http://www.tremeritus.com/2014/09/25/govt-is-pushing-our-elderly-into-hard-labour/
[Following are comments taken from the article, 'Better for elderly to work than sit at home and wait to die', rebutting the author's points]
Cass:
September 23, 2014 at 8:52 am* (Quote)*
1. No one will feel aggrieved if an elderly person chooses to continue working into his / her twilight years but the situation in Singapore is different. The old and infirmed are working out of necessity because they cannot access their CPF savings sufficiently to meet the rising costs of living in Singapore.
2. The government is not protecting jobs for the elderly but is instead pushing them into hard labour that even for the young and able bodied, is tedious. Have you seen old and bent elderly folks shuffling around painfully to wipe tables and wash the toilets in public places? Have you spoken to them? Do you honestly think they WANT to do that because they are bored at home?
3. Define “decent living” for the elderly please. If you are sincere, then it must be living with dignity and aging with grace. What part of an elderly cleaning after your shit is dignified and graceful?
Say what you may but it is a fact PAP has failed Singaporeans. The elderly do not have enough to meet escalating medical costs and food costs. High rents are causing businesses to increase prices of goods and services while at the same time turning to cheap foreign labour and pushing Singaporeans out of good jobs. High CPF saving rates during our working years have failed to provide a reasonable nest egg to retire on. The government has gone wrong somewhere, you just need to open your eyes, put your hand on your heart and scrutinize the facts.
Retiree:
September 23, 2014 at 9:06 am* (Quote)
My simple question to the writer is: would you allow your elderly parents in their 70s and 80s to work as cleaners in hawker centres or food courts? A cleaner’s job may seam to be easy for young men or women in their 30 s or 40 s but for elderly in their advancing years is tough and back breaking! just ask those elderly cleaners , if you happen to meet them in hawker centres, whether they enjoy working in such jobs if they do not have to?
Most of these elderly are forced by circumstances to work as cleaners: singles, no children to depend on, their children have their own families and earn too little to help. High cost of healthcare, need money for treatment or see doctor, high cost of living etc etc.
In most other countries with govt support and help, these elderly need not have to slog in their twilight years to survive, they should be supported to enjoy whatever little time they have to do things they want other than work till they drop dead!
The question is why our govt can’t do that which most countries are doing? We have ministers grumbling their families’ standard of living will be affected when their salaries were reduced in 2011 (though even with that reduction they are still getting millions and still earn the highest salaries in the world for law makers) and mind you they are MPs who are supposed to serve and take care of citizens including those elderly who are earning a few hundred dollars a month as cleaners.
We remembered that VB, then Community and development minister even turned down request from MP Lily Neo to grant a mere $30 increase for those on govt, handouts when cost of living is so high. Some MPs give the excuse that the majority of these elderly cleaners have self pride and do not want to depend on govt’s help, sure, it must be a joke?
hhh:
September 23, 2014 at 9:15 am* (Quote)
I have seen so many of these cleaners above 70, they are mostly unwell or some form of illness, but they don’t have a choice! Don’t talk bullshit about staying at home waiting to pass time or waiting to die.
Our social and subsidies are all pathetic, it’s only 3% of GDP, even the latest PGP is a complete farce. What you expect the poor to do??? They need $$$ for food on table, you really Vivian B is going to deliver food to poor or have food in the restaurant?
At advanced age, not everyone can work! They need to rest more than working 12 hours as cleaners and be paid so cheaply! The irony is there is an 91 year old man who does not go to work but still paid! You think our old folks have such privilege???
Even PRCs are laughing at this, their old folks enjoying twilight by drinking tea and exercise but ours slave to their deaths!!! You know there are many old folks who died while on the job till the last breath??? Remember the old sick lady at Dhoby Ghaut???
Have a heart, save Singapore from these millionaire parasite leeches by voting them out and give our old and poor dignity in their old advanced age!!!!
Ace:
September 23, 2014 at 10:14 am* (Quote)
First of all, you said that if government let in more foreigners in then, these old people would lose their jobs. I don’t think it is just the old people but most people unless you have some “connections”. I do not know who you are but why are you so confident that you will not lose your job?
On the other hand, if the government does not allow foreigners into the cleaning industry, the wages of our old cleaners might be much higher. The effect is that all other wages may rise in tandem. Most of these old people work because they HAVE to work NOT because they LIKE to work. There is a BIG difference. If the wages of all occupation rises, the children of these old people may earn enough to support them and some may choose not to work.
In life, everything is about choice. Why do you want your children to get good grades in the major exams? CHOICE isn’t it? If your child does well for PSLE, he has a CHOICE to go to RI, RGS or one of the elite schools but you may not want to. If your results are bad, then you got no CHOICE and whatever school that you are assign to, you have to accept.
The second flaw in your thinking is that old people have nothing better to do. Well, I know many old people and they have many things that they WANT to do but they NEED to work because of our high cost of living but low wages. There is a big difference between WANT and NEED.
Your third assumption is that training improves lives of these people. This is only half right. Proper equipment must be provided in order to achieve this and customers need to be patient. For example, if you train a cleaner to use proper chemicals and technique for cleaning but the employers refuses to invest in such equipments, how will it help. In addition, doing a better cleaning job may mean more time taken which might actually reduce productivity. Will these people still keep their job? Can you give specific suggestion how training can help the lives of these old cleaners?
Finally, cleaning job is not the only thing that old people can do. However, the problem will not just go away unless someone high enough decides that they do not want old people to be cleaners and then believes that there should be better and higher paying jobs for them. Then start to develop industries that will hire them. One of the industry I can think of is the “nanny” industry. These old people have brought up children of their own and are capable to do this job. They will be paid higher, the job is less taxing and the young gets to interact with the old. Training here would be useful to improve their skill and lives.
Wake up.
Time for CHANGE!
[Following are comments taken from the article, 'Better for elderly to work than sit at home and wait to die', rebutting the author's points]
Cass:
September 23, 2014 at 8:52 am* (Quote)*
1. No one will feel aggrieved if an elderly person chooses to continue working into his / her twilight years but the situation in Singapore is different. The old and infirmed are working out of necessity because they cannot access their CPF savings sufficiently to meet the rising costs of living in Singapore.
2. The government is not protecting jobs for the elderly but is instead pushing them into hard labour that even for the young and able bodied, is tedious. Have you seen old and bent elderly folks shuffling around painfully to wipe tables and wash the toilets in public places? Have you spoken to them? Do you honestly think they WANT to do that because they are bored at home?
3. Define “decent living” for the elderly please. If you are sincere, then it must be living with dignity and aging with grace. What part of an elderly cleaning after your shit is dignified and graceful?
Say what you may but it is a fact PAP has failed Singaporeans. The elderly do not have enough to meet escalating medical costs and food costs. High rents are causing businesses to increase prices of goods and services while at the same time turning to cheap foreign labour and pushing Singaporeans out of good jobs. High CPF saving rates during our working years have failed to provide a reasonable nest egg to retire on. The government has gone wrong somewhere, you just need to open your eyes, put your hand on your heart and scrutinize the facts.
Retiree:
September 23, 2014 at 9:06 am* (Quote)
My simple question to the writer is: would you allow your elderly parents in their 70s and 80s to work as cleaners in hawker centres or food courts? A cleaner’s job may seam to be easy for young men or women in their 30 s or 40 s but for elderly in their advancing years is tough and back breaking! just ask those elderly cleaners , if you happen to meet them in hawker centres, whether they enjoy working in such jobs if they do not have to?
Most of these elderly are forced by circumstances to work as cleaners: singles, no children to depend on, their children have their own families and earn too little to help. High cost of healthcare, need money for treatment or see doctor, high cost of living etc etc.
In most other countries with govt support and help, these elderly need not have to slog in their twilight years to survive, they should be supported to enjoy whatever little time they have to do things they want other than work till they drop dead!
The question is why our govt can’t do that which most countries are doing? We have ministers grumbling their families’ standard of living will be affected when their salaries were reduced in 2011 (though even with that reduction they are still getting millions and still earn the highest salaries in the world for law makers) and mind you they are MPs who are supposed to serve and take care of citizens including those elderly who are earning a few hundred dollars a month as cleaners.
We remembered that VB, then Community and development minister even turned down request from MP Lily Neo to grant a mere $30 increase for those on govt, handouts when cost of living is so high. Some MPs give the excuse that the majority of these elderly cleaners have self pride and do not want to depend on govt’s help, sure, it must be a joke?
hhh:
September 23, 2014 at 9:15 am* (Quote)
I have seen so many of these cleaners above 70, they are mostly unwell or some form of illness, but they don’t have a choice! Don’t talk bullshit about staying at home waiting to pass time or waiting to die.
Our social and subsidies are all pathetic, it’s only 3% of GDP, even the latest PGP is a complete farce. What you expect the poor to do??? They need $$$ for food on table, you really Vivian B is going to deliver food to poor or have food in the restaurant?
At advanced age, not everyone can work! They need to rest more than working 12 hours as cleaners and be paid so cheaply! The irony is there is an 91 year old man who does not go to work but still paid! You think our old folks have such privilege???
Even PRCs are laughing at this, their old folks enjoying twilight by drinking tea and exercise but ours slave to their deaths!!! You know there are many old folks who died while on the job till the last breath??? Remember the old sick lady at Dhoby Ghaut???
Have a heart, save Singapore from these millionaire parasite leeches by voting them out and give our old and poor dignity in their old advanced age!!!!
Ace:
September 23, 2014 at 10:14 am* (Quote)
First of all, you said that if government let in more foreigners in then, these old people would lose their jobs. I don’t think it is just the old people but most people unless you have some “connections”. I do not know who you are but why are you so confident that you will not lose your job?
On the other hand, if the government does not allow foreigners into the cleaning industry, the wages of our old cleaners might be much higher. The effect is that all other wages may rise in tandem. Most of these old people work because they HAVE to work NOT because they LIKE to work. There is a BIG difference. If the wages of all occupation rises, the children of these old people may earn enough to support them and some may choose not to work.
In life, everything is about choice. Why do you want your children to get good grades in the major exams? CHOICE isn’t it? If your child does well for PSLE, he has a CHOICE to go to RI, RGS or one of the elite schools but you may not want to. If your results are bad, then you got no CHOICE and whatever school that you are assign to, you have to accept.
The second flaw in your thinking is that old people have nothing better to do. Well, I know many old people and they have many things that they WANT to do but they NEED to work because of our high cost of living but low wages. There is a big difference between WANT and NEED.
Your third assumption is that training improves lives of these people. This is only half right. Proper equipment must be provided in order to achieve this and customers need to be patient. For example, if you train a cleaner to use proper chemicals and technique for cleaning but the employers refuses to invest in such equipments, how will it help. In addition, doing a better cleaning job may mean more time taken which might actually reduce productivity. Will these people still keep their job? Can you give specific suggestion how training can help the lives of these old cleaners?
Finally, cleaning job is not the only thing that old people can do. However, the problem will not just go away unless someone high enough decides that they do not want old people to be cleaners and then believes that there should be better and higher paying jobs for them. Then start to develop industries that will hire them. One of the industry I can think of is the “nanny” industry. These old people have brought up children of their own and are capable to do this job. They will be paid higher, the job is less taxing and the young gets to interact with the old. Training here would be useful to improve their skill and lives.
Wake up.
Time for CHANGE!
