I see that NTUC is offering funeral services
I thought that people were joking about NTUC getting into everything.
Thanks for the info.
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Anyone living in a condo & having problems with leaks?
- Thread starter johnny333
- Start date
I see that NTUC is offering funeral services
I thought that people were joking about NTUC getting into everything.
Thanks for the info.
It's from a drainage or water pipe that runs underneath your tiles. It's a common problem in all high rise buildings. I faced the same issue way back in 1985.
My apartment has so far 3 water pipe leaks. There are from the water pipes concealed in the walls. All are caused by corrosion of water pipe joints.
It is never too difficult to locate the leak as most water pipes in the apartment are concealed in the wall except when running in the ceiling across the apartment.
When pipes are running embedded in walls and they leak, the surface of the walls will always be damped. Surface inspection and finger feeling will usually tell to location of the leak; if not, using some moisture detecting device such as a sensitive ohm meter will be able to tell the location of the leak. Other methods such as painting the suspected wall with white wash maybe able to locate the leak. When a location of the leak is suspected, use a metal detector to locate the water pipe route and drill test holes on the wall using a small drill. If there is a leak in the wall, the hole will be soon filled with water.
It is only difficult to locate the leak when the pipe is concealed behind the walls in a duct. Water dampness cannot be detected from outside the wall. One of my 3 water pipe leaks was located in the duct that cannot be inspected. The Contractor quoted me $500/= just to break the wall to find the leak. I resisted and subsequently lowered a web camera into the duct and recorded video to find out where was the leak. When the leak was found, a small hole was all that was required to repair the leak.
In your case, if the leak is from the ceiling, it might be from pipes that run in the ceiling and not from your apartment i.e. if you cannot locate any leak and did not find any water damped walls. You and your neighbor will have to solve the problem jointly. If needed be, engage an experienced plumber and not Joe, the plumber..
It is never too difficult to locate the leak as most water pipes in the apartment are concealed in the wall except when running in the ceiling across the apartment.
When pipes are running embedded in walls and they leak, the surface of the walls will always be damped. Surface inspection and finger feeling will usually tell to location of the leak; if not, using some moisture detecting device such as a sensitive ohm meter will be able to tell the location of the leak. Other methods such as painting the suspected wall with white wash maybe able to locate the leak. When a location of the leak is suspected, use a metal detector to locate the water pipe route and drill test holes on the wall using a small drill. If there is a leak in the wall, the hole will be soon filled with water.
It is only difficult to locate the leak when the pipe is concealed behind the walls in a duct. Water dampness cannot be detected from outside the wall. One of my 3 water pipe leaks was located in the duct that cannot be inspected. The Contractor quoted me $500/= just to break the wall to find the leak. I resisted and subsequently lowered a web camera into the duct and recorded video to find out where was the leak. When the leak was found, a small hole was all that was required to repair the leak.
In your case, if the leak is from the ceiling, it might be from pipes that run in the ceiling and not from your apartment i.e. if you cannot locate any leak and did not find any water damped walls. You and your neighbor will have to solve the problem jointly. If needed be, engage an experienced plumber and not Joe, the plumber..
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From what I know when the neighbour had the leaking problems he simply complained to the condo management. They sent some people to check my apartment & were not able to find any leaks.
So at this point in time I don't even know if the leak is on my side or at my neighbours
I doubt the condo people are that experienced I think they are just handy men. Unfortunately the onus is on me to proof whether or not the problem is on my side:(
In your opinion who would be the best people to call, a plumber or water proofing specialists
\\\
The main culprit is bad water proofing........... either badly done or quality of the waterproof matl is lousy
I hv spent a lot of money repairing such defects after 10yrs of stay in my landed property
If it is between the plumber and water proofing specialist, I would choose water proofing specialist who has non-destructive testing tools such as thermographic scan or camera that can detect where is the leak. I already have this experience that this plumber asking for $500/= to break down the wall to find the leak. I did not trust him as he was asking me where I bought mine metal pipe locator when he saw me using it to locate the concealed pipes.
From what I know when the neighbour had the leaking problems he simply complained to the condo management. They sent some people to check my apartment & were not able to find any leaks.
So at this point in time I don't even know if the leak is on my side or at my neighbours
I doubt the condo people are that experienced I think they are just handy men. Unfortunately the onus is on me to proof whether or not the problem is on my side:(
In your opinion who would be the best people to call, a plumber or water proofing specialists
Was going to contact a water proofing specialist. Happy to hear that they are equipped to do non destructive testing because I'm still concerned about whether the problem is really on my side. If possible I want to avoid unnecessary hacking.
Will have to rely on the advice of the water proofing experts.
Thanks for the info.
Hi Johnny 333, found the ruling already. It is based on Section 101 (8) of the Building maintenance and strata management act.
http://www.singproperian.com/blog/2013/4/17/interfloor-leakage
http://www.singproperian.com/blog/2013/4/17/interfloor-leakage
Hi according to this ST news, the 50:50 sharing basis was changed to 100% after the law changed in Apr 2005 and the ruling of this case in Aug 2005.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/RealEdge/conversations/messages/309
Right you are bro. Here is the extract fro BCA guidebook - up to Johnny to prove otherwise.
"Inter-floor leaks
If there is an inter-floor leak, you and your neighbour are required to jointly carry
out an investigation to establish the cause of the leak and proceed with the repair
works. You should also both resolve the cost of repair. In cases like this, it is presumed
that the leak has originated from the upper floor unit unless the owner can
prove otherwise. Therefore, the owner of the upper floor unit cannot claim that
the leak has not originated from a defect in his unit. He has to jointly investigate
the cause with his lower-floor neighbour and proceed with any repairs required."
http://www.bca.gov.sg/BMSM/others/strata_living.pdf
"Inter-floor leaks
If there is an inter-floor leak, you and your neighbour are required to jointly carry
out an investigation to establish the cause of the leak and proceed with the repair
works. You should also both resolve the cost of repair. In cases like this, it is presumed
that the leak has originated from the upper floor unit unless the owner can
prove otherwise. Therefore, the owner of the upper floor unit cannot claim that
the leak has not originated from a defect in his unit. He has to jointly investigate
the cause with his lower-floor neighbour and proceed with any repairs required."
http://www.bca.gov.sg/BMSM/others/strata_living.pdf
Have talked to the management & they told me about the changes to the law.
If the neighbour insists on my taking 100% of the cost then I am going to escalate this matter through whatever channels are available. Just because of an unreasonable "foreigner" they changed the rules
Looks like the authorities are passing the buck to make it easier for themselves.
Typical civil service mentality.
Hi Johnny, do not be too upset by the legality of the matter. Leaking problem is very frustrating for both parties. Try identifying the cause of the leak first. For all you know, the solution is a very simple one. Don't trust those so-called tradesman too much.Have talked to the management & they told me about the changes to the law.
If the neighbour insists on my taking 100% of the cost then I am going to escalate this matter through whatever channels are available. Just because of an unreasonable "foreigner" they changed the rules
Looks like the authorities are passing the buck to make it easier for themselves.
Typical civil service mentality.
Firstly, it will be good to know the severity of the leak. Is it
1. Water dripping at all times (even at night) or only at certain time of the day?
2. Or only Bubbles forming beneath the paintwork on the roof
Leaking at a constant rate into the night can be caused simply by a toilet cistern where the faulty ball valve allows water to drip at an unnoticeable rate through the overflow or a leaking tap in the wash area that drips water once in a few seconds. Most plumbers without the experience will brush off such likely cause as rubbish. Personally I have encountered leak caused by such seemly unlikely source. Usually the effect is dampness and water dripping at intervals in the unit below. I suffered that once, went to check my neighbors fixture, and found that their toilet cistern was leaking without her knowledge. She got it repaired and the plumber actually said it is not the cause but my problem was solved after that.
If the leak is especially bad during day time, then it could be due to choke and leaking drain pipe, where water cannot flow off and stays in the pipe, leaking through the pipe. Clearing the pipe may solve the problem. A way to test, is to pour pails of water down the sink. If water cannot discharge quickly, the drain pipe is choked. If your neighbor's leak increased, it is quite likely to be caused by the drain pipe. Even leak from air cond drain pipe can be bad. It happened to one of my relatives. The characteristics is that it occurs usually at night when air cond is on.
The worse is leaking from concealed water supply pipe. For such case, pressure grouting or water proofing will be of no help until the leaking pipe is repaired. This leak will be consistent, 24/7. The best solution will be to abandon the concealed pipe and rerun a new set of pipes (exposed)
Just sharing some personal encounters.
Have talked to the management & they told me about the changes to the law.
If the neighbour insists on my taking 100% of the cost then I am going to escalate this matter through whatever channels are available. Just because of an unreasonable "foreigner" they changed the rules
Looks like the authorities are passing the buck to make it easier for themselves.
Typical civil service mentality.
you can try this thing call Polyurethane (PU) Grouting. it involves drilling some holes at the bottom of the slab and then inject PU grout at very high pressure.
for my case (I live at the upper unit with the alleged leaking), I share the cost with my neighbour. Each pay $400. Not cheap but at least no hacking involved. So far (about 1 year), so good.
I'm actually trying to be proactive. The management & neighbour haven't even approached me regarding any leaks. Just the estates handyman trying to discover the source of the leaks.
The more I find out, the more I'm disappointed with the authorities for their vague guidelines. What is the rational of a 50/50 shared responsibility for HDB but a 100% responsibility for condos
90+% of Sporeans life in apartments & with such poor guidelines it is going to cause frustrations.Fortunately I'm not that old & have the time to deal with such problems but I can imagine the problems senior citizens or busy adults may have trying to sort out these problems.
please fix it and pay 100%. be kind to your neighbors below who have to put up with your stinking waste water. 
What BCA gave are just guidelines on how to deal with interfloor leaks. It is not a rule or regulation. The cost bearing will still have to depend on the actual cause of the leak. For example, if it is found the leak is caused by the concealed pipes of the lower unit running along the ceiling, then, there is no reason for the upper unit to bear the cost of the repair and vice versa.
The agreement should be divided into 2 parts, the detection of leak and the repair of leak. Both upper and lower unit should work together to engage the specialist to do the detection first. The repair of leak will come after.
Usually, the lower unit should not have any drain pipe concealed in the ceiling if a leak is found in the ceiling. Turning of the water supply in the lower unit will confirm this .
The agreement should be divided into 2 parts, the detection of leak and the repair of leak. Both upper and lower unit should work together to engage the specialist to do the detection first. The repair of leak will come after.
Usually, the lower unit should not have any drain pipe concealed in the ceiling if a leak is found in the ceiling. Turning of the water supply in the lower unit will confirm this .
Have talked to the management & they told me about the changes to the law.
If the neighbour insists on my taking 100% of the cost then I am going to escalate this matter through whatever channels are available. Just because of an unreasonable "foreigner" they changed the rules
Looks like the authorities are passing the buck to make it easier for themselves.
Typical civil service mentality.
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