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Shocking, We Have Too Many Lawyers, How Come?

Satyr

Alfrescian
Loyal
This situation does not look good because Singapore may become like the US where there are a glut of lawyers but little work to go round. In order to drum up business these lawyers encourage lawsuits and this ultimately drives up the cost of insurance and businesses. All these higher costs will be passed on to the consumers like us.

This was the bullshit argument that the government used to limit doctors and lawyers last time. FYI many lawyers leave the profession every year. Many young ones. Singapore does not have enough litigators. With more lawyers fees will come down. Do you think the AG Judiciary will look kindly on frivolous lawsuits ?
 

gatehousethetinkertailor

Alfrescian
Loyal
PAP's management of the lawyer and doctor professions have been disastrous, after they opened the floodgates to foreigners.

They basically screwed up their own policies implemented years earlier.

The QFLP is one such policy: http://www.thelawyer.com/news/regio...bert-smith-freehills-opts-out/3016941.article

What needs to be distinguished is the areas that foreign law firms can advise on local law - this is always contentious in non-mature jurisdictions as even traditional British firms faced the same pressure when the American firms set up shop and paid double the salaries and chased the same work. It is also cyclical as when the financial crisis hit in 2008, a number of finance lawyers were laid off because banks were all hit.

The idea that there are too many FT lawyers is too simplistic as unless singkie lawyers are qualified under UK or US law then it is unlikely that they would be more suitable hires than FTs who are qualified in those jurisdictions as typically major big ticket transactions are governed by English law and not singkie law. The change in recent years has been the growth of arbitration under singkie law thus creating more opportunities for local lawyers to engage in such work. Don't forget that a major contributor to lawyers leaving the practice is lack of opportunity to become partners. Nobody wants to be doing the grunt work 7 days a week and not move up. And not everyone can become partner.

So I don't think it's necessarily a question of numbers but singkie lawyers having the right qualifications to take up such type of work - it's the transactional work that is squeezing the bottom line of local firms who exclusively would provide local law and regulatory advice. Litigation and conveyancing of HDB flats is not within the remit of foreign firms but arbitration is and that again has squeezed local firms.

Most local-foreign firms have notoriously failed including Sherman and Sterlings tie-up in the late 90s with Lee Suet Fern's firm (Lee Hsien Yang's wife)

Here are some interesting reads:

http://www.thelawyer.com/singapore-...s-revealed/1012180.article?cmpid=dnews_151798

This article points to the pressure on the government to liberalise even further and you can guess how the big local firms are resisting any such further intrusion:

http://www.thelawyer.com/analysis/b...in-singapore-without-the-qflp/3017033.article

And a year ago they were discussing how much better salary scales are now: http://www.stjobs.sg/career-resources/money-matters/young-lawyers-get-pay-hike-with-caveat/a/127687

Compare the starting salaries of grads to those working for premier firms in the UK (note the transparency of pay scales)

http://www.rollonfriday.com/InsideInfo/CityFirms/tabid/68/Default.aspx

Naturally local grads would be toolan but the salaries at top law firms in the UK but as the article on Shan suggests if indeed singkie lawyers are studying in the UK, then why not get a training contract there, qualify and work a couple of years before joining an international firm in Singapore with higher salary? The grunt work is the same no? So is it really an issue of being academically able but practical skills are lacking? Getting a law degree means very little in transactions work as it does not provide legal training hor. Just basic legal knowledge which comes in handy for essays. The real grunt is when you work on complexed deals and have to deal with client bankers who will extract every ounce of blood and sweat from you so they can close the deal and secure their bonuses.
 

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Tuayapeh

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
The QFLP is one such policy: http://www.thelawyer.com/news/regio...bert-smith-freehills-opts-out/3016941.article

What needs to be distinguished is the areas that foreign law firms can advise on local law - this is always contentious in non-mature jurisdictions as even traditional British firms faced the same pressure when the American firms set up shop and paid double the salaries and chased the same work. It is also cyclical as when the financial crisis hit in 2008, a number of finance lawyers were laid off because banks were all hit.

The idea that there are too many FT lawyers is too simplistic as unless singkie lawyers are qualified under UK or US law then it is unlikely that they would be more suitable hires than FTs who are qualified in those jurisdictions as typically major big ticket transactions are governed by English law and not singkie law. The change in recent years has been the growth of arbitration under singkie law thus creating more opportunities for local lawyers to engage in such work. Don't forget that a major contributor to lawyers leaving the practice is lack of opportunity to become partners. Nobody wants to be doing the grunt work 7 days a week and not move up. And not everyone can become partner.

So I don't think it's necessarily a question of numbers but singkie lawyers having the right qualifications to take up such type of work - it's the transactional work that is squeezing the bottom line of local firms who exclusively would provide local law and regulatory advice. Litigation and conveyancing of HDB flats is not within the remit of foreign firms but arbitration is and that again has squeezed local firms.

Most local-foreign firms have notoriously failed including Sherman and Sterlings tie-up in the late 90s with Lee Suet Fern's firm.

Here are some interesting reads:

http://www.thelawyer.com/singapore-...s-revealed/1012180.article?cmpid=dnews_151798

This article points to the pressure on the government to liberalise even further and you can guess how the big local firms are resisting any such further intrusion:

http://www.thelawyer.com/analysis/b...in-singapore-without-the-qflp/3017033.article

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no need to look very far.....the recruiters from HK have themselves noticed how totally converse was Sinkapore's policy vs HK's own policy....


whereas the HK govt did not try to tell the angmoh firms what read of the law they can or cannot practice...... they instead required for certain labour restrictions in the angmoh law firms like for e.g. minimum number of HK trained lawyers or HK lawyers....



maybe Sham should just take a leaf and go learn from the HKies how they got their balance right....

instead of trying to prevent them from looking at practising litigation.....because the PAP is probably worried that these developed counter lawyers would cry afoul (KPKB) when they suddenly discover out what a fucking kangaroo system of criminal law they have in the cheebye stinkapore courts.....
 

Capano2121

Alfrescian
Loyal
Same bullshit when the same was said about doctors! Now they have to bring garbage & trash from Doggyland, Shittyland & the Flipsyland whose same qualification was once not even good enough to qualify as a orderly!
 

sochi2014

Alfrescian
Loyal
4,400 for a population of 6 million people a lot meh?

He scared no business when he is out of a job on 2016?
 
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