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Somebody's lying...and not afraid of being caught (in this time and age)

dr.wailing

Alfrescian
Loyal
When I was a little boy my grandma, who was illiterate, taught me how to tell if some people are lying. Truth is immutable: persons A and B may live in totally different eras but what they say about a certain truth is the same.

Tharman now (2014) says that the government does indeed use CPF funds for investment.

However in 2007, Dr Ng said the opposite. [see the article referenced by the following link: http://www.tremeritus.com/2014/07/27/dr-ng-in-2007-gic-did-not-use-cpf-monies/]

The two of them together CANNOT be telling the truth.
 

xingguy

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Source: TR EMERITUS

Dr Ng in 2007: GIC did not use CPF monies
July 27th, 2014 | Author: Editorial

ngenghen.jpg

Ng Eng Hen was the Manpower Minister in 2007. (Photo ST)

In May, after blogger Roy Ngerng received a letter of demand from PM Lee’s lawyer, the CPF issue suddenly became a hot topic of discussion among Singaporeans. On 31 May, responding to media queries on what the Government does with the money that goes into the CPF and how it determines CPF interest rates (‘MOF’s official reply on CPF monies & interest rates‘), MOF admitted that the CPF monies are, indeed, invested through GIC ultimately.

MOF replied:

CPF monies are invested by the CPF Board (CPFB) in Special Singapore Government Securities (SSGS) that are issued and guaranteed by the Singapore Government… The proceeds from SSGS issuance are invested by the Government via MAS and GIC, just as it invests the proceeds from the market-based Singapore Government Securities (SGS).

No CPF monies go towards Government spending. Government borrowings, whether via SGS or SSGS, cannot be used to fund expenditures. Under the reserves protection framework enacted in 1990 in the Constitution and the Government Securities Act (enacted in 1992), the monies raised from government borrowings cannot be spent.

When government securities are issued, the proceeds are first deposited with MAS as Government deposits. MAS converts these funds into foreign assets through the foreign exchange market. However, as a major portion of these assets are of a long-term nature, such as those that provide backing for long-term Government liabilities like SSGS, such assets are transferred to GIC to be managed over a long investment horizon.

The Government’s assets are therefore mainly managed by GIC. GIC is a fund manager, not an owner of the assets. It merely receives funds from Government for long-term management, without regard to the sources of Government funds, e.g. SGS, SSGS, government surpluses.​

However, thanks to a revelation from prominent blogger Leong Sze Hian [Link], we now know that 7 years ago in 2007, then Manpower Minister Dr Ng Eng Hen, who was in-charge of MOM from 2004 to 2008, told opposition MP Low Thia Khiang that GIC did not use money derived from CPF to invest (CPFB comes under MOM).

Dr Ng told this to Mr Low in a Parliamentary sitting on 19 Sep 2007 [Link]:

Mr Low Thia Khiang rose—

Mr Speaker: Mr Low, you can seek or make clarifications but no speeches.

Mr Low Thia Khiang: Sir, I would like to seek clarifications from the Minister. Does the Government Investment Corporation (GIC) use money derived from CPF to invest? If the answer is yes, then the next question —

Dr Ng Eng Hen: The answer is no.

Mr Low Thia Khiang: Then no question.​

Then later, realising that he may have given an incorrect answer, Dr Ng tried to clarify but proceeded to “muddle” his reply:

Dr Ng Eng Hen: Mr Speaker, Sir, in the course of this debate, I may have misheard certain things and if I misquoted the Members, let me apologise.

Mr Low asked whether the GIC money is derived from CPF money. The relationship is not so simple. Let me give an example. You put money in the bank, and you agree that you put it there and you get 2%. The bank publishes a report and says that of all its earnings, it earned 8%. You go to the bank and say you want 8%, it does not work.

MOF has taken on our liabilities. What MOF does with its money is MOF’s consideration but the Government takes over the liabilities of CPF Board that promises a risk-free rate to members. That is how it works. As I have said, the market test is, if anybody else thinks he can take on that liability, please line up, but no one will take on that liability because they cannot deliver.​

At the point, Mr Low astutely took the opportunity to ask Dr Ng if the Government is trying to use Singaporeans’ CPF monies as a cheap source of funds to invest and generate returns for itself:

Mr Low Thia Khiang: Sir, further clarifications. I am not sure now whether the GIC does use money derived from CPF to invest given the latest answer by the Minister. If that is the case, then my next question is: does the Government shortchange Singaporeans by giving CPF members 3.5% of the interest rate while the GIC makes 9% and pockets the balance of 5.5%?

And the third question leading to that is: is the motive of holding payment of CPF, the draw-down age, to enable GIC to have a readily available and cheap source of funds to invest?​

Then Dr Ng gave a cryptic answer before the Parliamentary session was ended that day by the Speaker of Parliament:

Dr Ng Eng Hen: Sir, if it was that cheap, we would have a line of suitors waiting for that money. There is none.

Mr Speaker: Pursuant to Standing Order 44(2), the motion to consider the Ministerial Statement on the CPF Reforms and Other Measures for a Secure Retirement lapses at the conclusion of debate.​

Thanks to Roy’s incident, the CPF return issue has resurfaced again 7 years later. With regard to the Government using Singaporeans’ CPF monies as a cheap source of funds to invest, NMP Laurence Lien had this to say in his recent article to ST (‘NMP Lien on GIC: Pay out bonus returns periodically‘).

Mr Lien said, “The Government is not a commercial entity that needs to be profitable and obtain compensation in return for taking risks. It can take a long-term view and smoothen returns on behalf of CPF members. Even the Ordinary Account can be invested in the long term. Although more liquid by design, the net contributions into the Ordinary Account are generally positive year on year.”

“In fact, the total balances of CPF members have increased every year from $52 billion in 1993 to $253 billion in 2013. This gives GIC the stability that it needs to invest CPF funds for the long term,” he added.

“Apart from more transparency, I believe the Government should commit to being revenue neutral over the long term on the investments of CPF funds. Based on GIC’s current asset allocation, the Government should be able to accumulate excess returns on invested CPF funds over the long term and pay out bonus returns periodically,” said Mr Lien.

End of article

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rusty

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Dr Ng Eng Hen: Mr Speaker, Sir, in the course of this debate, I may have misheard certain things and if I misquoted the Members, let me apologise.

Mr Low asked whether the GIC money is derived from CPF money. The relationship is not so simple. Let me give an example. You put money in the bank, and you agree that you put it there and you get 2%. The bank publishes a report and says that of all its earnings, it earned 8%. You go to the bank and say you want 8%, it does not work.


I put the money in the bank because I am happy with the 2%.
The bank allows me to take out anytime I want and I am also aware they use my money to roll for more.

Now, Mr Hen you motherfucker force my employer to deduct my pay and use the money to roll without my consent.
On top of that, you fuckers lock my savings in the pretext for retirement.

I don't need your fucking interests....just return my money when I am 55!
 

laksaboy

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
When there is no punishment for lying, and even less repercussions for getting caught lying, all you can expect is more lies.
 

halsey02

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
I put the money in the bank because I am happy with the 2%.
The bank allows me to take out anytime I want and I am also aware they use my money to roll for more.

Now, Mr Hen you motherfucker force my employer to deduct my pay and use the money to roll without my consent.
On top of that, you fuckers lock my savings in the pretext for retirement.

I don't need your fucking interests....just return my money when I am 55!

Yes, the principle of savings, for 30 years from the day you work, or up to 55 years old & beyond is, for example, you instruct your employer to credit your bank account a certain sum or you do it yourself, instruct the bank to place a certain sum of money to be placed in Fixed Deposits, & roll the interests. At the end of 30 years, you get accumulated savings plus interests rolled over. Unless you owe the bank money, at anytime , you can withdraw the money, your money, not it is yOUR money. There are no restrictions imposed upon your money, discounting monies owe to Tax etc..

They are in a fix not,, now that 'the cat is out of the bag' & more, more & more people are asking about yOUR MONEY, unlike in the past...people, just let them, do what they like & pay them what they think they should get, listen to their bullshit of if they let you take all the money...you will spend the money from Batam to Shanghai...& be broke thereafter story. People were very trusting of them in the past & we could say, the older politicians weren't saints, but much more trustworthy.

We do not need a nanny government now, or all the propagandas explaining who is doing what with yOUR MONEY& earning what interests, etc.

WE WANT CHOICES, not ever changing goal posts on OUR MONEY, at 55 years of age, we MUST BE GIVEN THE OPTION TO WITHDRAW ALL OUR MONEY, if we want to & we trust them, retain the money till we are 65, & withdraw them, monthly over certain years, till the MONEY run out.

The WORD IS CHOICE....we must be given first priority to take out all OUR HARD EARN, BLOOD SWEAT & TEARS MONEY, if we can't, WE SHOULD BE LOOKING INTO ANOTHER GOVERNMENT.
 

halsey02

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
When there is no punishment for lying, and even less repercussions for getting caught lying, all you can expect is more lies.

An eye for any eye, a tongue for a tongue....they usually cut it off for lying!!...have you no visited Haw Par Villa , when you were young??
 

makapaaa

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
40%: The FAP Traitors are SHAMELESS LIARS!

60%: You 40% must be LYING!

40%: Are you so DAFT that you donch even believe your eyes?

60%: Mai gar lee gong liao. My bowl of coolie rice is turning cold. Tata! *hee*hee*

40%: *shake head*
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
The proof of the pudding is in the eating. The CPF scheme has done wonders for me and I support it 100%.

It does not matter how or where the money is invested. All that matters is the fact that CPF has helped me retire early. For that I am truly grateful to the PAP.
 

phouse3

Alfrescian
Loyal
GIC's client is the government, not the CPF board.

So Ng Eng Hen's curt reply is correct. This is how people in the private sector usually talk. It's a way of saying you better know your facts. He later apologised and went on to elaborate on the role of the financial intermediary.

The WP supporters are trying to claim credit as the party has been silent so far.
 

virus

Alfrescian
Loyal
The proof of the pudding is in the eating. The CPF scheme has done wonders for me and I support it 100%.

It does not matter how or where the money is invested. All that matters is the fact that CPF has helped me retire early. For that I am truly grateful to the PAP.

so when you gg to pump back all your cash back into CPF to prove your point?

otherwise it is just hot air.
 

xingguy

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
GIC's client is the government, not the CPF board.

So Ng Eng Hen's curt reply is correct. This is how people in the private sector usually talk. It's a way of saying you better know your facts. He later apologised and went on to elaborate on the role of the financial intermediary.

The WP supporters are trying to claim credit as the party has been silent so far.

Low Thia Khiang had brought this up in parliament in 2007.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/7_1RRHKvCl0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
so when you gg to pump back all your cash back into CPF to prove your point?

otherwise it is just hot air.

What's the point. CPF has served its purpose and I've moved on in life.

Others should do the same and take advantage of the wonderful CPF scheme to boost their net worth so they can retire comfortably. If I can do it then so can everyone else.
 

virus

Alfrescian
Loyal
lan jeow lor... got say like no say. you know the rules hv changed. last time is like you kena life imprisonment, reached 55 tio released. now is like life imprisonment with no parole. ask you to go back prison becos you claim prison food is nutritious and best for you is for your own good. when you wanna prove your point, you used sematics from the past.
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
lan jeow lor... got say like no say. you know the rules hv changed. last time is like you kena life imprisonment, reached 55 tio released. now is like life imprisonment with no parole. ask you to go back prison becos you claim prison food is nutritious and best for you is for your own good. when you wanna prove your point, you used sematics from the past.

I have more than the minimum sum in my CPF which I have left there because the interest rate is excellent in SGD terms plus the strong currency ensures stability against the more volatile currencies that I hold.

This is what my CPF account looked like before I withdrew a further $400,000 in 2013.

I am REALLY grateful to the PAP and to LKY and LHL in particular for making my life so wonderful and finances so strong. I will be forever in awe of their leadership. I could not have asked for better.
 

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krafty

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
boss, i am impressed by how much you have in your cpf, can you advise us how did you accumulate such big amount in your account? i doubt that i can reach such amount in my life...:o

I have more than the minimum sum in my CPF which I have left there because the interest rate is excellent in SGD terms plus the strong currency ensures stability against the more volatile currencies that I hold.

This is what my CPF account looked like before I withdrew a further $400,000 in 2013.

I am REALLY grateful to the PAP and to LKY and LHL in particular for making my life so wonderful and finances so strong. I will be forever in awe of their leadership. I could not have asked for better.
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
boss, i am impressed by how much you have in your cpf, can you advise us how did you accumulate such big amount in your account? i doubt that i can reach such amount in my life...:o

By putting the money to work instead of just letting it sit there. For details go to my retirement thread.
 

escher

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
I put the money in the bank because I am happy with the 2%.
The bank allows me to take out anytime I want and I am also aware they use my money to roll for more.

Now, Mr Hen you motherfucker force my employer to deduct my pay and use the money to roll without my consent.
On top of that, you fuckers lock my savings in the pretext for retirement.

I don't need your fucking interests....just return my money when I am 55!


Hang those PAP maggots cockroaches with piano wires from lamp posts to make them dance before it is too late and we have no more CPF to get back.
image-6-for-dictators-meet-their-demise-gallery-813635594.jpg


BBQ those PAP maggots cockroaches before it is too late and we have no more CPF to get back.
Cut a few more arseholes into those PAP maggots cockroaches to let out their shit before it is too late and we have no more CPF to get back.
Make those PAP maggots cockroaches eat joss sticks and candle wax before it is too late and we have no more CPF to get back.
 
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