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PAP gives US Chip maker USD$822 million tax savings, and than they move out!!
- Thread starter Papsmearer
- Start date
Let me answer this regard the building or factory.
Is a lease hold land. Just like HDB.
Normally factory lease hold 10~30 year. After 30 year is ZERO value because need to return to SLA in bare land(to be existing land before building) or agree with SLA just let the empty building SLA take over.
Majority Sinkie just don't understand KPKB!
other benefits of an mnc investing in sg but enjoying tax breaks (tax breaks are just incentives to draw them in; they are write-off's) are....
1. technology transfer, not just in hardware and software, but in knowledge of the workforce
2. tech sector best practice
3. corporate governance, american ang mo style especially silicon valley flavor (great lessons for sg businesses and gov)
4. talent recruiting, especially feedback to local poly's about in-depth courses and curriculum for students (potential hires for tech sector)
5. collaboration in manufacturing processes and techniques (sinkies contribute ideas and methods of intellectual property value to the venture and become innovative over time)
i know of several broadcom employees from sg poly's who are transferred from sg to the valley's hq and r&d facilities, and they do very well as part of the system-on-chip (soc) design teams. those involved in very advanced soc designs are poached by apple, qualcomm, intel, ti, samsung. all these have r&d teams building the next gen soc's in silicon valley. and google has just gotten into the act. ultimately, these very talented displaced sinkies will benefit sg with their families still in sg.
1. technology transfer, not just in hardware and software, but in knowledge of the workforce
2. tech sector best practice
3. corporate governance, american ang mo style especially silicon valley flavor (great lessons for sg businesses and gov)
4. talent recruiting, especially feedback to local poly's about in-depth courses and curriculum for students (potential hires for tech sector)
5. collaboration in manufacturing processes and techniques (sinkies contribute ideas and methods of intellectual property value to the venture and become innovative over time)
i know of several broadcom employees from sg poly's who are transferred from sg to the valley's hq and r&d facilities, and they do very well as part of the system-on-chip (soc) design teams. those involved in very advanced soc designs are poached by apple, qualcomm, intel, ti, samsung. all these have r&d teams building the next gen soc's in silicon valley. and google has just gotten into the act. ultimately, these very talented displaced sinkies will benefit sg with their families still in sg.
Yep...EDB PIONEER STATUS GRANT .... ie tax exempt does not have conditions requiring min number of Sinkies to hire. That is why I always tell people PAP has sold Singapore ... Fuck Pap
other benefits of an mnc investing in sg but enjoying tax breaks (tax breaks are just incentives to draw them in; they are write-off's) are....
1. technology transfer, not just in hardware and software, but in knowledge of the workforce
2. tech sector best practice
3. corporate governance, american ang mo style especially silicon valley flavor (great lessons for sg businesses and gov)
4. talent recruiting, especially feedback to local poly's about in-depth courses and curriculum for students (potential hires for tech sector)
5. collaboration in manufacturing processes and techniques (sinkies contribute ideas and methods of intellectual property value to the venture and become innovative over time)
i know of several broadcom employees from sg poly's who are transferred from sg to the valley's hq and r&d facilities, and they do very well as part of the system-on-chip (soc) design teams. those involved in very advanced soc designs are poached by apple, qualcomm, intel, ti, samsung. all these have r&d teams building the next gen soc's in silicon valley. and google has just gotten into the act. ultimately, these very talented displaced sinkies will benefit sg with their families still in sg.
what technology transfer did Broadcom do in this case? They should have been forced to do a JV with a local sinkie company. At least, you can get some tech transfer that way, and perhaps put sinkies in mid and upper management, in addition to having veto power to prevent the company from moving to Ireland.
So, in your example of sinkie poly students get trained in sinkie, get work experience and skill set in Broadcom, but instead of staying in singapore so that they can benefit the country with their experienced, they are lured to silicon valley to work for some US tech company and hence contribute to US society, pay taxes to the US govt. etc. And this is a good thing?
I know of this pioneer status grant. Its fucking bullshit. U should see who are all the EDB country directors posted overseas. They are sons and daughters of PAP elites, cronies, etc. They are just there to recruit MNCs to singapore, and try to partner them up with Daddy's company back home.
there is at least a respectable level of technology transfer. in this case, because sg provides the manufacturing base, broadcom transfers engineering and manufacturing know how to the plant in sg, and the local supply chain and contractors providing components, parts, support and services to the plant benefit from that know how. of course, there are nda's being signed, but the know how stays with the work force. and if any local engineer were to start their own enterprise in sub-contract work, the expertise would be learned and retained. for example, making soc's with 16,000 queues or schedulers with reconfigurable buffers calls for deep engineering expertise and manufacturing prowess as compared to older model soc's with 4,000 queues and fixed size buffers. there's skill and expertise enhancement. that's tech transfer in knowledge.
the top sinkie technicians and engineers sent to the valley for state of the art design and development have families in sg. while many of them bring immediate family members (spouse and kids) to the bay area, parents and siblings tend to stay put in sg. money is remitted, and in cases where valley worker strikes the proverbial lotto by making huge gains on their stock options and become instant millionaires, that money trickles down to sg too. some make their millions and strike out on their own, creating businesses and enterprise. these are the ones who don't forget sg, and they travel back frequently and contribute amply to the sg economy. for example, i return to sg for personal reasons at least twice a year on sq business now that i can afford it, and when i'm in sg, i spend. i'm even contemplating buying a vacation home in sg and reinvesting in sg with idle cash sitting in u.s. accounts earning peanuts. that spare cash is liquidity for impulse purchases of property or other investments. and i have cash stashed in sg banks, just to earn sgd appreciation against the usd. there are many valley ex-sinkies who park their cash in sg after retirement. most of them purchase properties and rent them out.
Good what! The Sinkies can earn high pay, drive BMWs, live in condos...etc
U yourself have shot your own argument to pieces. If EDB has been so successful in attracting tech companies like Broadcom into singapore (and I know they have attracted many of them) with the accompanying tech transfer and all those other knowledge and expertise that you say, than why haven't singapore already developed its own tech industry such that people like you do not need to relocate to Silicon valley and spend money on the US economy with your car and housing purchases, etc. This is what Taiwan and South Korea did and to a large degree, China is doing now. In the past, Taiwan and S Korea attracted MNCs to set up plants and do tech transfers and all those other things you mentioned. Their govt's goal was to eventually developed their own industry to compete with the western companies. Now you have ACER, Samsung, etc These are companies that in the past would never have existed if they did not learn or steal from the western companies.
Silicon valley is full of Indians and PRCs running around (mostly indians) because they do not have the equivalent of Acer or Samsung in their own country. U don't see many koreans or tawianese in silicon valley for the simple reason they are working for tech firms in their own country. Indians have a reason, their country is fucked up and for them to develop a company even half as good as Samsung is beyond them. PRCs have an excuse too as they are trying to catch up after years of backwardness. But what is singapore's excuse? After 40 years of EDB attracting many tech companies like Broadcom to singapore, we still don't have any recognized brand in the world (unless u count Creative Labs sound blaster). Why are u even working there? where is the singapore equivalent? what is the point of giving all these companies billions of $ in tax holidays when we don't even develop the industry. What shit trickle down effect is this? Its much better to spend the money in-country than in the US and "trickle" down shit. Why don't u just say that 20% or less of Broadcom employees are singaporeans and the rest are FTs that receive pay and send their money to their home countries. where is the benefit to singapore in this?
Lets call this a failure, as it should be. All the other 5 tigers of Asian economy have their world recognized brand names. taiwan has Acer, Korea has Samsung, hongKong has HSBC, etc what has singapore got? shit!! Yeo hiap seng? hardly.
the purpose of attracting high tech manufacturing into sg is mainly to boost high value manufacturing output (in terms of per capita gdp), and in addition to the primary objective, jobs of higher value are created. it's vacuous to imagine mnc's relocating their r&d and ipr assets lock, stock and barrel into sg. what is hoped is that upstart techies in sg working either as direct employees or contractors and in the local supply chain can excel and branch out on their own. unfortunately, sinkies are daft in the comfortable cocoon and tiny market that is sg. and glc's play the death knell to small private startups. many self-bootstrapped software and gadget startups in sg however end up setting shop in the bay area, due to the much larger market size, eco-system and talent base. the intention is good, but execution slightly off. you can't blame the pappies for that. sg is too small as a market and sinkies are too cozy in their salaried environment. at least the glc's can provide the critical mass to go after the regional, then global market. in hardware and chips, it's an attempt but not a resounding success in fostering r&d, but in software, biotech and medical/pharm attempts, the success rate is higher. you can't fault the pappy gov for trying. it's better to try and fail then never try at all.
the purpose of attracting high tech manufacturing into sg is mainly to boost high value manufacturing output (in terms of per capita gdp), and in addition to the primary objective, jobs of higher value are created. it's vacuous to imagine mnc's relocating their r&d and ipr assets lock, stock and barrel into sg. what is hoped is that upstart techies in sg working either as direct employees or contractors and in the local supply chain can excel and branch out on their own. unfortunately, sinkies are daft in the comfortable cocoon and tiny market that is sg. and glc's play the death knell to small private startups. many self-bootstrapped software and gadget startups in sg however end up setting shop in the bay area, due to the much larger market size, eco-system and talent base. the intention is good, but execution slightly off. you can't blame the pappies for that. sg is too small as a market and sinkies are too cozy in their salaried environment. at least the glc's can provide the critical mass to go after the regional, then global market. in hardware and chips, it's an attempt but not a resounding success in fostering r&d, but in software, biotech and medical/pharm attempts, the success rate is higher. you can't fault the pappy gov for trying. it's better to try and fail then never try at all.
I understand what you are saying. But The EDB is was set up in 1961. That's 53 years ago. And there is not even one success story? Are you kidding me? Billions upon billions of $ spend for tax holidays and other incentives, and we have ZERO companies to show for it? Your comment of their execution being slightly off is really an understatement. Your statement of the local market is too small is also another bullshit. the market will always be small. The market is small for Hong Kong too. the local market is even small for taiwan, and same for S Korea dispite their size. all of them export. What is so special about singapore that they cannot export? If these countries cannot export, they will be dead tomorrow. We have so many favourable trade agreements with other countries. the MNCS have no problem exporting. So, your small local market excuse holds no water. Many bootstrapped start ups set up shop in the bay area? why is that? Could it be that the govt does not tolerate failure? If you are the director of a bankrupt or failed startup company, u are banned from being a director of future companies. Who's rule is that? Its the PAP. stop blaming sinkies for being too comfortable and in a cocoon. The PAP environment is whack people who fail unless (they are PAP cronies or Familee members), and to whack down the nail that sticks out and does not conform. U are damn right I can fault the motherfucking PAP. After 53 years, and zero success, they really fucked this up.
You reminded me of GE which was largest employer here in the 70s with some 10 factories nut once tax holidyas over, one by one folded either close shop or shipped out to China or lines sold to Inidia
The last big draw was 500 mio investment by GE Plastics which got all sorts of incentives........... investor is boss
Not sure if GE Plastics is still around
I think its still around anymore. On benoi road? But how many of these factory workers were singaporeans and how much of their money stayed in singapore?
You have zero knowledge on how the business world works. Let me take you through a few examples. If anyone has received or made payment from/to facebook, you would have gotten it through Ireland. Ireland has lower corporate tax rates than SG and adopt a different way of taxing digital revenues. Amazon and Apple are other examples of companies choosing to receive revenues and shoring money away from parent company. These are now holding companies which hold subsidiaries of active companies incorporated overseas. F.E. whenever you make payment to apple or facebook, you are making payment to apple ireland Inc or facebook ireland Inc and not to THAT Apple or Facebook company which you think is operating in the U.S.
These corporations are holding more money overseas than their country of origin due simply to tax avoidance. Starbucks pays lesser taxes (ZERO) than the avg UK citizen in the past years even though they operate brick and mortar store everywhere in the UK. But still you see starbucks everywhere and no one is crying foul, certainly not the Govt as these companies create jobs and thats the stranglehold corporations have over Govt, UK has freer press indeed and they know about everything but there is nothing they can do about it. Those countries you mentioned have other competitive advantages that SG can no longer offer. Cheap labour and huge market and land. A few years ago in Johor, you can buy a plot of land and the developer will throw in the construction of the bungalow. Furthermore, contracts signed between companies and Govts are not obligated to be disclosed and more often than not are preferred to be opaque hence those countries you mentioned and even everywhere else are hard to find the minutes and details of such tax concessions. But one would be an idiot to assume that there are none in those countries and Especially in developing countries so in need of tech transfers and development of towns,cities and land-clearing.
The revelation of this article you posted is nothing new to the world, but maybe it's news to you and made you fume and sit up to realise. The amount of taxes lost by the US govt is much much more than what is lost by SG govt, but all these loopholes are legal and legit and lament all they want, but there is nothing they can do about it. Right now, the race is on for many Govts to rein in business tax dollars in the EU due to the austerity measures and hence you see many stories being uncovered there but no corporations are taken to task. Again, it's totally legit and legal.
So, back to your article, nothing new here and SWFs like GIC and Temasek have many overseas subsidiaries in those tax havens to avoid paying tax. Notice Temasek's official name is "Temasek Holdings", it is actually just a holding company. So you can see even SG's SWFs are playing the game, they are investing everywhere and in most countries have lesser tax obligations than those local companies.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/dec/06/starbucks-to-pay-10m-corporation-tax
These corporations are holding more money overseas than their country of origin due simply to tax avoidance. Starbucks pays lesser taxes (ZERO) than the avg UK citizen in the past years even though they operate brick and mortar store everywhere in the UK. But still you see starbucks everywhere and no one is crying foul, certainly not the Govt as these companies create jobs and thats the stranglehold corporations have over Govt, UK has freer press indeed and they know about everything but there is nothing they can do about it. Those countries you mentioned have other competitive advantages that SG can no longer offer. Cheap labour and huge market and land. A few years ago in Johor, you can buy a plot of land and the developer will throw in the construction of the bungalow. Furthermore, contracts signed between companies and Govts are not obligated to be disclosed and more often than not are preferred to be opaque hence those countries you mentioned and even everywhere else are hard to find the minutes and details of such tax concessions. But one would be an idiot to assume that there are none in those countries and Especially in developing countries so in need of tech transfers and development of towns,cities and land-clearing.
The revelation of this article you posted is nothing new to the world, but maybe it's news to you and made you fume and sit up to realise. The amount of taxes lost by the US govt is much much more than what is lost by SG govt, but all these loopholes are legal and legit and lament all they want, but there is nothing they can do about it. Right now, the race is on for many Govts to rein in business tax dollars in the EU due to the austerity measures and hence you see many stories being uncovered there but no corporations are taken to task. Again, it's totally legit and legal.
So, back to your article, nothing new here and SWFs like GIC and Temasek have many overseas subsidiaries in those tax havens to avoid paying tax. Notice Temasek's official name is "Temasek Holdings", it is actually just a holding company. So you can see even SG's SWFs are playing the game, they are investing everywhere and in most countries have lesser tax obligations than those local companies.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/dec/06/starbucks-to-pay-10m-corporation-tax
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hahaha...the empty vessel whines again....
my brother (kukubird58) is retired...but he has requested me to expose papsmearer as another DUD...
the thread title and 1st post already confirmed that TS has zero knowledge of the real world.....
truly retarded.
my brother (kukubird58) is retired...but he has requested me to expose papsmearer as another DUD...
the thread title and 1st post already confirmed that TS has zero knowledge of the real world.....
truly retarded.
I know exactly how the business world works, you on the other hand have a problem with reading english. I am not talking about tax avoidance here. I am talking about the giving of tax holidays and such other incentives to open shop here. I am not talking about companies registering themselves in offshore tax havens to avoid taxes. U shoot yourself in the foot when you use your example of Starbuck's brick and mortar operations in the UK. Yes, you could be right, they might be paying almost no taxes in a high taxation country like the UK. The UK govt is ok with that as you say because they create jobs for British citizens. And with personal income tax being so high in the UK, the govt there will collect a large chunk of that back in income tax, and other payroll taxes.
But is this happening in S'pore? For one thing, the UK govt. will not be happy at all if 80% of Starbuck's employees were deliberately hired from FT work visas. The UK govt wants to see jobs created for its own citizens. However, this is not the case in Singapore where the PAP is perfectly happy to see 80% non singaporean hired by these MNCs. The vast majority of these jobs are created for FTs.
You mention the amount of tax lost by the US govt. This may be true. many japanese auto makers were given generous incentives to relocate in Tennessee and BMW is in North Carolina. But the US govt knew that auto workers get paid very well, and that these areas are normally economically depressed. What is saved in payment of unemployment benefits and what it collects in new personal income tax (their taxation rate is higher than singapore for sure) from tens of thousands of auto workers more than compensate for the tax incentives used to lure the companies there. In addition, the US labour laws are very strict in prohibiting and restricting legitimate foreign workers from working in the US, in order to protect american jobs. This is not the case in Singapore. Not only are MNCs getting huge amounts of money in the form of tax holidays, only a minority of their workers are Singaporeans. Where is the benefit to singapore? I have never seen one EDB study on the efficacy of the tax holiday pioneer status programs. They keep doing the same shit year after year and decade after decade. MNCs take us for the sucker we are. The simple fact is that if the PAP does not allow MNCs to hire cheap foreign workers, they would not come at all, regardless of how much tax holidays we give them. Good, they can fuck off.The PAP should be in the business of creating jobs for singaporeans and not foreigners. The sooner u understand this, the better. Your chartered accounting ivory tower world view is nice in theory, but a different story on the ground.
Kukushit, it seems i have troubled u with this thread. Took away your time from ass raping your mother, did I? paiseh.
hahaha...double confirmed retarded empty vessel....
anybody with half a brain will not spout such nonsense....
kukushit, don't call it nonsense lah. we all know u are a motherfucker. how can it be nonsense?
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