Anyone living in a condo & having problems with leaks?

johnny333 · Jul 27, 2014

I'm staying in a condo & recently the neighbours below are complaining of a water leak from above. It seems that the leak is coming from above, i.e. from my unit.
However I haven't done any renovations & I don't see any evidence of leaking problems in my unit

However the management says that I am responsible because the leak is coming from above.

I may have to tear up the floor of my kitchen to see if there is any hidden leaks. I'm obviously unhappy with the situation. If I tear up my perfectly good floor & don't find any leaks then who is going to pay the costs? Even if there is an underlying problem, am I responsible for it since I haven't actively done anything to my unit such as hacking the floors. :confused:

Welcome any feedback on where I stand legally in this matter. Any tips on how I can handle the condos management?

virus · Jul 27, 2014

get expensive alvin tosue them for deframation............lolz

but before, read page 7

http://www.bca.gov.sg/bmsm/others/strata_living.pdf

virus · Jul 27, 2014

you got hope

2) Who should pay for repairs to rectify water leakage between 2 units?

Ans : It is the duty of an owner of a unit to keep it in a good condition so as not to cause annoyance to others. When leakage occurs between 2 units, one above and one below, the owners who jointly owned the concrete slab separating the 2 units are responsible for the repairs. The owners should get together to investigate and identify the cause of the leakage and proceed with the necessary repairs. They should also resolve the costs of repairs between themselves. If any dispute in the costs of the repairs should arise, the owner could file an application to the Strata Titles Board to settle such disputes as provided in section 103 of the Land Titles (Strata) Act (Chapter 158).

If the complaint is referred to the Commissioner of Buildings, the Commissioner may serve a Notice directing both owners to carry out the necessary repairs. The Notice is to be strictly complied with and the Buildings and Common Property (Maintenance and Management) Act (Chapter 30) has provision to take recalcitrant owners to tasks.

http://www.redas.com/einformation/pu/handbook/bca/990809.htm

johnny333 · Jul 27, 2014

virus said:
you got hope

2) Who should pay for repairs to rectify water leakage between 2 units?

Ans : It is the duty of an owner of a unit to keep it in a good condition so as not to cause annoyance to others. When leakage occurs between 2 units, one above and one below, the owners who jointly owned the concrete slab separating the 2 units are responsible for the repairs. The owners should get together to investigate and identify the cause of the leakage and proceed with the necessary repairs. They should also resolve the costs of repairs between themselves. If any dispute in the costs of the repairs should arise, the owner could file an application to the Strata Titles Board to settle such disputes as provided in section 103 of the Land Titles (Strata) Act (Chapter 158).

If the complaint is referred to the Commissioner of Buildings, the Commissioner may serve a Notice directing both owners to carry out the necessary repairs. The Notice is to be strictly complied with and the Buildings and Common Property (Maintenance and Management) Act (Chapter 30) has provision to take recalcitrant owners to tasks.

http://www.redas.com/einformation/pu/handbook/bca/990809.htm

Understand that we are jointly responsible since we both share the ceiling/floor. Since I haven't done anything I suspect it may be caused by shoddy workmanship of Far East, they are reputed to cut corners :rolleyes:

I don't see how I can keep the floor in better condition since it is in it's original condition. Never been hacked, re-tiled,.... I've only added new cabinets when I moved in. So I think there is going to be a dispute:(

Do you recommend I refer the case to the Commissioner of Buildings :confused:

Will I need to get a lawyer to handle the case?

Seee3 · Jul 27, 2014

Why focus on dispute instead of repairing the leak. Once the unit below my in-law's complain of leak. I went down, saw the leak in their bedroom, narrowed down the possibility to the drain pipe in her balcony. Bought a can of quick drying cement/grout. Seal the edge of the floor trap and no more leak. It only costs $10 plus and everybody lives happily ever after. A small chip of the sealant can cause a leak if that area is frequently wet. Problem with engaging contractor is they will make a mountain out of molehill and suggest hacking up everything.

LeMans2011 · Jul 27, 2014

johnny333 said:
I'm staying in a condo & recently the neighbours below are complaining of a water leak from above. It seems that the leak is coming from above, i.e. from my unit.
However I haven't done any renovations & I don't see any evidence of leaking problems in my unit

However the management says that I am responsible because the leak is coming from above.

I may have to tear up the floor of my kitchen to see if there is any hidden leaks. I'm obviously unhappy with the situation. If I tear up my perfectly good floor & don't find any leaks then who is going to pay the costs? Even if there is an underlying problem, am I responsible for it since I haven't actively done anything to my unit such as hacking the floors.

Welcome any feedback on where I stand legally in this matter. Any tips on how I can handle the condos management?

Where is the leak coming from? I would have thought condo kitchens have false ceilings above... why would any water pipes be buried in the kitchen floor? I used to have this issue of upstairs leaking down my yard, ie washer area... yes, due to FEO shoddy workmanship. They indeed tore up my upstairs neighbours floor and rectify the broken pipes which was buried within.

johnny333 · Jul 28, 2014

Seee3 said:
Why focus on dispute instead of repairing the leak. Once the unit below my in-law's complain of leak. I went down, saw the leak in their bedroom, narrowed down the possibility to the drain pipe in her balcony. Bought a can of quick drying cement/grout. Seal the edge of the floor trap and no more leak. It only costs $10 plus and everybody lives happily ever after. A small chip of the sealant can cause a leak if that area is frequently wet. Problem with engaging contractor is they will make a mountain out of molehill and suggest hacking up everything.

The condo service people checked my unit & could not find any leaks. Suspect that the the leak is in the drainage pipes that is buried under the floor of the kitchen

johnny333 · Jul 28, 2014

LeMans2011 said:
Where is the leak coming from? I would have thought condo kitchens have false ceilings above... why would any water pipes be buried in the kitchen floor? I used to have this issue of upstairs leaking down my yard, ie washer area... yes, due to FEO shoddy workmanship. They indeed tore up my upstairs neighbours floor and rectify the broken pipes which was buried within.

If the leak is from my apartment then it is hidden & would require hacking of the floors to reveal & rectify the problem. It may be due to a faulty pipe or drainage pipe. There is a drainage pipe in my kitchen but don't know if it is the cause of the problem.

In your case who picked up the cost of the repairs :confused:

Did you share the cost with the neighbours :confused:

crossroads · Jul 28, 2014

johnny333 said:
The condo service people checked my unit & could find any leaks. Suspect that the the leak is in the drainage pipes that is buried under the floor of the kitchen

This same issue happened to my mum's flat last year. We had to go to see the people from the unit above and they were not very cooperative but at the end of the day they still had to open up their unit to allow the contractors to investigate. The leak was finally traced to as you say, they drainage pipes.
To put this in perspective, my mum's unit is quite old. She bought it as a resale flat in 1988.

Seee3 · Jul 28, 2014

johnny333 said:
The condo service people checked my unit & could not find any leaks. Suspect that the the leak is in the drainage pipes that is buried under the floor of the kitchen

Not sure if it is feasible for you to stop using that kitchen sink for a day or 2. Then check with your neighbor if the leak still there. If yes, then at least you know it's not the buried drain pipe. If there is no leak then you may ask the contractor to see if it is possible to abandon the old pipe and create a new discharge pipe. It is nightmarish to hack up the floor.

johnny333 · Jul 28, 2014

crossroads said:
This same issue happened to my mum's flat last year. We had to go to see the people from the unit above and they were not very cooperative but at the end of the day they still had to open up their unit to allow the contractors to investigate. The leak was finally traced to as you say, they drainage pipes.
To put this in perspective, my mum's unit is quite old. She bought it as a resale flat in 1988.

I don't mind cooperating but my concern is with the cost.

If the problem is with my drainage pipes then what is considered fair in the sharing of repair costs :confused:

I will have to hack my floors, fix the leaks, & retile the floor. It is not going to be cheap:(

In your case who ended up paying for the repairs or was the cost shared between your mum & the neighbours :confused:

crossroads · Jul 28, 2014

johnny333 said:
I don't mind cooperating but my concern is with the cost.

If the problem is with my drainage pipes then what is considered fair in the sharing of repair costs
I will have to hack my floors, fix the leaks, & retile the floor. It is not going to be cheap:(

In your case who ended up paying for the repairs or was the cost shared between your mum & the neighbours

The cost was shared. Some HDB approved contractors were engaged to do the job at the above unit and at the end of the day we had to fork out a few hundred dollars for our portion of the cost but now about a year later, everything is looking good.

johnny333 · Jul 28, 2014

Seee3 said:
Not sure if it is feasible for you to stop using that kitchen sink for a day or 2. Then check with your neighbor if the leak still there. If yes, then at least you know it's not the buried drain pipe. If there is no leak then you may ask the contractor to see if it is possible to abandon the old pipe and create a new discharge pipe. It is nightmarish to hack up the floor.

Maybe I can use the sink in the utility area? It is going to be very inconvenient but doable for the short term. It may help to pinpoint the problem.

Once the problem area is pinpointed, there is still the problem of a long term fix. Who is going to pay for it :confused:

Any ideas on what is considered fair in these cases, a sharing of costs 50%/50%, 60/40, 70/30,...

It is not practical to create an alternative discharge system because space is very tight. It is a very small kitchen, more like a corridor which is common in new condos.

johnny333 · Jul 28, 2014

crossroads said:
The cost was shared. Some HDB approved contractors were engaged to do the job at the above unit and at the end of the day we had to fork out a few hundred dollars for our portion of the cost but now about a year later, everything is looking good.

A few hundred is quite cheap. Did it include re-tiling the floors :confused:

Mind sharing the percentage of shared costs 50/50, 60/40,... :confused:

Seee3 · Jul 28, 2014

johnny333 said:
Maybe I can use the sink in the utility area? It is going to be very inconvenient but doable for the short term. It may help to pinpoint the problem.

Once the problem area is pinpointed, there is still the problem of a long term fix. Who is going to pay for it Any ideas on what is considered fair in these cases, a sharing of costs 50%/50%, 60/40, 70/30,...

It is not practical to create an alternative discharge system because space is very tight. It is a very small kitchen, more like a corridor which is common in new condos.

I think condo mc has guideline on cost sharing. To me 60/40 is reasonable. Is the leak very bad or just peeling paint work of their ceiling? If it is just peeling paint work, then can consider pouring quick dry cement in watery form slowing into the discharge. If lucky, some of the cement will settle at the leak and harden. Just a wild suggestion I have done before. Must pour intermittently about half a glass each time. Good luck

looneytan · Jul 28, 2014

any plumber or contractor worth his salt should be able to identify source of leakage without having to tear up the whole unit, repair can be done in many ways depend on the cause from the simple grouting to having to remove floor tile to replace water pipe or redo waterproof layer

for HDB it's 50/50 between upper and lower floor, in my case in a condo few years ago I had to bear the total cost

Romagnum · Jul 28, 2014

Rich people got rich people problem.

Many private home owners are assholes and make life difficult for each other.

Of cocurse there are HDB assholes too, but proportionately less. Can cham siong.

crossroads · Jul 28, 2014

johnny333 said:
A few hundred is quite cheap. Did it include re-tiling the floors

Mind sharing the percentage of shared costs 50/50, 60/40,...

Sorry bro, cant help you very much here. There was some hacking involved because my mum came to my place for the day when it was too noisy, but just for a day only. After that the leak stopped. I guess they must have isolated the problem quite quickly. As to how the cost was split, I also have no idea.

ginfreely · Jul 28, 2014

johnny333 said:
I'm staying in a condo & recently the neighbours below are complaining of a water leak from above. It seems that the leak is coming from above, i.e. from my unit.
However I haven't done any renovations & I don't see any evidence of leaking problems in my unit

However the management says that I am responsible because the leak is coming from above.

I may have to tear up the floor of my kitchen to see if there is any hidden leaks. I'm obviously unhappy with the situation. If I tear up my perfectly good floor & don't find any leaks then who is going to pay the costs? Even if there is an underlying problem, am I responsible for it since I haven't actively done anything to my unit such as hacking the floors.

Welcome any feedback on where I stand legally in this matter. Any tips on how I can handle the condos management?

Hi I have experienced this twice. First as the below unit, which I was advised the cost sharing is 100% borne by top floor unit for condo, while for HDB is 50:50 sharing. Can't remember which ruling it is but the condo manager was involved. The second time was the condo manager said it was my unit leaking and the below units wanted me to pay them. So I called a water proofing specialist to check and he managed to trace the leaking to be due to the below unit's bath tub.

ginfreely · Jul 28, 2014

looneytan said:
any plumber or contractor worth his salt should be able to identify source of leakage without having to tear up the whole unit, repair can be done in many ways depend on the cause from the simple grouting to having to remove floor tile to replace water pipe or redo waterproof layer

for HDB it's 50/50 between upper and lower floor, in my case in a condo few years ago I had to bear the total cost

So what did you do for your condo and how much did it cost? I also worried when my unit will start leaking and the cost.

Anyone living in a condo & having problems with leaks?

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