised if you start seeing the public support the PAP in fear that they might lose their maids or have to pay $10/hr x 18-24h x 26-30 per month ($4680-$7200) for each maid they have.

Just curious how many forumers here have maids at home? And how many know people who have maids at home? Maids are all FTs fundamentally and all these people benefit from the FT policy just like that.

I think your reasoning about maid is correct, however it should not be used as justification for Singaporeans to be replaced by FT. Becos you look at other countries like Msia, HK, Taiwan etc, they too have maids but you don't see their country government opening the floodgate for FT to takeover the locals jobs.

For example, I can see clearly the Msia govt does not open floodgate for local jobs to be taken by foreigners. Infact there are many foreign workers in JB but you see them only in some jobs, like waiters, factory workers, cleaners, etc, where they can't find enough local Msia workers. You don't see them in jobs like admin clerks, execs, sales, etc. I heard that even property agent is a protect job in JB that only Msians can get the licence. Compare this to Spore and you can see the stark difference. So do the Msia people have maids? Of course they do.

Now back to those angmoh countries, the angmoh don't hire maids becos it is expensive. I read before on expat wives being so happy to be posted to Spore as they enjoy hiring maids here. So it is not that angmoh is more equitable, they just had no choice due to high cost. Given a choice, they will hire maids too.

So if Singaporeans really have to make a choice between able to hire maid and able to keep their jobs - which other country citizens like Malaysians don't have to make such a choice due to their government protecting the locals jobs - Singaporeans will certainly choose to keep their jobs instead of hiring maids.

Another thing is for angmoh countries, besides fixed working hours and culture of going off on the dot, they also have no culture of taking care of elderly parents. Whereas some Singaporeans do need to hire maids to take care of aged parents while they work as Singapore nursing home charges are very expensive and there is no other alternative.

In other words, if the govt care for the citizens, whether have maids or not is not the issue. If the govt care for the people like the way of the angmoh, they will structure family friendly policies or the suitable support for people to get by with no maids. If the govt care for the people like the way of the Msia govt, they will protect the locals job and yet allow maids to be available.

The govt policies will affect the people way of living. If affordable maids are available, people who can afford will want to take advantage to hire. The same can be said of the PAP policies allowing Singaporean bosses to hire foreigners easily. Although we can blame the Singaporeans being at fault, ultimately it is the PAP govt fault to not have the correct policies to guard against foreigners being hired easily even when Singaporeans are available for the jobs. In any other country, like in Msia, I read about foreigners can't even be lorry driver as the employers can only hire Msians. So alot depends on the govt polices.

It is the same when people say we cannot blame the foreigners in Spore as they are brought in by govt and that we should blame the govt instead. So the same applies that we cannot blame the Singaporean bosses as the govt policies allowed them to hire foreigners easily and that we should blame the govt instead. However, of course in reality, we cannot blame but we will still blame the foreigners and the Singaporean bosses for the misery they caused to Singaporeans.

frenchbriefs · Nov 12, 2014

Bro u know why u do that?cause ur a merferking pussy,u want to fit in with the herd,the slightest resistance objection peer pressure from ur friends and relatives u bend immediately.ur like one of those Christians sinkies,u want to be cool,u want to shut ur eyes,face up towards heaven,sing kumbaya my lord and clap ur hands to the christian pop music.

U will never be like us,we are the intellectual rebels and outcasts,we shout fuck everybody and fuck u sinkies and fuck PAP.we fight for the underdogs and the unwanted and the

judging from everything u said,its so obvious u come from the atas and priviledged part of singapore society,lemme guess u and all ur relatives all stay in condos and landed property with the occasional 5 room hdb mansionette?the top 20% echelon of singapore society?ensonced in ur tiny bubble away from the rest of the 80% public housing dwelling peasants?all ur relatives telling u to get a maid,all ur relatives telling u to shut up and do nothing.of course the rich and elite would be happy with maintaining the status quo.according to cpf statistics,35% of singaporeans take home less than 2k a month pay each month,do this people look like the ones who would be employing maids and paying off a hdb mortgage and engaging a wife?THIRHTY FIVE FUCKING PERCENT.I live in the east side of singapore,iv seen many shopping centeres literally overtaken by maid agencies in the last 10 years,number of maid agencies i think have jumped by 1000%,has population of sinkaporeans increased so much in the last 10 years in the east side?NO BUT I CAN TELL U WHAT HAS INCREASED,THE NUMBER OF RICH SHITSKIN NATIONALS AND NUMBER OF CONDOMINIUM PROJECTS.

cue number two,u have alread migrated away from singapore,another sign of a sinkie who grew up atas and priviledged all his life.

cue number three,change when things get worse?alot worse?does that mean we have to wait for one of ur relatives' business to go bankrupt,to get cancer and having to sell his cars and house to pay for cancer medical bills and bankruptcy,suddenly he might realise what its like to live like ordinary sinkies?

nayr69sg said:
I am not a PAP supporter.

the discussions you guys are having now and the points brought up were brought up back in 2004 when I was on this forum writing the same things.

At that time I was in the "evangelistic" phase thinking the more I write, the more I can show people the "truth" about PAP, the bad things about government etc etc.

The GE came and went. Nothing happened. I kept talking to friends, relatives thinking to myself, they don't know, if they know they will realize the truth and we can make things better.

One day my cousin told me off at a family dinner. You talk so much.....in the end there are 3 things you can DO

1. Take action and do something to make Singapore better. Join politics. Join grassroots. Be an activist.
2. Migrate to a place where things are how you want them to be.
3. Shut up.

I was taken aback for a while. Then I reflected on his words. I thought seriously about what Singapore's problems were and what some of the solutions might be. The more I thought about it, the more I realized the real truth. There was no point in getting hung up with the past mistakes of the government. It is done. How do you fix it? If you were put into power, elected to government how would you fix it? Would the people like the solution? Would they support the solution? I reached the conclusion that what I would propose would require sacrifices and the people would not support it. Singaporeans wanted things to be perfect everybody wanted their way. You can blame the PAP for doing that, you can say this and that about it. But the job at hand is not to continue being a cheerleader on the complaint bandwagon and evangelize. Real solutions might take a long time and lots of sacrifice. Who would want that? No one.

hence I chose option 2 and 3. I am now no longer living in Singapore and am very thankful for making that decision. Migrating was tough. very tough. Nothing like what people make it out to be. It is a real struggle at the beginning and required sacrifice and sweat. Mind you a lot of people talk about migrating, changing government etc. But it is all hot air and just talk. No action no sacrifice willing to be made.

I will tell you from the bottom of my heart that the day I believe Singapore might be able to emulate countries like Finland, Sweden and Switzerland is the day when most households no longer have maids.

It is a simple issue. Domestic maids. People can argue they don't want FTs in the face in the MRT, on the bus, at the shopping centre, at their workplace etc etc. They can argue that businesses should hire more locals, be willing to pay locals more etc etc.

But once you talk about domestic maids. They will say oh I work so long hours, no maid how to work? who will take care of my kids? Where got time to do housework? Why should I do housework when I can hire a maid to do it and spend the time doing housework earning more money at work?

All the above excuses the businessmen people criticize and the government they criticize for bringing in FTs can cite as well. There are essentially FTs in a very large proportion of Singapore households that they see EVERYDAY. Domestic Foreign Maids.

Are the number of domestic foreign maids dropping in Singapore? Have they all gone home? The first FTs that should go home should be the domestic maids if you ask me.

In all the countries Singapore emulates to be, few people have a 24h live in caregiver at home. It is reserved for the extremely wealthy who have huge mansions and do need a team of staff to maintain the property. Singaporeans live in tiny flats and apartments for the most part but they NEED maids.

I totally agree with leongsam. Most Singaporeans and the PAP actually are the perfect fit for each other. The ones who totally disagree and stand by their principles simply will be unable to live in Singapore and among other Singaporeans. The kiasu kiasee mentality, everybody is doing this and that so should do the same (read tuition classes for kids, enrichment classes, dance classes, mind gym classes etc), everyone has maid why not us?

Try not having a maid and see how many of your friends will frown and try to convince you to have a maid. Cos if you can live without a maid how come they cannot? They have to justify their actions by convincing you to do the same. Same with the kids classes. And many other things. I know this because I never had a maid after I got married and raised a family. We never sent out kids to all these crazy enrichment classes either.

For a while I read some people trying to convince others to migrate as well. Then you have those trying to portray those people who migrated as losers and quitters etc. everyone wants to justify their actions as the best, most correct etc. Insecurities.

Everyone should do what they feel is right for them. There is a way of life in Singapore that is unique. Is it right or wrong? There is no right or wrong. It just is. However, I do take issue when people criticize others for merely doing the same as them. (eg exploitation of cheap FT labor be it at home for housework or business, construction, janitor work, etc etc) That is something I have observed among many Singaporeans as I have illustrated above.

The massive influx of migration during the great financial crisis helped to prop the Singapore economy. Good or bad? Depends how you look at it.

Can Singapore change? Sure. But people will have to make sacrifices and from my interactions with friends and relatives I would say Singaporeans are far from ready and far from willing to make real change. What would make them willing to change? When things get worse. A LOT WORSE. It is when things are so bad that they are willing to sacrifice for the better that is when things will change. I shudder to think when that happens though.

I wonder why PAP has never brought up the maid issue when faced with criticism from the opposition about FTs and minimum wage. Challenge the detractors when they ask for minimum wage and less reliance on FTs with the issue "What about domestic maids". I won't be surprised if you start seeing the public support the PAP in fear that they might lose their maids or have to pay $10/hr x 18-24h x 26-30 per month ($4680-$7200) for each maid they have.

Just curious how many forumers here have maids at home? And how many know people who have maids at home? Maids are all FTs fundamentally and all these people benefit from the FT policy just like that.

nayr69sg · Nov 12, 2014

winnipegjets said:
Most sinkees have done #3. Those who can afford it, took #2. A few idealistic ones like Roy and HHH take #1.
It is the #1 group that is going to change sinkapore ...that group will grow to a significant mass to bring down the PAP.

If sinkees were told that they pay 50 percent tax and in return, they get free education, free healthcare, unemployment insurance up to 2 years, welfare, free daycare and pension, do you not think the majority of sinkees will buy into it?

It is what you are selling. For decades we have being sold that capitalist bs ...that everyone can be rich if they work hard. Sinkees work like dogs and saw some wealth in the early days. As more sinkees join the retirement rank, they started to realize that we have been conned because there was nothing left in their CPF after paying off their overpriced HDB flats. And then they fear getting sick as the medical cost will kill them faster than the sickness.

Not many people can do #2, so most do #3.
If PAP arrange for anyone who wants to leave to go to Canada, I bet you can see at least 50 percent of sinkees taking up the offer.

Hi Winnepegjets,

Actually when I wrote that post I was replying to your post specifically and not to points raised by the other forumers here. So for those who felt I did not address or rebutt their points raised, I apologize.

Winnepegjets, are you in Winnepeg? Nice that the jets went back home a couple years ago eh?

You have a point about saying If PAP arranges for anyone who wants to leave to go to Canada there will be many shouting that they want to go.

But here is what will happen after the shouting dies down.

They will ask, what is the weather like in Canada? Cold? -20? -30? -40? Wah so cold! Sure or not? Can I go Australia instead?

Those who are ok with the weather will say - so when I go there what can I work as? I am an engineer. Can I be an engineer there? got job for me? PAP can arrange job for me? The answer will be no. You have to retake exams all over again before you can work as engineer. Jobs you have to apply on your own. Same for all professionals. Lawyers, doctors, accountants etc. You have to take local North American exams to qualify. Anyone can google and verify this point. Most immigrants will have to start off in entry level jobs eg general laborers, janitors, landscaping, fast food workers etc. and even those jobs are hard to get into because employers will say you are overqualified and at high risk of leaving once you attain your qualifications and get a better job. So why train you?

and also no maid, then who will wash toilet? Who will cook? Who will look after children? Who will vaccuum and mop floors? The house so big how to clean? Car wash $9? Wah lau so expensive. House cleaning services cost $800 a month for cleaning once a week? Wah lau so expensive!

And then the people will say PAP never take care of them, want to send them away to a cold like hell, godforsaken place with no ready jobs, ask them from engineer or lawyer or doctor or manager or analyst or nurse or administrative officer or teacher to work as factory worker, fast food server, janitor, gardener etc. Throw away their educational status. what kind of stupid government is that?

So my reply is essentially, it's not the government, it's the mindset of the people.

I don't know how it was for you when you migrated Winnepegjets, but when I moved to Canada in 2010 I did my homework and immediately started applying for entry level jobs. Knowing that trying for higher level jobs required certificates and local qualifications which I did not have. So no point wasting time. I interviewed at Macdonalds and was rejected. "I don't want a doctor flipping burgers at my joint" they told me.

I landed a job at a factory assembling jambs and sills on PVC window frames. Was on the assembly line and also doubled as their OHSA (occupational health and safety act) go to person because of my medical background. The manager saved money cos he paid me laborer salary and did not have to hire an OHSA person to sit around in the office doing nothing most of the time. Having said that my starting salary was $16/hr which was higher than some of the other more experienced workers. I had a good time there. The work was simple, and low stress in my mind. Compared to the hustle and bustle in medicine it was a piece of cake.

I wonder how many doctors and atas people from Singapore would come to Canada and start off in entry level jobs like this? I know a few families from Singapore who did the same and am good friends with them. They would be what people in Singapore would consider "from atas society" but are very humble and willing to sacrifice for their children's futures and start all over again. If you speak to the Singaporeans on the street, the masses who say they are not the atas and all.....the irony is that the ones with the most "atas like" attitudes are these people who are not atas.

So while I agree that if the PAP were to arrange for people to go to Canada, there will be many shouting they want to go, the reality is that the majority will end up complaining and cursing the PAP more and NEVER GO.

I am sure leongsam will agree with me on this.

JohnTan · Nov 12, 2014

Would God be apologising to Roy, just as He did to Kong Hee?

eErotica69 · Nov 13, 2014

frenchbriefs said:
u know whats the problem?the problem is not with Roy or PAP,it doesnt matter what they do

the problem is 99% of Sinkies are too self centered and balless......to quote our fellow sammyboy Uglyloser,they are too preoccupied with themselves and at the same time too balless to do anything to change the status quo and rectify whats wrong.

and somehow its not Sinkies fault,we grew up in a island where everyone is only concerned with themselves,me,me,me,i have to be number one,i have to get ahead of others,as long as i win,it doesnt matter who dies or loses.

Like Uglyloser said,its not just in politics,even among relatives and family members,theres alot of fighting among each other and competition among each other,to see who is better who is more accomplished who is smarter and richer.the only true family unity i see is among the malays,sinkies chinks tend to be more divisive and self centered.which is why LKY was so afraid of the malays,he had to break them up,scatter them all over the island and introduce some retarded grc representative voting.to wrestle power away from the malays and break them up.

Look at tiongs for example,another form of unity.One for all all for one,u die i die we die together,one strike was all it took,PAP and smrt straight away stood up and listened,conditions were changed across the board,salaries were raised,grievances were addressed immediately.sure some of them got deported but thats only cause of the bullshit laws.let me tell u if their numbers were bigger,like say 5 thousand of tiong bus drivers,PAP would be unable to do anything.do what?deport 1000 of them?cripple their operations?jail them?trial them?

Instead we have some jokers who say we should not protest or riot in this country,we should go thru the apporpriate channels to communicate with PAP?and end up with a pissing and dick fighting contest with that gay loong that goes nowhere?

So would you like to tell us you are that 99% or the 1%?

If 1%, please protest outside Parliament and not KPKB behind you PC, you loser!

winnipegjets · Nov 13, 2014

nayr69sg said:
Hi Winnepegjets,

Actually when I wrote that post I was replying to your post specifically and not to points raised by the other forumers here. So for those who felt I did not address or rebutt their points raised, I apologize.

I always enjoy an exchange of views, free of personal attacks.

Winnepegjets, are you in Winnepeg? Nice that the jets went back home a couple years ago eh?

I am everywhere ...sinkapore, shanghai, winnipeg and melbourne. :biggrin:

You have a point about saying If PAP arranges for anyone who wants to leave to go to Canada there will be many shouting that they want to go.
But here is what will happen after the shouting dies down.
They will ask, what is the weather like in Canada? Cold? -20? -30? -40? Wah so cold! Sure or not? Can I go Australia instead?
Those who are ok with the weather will say - so when I go there what can I work as? I am an engineer. Can I be an engineer there? got job for me? PAP can arrange job for me?

You have gotten too cynical lah. Those who leave will have figured out that Canada is 10X better than sinkapore.
Look at the Hongkees and Ah Tiongs in Canada ...initially, they are kpkb about Canada ....after a few years, they have just fit in. I believe the sinkees will do likewise.

The answer will be no. You have to retake exams all over again before you can work as engineer. Jobs you have to apply on your own. Same for all professionals. Lawyers, doctors, accountants etc. You have to take local North American exams to qualify. Anyone can google and verify this point. Most immigrants will have to start off in entry level jobs eg general laborers, janitors, landscaping, fast food workers etc. and even those jobs are hard to get into because employers will say you are overqualified and at high risk of leaving once you attain your qualifications and get a better job. So why train you?

It is so much easier now for immigrants as previous immigrants are now in position of hiring. I have seen many immigrants that have the language skill move into good paying first jobs. Those who are languishing are those who are unwilling to adapt or lack language skills and awareness of cultural mores. Immigrants who can't find jobs in Toronto or Vancouver should head to Alberta and Sasketchewan.

For those in the professional trades, the requalification route is a necessary evil. It is easier to qualify in the US than in Canada; this is one black mark against Canada. Aside, I hope you have not given up trying to be a doctor. Persevere and you will make it. I will swing by to drink kopi with you when you become a Canadian doctor. :biggrin:

and also no maid, then who will wash toilet? Who will cook? Who will look after children? Who will vaccuum and mop floors? The house so big how to clean? Car wash $9? Wah lau so expensive. House cleaning services cost $800 a month for cleaning once a week? Wah lau so expensive!

Don't doubt people's ability to adapt.

And then the people will say PAP never take care of them, want to send them away to a cold like hell, godforsaken place with no ready jobs, ask them from engineer or lawyer or doctor or manager or analyst or nurse or administrative officer or teacher to work as factory worker, fast food server, janitor, gardener etc. Throw away their educational status. what kind of stupid government is that?

Those people who can't adapt when given a free pass to Canada can die lah. I strongly think that this group will be a minority.

So my reply is essentially, it's not the government, it's the mindset of the people.

The mindset of sinkees have been molded by the government.

I don't know how it was for you when you migrated Winnepegjets, but when I moved to Canada in 2010 I did my homework and immediately started applying for entry level jobs. Knowing that trying for higher level jobs required certificates and local qualifications which I did not have. So no point wasting time. I interviewed at Macdonalds and was rejected. "I don't want a doctor flipping burgers at my joint" they told me.

I landed a job at a factory assembling jambs and sills on PVC window frames. Was on the assembly line and also doubled as their OHSA (occupational health and safety act) go to person because of my medical background. The manager saved money cos he paid me laborer salary and did not have to hire an OHSA person to sit around in the office doing nothing most of the time. Having said that my starting salary was $16/hr which was higher than some of the other more experienced workers. I had a good time there. The work was simple, and low stress in my mind. Compared to the hustle and bustle in medicine it was a piece of cake.

If every immigrant has your kind of attitude and preparation, they will succeed.

I wonder how many doctors and atas people from Singapore would come to Canada and start off in entry level jobs like this? I know a few families from Singapore who did the same and am good friends with them. They would be what people in Singapore would consider "from atas society" but are very humble and willing to sacrifice for their children's futures and start all over again. If you speak to the Singaporeans on the street, the masses who say they are not the atas and all.....the irony is that the ones with the most "atas like" attitudes are these people who are not atas.

This is one reason I don't hang out with sinkees when I was in Winnipeg. I cannot tahan their attitude. But those who stayed on are different ...sinkapore is no longer their home and they only visit because of family.

So while I agree that if the PAP were to arrange for people to go to Canada, there will be many shouting they want to go, the reality is that the majority will end up complaining and cursing the PAP more and NEVER GO.

And I am willing to wager that at least 50 percent of those that arrive on the free pass will stay on happily.

I am sure leongsam will agree with me on this.

Why leongsam? Leongsam has no leong sum (cantonese) :biggrin:

frenchbriefs · Nov 13, 2014

eErotica69 said:
So would you like to tell us you are that 99% or the 1%?

If 1%, please protest outside Parliament and not KPKB behind you PC, you loser!

whats the point?even if the 1% protest and stand outside the parliament,they will still be arrested and shunned by the media because 99% sinkies are balless.

Mudland at least u see 50,000 man protest and 49% vote opposition.

da dick · Nov 13, 2014

Belgarath said:
I can't understand why you are so harsh and biased. He may be melodramatic and unwise to the ways to the world, but certainly does not deserve to be called an idiot.

Because of his efforts, the govt is holding more talks on how to improve the CPF, to placate the voters.

lol. talk cock like nationalist conversation ah? are you that young?

hofmann · Nov 13, 2014

da dick said:
lol. talk cock like nationalist conversation ah? are you that young?

Troll. :kma:

da dick · Nov 13, 2014

hofmann said:
Troll. :kma:

ask yourself that question, noob puppet.

"Leongsam is going to be a PAP candidate for the Marine Parade GRC. A star team of Tin Pei Lin, Kong Hee, Sun Ho and Vivian with Leongsam is unbeatable."

if leong sammy run for MP GRC, i will support him no matter which party he join. i rather have a fairly clever bastard lord over me, than a idiot bastard who throw away our money on FT monkeys and burma.

Leongsam · Nov 13, 2014

frenchbriefs said:
Finland 5.3 million pop,47,000 USD per capital,258 billion gdp,Gini coefficient 0.26
Sweden 9.8 million pop,58,000 USD per capital,550 billion gdp,Gini coefficient 0.26
Denmark 5.6 million pop,58,000 USD per capital,330 billion gdp,Gini coefficient 0.24
New zealand 4.4 million pop,41,000 USD per capital,180 billion gdp,Gini coefficient 0.33
Singapore 5.3 million pop,55,000 USD per capital,290 billion gdp,GINI COEFFICIENT 0.48

I believe that the higher the gini coefficient the better. It's a far better reflection of the reality. That is why I am such an admirer of the Singapore system.

When the gini coefficient is artificially reduced by robbing those who are capable and rewarding those who are lazy, the country goes into an inexorable spiral towards mediocrity as is the case in much of today's Europe.

Leongsam · Nov 13, 2014

winnipegjets said:
In NZ, most people are house owners and they don't need to spend their lifetime to pay off the mortgage.

NZ housing affordability has reached crisis point. Everyone is talking about it but nothing is being done about it.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11342253

The grass is not greener on the other side of the fence.

Leongsam · Nov 13, 2014

Papsmearer said:
Singapore is a socialist state stupid. From the PAP website.

Yeah yeah and North Korea is democratic. :rolleyes:

http://korea-dpr.com/

DPR Of Korea

The Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a genuine workers' state in which all the people are completely liberated from exploitation and oppression. The workers, peasants, soldiers and intellectuals are the true masters of their destiny and are in a unique position to defend their interests.

If you actually believe stuff that political parties spew on their websites, you're even dumber than I first thought.

frenchbriefs · Nov 13, 2014

Leongsam said:
I believe that the higher the gini coefficient the better. It's a far better reflection of the reality. That is why I am such an admirer of the Singapore system.

When the gini coefficient is artificially reduced by robbing those who are capable and rewarding those who are lazy, the country goes into an inexorable spiral towards mediocrity as is the case in much of today's Europe.

in that case why dont u move to africa?or brazil?why stay in australia and new zealand?go to namibia,the gini coefficient there is 0.7.a perfect representation of what ur ideal reality should be.0.7 means almost all the wealth are concentrated in a few and 99% of them are broke.

frenchbriefs · Nov 13, 2014

da dick said:
ask yourself that question, noob puppet.

"Leongsam is going to be a PAP candidate for the Marine Parade GRC. A star team of Tin Pei Lin, Kong Hee, Sun Ho and Vivian with Leongsam is unbeatable."

if leong sammy run for MP GRC, i will support him no matter which party he join. i rather have a fairly clever bastard lord over me, than a idiot bastard who throw away our money on FT monkeys and burma.

fairly clever like LKY?even then fairly clever in what?talking nonsense and not knowing what hes saying?LKY sure as hell aint a economist or a good policy maker thats for sure.

Leongsam · Nov 13, 2014

frenchbriefs said:
in that case why dont u move to africa?or brazil?why stay in australia and new zealand?go to namibia,the gini coefficient there is 0.7.a perfect representation of what ur ideal reality should be.0.7 means almost all the wealth are concentrated in a few and 99% of them are broke.

Because I couldn't care two hoots about the Gini coefficient. It doesn't affect me personally so I don't factor it into my choice of residency.

frenchbriefs · Nov 13, 2014

Leongsam said:
Because I couldn't care two hoots about the Gini coefficient. It doesn't affect me personally so I don't factor it into my choice of residency.

thats the problem,u condone socialism,which is against ur ethics.u comingle with socialist neighbours and friends.why?for 20 years too that means u been supporting and voting their socialist policies in for a long long time.u watching ur people benefit from socialism/communism.u pay taxes to a socialist country,ur tax dollars get used to pay a bunch of lazy ass good for nothings.uv been lieing to urself for a long long time,its time to come back to singapore and be true to urself.

Leongsam · Nov 13, 2014

frenchbriefs said:
thats the problem,u condone socialism,which is against ur ethics.u comingle with socialist neighbours and friends.why?for 20 years too that means u been supporting and voting their socialist policies in for a long long time.u watching ur people benefit from socialism/communism.u pay taxes to a socialist country,ur tax dollars get used to pay a bunch of lazy ass good for nothings.uv been lieing to urself for a long long time,its time to come back to singapore and be true to urself.

I pay no more taxes in NZ than I did in Singapore. My effective tax direct tax rate here is less than 7%.

However, I can only achieve this because I am self employed. If I was a salaried worker, NZ would be the last place on earth I'd want to be earning a living in.

Roy ngerng: I am tired and i do not know if i can still carry on the fight

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