• IP addresses are NOT logged in this forum so there's no point asking. Please note that this forum is full of homophobes, racists, lunatics, schizophrenics & absolute nut jobs with a smattering of geniuses, Chinese chauvinists, Moderate Muslims and last but not least a couple of "know-it-alls" constantly sprouting their dubious wisdom. If you believe that content generated by unsavory characters might cause you offense PLEASE LEAVE NOW! Sammyboy Admin and Staff are not responsible for your hurt feelings should you choose to read any of the content here.

    The OTHER forum is HERE so please stop asking.

Did this man fire the missile at MH17?

eErotica69

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
Did this man fire the missile at MH17?

he prime suspect behind the MH17 tragedy is the self-proclaimed defence minister of the Donetsk People's Republic, Igor Girkin.

According to the Sydney Morning Herald, the former intelligence officer is known by the name Strelkov - or "shooter" and has even shot his own troops for insubordination.

The spotlight fell on Girkin (left) after he reportedly posted a message on a Russian social media page, which read: "We did warn you - do not fly in our sky."

The post was later removed when it became clear that the plane was a civilian aircraft and not a Ukranian military plane.

The Sydney Morning Herald pointed out that "no amateur can bring down a passenger jet streaking across the sky."

"Don't be lulled into believing any trooper with a rocket-propelled grenade launcher on his shoulder could carry out this attack.

"The professionalism required points to Girkin and his Russian-backed separatists as the most likely suspects.

"They have captured missile batteries mounted on trucks, and are suspected to have been supplied with Russian-made 'needle' portable launchers that can be carried by a man," reads the report.

As Ukraine and pro-Russian separatists blamed each other for the crash of MH17 Boeing 777, a sophisticated missile system has been brought into the public limelight – the Russian-made 9K37 Buk.

Confirmation that a missile was involved will only come if someone admits firing one, or if crash investigators find shrapnel and other tell-tale signs on the aircraft debris and the bodies recovered.

Nevertheless, the use of a missile was raised soon after the MH17 disaster by a Ukrainian Interior Ministry official who said pro-Russian forces had used the missile to bring down the plane.

However, the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic has denied having missiles in its possession.

A medium-range surface-to-air missile such as Buk is necessary to bring down an aircraft at a cruising altitude as shoulder-fired missiles (called Manpads, or Man-Portable Air Defence System), favoured by insurgents worldwide for their portability, lack the range needed.

Manpads can only threaten commercial airliners during take-off and landing, when it is flying relatively low and slow. The earliest version of the Buk missile has a maximum engagement altitude of 14 kilometres. The MH17 was reportedly flying at about 33,000 feet (10km) high.

Airspace MH17 was in was deemed 'open'

According to a report in British newspaper The Guardian, the Ukrainian authorities had banned flights at 32,000ft (9.75km) and below in the area where MH17 crashed at the time of the incident, and the airspace it was flying was deemed "open". That airspace in eastern Ukraine is now closed to all civilian air traffic.

The radar-guided missile weighs just over half-a-tonne and is typically launched from the top of an armoured vehicle or a ship, in contrast to Manpads that can be carried and fired by a single person and are designed to attack low-flying aircraft and helicopters.

Various versions of the missile, carrying nicknames such as "Grizzly" and "Gadfly", have been fielded since 1979 in Russia, Ukraine, China and other countries.

It had seen combat on both sides of the 2008 South Ossetia war between Russia and Georgia, during which defence analysts noted the Russian Air Force had taken heavy casualties relative to the small Georgian military and could not develop an effective counter-measure against a missile system it created.

However, the question remains: If a missile brought down the MH17, who fired it?

"It's a very capable system, proven under real-world conditions," Foreign Policy magazine quoted a political risk consultancy Wikistrat researcher Andrew Bowen as saying, while noting that the system is difficult to use.

"These systems require a large amount of technical know-how, unlike these Manpads, which are basically 'point-and-shoot'," Bowen said.

Foreign Policy also reported that Ukraine has such missiles in its possession. However despite denials, so does Donetsk, which is said to have a missile system similar to Buk.

Donetsk had acquired Buk missiles, says report

The magazine quoted Russian newswire Itar-Tass as reporting on June 29 that Donetsk had acquired Buk missiles, and said the group had even bragged about its acquisition on Twitter.

The posting, also dated June 29, has since been removed and can only be viewed via Google’s cache.

"An Associated Press reporter spotted what was described as 'a launcher similar to the Buk missile system' near the town of Snizhne.

"On Thursday, a Twitter account associated with Maidan protest movement in Kiev posted a photograph purporting to show a Buk launcher in the town of Torez, which is near the crash site and has been the scene of fighting between separatist and government forces," the report added.

The report also noted that while Ukraine does have Buk missiles near the crash site, these missiles in the region were only used against Ukrainian government aircraft.

Meanwhile, deputy editor of the Polish magazine Dziennik Michal Potocki, who had been studying the conflict in Ukraine, agreed that the separatist group is responsible for shooting down the Malaysian airliner.

"It cannot be the Ukrainian side - they do not need to use surface-to-air missiles as the separatists do not have airplanes as for now. It was probably a missile system called Buk," Potocki told Malaysiakini in an email today.

He also pointed out that just before news broke that MH17 had crashed, separatist leader, Igor Strelkov, posted on a Russian social media site that two supposedly Ukrainian aircraft had been shot down, saying that they were "an Antonov and probably a Sukhoi".

"Only after we got the news that it was Boeing - the separatists started to blame the Ukrainian side," Potocki said.

MH17 had been using a Boeing 777-200ER aircraft for the Amsterdam-Kuala Lumpur flight, which is the same model used for flight MH370 that went missing on March 8.

All 295 on board perished in the incident.

http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/269149
 

Attachments

  • ruskie.jpg
    ruskie.jpg
    34.7 KB · Views: 536

chuckyworld

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
At the present, no one really knows who fire the BUK, only thing the west media will do put the blame on pro-Russia rebel and Putin.

Have they think about those rebel was once in the Ukraine army and has been train too, till they can find pieces of the missile no one really know who press the button.

It is not in Russia interest to do that, not that I am defending Russia, we all know what Russians are like they are no angel, in light of what US are doing, (supporting a coup in Ukraine where US interest are concern), they have more to gain than Russia shooting down MH17 if they can put the blame on Putin....:*:
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
It was in no one's interest to bring the civilian plane down. I believe people got that part. It was a error and a mistake. It was also gross negligence and manslaughter.

If it was not the Russians or the rebels that they support who then is left? The Ukrainians have no desire to shoot their own cargo planes down and the separatist rebels did not have planes that posed a threat. The Russians were also not flying in Ukrainian airspace.




At the present, no one really knows who fire the BUK, only thing the west media will do put the blame on pro-Russia rebel and Putin.

Have they think about those rebel was once in the Ukraine army and has been train too, till they can find pieces of the missile no one really know who press the button.

It is not in Russia interest to do that, not that I am defending Russia, we all know what Russians are like they are no angel, in light of what US are doing, (supporting a coup in Ukraine where US interest are concern), they have more to gain than Russia shooting down MH17 if they can put the blame on Putin....:*:
 
Last edited:

zeddy

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
We should hire him and sack all SAF scholars. With his daring spirit, no one would invade Singapore.

Don't be daft.. This is purely recklessness and pure evil on his part in shooting down a civilian plane especially from an Asian country like Malaysia that has no part whatsoever in the Russia - Ukraine conflict... This sick bastard and his equally retarded men can fight their war against the Ukraine Govt for all I care but they must stop being trigger happy towards the innocent..
 

steffychun

Alfrescian
Loyal
Don't be daft.. This is purely recklessness and pure evil on his part in shooting down a civilian plane especially from an Asian country like Malaysia that has no part whatsoever in the Russia - Ukraine conflict... This sick bastard and his equally retarded men can fight their war against the Ukraine Govt for all I care but they must stop being trigger happy towards the innocent..

my comment was for fun.
 

chuckyworld

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
It was in no one's interest to bring the civilian plane down. I believe people got that part. It was a error and a mistake. It was also gross negligence and manslaughter.

If it was not the Russians or the rebels that they support who then is left? The Ukrainians have no desire to shoot their own cargo planes down and the separatist rebels did not have planes that posed a threat. The Russians were also not flying in Ukrainian airspace.

Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17: What If Russia Wasn’t Involved?
There is an increasing amount of evidence that Russia wasn’t necessarily directly involved in the tragedy.

Have it ever cross your mind, the rebel might be ex Ukraine army and are train to operate BUK, What are there for Russia to gain by helping the rebel shoot down a civilian plane.

The US and Ukraine has more to gain by blaming Russia it is all geo politic, Russia might be aggressive but they are not stupid and dumb, like john McCain of US.
Let the UN do their work before pointing finger, it might be the rebel ex Ukraine train army who shoot it down, which Russia have no ideas.

Ukraine military also operates Buk surface-to-air systems, and there were reports last month that the rebels had captured at least one of these systems from the Ukraine military. Thus, while it wouldn’t be shocking to learn Russia had provided the Buk system that shot down MH17, it seems at least as likely that the system originated from Ukrainian forces.

Some of the rebel forces most likely have prior experience operating the Buk systems from their days serving in the Ukraine military. Since rebel forces reportedly acquired the Buk missile systems from retreating Ukraine forces last month, but only started using them earlier this week, it’s possible it took the rebel leaders two weeks or so to locate former military men who had experience operating the systems, and/or spent time having them train other rebels in how to use the system.:biggrin::*::*:
 

rotiprata

Alfrescian
Loyal
At the present, no one really knows who fire the BUK, only thing the west media will do put the blame on pro-Russia rebel and Putin.

Have they think about those rebel was once in the Ukraine army and has been train too, till they can find pieces of the missile no one really know who press the button.

It is not in Russia interest to do that, not that I am defending Russia, we all know what Russians are like they are no angel, in light of what US are doing, (supporting a coup in Ukraine where US interest are concern), they have more to gain than Russia shooting down MH17 if they can put the blame on Putin....:*:

what if the plane that was shot down is an aeroflot airliner??....:confused:
 

chuckyworld

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
what if the plane that was shot down is an aeroflot airliner??....:confused:

Guess the Russians will blame everyone from US to EU, so your point being it is all right to blame and pin it on someone, without finding out who really shot down the plane?......:*::*::*:
 

chuckyworld

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Only 3 country has shot down commercial airline, China did it Cathay Pacific in the 1954, USSR did it the 1983s and so did USA in 1988.
 

rotiprata

Alfrescian
Loyal
Guess the Russians will blame everyone from US to EU, so your point being it is all right to blame and pin it on someone, without finding out who really shot down the plane?......:*::*::*:

everyone knows who shot down MH17....and everyone knows who supplied the missile that shot down MH17
the EU should mobilise their armies immediately, invade ukraine and capture the murderers before they disappear into russia.. :eek:
 

sleaguepunter

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Are Russian army SAM crew so incompetent to shoot down a airliner?

Let face it, the alleged SAM system is high tech and need a high trained crew to operate. Each battery will be command by a qualified officer. I doubt the Russian army will give the sam system just for the ragtag militia to operate by themselves. So regular army will be send in wearing the militia uniforms. Being Russians, the command and control is highly rigid, the crews cannot even fart without getting approval from high command. I doubt they allow the crew to engage high altitude targets as Areoflot also operate in the area. Even the Russian not stupid enough to risk hitting it's own airliner.

The Pole comments cannot be trusted as it Poland advantage to get Russia in trouble. Ukraine are no innocent do gooder, everything is fair in love and war. If shooting down airliner can help to blame on the Russian, it will be a splendid PR coup.
 

chuckyworld

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
everyone knows who shot down MH17....and everyone knows who supplied the missile that shot down MH17
the EU should mobilise their armies immediately, invade ukraine and capture the murderers before they disappear into russia.. :eek:

Everyone know? where is the proof to back it up, did you see it with your own eyes that say Russia shoot it down, is it really shot down by BUK or SA 11? has everyone really see evidence of it, or just guessing as everyone does like the west media like to do.

Ukraine military also operates Buk surface-to-air systems, and there were reports last month that the rebels had captured at least one of these systems from the Ukraine military. Thus, while it wouldn’t be shocking to learn Russia had provided the Buk system that shot down MH17, it seems at least as likely that the system originated from Ukrainian forces.

Russia are presume innocent till proven guilty with hard fact and evidence.

Most likely it is shot down by the rebel or Ukraine army themselves, they have most to gain, if they can lay the blame on Russia....:*:
 

3_M

Alfrescian
Loyal
At the present, no one really knows who fire the BUK, only thing the west media will do put the blame on pro-Russia rebel and Putin.

Have they think about those rebel was once in the Ukraine army and has been train too, till they can find pieces of the missile no one really know who press the button.

It is not in Russia interest to do that, not that I am defending Russia, we all know what Russians are like they are no angel, in light of what US are doing, (supporting a coup in Ukraine where US interest are concern), they have more to gain than Russia shooting down MH17 if they can put the blame on Putin....:*:

We still don't have any concrete proof to suggest Russia supply the rebels with Buk.

Operating a SAM battery isn't as easy as firing a shoulder launch SAM. It requires extensive training and manpower. I think a battery would need at least 15 men and I doubt Russian can train the rebel in such a short time.

Quite possible that the SAM could originate from an Ukrainian SAM battery unit that decided to deflect to the rebels together with the equipments.
 

rotiprata

Alfrescian
Loyal
Everyone know? where is the proof to back it up, did you see it with your own eyes that say Russia shoot it down, is it really shot down by BUK or SA 11? has everyone really see evidence of it, or just guessing as everyone does like the west media like to do.

Ukraine military also operates Buk surface-to-air systems, and there were reports last month that the rebels had captured at least one of these systems from the Ukraine military. Thus, while it wouldn’t be shocking to learn Russia had provided the Buk system that shot down MH17, it seems at least as likely that the system originated from Ukrainian forces.

Russia are presume innocent till proven guilty with hard fact and evidence.

Most likely it is shot down by the rebel or Ukraine army themselves, they have most to gain, if they can lay the blame on Russia....:*:

you beri cute leh..
proof...just ask everyone here to raise their hands...count them...see who believe who.:biggrin:

that's why people like you..always see :*: and dun what's happening on the ground..:biggrin:
 
Top