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MH 17 and the Dutch Equation

scroobal

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Putin's arseluck was having so many Dutch passengers on that flight. There is a reason why the International Criminal Court is based in Hague. Even though Russia is not a ratifying member but it shows the tenacity of the Dutch to pursue criminals who commit crime against humanity. And they do it patiently.


20 July 2014 Last updated at 08:26
........Dutch PM Mark Rutte said he had told Russian President Vladimir Putin that time was "running out" to show he could help. Most crash victims were Dutch.

In a news conference on Saturday, Mr Rutte said he had had an "intense" phone call with Mr Putin.

"I told him 'Time is running out for you to show the world that you have good intentions','' Mr Rutte said.

He added that Dutch people were "furious" at pictures of bodies being carried across the open country, and called on the Russian president "to show that he will do what is expected of him and will exert his influence".

The BBC's Richard Galpin at the site says he saw bodies being removed by emergency workers, but it was not clear where they were being taken, or whether the workers were loyal to the rebels or the Kiev government.

The OSCE monitors were forced to walk to the field where the plane crashed
At the main site the bodies were without covering. Some lay alone. Others were grouped together amid the twisted metal, the bags and cases, the child's playing cards, the guide books, the laptop computer, the duty free whiskey bottle, the woman's hat.

A militiaman with the nickname "Grumpy" - he was squat and barrel-chested with poor teeth and carried a machine gun - harangued me when I asked if the rebels would now stop fighting.

"You are only here because foreigners are dead," he said. And the old story was repeated, the same I have heard on numerous roadblocks - the Western media were all capitalists doing the bidding of their American and EU masters.

When the OSCE turned up in a convoy "Grumpy" came into his own. Now he was a man of power. He halted the OSCE and told them they would have to go forward on foot.

Standoff with militia at crash site


German Chancellor Angela Merkel also spoke to Mr Putin on Saturday, urging his co-operation.

Monitors from the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) are at the crash site.

OSCE spokesman Michael Bociurkiw said access had improved compared to Friday and that the monitors were seeing parts of the terrain they had not seen before, but that their movements were still being restricted.

The monitors are there to observe the site ahead of the arrival of international investigators.

'Act of terrorism'
Tougher EU sanctions against Russia will be needed if Moscow does not change its "approach" to the downing of the plane, UK Prime Minister David Cameron has indicated.

He said the EU should stand up for its principles, amid claims Russia-backed rebels were involved.

Prime Minister David Cameron and his Australian counterpart Tony Abbott agreed the two countries would apply "further pressure" at the UN Security Council "for swift and unhindered access" to the site, Mr Cameron's office said.

British Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond said: "The world's eyes will be on Russia to see if she delivers on her obligations."


The UK urged Russia to use its influence over the rebels to improve access to the site
US Secretary of State John Kerry discussed the disaster in a phone conversation with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov.

Mr Kerry made clear that the US was "very concerned" over reports that bodies and debris from the site had been removed or tampered with, the state department said.

On Friday US President Barack Obama said the plane had been destroyed by a missile fired from a rebel area, and that insurgents would not be capable of carrying out such an attack without Moscow's support.

Russia denies any involvement and has rejected Western allegations that it is stoking the Ukraine conflict.

Ukraine's government has called Thursday's disaster an "act of terrorism" and released what it says are intercepted phone conversations that proved the plane was shot down by separatists.........
 

enterprise2

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Putin has created lots of enemies for Russia. For sure, the Dutch and Malaysians r going to whack any Russians they see for revenge!!
 

syed putra

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If you go after Putin, then should go after ukraine's Poroshenko also. He did not close down the airspace. I think ukraine used civilian aircraft to hide their military planes movement. Or purposely flew MH17 over the SAM batteries so that rebels will be blamed.
 

sochi2014

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Loyal
Putin days are gone! Look at his facial expressions in public after this incident. His eyes twitching and he looked uneasy.

Looks like his conscience is telling him he did wrong!! His support is dwindling. Wait till China stop supporting him. Then he will be alone and solitary.
 

kukubird58

Alfrescian
Loyal
Putin's arseluck was having so many Dutch passengers on that flight. There is a reason why the International Criminal Court is based in Hague. Even though Russia is not a ratifying member but it shows the tenacity of the Dutch to pursue criminals who commit crime against humanity. And they do it patiently.
Hahaha......yawnzzzzz.... Same shits, different days...
Again talking thru the arse n yet he think he is very knowledgeable....
Pse tell us or show example to back up your claims Dutch have the shown the tenacity to pursue criminals for crimes against humanity.....
 

frenchbriefs

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Dutch can go fuck themselves.....5 million russians died trying to fight the nazis in WWii....who are the freaking dutch and where were they?Russia defeated germany and created one of the most lasting legacy and ideology on earth....marxism and communism.
 
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scroobal

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Loyal
You don't go after the snakes tail, you go for the body. Thats is why the German and Dutch PM are talking to Putin and not the riff raffs that only can operate after receiving instructions from their puppet masters.

Micropolis was bought by ST. The Seagate chief went to see LHL. You don't deal with minions.


If you go after Putin, then should go after ukraine's Poroshenko also. He did not close down the airspace. I think ukraine used civilian aircraft to hide their military planes movement. Or purposely flew MH17 over the SAM batteries so that rebels will be blamed.
 

3_M

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Loyal
International justices is always relative and never absolute. Unlike local court, where there are police to carry out court's order, there isn't such enforcement in international justices. Hence international politics becomes a big factor in deciding whether justices is being carried out. I think it just hard luck if Russia and not some small countries is the culprit since there is nothing much ICC can do. Not even US would dare to go on a collision course with Russia.
 

scroobal

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Loyal
One good progress that has been made over the last 2 decades by the ICC and the international community by going after key individuals that perpetrated the crime on behalf of their country and not the country itself. This has yielded results. Libya handed over 2 of their Intelligence agents, so did a number of African and Eastern European countries.

Let see how this develops. It will take time but I am optimistic. Just like Lockerbie, this too must yield results.


International justices is always relative and never absolute. Unlike local court, where there are police to carry out court's order, there isn't such enforcement in international justices. Hence international politics becomes a big factor in deciding whether justices is being carried out. I think it just hard luck if Russia and not some small countries is the culprit since there is nothing much ICC can do. Not even US would dare to go on a collision course with Russia.
 

singveld

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
100% not crime against humanity. they were fighting a war with illegal govt , which gain power by using protesters to attack govt building.
They are looking for a military cargo jet, but a storm cause mh17 to divert slightly from previous path. The SA11 not connected to sophisated air defines network. to sa11 radar, it is just a dot. no one in ukraine want to shoot down a civilian jet. it is an mistake. Cause by protesters who overthrow the legal govt. arrest the protesters, send them to hague.
 

3_M

Alfrescian
Loyal
One good progress that has been made over the last 2 decades by the ICC and the international community by going after key individuals that perpetrated the crime on behalf of their country and not the country itself. This has yielded results. Libya handed over 2 of their Intelligence agents, so did a number of African and Eastern European countries.

Let see how this develops. It will take time but I am optimistic. Just like Lockerbie, this too must yield results.

It remains to be seen if ICC is effective against politicians from superpowers and whether other countries dare to arrest those individual in their territory without fearing political repercussion from the country concerns. As far as superpower like US, Russia, China are concern, they don't recognize the compulsory jurisdiction of international court.
 

3_M

Alfrescian
Loyal
100% not crime against humanity. they were fighting a war with illegal govt , which gain power by using protesters to attack govt building.
They are looking for a military cargo jet, but a storm cause mh17 to divert slightly from previous path. The SA11 not connected to sophisated air defines network. to sa11 radar, it is just a dot. no one in ukraine want to shoot down a civilian jet. it is an mistake. Cause by protesters who overthrow the legal govt. arrest the protesters, send them to hague.


As long as it not done intentionally, it not a war crime despite death of civilians. As for operations wise, don't think in times of war the SAM operator will have the time to verify the identity of the aircraft. Once the fire control radar is switch on, the enemy's aircraft will detect the signal and could possibly fire an anti-radiation missile back. It just a matter who fires first to gain the upperhand. Shit could happen if civilian aircraft are within the vicinity. Well likely an accident happened in the case of MH17
 

singveld

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Asset
As long as it not done intentionally, it not a war crime despite death of civilians. As for operations wise, don't think in times of war the SAM operator will have the time to verify the identity of the aircraft. Once the fire control radar is switch on, the enemy's aircraft will detect the signal and could possibly fire an anti-radiation missile back. It just a matter who fires first to gain the upperhand. Shit could happen if civilian aircraft are within the vicinity. Well likely an accident happened in the case of MH17

it is not intentional , no one want to shoot down a plane with women and children. even if you bring whoever to court, it is at most 20 years prison in europe. no one will be satisfy for such sentence.
 

Jah_rastafar_I

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Asset
Nobody gives a damn to the Dutch court. Just like the Lockerbie bombing, nobody will dare to touch Putin just as they dare not touch Gaddafi who masterminded the Lockerbie bombing and sent 2 calafare extras to be jailed in Scotland.

Instead, Putin should count his blessing that the rebels had shot down the correct plane, and not the other plane.

Out of the 3 planes that flew over at that time, Putin can afford to shoot down MH17 & SQ351, but not AI113 (which flew from Delhi to Birmingham).

Unlike Malaysia & Holland or Singapore &Denmark, India & UK are not another kucing kurap countries that can be easily brushed off. Cameron and esp Modi are not another Mickey Mouse PM like Najib or LHL whom Putin can easily bully.

Especially Modi, who is the most nationalist leader overwhelmingly elected by a fervourly nationalist voters on a very nationList platform, will have to takd strong action to justify his nationalist credentials. And unlike the civil and weak Manmmohan, Modi is as (perhaps even more) ruthless and unscrupolous as Putin himself.

Facing a strong leader, up-and-coming superpower and a geopolitical ally, Putin has no choice but to bow down.

If Putin were to behave as uncooperative and bochap as he is now, he will incur the wrath of the entire Indian nation. Indian mobs, drunk and undrunk, woud tear downthe russian embassy and start teh little russia riot in india.



Fuck la since when are Indians so garang? Would he dare to shoot down the China plane?
 

Dick4Bob2Suck

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Loyal
Fuck la since when are Indians so garang? Would he dare to shoot down the China plane?

Have you seen Indians overturn and burn Police cars belonging to a CHINESE run state? Chinese will hold a COI to strenuously get to the root of the matter. Any other questions like for example mix parentage like Indo/Chink creating retarded sons issues?
 

longbow

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Loyal
ICC is useless against Russia. Even for Libya, Gaddafi got away with it and was feted by the West.

Most likely scenario, Russia, maybe 5 to 6 years down the road make some settled compensatory payment to victims while at the same time admit no fault. At US$10M per person that is $3B which is small change for Russia - and everyone happy. Most families are very upset about the sudden loss. But in 5 to 6 years they have come to live with that fact and US$10M now looks pretty good - life goes on.

The issue of Ukraine is more important to Russia then it is to EU or US. US's main goal is Islamic terrorist and they need Russian help. EU main goal is a happy and placated Russia since they have common borders and energy needs.
 

kukubird58

Alfrescian
Loyal
One good progress that has been made over the last 2 decades by the ICC and the international community by going after key individuals that perpetrated the crime on behalf of their country and not the country itself. This has yielded results. Libya handed over 2 of their Intelligence agents, so did a number of African and Eastern European countries.

Let see how this develops. It will take time but I am optimistic. Just like Lockerbie, this too must yield results.
Hahaha.....double confirmed a retard......
Dig a hole and then jump in......and still clueless about it...
Quoting Lockerbie really shows your ignorance about ICC...the accused were not tried by ICC......
When it cums to facts u are caught bullshitting as usual
 

Sinkie

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
One good progress that has been made over the last 2 decades by the ICC and the international community by going after key individuals that perpetrated the crime on behalf of their country and not the country itself. This has yielded results. Libya handed over 2 of their Intelligence agents, so did a number of African and Eastern European countries.

Let see how this develops. It will take time but I am optimistic. Just like Lockerbie, this too must yield results.

Try putting Putin's photo and name on the ICC website if they dare......
 

Sinkie

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Whoever thinks the plane was not brought down intentionally, must have been fed on shit all your life.

Of course it was intentional, but of course it was not done by Russia or the pro-Russian militants. No fucking idiot will shoot down a civilian plane in its own territory and no civilian plane was ever shot down by mistaking it for a military plane. Whoever can aim that missile sure knows what target it is bringing down..............and all these point to Ukraine, since it has a few military planes shot down by the pro-Russians separatists..........so it exploded the issue by bringing down a civilian plane so as to bring in USA and EU to pressurize Russia.
 
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