Goh Meng Seng: LTK has lost his arms and legs politically

Satyr said:

Otherwise someone like Eric Tan would have been in parliament as NCMP. Deserving though he was , it did not fit with ambitions of the party. Do not underestimate LTK.

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Anyone who has met Eric Tan will know that once this guy opens his mouth, it is impossible to shut him up. At any dinner table of x people, he is the only one speaking and can go on for 3 hours.

That solves the mystery of why the party chose Gerald. Nothing to do with old or young, past or present.

Of course if you are the kind who like this types to take on the PAP, by all means.

Scroobal,

I guess you are stuck with the same small mindset here. If WP is to have 80 potential candidates who are young and have high qualifications, then how? All put into CEC?

If PAP is to fill their CEC with NEW YOUNG people, they will have big problems. The CEC is functional in RUNNING the party machinery, daily operations as well as preparation of GE. In a growing party like WP, it will need someone to do full time operation management... from weekly ground work, grassroot activities to publication of newsletter etc. At this moment, WP cannot afford a full operation cell and thus, only get one paid member to do the job. At present, who can fill that role? Well maybe CSM can be the Org Sect because he is now full time politician. But most likely, LTK will end up appointing Gerald Giam.... we will see what comes out from it then.

Running daily operations is quite different skill set from policy debates. LTK may not be held hostage, but rather, partially crippled. It will be interesting to see how they will work it out here.

Goh Meng Seng

scroobal said:

When I first read what you wrote, I was flabbergasted and feared the worst. I thought the party was hijacked and LTK and SL held pretty much hostage. Read Wong Hong Toy, Ling Howe Doong, Poh Lee Guan etc

Then I found out the makeup of the new CEC and it clearly showed progress and reflective of their growing popularity and desire to step up to the next level, Swee Bee, Jane and Frieda, Hong Boon etc should not feel bad at all. They did their part and sacrificed a lot especially the first three. They helped lay down the strong foundation and should be proud when it was in the wilderness and few people bothered to come forward. Completely understand the disappointment but renewal can be harsh yet necessary. Many of us will remember the good work and selfless help given that changed the tide.

As for John and Soma, there is a veterans group and they are looking for representation well.

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Firstly you will fill your CEC with quality and not quantity. Secondly why you lost votes in Tampines. Instead of canvassing for votes you were preoccupied with running around on logistics. Logistics, admin, publications, grassroots activities coordination etc has nothing to with the CEC. The CEC sets the party ideology, direction, policies, ethos and provides governance. Its the leadership team, not the admin team. Some members of the CEC will be given operational and admin line responsibilities but that is secondary.

Harbans Singh had the same mentality as you. His law firm secretary became his no. 2 of this party and this shadow foreign ministers. She was also his mistress.

Get the picture?

Goh Meng Seng said:

Scroobal,

I guess you are stuck with the same small mindset here. If WP is to have 80 potential candidates who are young and have high qualifications, then how? All put into CEC?

If PAP is to fill their CEC with NEW YOUNG people, they will have big problems. The CEC is functional in RUNNING the party machinery, daily operations as well as preparation of GE. In a growing party like WP, it will need someone to do full time operation management... from weekly ground work, grassroot activities to publication of newsletter etc. At this moment, WP cannot afford a full operation cell and thus, only get one paid member to do the job. At present, who can fill that role? Well maybe CSM can be the Org Sect because he is now full time politician. But most likely, LTK will end up appointing Gerald Giam.... we will see what comes out from it then.

Running daily operations is quite different skill set from policy debates. LTK may not be held hostage, but rather, partially crippled. It will be interesting to see how they will work it out here.

Goh Meng Seng

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I do not think that is fair comment on Eric Tan. The most important thing is that he is capable of intelligent conversation and will not fall into some fundamental logic flaws like Gerald. In 2006, when Sylvia was appointed NCMP, we do not go through any "voting" by CEC and push the decision to "party" because LTK has decided. LTK renegaded on his own promise, simple as that. It is perfectly to change his mind, you know. Just need to approach Eric in advanced and try to persuade him but that's not done. That's basic diplomacy which is lacking.

Well, talking about diplomacy, it must be used sincerely, else you will end up with the likes of Frieda (aka Melvin Tan's wife) who tried to go around to appease people but kena rejected. People just don't feel her sincerity but just politicking. That's where she failed badly and should be a caution to other politician wannabe. The veterans may be old but definitely not fools nor idiots.


Goh Meng Seng

tanwahp said:

Anyone who has met Eric Tan will know that once this guy opens his mouth, it is impossible to shut him up. At any dinner table of x people, he is the only one speaking and can go on for 3 hours.

That solves the mystery of why the party chose Gerald. Nothing to do with old or young, past or present.

Of course if you are the kind who like this types to take on the PAP, by all means.

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Party CEC is for running the party, part of it is diplomacy and PR which lies on the Chairman/President and SG. Policy views and canvassing of votes are responsibility of candidates, regardless of whether he or she is in CEC or not. You will need AT LEAST two to three in CEC who are running the ops.

NSP doesn't have the luxury of having a strong admin and logistic team. But a growing party like WP is totally different.


Goh Meng Seng

scroobal said:

Firstly you will fill your CEC with quality and not quantity. Secondly why you lost votes in Tampines. Instead of canvassing for votes you were preoccupied with running around on logistics. Logistics, admin, publications, grassroots activities coordination etc has nothing to with the CEC. The CEC sets the party ideology, direction, policies, ethos and provides governance. Its the leadership team, not the admin team. Some members of the CEC will be given operational and admin line responsibilities but that is secondary.

Harbans Singh had the same mentality as you. His law firm secretary became his no. 2 of this party and this shadow foreign ministers. She was also his mistress.

Get the picture?

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All parties and organisation are the same. They do with what they have. The moment someone better comes along, they will pick those.

In the case of GMS and Eric Tan, they truly fucked it up themselves. Nothing to do with WP. Too smart for their own good. Both walked out.

GMS had the opportunity to shape WP. He gave it up. Now writing essays on SMS in Mandarin.

Satyr said:

Seems the TNP found the angle they needed from GMS.
The WP looks to the future not the past. Otherwise someone like Eric Tan would have been in parliament as NCMP. Deserving though he was , it did not fit with ambitions of the party. Do not underestimate LTK.

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Yes and no, Scroobal. There will be compromises made and it really depends on the cost of making such compromises.

What I have stated here is simple, in the midst of this mindset "MPs must be in CEC" and "We need new faces", in the end, those who do the actual running of the part were sacrificed. It cripples the proper functioning of the party. There were six incumbent out of CEC and I didn't mention Glenda because she didn't contest. She understood the need to step down for "renewal". Frieda is really inconsequential, rightfully, can be booted out. But to boot the other four who were the ones critical to the proper functioning of the party, this is really another matter altogether. Such compromise may just be too big for LTK and WP to bear.

And for the record, I have been relative good or even better after leaving WP. Unlike some WP candidates who didn't win elections, they will develop inferiority complex and keep thinking they are "immaterial" and "inconsequential" because they don't feel the "recognition" from the ground (aka nobody recognize them from the ground they have contested), always think that WP branding and logo is all they can depend on...etc etc.

At the very least, both Eric and I are standing on our own feet with our own public profile.

Goh Meng Seng

scroobal said:

All parties and organisation are the same. They do with what they have. The moment someone better comes along, they will pick those.

In the case of GMS and Eric Tan, they truly fucked it up themselves. Nothing to do with WP. Too smart for their own good. Both walked out.

GMS had the opportunity to shape WP. He gave it up. Now writing essays on SMS in Mandarin.

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Goh Meng Seng said:

I do not think that is fair comment on Eric Tan. The most important thing is that he is capable of intelligent conversation and will not fall into some fundamental logic flaws like Gerald.

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No, I think it is a fair comment, I think we are entitled to our view and I think we are entitled to agree to disagree. After all, you have commented negatively on all 9 MPs / NCMPs and all 5 who did not get into the CEC. Not one was left out. No reason why I can't do the same, although I have not because I have yet to talk about PLG.

The issue is everyone still in WP tends to get into your bad books unless they leave the party and as long as they do not, they continue to be in your bad books.

Back to Eric Tan. Other than financial issues of which he gained knowledge as a banker, the rest are frog in the well. And he should do something with his bullet train mouth.

Eric has the charisma of a chimney. It was for the party, the country and his own good that Gerald G aim was chosen. Leaders have to make tough decision. It might not be fair to Eric but certainly fair to the party and the rest of Singapore.

Eric is also not some small kid. Did he expect to be brought to a nice restaurant and told why he was not to be the one. i agree with LTK having a quiet word with Eric.

Goh Meng Seng said:

I do not think that is fair comment on Eric Tan. The most important thing is that he is capable of intelligent conversation and will not fall into some fundamental logic flaws like Gerald. In 2006, when Sylvia was appointed NCMP, we do not go through any "voting" by CEC and push the decision to "party" because LTK has decided. LTK renegaded on his own promise, simple as that. It is perfectly to change his mind, you know. Just need to approach Eric in advanced and try to persuade him but that's not done. That's basic diplomacy which is lacking.

Well, talking about diplomacy, it must be used sincerely, else you will end up with the likes of Frieda (aka Melvin Tan's wife) who tried to go around to appease people but kena rejected. People just don't feel her sincerity but just politicking. That's where she failed badly and should be a caution to other politician wannabe. The veterans may be old but definitely not fools nor idiots.


Goh Meng Seng

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Agree with PR and diplomacy. It's like saying please wear clothes when you leave your house.

Agree on the Ops and admin part but I would consider that secondary and as mentioned earlier I am sure some members of the CEC will have to do it.

Goh Meng Seng said:

Party CEC is for running the party, part of it is diplomacy and PR which lies on the Chairman/President and SG. Policy views and canvassing of votes are responsibility of candidates, regardless of whether he or she is in CEC or not. You will need AT LEAST two to three in CEC who are running the ops.

NSP doesn't have the luxury of having a strong admin and logistic team. But a growing party like WP is totally different.


Goh Meng Seng

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Let's face facts. It's a democracy. The disgruntled cadres threw the 5 out. It's a mini coup de tat. But they also voted in capable people. For all you know LTK might be delighted because it was the right thing to do.

Your arguments and your comments as TFBH said - more gossips between Ah Soh's at wet market. The only thing missing is whether they wear tongs or panties.

It becomes an issue if the new CEC members threw out a standing MP or brought in their cronies and family members.

Maybe you should join AWARE -

Goh Meng Seng said:

Yes and no, Scroobal. There will be compromises made and it really depends on the cost of making such compromises.

What I have stated here is simple, in the midst of this mindset "MPs must be in CEC" and "We need new faces", in the end, those who do the actual running of the part were sacrificed. It cripples the proper functioning of the party. There were six incumbent out of CEC and I didn't mention Glenda because she didn't contest. She understood the need to step down for "renewal". Frieda is really inconsequential, rightfully, can be booted out. But to boot the other four who were the ones critical to the proper functioning of the party, this is really another matter altogether. Such compromise may just be too big for LTK and WP to bear.

And for the record, I have been relative good or even better after leaving WP. Unlike some WP candidates who didn't win elections, they will develop inferiority complex and keep thinking they are "immaterial" and "inconsequential" because they don't feel the "recognition" from the ground (aka nobody recognize them from the ground they have contested), always think that WP branding and logo is all they can depend on...etc etc.

At the very least, both Eric and I are standing on our own feet with our own public profile.

Goh Meng Seng

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Well, even if you want Gerald to be the NCMP, then it is not right to make empty promises right from the start! That's the point Eric is making. That is why Eric is very pissed off with LTK and SL, not the whole party, not even those who voted against him. When they need Eric to hold the fort, form and lead the team, they anyhow made empty promises which they didn't intend to keep. After achieving the goals, they backstabbed him. That's the crux of the matter.

You may be right, it is actually better for Eric if Gerald to be made NCMP. He is now happily traveling all over the world for long holiday trips as and when he likes! Gerald needs that "job" more than he does. But it is actually no good for Gerald in the end, for his lack of depth in issues has been fully exposed in the various important Parliamentary debates. Life is strange in that making.

But for Eric, he still feels strongly that such leadership in WP is bad, not only for him but for the whole party as well. If you can't even keep promises to your own party comrades, how to expect you to keep promises to the voters? Don't make empty promises of convenience and treat people like tissue paper. That's main key points Eric is unhappy about and rightfully so. You can't blame him for being angry at Low and SL. Furthermore, it is apparent that such management style is taking a toll on the party and it has become so bad that things just blew up now.

Goh Meng Seng

scroobal said:

Eric has the charisma of a chimney. It was for the party, the country and his own good that Gerald G aim was chosen. Leaders have to make tough decision. It might not be fair to Eric but certainly fair to the party and the rest of Singapore.

Eric is also not some small kid. Did he expect to be brought to a nice restaurant and told why he was not to be the one. i agree with LTK having a quiet word with Eric.

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Someone from WP better reveal what happened at Moulmein. This is no ordinary spat. GMS went bonkers after whatever happened over Moulmein. This one runs really deep. LTK must have said or done something that really upset him. And it cannot be over contesting the seat.

tanwahp said:

No, I think it is a fair comment, I think we are entitled to our view and I think we are entitled to agree to disagree. After all, you have commented negatively on all 9 MPs / NCMPs and all 5 who did not get into the CEC. Not one was left out. No reason why I can't do the same, although I have not because I have yet to talk about PLG.

The issue is everyone still in WP tends to get into your bad books unless they leave the party and as long as they do not, they continue to be in your bad books.

Back to Eric Tan. Other than financial issues of which he gained knowledge as a banker, the rest are frog in the well. And he should do something with his bullet train mouth.

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Politics is hard for everyone. Lets accept the point that a promise made to Eric was broken. Do you think that CEC would be agreeable to allow LTK to keep his word.

If Eric was intelligent he would realise that he is a member of WP and not a member of LTK's family. He should have stayed the course and work with the CEC to cement his place for the next opportunity. And to your earlier point about PR / diplomacy and get to the right side of CEC.

Not very intelligent is he.

Goh Meng Seng said:

Well, even if you want Gerald to be the NCMP, then it is not right to make empty promises right from the start! That's the point Eric is making. That is why Eric is very pissed off with LTK and SL, not the whole party, not even those who voted against him. When they need Eric to hold the fort, form and lead the team, they anyhow made empty promises which they didn't intend to keep. After achieving the goals, they backstabbed him. That's the crux of the matter.

Goh Meng Seng

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You want to know the Truth? I don't think you can handle the Truth.

The Truth is, "Suicide Squad" has changed definitions for WP from "Block Force" of PAP's heavy weights from going around to lend fire support to other constitencies' contest to "Sabotage Force" of fellow opposition parties to suppress their electoral success. This is the TRUTH which has been verified.

M-K was an attempt born out of vindictive vengeance, deep down fear, envy, hurt pride and jealousy. It all started out from the NEA summon saga. Yes, this one can write a long novel out of it.

This is why I am not surprised at all when LTK gave that speech of "walking own path".


Goh Meng Seng

scroobal said:

Someone from WP better reveal what happened at Moulmein. This is no ordinary spat. GMS went bonkers after whatever happened over Moulmein. This one runs really deep. LTK must have said or done something that really upset him. And it cannot be over contesting the seat.

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Scroobal, politics is about Sincerity. Do you think anyone back then has the clout to go against LTK if he decided so? Not in 2006 selection of Aljunied NCMP, not in 2011. Period.

It is the total lack of courtesy, honor and basic diplomacy that fails to contain such "turn about". Yes, change your mind by all means but just make that little extra effort to talk and effort to convince Eric before going to the vote. That's the grudge of Eric and I fully empathize with him.

Goh Meng Seng

scroobal said:

Politics is hard for everyone. Lets accept the point that a promise made to Eric was broken. Do you think that CEC would be agreeable to allow LTK to keep his word.

If Eric was intelligent he would realise that he is a member of WP and not a member of LTK's family. He should have stayed the course and work with the CEC to cement his place for the next opportunity. And to your earlier point about PR / diplomacy and get to the right side of CEC.

Not very intelligent is he.

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For your information, LTK was FURIOUS after this CEC elections and rightfully so, for many reasons.

Goh Meng Seng

scroobal said:

Let's face facts. It's a democracy. The disgruntled cadres threw the 5 out. It's a mini coup de tat. But they also voted in capable people. For all you know LTK might be delighted because it was the right thing to do.

Your arguments and your comments as TFBH said - more gossips between Ah Soh's at wet market. The only thing missing is whether they wear tongs or panties.

It becomes an issue if the new CEC members threw out a standing MP or brought in their cronies and family members.

Maybe you should join AWARE -

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scroobal said:

Someone from WP better reveal what happened at Moulmein.

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It would be good if someone did and we know GMS own version is too bizarre to be true. What I could only gather was WP jumping at the chance of expansion and entering this "new" GRC after it was "newly created", while NSP claims it was "Jalan Besar GRC rebooted".

On hindsight, was it good for the NSP to have MK? GMS the NSP SG said he had a better team because of the 2 scholars, but you remember GMS the independent whatever badmouthed the 2 scholars after he was out of NSP.

His recent remarks on WP's own MK scholar Toh Hong Boon was also telling that he didn't think highly of scholars after all. Toh was labelled as a "typical scholar mentality". Well it could apply to the scholar couple as well. At least Toh, unpaid for serving in WP, is still with WP. The 2 scholars had nearly disappeared.

steffychun said:

Or his brain

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or his balls.

can't understand why LTS' evil twin ah seng always wanna hantam ah khiang. if he doesn't have the solution at least he won't add another problem.

WP has the prospective to overthrown the pap and prove themselves a good and more compassionate althernative.....at least that's how many hope for. then again the taste of the pudding is in the filling. until the wp really gets into power, no one would really know how good - or how bad, they really are.

that's the big gamble every voters has to take. it also signals to the pap that we are quite pissed with their fucking arrogance.

Haha... get your facts right. The term of WP M-K team as "Suicide Squad" doesn't come from me dude. It comes from WP leadership!

Goh Meng Seng

tanwahp said:

It would be good if someone did and we know GMS own version is too bizarre to be true. What I could only gather was WP jumping at the chance of expansion and entering this "new" GRC after it was "newly created", while NSP claims it was "Jalan Besar GRC rebooted".

On hindsight, was it good for the NSP to have MK? GMS the NSP SG said he had a better team because of the 2 scholars, but you remember GMS the independent whatever badmouthed the 2 scholars after he was out of NSP.

His recent remarks on WP's own MK scholar Toh Hong Boon was also telling that he didn't think highly of scholars after all. Toh was labelled as a "typical scholar mentality". Well it could apply to the scholar couple as well. At least Toh, unpaid for serving in WP, is still with WP. The 2 scholars had nearly disappeared.

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