• IP addresses are NOT logged in this forum so there's no point asking. Please note that this forum is full of homophobes, racists, lunatics, schizophrenics & absolute nut jobs with a smattering of geniuses, Chinese chauvinists, Moderate Muslims and last but not least a couple of "know-it-alls" constantly sprouting their dubious wisdom. If you believe that content generated by unsavory characters might cause you offense PLEASE LEAVE NOW! Sammyboy Admin and Staff are not responsible for your hurt feelings should you choose to read any of the content here.

    The OTHER forum is HERE so please stop asking.

Open letter from a singaporean political refugee, ho juan thai

Narong Wongwan

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
May I ask why the SG govt withdraw your passport?
Did they know you are holding another passport, if it is?
Did you manage to get another SG passport?

I can't go into details or I'll be identified.
Apparently another country alerted SG govt that I was suspected of involvement in criminal activities overseas.
Note that they have no evidence or any proof....pap govt also did not bother to clarify.
Just summoned me and confiscated my passport....no charges whatsoever.
Went thru many avenues to appeal....as usual no sight no sound except for that motherhood statement.
Finally returned to me after about 2 years without any explanation.
Mind you my passport wasnt an issue and wasn't even taken away before when I was in prison overseas and deported back afterwards.

I found out that many sinkies who lost their passport frequently (suspected passport sellers) also were in same shoes as I. Passport 'privileges' withdrawn.
 
Last edited:

Charlie99

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Sorry to hear that.
Any way, now you have your SG passport, and able to renew it?


I can't go into details or I'll be identified.
Apparently another country alerted SG govt that I was suspected of involvement in criminal activities overseas.
Note that they have no evidence or any proof....pap govt also did not bother to clarify.
Just summoned me and confiscated my passport....no charges whatsoever.
Went thru many avenues to appeal....as usual no sight no sound except for that motherhood statement.
Finally returned to me after about 2 years without any explanation.
Mind you my passport wasnt an issue and wasn't even taken away before when I was in prison overseas and deported back afterwards.

I found out that many sinkies who lost their passport frequently (suspected passport sellers) also were in same shoes as I. Passport 'privileges' withdrawn.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Every citizen has the right to a travel document / passport. It is not privilege as they like to claim. Typical PAP taking advantage of the locals. They cannot take away your passport based on raw information. Either they need documentary evidence of a criminal conviction or a court tendered statement of an accomplice or or witness implicating the person whose passport is subject of seizure. The Minister also has the power to draw up regulations for those who repeatedly lose their passport or sell it. Also the purported crime conviction must have reputational impact to the country.

National security matters falls under a separate category.
 

GoldenDragon

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Technically yes. But passport now impounded due to another pending case.....else I won't be stuck in sinkieland now and will likely be in LOS.

I have friends in your 'shoes.' Some charged and convicted. Others not. From what I know, it is either drug trafficking or human trafficking that one's passport is taken away. One if them had to go overseas for legit reasons. Appealed and got it. Not passport but some travek documents.
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
Every citizen has the right to a travel document / passport. It is not privilege as they like to claim. Typical PAP taking advantage of the locals. They cannot take away your passport based on raw information. Either they need documentary evidence of a criminal conviction or a court tendered statement of an accomplice or or witness implicating the person whose passport is subject of seizure. The Minister also has the power to draw up regulations for those who repeatedly lose their passport or sell it. Also the purported crime conviction must have reputational impact to the country.

National security matters falls under a separate category.

They are doing it in the UK and OZ too.

http://rt.com/news/uk-citizenship-revoked-drones-771/

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/12/10/pass-d10.html

A passport is not a right protected by law.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
These are national security issues - there will be thick dossier behind every case.

A country cannot deny a citizen to travel unless he contravenes some law. The privilege stuff is bullshit. It like telling a citizen that being served at a Government counter is a privilege. Next thing you know they will say going to a public school is a privilege. These are unalienable right.

It certainly a privilege for a foreigners to be granted a Singpore citizen as no foreigners has the right to a Singapore citizen even he meets all the conditions that has been prescribed. In practice however they give it away to any tom, dick and harry.




They are doing it in the UK and OZ too.

http://rt.com/news/uk-citizenship-revoked-drones-771/

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/12/10/pass-d10.html

A passport is not a right protected by law.
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
These are national security issues - there will be thick dossier behind every case.

A country cannot deny a citizen to travel unless he contravenes some law.

It's either a right or it isn't. National security may well be valid in most cases but once that option is available, it can easily be misused and abused by any government to target those who they consider to be a political threat rather than national secrurity concern.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
It is a right. It is your right to live in peace. It is not a privilege. That right goes away when you commit a crime and you lose your freedom for while. The same goes for you passport.

Agree on the misuse and the abuse component. That is why when lawyers intervene, your passport is returned immediately unless you have a crime conviction, case pending or national security issue that can be substantiated.

I heard this privilege bullshit for quite a while.



It's either a right or it isn't. National security may well be valid in most cases but once that option is available, it can easily be misused and abused by any government to target those who they consider to be a political threat rather than national secrurity concern.
 

kingrant

Alfrescian
Loyal
Liddat, Mr Ho should write to janil Butohcherry for ideas!??

He should have taken a leave from all the leftist chaps that went to Malaysia, India, UK etc. Just become a citizen of that country and later apply for entry. Eventually the govt will relent. Now he is stuck.

Just look at Putcheary's son. Father a Malaysian was banned same with Otto and his family. Now one son is MO and the other was RI teacher.
 

tonychat

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
It is a right. It is your right to live in peace. It is not a privilege. That right goes away when you commit a crime and you lose your freedom for while. The same goes for you passport.

Agree on the misuse and the abuse component. That is why when lawyers intervene, your passport is returned immediately unless you have a crime conviction, case pending or national security issue that can be substantiated.

I heard this privilege bullshit for quite a while.

hey, dumbfuck... i think you don't have any lawyer friends, oh .. you don't have any friends anyway..

by law, the passport is not a right, it is a privilege given by the state.

you don't know anything and yet still keep on going like a fucktard.

i suggest that you do a proper search or at least called up a lawyer and ask.. of course you need to pay.
 

BuiKia

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
Found this, dunno who to believe.


This is a sad case, sadly stupid case in fact. Here’s why.

HJT was apparently accused of making speeches during the 1976 elections which incited the Chinese-speaking to violence on the language issue.

He escaped arrest by ISD officers and managed to find his way to UK, where he is officially considered a refugee.


The C-word; But What about the F-Word?

But now he says that his living in London is not his Choice.

It was his choice to say what he did during the election, it was his choice to escape arrest and his choice to find his way to London.

Of course, he would find the opportunity to blame everyone else for his predicament – including whoever advised him to “seek refuge somewhere else for (his) own safety.”

Yes, it’s everyone else’s Fault, except his own.

Stand up to your responsibility, HJT!


Proud or Humble?

I can decide whether HJT is a proud or humble man.

First, he proudly alluded that it was his case that caused the government to change the Constitution in 1985 to “deprive any citizen living abroad for more than 10 years without returning once, of their citizenship”.

I suppose it is people like him whom we have to "thank" for such drastic legislative measures. (Similarly we must thank CSJ for finding loopholes in various laws that causes the government to react by amending or imposing more stringent laws).

Then suddenly he pretends to be humble – for he describes himself as only capable of mounting “innocuous and feeble” political challenges.

But he forgets one important fact - if his challenge was so "innocuous and feeble", why did he take the drastic step of having to bolt to somewhere so far away. Of course, it is not unexpected that he is trying to downplay the impact of what he said during that fateful election.


Acting Blur

The reality is that HJT is a man prone to “acting blur”.

He somehow foiled ISD’s arrest, and then absconded from Singapore to faraway UK. If he had some guilty conscience of what he did at all, instead of suffering all these consequences, he would have confronted the men who came to take him away.

As a steadfast politician, he would have stood up to his actions during the election and fought his case like an honourable man.

Now he wants us to believe him that “what the police wished to question (him) about has never been clear to anyone”. He is plainly underestimating our intelligence.

Besides, by darting away so swiftly, he certainly did not give the ISD officers much chance to tell him in the first place what they wanted to bring in for.

Then he goes on to claim that he deserves to be treated just “as any Singaporean since (he has) committed no crime".

Maybe we should remind him that resisting arrest by the authorities is a criminal offence. So is leaving the country without undergoing the proper immigration processes.

Hence what is clear is that he is a man who likes to fake ignorance. In case HJT is no longer familiar with local-talk after 32 years, that’s called “acting blur”.

And he thinks we are blur enough to believe that his conscience is clear.


Loyalty, Sure or Not

When he went on to proclaim his loyalty to Singapore, I nearly gagged.

The reason why he is taking this crusade is much less honourable than that.

In fact it is rather comical – the reason why he is fighting for passports for himself and his son is ..... an angry wife!

The (Thai?) wife wants to visit her homeland and HJT has been given an ultimatum to sort out their son’s citizenship as soon as possible!

Yes, he is correct to want to assert his right, but only a right to appease his wife. Nothing more.

His further faux-loyalty is that despite shirking his responsibility to stand up and be held legally accountable for his actions during the election, he wants to make sure that his son (and himself) enjoy the benefits and privileges of a Singapore citizen.

It not wrong to want to make sure his son is NOT a second-class citizen in UK, or to have to send him to Thailand for education. But what has he contributed to the nation for the last 32 years, except to come back to raise a ruckus now?

He clarifies that he is “just like anyone of (us) who cares and loves our Singapore”. I hope HJT will be more veracious – he desperately cares and loves his wife more, especially when she has angrily given him an ultimatum.

Anyway, he should have tested his own loyalty before he scooted. He can’t have his cake, and eat it (now).


Ministerial Intervention

HJT is not happy that Shanmugan ignores his “repeated” letters and gets away with it. Maybe we should remind him of how he ignored the ISD officers' call for him not to run when they came to bring him in. And, did HJT not literally get away with it too?

He then proclaims his full agreement with GCT when the latter apparently stated that “Singapore needs people that are ‘Pak See Bei Chao’”. He reminded us that the "sort of country we are and will be depends on the make up of our people”.

Let’s clear about this : HJT is the type we do NOT need because his “make-up” is very questionable. On seeing the ISD officers, the first thing that came across his mind was to “chao” and dive into the lemon grove!

Bo pak also chao! [.....did not fight also runaway]

He goes on to accuse the government now of plotting against him. He says that it can “rely on the SAF AWOL record” to disqualify him from standing for election in future.

HJT amazes me - he can’t even get back into the country, and he is already planning his political return. Anyway, after his laborious episode of 32 years and his current spate of lost logic, I doubt any of the Opposition parties would even touch him with a long pole for the coming elections.

I suggest to HJT not to think so far, yet.


Conclusion

Finally, I would like to know which Opposition party wants to mount a campaign to fight for HJT’s personal case. The prime candidate for taking up his case should be WP, since HJT got into trouble on its ticket during the 1976 election.

But I am sure WP is generous enough to let others share this bumbling case as a political cause célèbre.


Recommendation for HJT

As for him, I suggest to him to reflect on what he has done and more importantly whether the 5-steps he is proposing will get him those elusive passports.

I doubt so.

The Singapore authority does not want him back - it does not want to place him under ISA detention, but neither does it want to charge him in an open court.

In other word, he is a political inconvenience.

If the Singapore authority has its way, it would wish for HJT to live out his days in UK (or wherever else eg. Thailand).

But I think there are grounds for the Singapore authority to empathise with his plight, since he is a spent political force anyway. However, he must not pose as an embarrassment to anyone.

There is the price to pay and pride to swallow for what he wants.

If he regards his pride and mistaken sense of justice is more important than his son's future, he can go ahead and fight his case publicly.

The government is unlikely to admit any past mistake or grant HJT's re-entry publicly. And that is why HJT's tactics to rouse the people will be a total failure towards achieving his aim.

You do not play hard against hard, especially not when you are on weak grounds.

If HJT makes the correct moves, and even quietly show some remorse, even without admission of guilt, I believe the authorities might quietly live-and-let-live, and call it a day for his case.

Fighting this government openly will openly be a failure. (HJT to note)
 

dr.wailing

Alfrescian
Loyal
A country cannot deny a citizen to travel unless he contravenes some law. The privilege stuff is bullshit......

Not exactly accurate nowadays in the light of what is going on in Syria, Iraq and some parts of the Middle East.

Some EU countries such as the UK and France take a different view than yours.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
You must be gullible to believe this government. Every citizen has the right to leave and enter this country if they have not committed any crime or they do not pose a security threat. Why should it be a privilege.

This is the same bullshit I keep hearing about dual citizenship forbidden by law.

There is no law that says that it is privilege for getting a passport and that you must bend down and thank the Minister of Home Affairs for giving you a passport.

The word privilege has been happily used by the PAP for the last 2 decades. It does mean it is right. You have no right to enter the Istana but that privilege might be extended to you. Can you tell the difference now.

hey, dumbfuck... i think you don't have any lawyer friends, oh .. you don't have any friends anyway..

by law, the passport is not a right, it is a privilege given by the state.

you don't know anything and yet still keep on going like a fucktard.

i suggest that you do a proper search or at least called up a lawyer and ask.. of course you need to pay.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
The guy is a drama queen. Just because you stand for elections does not make you a brave or a superhero. Ask Gopalan Nair who also stood as candidate for WP. He is also now banned. Interestingly he sent an appeal to the govt to lift the ban and he will behave.

Found this, dunno who to believe.
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
You must be gullible to believe this government. Every citizen has the right to leave and enter this country if they have not committed any crime or they do not pose a security threat. Why should it be a privilege.

This is the same bullshit I keep hearing about dual citizenship forbidden by law.

There is no law that says that it is privilege for getting a passport and that you must bend down and thank the Minister of Home Affairs for giving you a passport.

The word privilege has been happily used by the PAP for the last 2 decades. It does mean it is right. You have no right to enter the Istana but that privilege might be extended to you. Can you tell the difference now.

You are aware that all passports belong to the state and not the holder.
 

Thick Face Black Heart

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
The guy is a drama queen. Just because you stand for elections does not make you a brave or a superhero. Ask Gopalan Nair who also stood as candidate for WP. He is also now banned. Interestingly he sent an appeal to the govt to lift the ban and he will behave.


Reminds me of Quek and Ng Teck Siong who habitually sit down at coffeeshop and reminiscence over how they contested election with JBJ and complain that younger generation don't appreciate their past sacrifices or even know their names.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Yes, all passports are state property. You can actually be charged in court for vandalism if you damage your passport deliberately. This is despite that you pay a fee and a bigger fee for a passport for more pages.

You are aware that all passports belong to the state and not the holder.
 
Top