2 PAP MPs Defend SMRT’s Chartering Service

frenchbriefs said:

chartered means u get a train exclusive to urself,no one else can board.just like flying first class....u think u can access the first class lounge by paying for economy or budget seats?fooking hell obviously u are not a business savvy person.if u can offer a better privileged service to ur customers,would u offer it at the same cost as to any tom dick and harry taking the normal service?$2 a head?????thats outrageous!!!!!insolent!!!!!and impetous!!!!!

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That may be your impression of the word "chartered" but it certainly isn't the universal definition. Chartered does not mean "exclusive and privileged".

I chartered 2 buses for my Dad's funeral. They were anything but first class. I was horrified but it was part of the funeral package. They weren't exclusive either. Anyone who wanted to watch my Dad being cremated was most welcome to get on board FOC.

winnipegjets said:

$2 per head when the fare should be higher.
We have so many delays due to equipment malfunction ...why would a competent CEO want to use a train for a loss-making service??????

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coincidentally, bart offered $2 tickets to oakland a's fans riding trains to games at the coliseum. if thousands of fans attend each game, it's a lot of money, and the cost vs. benefits are tremendous:
1. fans could have driven and clog driveway entries into stadium parking lots.
2. stadium parking lots are limited.
3. frees up freeway (i-880) for other drivers going to other destinations.
4. unclog bus services and routes covering alameda county; otherwise bus service would be spotty in other areas as they are redirected to stadium routes to handle surge in passengers.
5. efficiently bring fans from all over the bay area to one spot in a timely manner. fans just walk from station to coliseum on a bridge over roads and parking areas.
6. reduces accidents, save limbs and lives.
7. allow games to start without half-filled stadium. otherwise fans are always late trying to get pass the traffic jams and find a parking spot.
8. spare the air.
9. fans are cozy and happy on the trains (will snap pics for future reference). it's a fun ride when you're a fan and surrounded in train by like-minded fans. especially when a's or giants are winning. giants' fans rely on bart too going into sf.
10. everybody wins, including bart, as tens of thousands of fans riding equate to millions of mullah.

i am amused that an ex army chief and now a CEO, can't really think. chartering buses and trains is a different matter. train runs on a track, if the train stall on track, there is no alternative track for other train to use. buses run on roads and if bus break down, they can use other roads. see the difference - simple as that...besides, like i say earlier, alstom trains are not built to last, and you can expect more breakdowns in coming years, it's going to be a norm.

Twist, Bus and Train is total different lah, for bus you are maximizing the redundant bus driver and bus to make extra butts and further more it wouldn't inconvenience the public. train can meh?

If the lady GM, Ms soh around she will suggest to use Tg Pagar kerata api station to hold function, cheaper, bigger and more efficient. the hotel room up stair also can help to produce more baby for stinkapore.

Leongsam said:

That may be your impression of the word "chartered" but it certainly isn't the universal definition. Chartered does not mean "exclusive and privileged".

I chartered 2 buses for my Dad's funeral. They were anything but first class. I was horrified but it was part of the funeral package. They weren't exclusive either. Anyone who wanted to watch my Dad being cremated was most welcome to get on board FOC.

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yeah loh so inconveniencing......can u imagine how hard it is to arrange for trains to arrive at a specific time on schedule for a bunch of people in a PUBLIC TRAIN NETWORK?imagine at 2.30 u have to send 5 empty trains to join the tracks following the rest of the regular mrt schedule and at 3.00pm exactly the first train must arrive at the rendevous station to pick up the acs students?the amount of coordination my god.nebei might as well play this music on the loudspeaker to announce when the "train" arrives.....and have cannon salute the ACS students.

[video=youtube;u2W1Wi2U9sQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2W1Wi2U9sQ[/video]

kaipoh said:

Twist, Bus and Train is total different lah, for bus you are maximizing the redundant bus driver and bus to make extra butts and further more it wouldn't inconvenience the public. train can meh?

If the lady GM, Ms soh around she will suggest to use Tg Pagar kerata api station to hold function, cheaper, bigger and more efficient. the hotel room up stair also can help to produce more baby for stinkapore.

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kaipoh said:

Twist, Bus and Train is total different lah, for bus you are maximizing the redundant bus driver and bus to make extra butts and further more it wouldn't inconvenience the public. train can meh?

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The SMRT trains are not 100% utilised. There is always spare capacity. This makes chartering of trains an excellent option. The revenue can be used for overhead absorption which is always advantageous to any organisation which has vast fixed overheads.

eatshitndie said:

on page 4, you can also see that bart sponsors cheap $2 tickets for sporting events and partners with sports clubs in providing charter transport for riders going to a's games in oakland.

http://www.greendesignetc.net/Transportation_05_(pdf)/SyedAsma_BART(paper).pdf

and this is a direct quote from bart....."partnerships with recreational events promote transit use and benefit the public good with less traffic congestion and cleaner air."

.....often.

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We read what we want to see. On the same page 4, I saw :

"In order to increase ridership, BART Has created incentives for the public ....

I interprete it to mean that business was not good and all the discount and reasoning of less pollution are just gimmicks to improve their business. My selective reading also highlighted to me that the discount is offered to the public and not selected group.

When situations are different it is not fair to quote selectively, just to justify for another case with different conditions.

winnipegjets said:

ACS boys only go for MGS girls lah.

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During my time, SCGS and CHIJ girls too. That was in the early 70s.

Desmond will keep his job. A fine is nothing for SMRT.

Seee3 said:

We read what we want to see. On the same page 4, I saw :

"In order to increase ridership, BART Has created incentives for the public ....

I interprete it to mean that business was not good and all the discount and reasoning of less pollution are just gimmicks to improve their business. My selective reading also highlighted to me that the discount is offered to the public and not selected group.

When situations are different it is not fair to quote selectively, just to justify for another case with different conditions.

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that paper was written in 2005 as an environmental essay (a green paper) for the case of having an extensive and effective transit system. in 2005, bart was already carrying 300k passengers each workday. the writer's use of the phrase "in order to increase ridership" was for environmental reasoning rather than business reasons. the intent of bart at that time was to encourage drivers to leave their cars and ride bart. increasing ridership as a business was a joke as fares were high. and high enough to deter drivers who were paying for gas much cheaper than a 1-way ride. i know because i ride bart since the 80s. and i ride because i can work on the train and get things done before i arrive at the office, and not because of going green. it's definitely not a money saver for me. even right now, it's way cheaper for me to drive. with increases in fares the past 10 years, ridership at bart actually goes up, and that's mostly because it's convenient going into the cities, especially sf where you'll get stuck in traffic for hours.

the "spare the air day" program which the writer alluded to for the equation "ridership = incentives = partnerships" has nothing to do with your interpretation that business was not good. business and ridership at bart have always been good since the 80s. i have decades of zip and xls files to prove that. in fact, on "spare the air days", rides are free! free = $0. it's definitely not about business or profits when it's free. discount and partnership programs are targeted at sports and recreational events and advertised at the events' websites. everyone in the public can join the events, but you need to join the events in order to enjoy the special rewards and discounts. you cannot suka suka pretend to join the event but skip it just to enjoy the bart perks. you need to show your event ticket.

your poor interpretation and selective reading and comprehension (of a text written in clear english) has convinced me that sinkies are inadequate and ineffective in debating any issue factually, precisely and convincingly on sbf.

Not under utilized, it's stingkies like to go lunch or go fuck in a group that make it look under utilize and damage the train, it's sinkies false - MP jeo yeo said one.

HC's fren, Ms Soh makes to be GM created spaces and cut corner to save maintenance costs resulting in train need major rectification. This cost is much much more than the revenue she brought in or created. so, Boss Sam don't repeat that tactic it won't work. 不要害我!!!

Leongsam said:

The SMRT trains are not 100% utilised. There is always spare capacity. This makes chartering of trains an excellent option. The revenue can be used for overhead absorption which is always advantageous to any organisation which has vast fixed overheads.

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GoldenDragon said:

Desmond will keep his job. A fine is nothing for SMRT.

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Fine to smrt sub sub Sui...after all it will pass on to the consumers. The operation still rake in a profit after tax

eatshitndie said:

......in 2005, bart was already carrying 300k passengers each workday. the writer's use of the phrase "in order to increase ridership" was for environmental reasoning rather than business reasons. the intent of bart at that time was to encourage drivers to leave their cars and ride bart.

.......increasing ridership as a business was a joke as fares were high. and high enough to deter drivers who were paying for gas much cheaper than a 1-way ride. i know because i ride bart since the 80s. and i ride because i can work on the train and get things done before i arrive at the office, and not because of going green.

......ridership at bart actually goes up, and that's mostly because it's convenient going into the cities, especially sf where you'll get stuck in traffic for hours.

......has nothing to do with your interpretation that business was not good. .... i have decades of zip and xls files to prove that. in fact, on "spare the air days", rides are free! free = $0. it's definitely not about business or profits when it's free.

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Let's compare Sg and BA so that we have a better understanding of both situations

1. The population of Sg is 5.4m while BA is about 7.1m.

2. The ridership on mrt in Sg on weekday is about 2 650 000 trips per day while BART is about 399,000 trips per day.

3. 31% of Singaporean use the train to work while 16% of workers in BA use the tube regularly to work in 2012.

Hope above comparison do provide a clearer picture and speaks for itself.

BART's ridership is improving is undeniable but does that means that it has no concern with profit? The situation BART is in, reminded me of a story. A mother beat up her son despite a 100% increase in his exam marks. Why? Because the original score was 1 out of 100.

With that kind of ridership number, it is difficult to believe that BART is not after profit but provides free rides to save the world. When companies provide free food, samples for community events, I do know their real purpose. There is no free lunch so the same goes with rides.

Good command of English eases comprehension. However, it takes more than good English to understand the purpose and agenda. Fools take things at face value.

Lan-jiao bin gong lan-jiao weh.

blackmondy said:

Lan-jiao bin gong lan-jiao weh.

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U referring to talkshitndie?

Seee3 said:

Let's compare Sg and BA so that we have a better understanding of both situations

1. The population of Sg is 5.4m while BA is about 7.1m.

2. The ridership on mrt in Sg on weekday is about 2 650 000 trips per day while BART is about 399,000 trips per day.

3. 31% of Singaporean use the train to work while 16% of workers in BA use the tube regularly to work in 2012.

Hope above comparison do provide a clearer picture and speaks for itself.

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these numbers are up to date. but it's not about comparing apples to apples. you're obfuscating the issue by using an apple-apple comparison to throw smoke on a question that came up: whether the nyc transit (and other transit systems for that matter) offer special arrangements and charter services for special events. the broader question should be "is smrt the only transit in the world making special arrangements with a privileged group or other special interest groups for chartered events?" i have produced the answers.

while bart ride density on a weekday is not as high as that of smrt (and kudos to the smrt for handling 2.65m trips a day) it is still a public transport system funded by the fed, state, and counties and run by a board of directors that are answerable to the public. yet, they are free to convene and make their own decisions on special arrangements with special interest groups, namely sports clubs and respective fan base. the same thing can be said about smrt. and if you still want to compare apple-for-apple statistics, it's amazing and impressive for smrt to offer such special arrangements and trips even though the numbers are mind-boggling. it only proves that smrt can easily handle regular day to day massive trips yet go out of its way to cater to special events. instead of getting scorns and lame accusations of corruption, it deserves praise.

eatshitndie said:

.....you're obfuscating the issue by using an apple-apple comparison to throw smoke on a question that came up: whether the nyc transit (and other transit systems for that matter) offer special arrangements and charter services for special events. the broader question should be "is smrt the only transit in the world making special arrangements with a privileged group or other special interest groups for chartered events?" i have produced the answers.

.....it only proves that smrt can easily handle regular day to day massive trips yet go out of its way to cater to special events. instead of getting scorns and lame accusations of corruption, it deserves praise.

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I didn't know that you were only simply trying to prove that other national system do give discount, ...

I thought you were taking the stand that if others can do it, so should we. I am strongly against "monkey see monkey do" type of mindset. Comparing the ridership figure of mrt and Bart, we can see why there is simply no room for luxuries at mrt. The day to day load is already bad so why add unnecessary stress to the staff and system with "chartering". Just add more trains to be shared with the public will do. I am still not convinced that their addition of 5 more chartered trains did not affect normal service as claimed.

Seee3 said:

I didn't know that you were only simply trying to prove that other national system do give discount, ...

I thought you were taking the stand that if others can do it, so should we. I am strongly against "monkey see monkey do" type of mindset. Comparing the ridership figure of mrt and Bart, we can see why there is simply no room for luxuries at mrt. The day to day load is already bad so why add unnecessary stress to the staff and system with "chartering". Just add more trains to be shared with the public will do. I am still not convinced that their addition of 5 more chartered trains did not affect normal service as claimed.

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the smrt has explained that they have excess train capacity to handle the special occasion despite the massive loads for regular service, and that the special arrangement did not impact smooth running of regular services. i am satisfied with their answers as the event happened and no adverse impacts are reported. the transit systems of america can learn from smrt as smrt has set the bar higher.

Am no fan of Desmond nor SMRT but I don't see the point of bashing them up on this point.

eatshitndie said:

the smrt has explained that they have excess train capacity to handle the special occasion despite the massive loads for regular service, and that the special arrangement did not impact smooth running of regular services. i am satisfied with their answers as the event happened and no adverse impacts are reported. the transit systems of america can learn from smrt as smrt has set the bar higher.

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Even if they managed to pull off this one with no hiccup, it is still a very bad precedence as others will follow and demand for the same privilege and discount. There will be no end. With the system already overloaded, there is no need to add more.