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A Malaysian Airline Boeing was shot down and crashed in Ukraine.
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Re: Breaking News! Malaysian Aircraft with 295 passengers crashed! again!
Hahaha.....u were right about the first part about warhead fragment disabling control of the plane but In this particular case someone captured a video of the plane falling from the sky intact and only exploding into a fireball on impact with ground..
Re: Breaking News! Malaysian Aircraft with 295 passengers crashed! again!
Pro-Russian rebels find MH17 black boxes as bodies loaded onto trains from crash site
Removal of 196 corpses follows Kiev’s accusations that Russia and pro-Moscow rebels destroyed evidence to cover up their guilt in shooting down of Malaysian airliner
PUBLISHED : Sunday, 20 July, 2014, 5:09pm
UPDATED : Sunday, 20 July, 2014, 9:52pm
Agencies in Hrabove and Donetsk, Ukraine
A still image from video shows a rescue worker carrying a flight data recorder at the crash site. Photo: Reuters
A separatist leader said on Sunday that pro-Russian rebels were keeping what they presumed were the black boxes from the downed Malaysian airliner in the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk.
“Some items, presumably the black boxes, were found, and they have been delivered to Donetsk and they are under our control,” Aleksander Borodai, prime minister of the self-styled Donetsk People’s Republic, said.
Borodai said the rebels would need experts to confirm that they were the plane’s flight recorders.
“There are no specialists among us who could pinpoint the look of the black boxes, but we brought to Donetsk some technical items which could be the black boxes of the airliner.”
Borodai added that the items would be handed over to “international experts if they arrive”.
Armed rebels earlier forced emergency workers to hand over all 196 bodies recovered from the crash site and then loaded them onto refrigerated trains bound for a rebel-held area.
At the crash site on Sunday morning, Associated Press journalists saw no bodies and no armed rebels. Emergency workers were searching the sprawling fields only for body parts.
Nataliya Khuruzhaya, a duty officer at the train station in Torez, 15km from the crash site, said she saw emergency workers loading bodies into five sealed, refrigerated train cars.
A pro-Russia separatist stands near a body at the crash site of Malaysia Airlines flight 17. Photo: Reuters
She said the train was scheduled to head to the town of Ilovaysk, 35km further east toward the Russian border, but no instructions had been given about when it would leave or any possible destinations beyond Ilovaysk.
Russian news agencies said the bodies were heading to the rebel stronghold of Donetsk. Ukrainian officials say they expect to have the bodies eventually delivered to the government-held city of Kharkiv, but it’s unclear if the rebels will agree to do so.
Ukraine accused Russia and pro-Moscow rebels on Saturday of destroying evidence to cover up their guilt in the shooting down of the jet.
As militants kept international monitors away from wreckage, Russian President Vladimir Putin urged the rebels to cooperate and insisted that a UN-mandated investigation must not leap to conclusions. Moscow denies involvement and has pointed a finger at Kiev’s military.
The UN Security Council was considering a draft resolution to condemn the attack, demand armed groups allow access to the crash site and call on states in the region to cooperate with an international investigation.
Australia – which lost 28 citizens – circulated a draft text, seen by Reuters, to the 15-member Security Council late on Saturday and diplomats, speaking on condition of anonymity, said it could be put to a vote as early as Monday.
The Netherlands, whose citizens made up most of the 298 aboard MH17 from Amsterdam en route to Kuala Lumpur, said it was “furious” about the manhandling of corpses strewn for miles over open country and asked Ukraine’s president for help to bring “our people” home.
Flowers laid at the scene of the crash. Photo: AFP
US President Barack Obama said the loss of the Malaysia Airlines flight showed it was time to end the Ukraine conflict and Germany called it Moscow’s last chance to cooperate.
European powers seemed to swing behind Washington’s belief that Russia’s separatist allies were to blame. That might speed new trade sanctions on Moscow, without waiting for definitive proof.
“He has one last chance to show he means to help,” Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte said after a telephone call to Putin.
Britain, which lost 10 citizens, said further sanctions were available for use against Russia. Prime Minister David Cameron, writing in The Sunday Times, said European countries should make their power count. “Yet we sometimes behave as if we need Russia more than Russia needs us.”
German Chancellor Angela Merkel, the most powerful figure in the EU, spoke to Putin on Saturday, urging his cooperation. Merkel’s foreign minister, Frank-Walter Steinmeier, told Bild am Sonntag newspaper: “Moscow may have a last chance now to show that it really is seriously interested in a solution.”
“Now is the moment for everyone to stop and think to themselves what might happen if we don’t stop the escalation.”
Germany, reliant like other EU states on Russian energy and more engaged in Russian trade than the United States, has been reluctant to escalate a confrontation with Moscow that has revived memories of the cold war. But with military action not seen as an option, economic leverage is a vital instrument.
A spokeswoman for the Ukrainian emergency services says separatist rebels have taken away all the 196 bodies that workers had recovered from the crash site. Photo: Reuters
Russia said on Saturday it was retaliating against sanctions imposed by the United States last week, before the air disaster, by barring entry to unidentified Americans and warned of a “boomerang effect” on US business. But Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov and US Secretary of State John Kerry agreed in a phone call to try to get both sides in Ukraine to reach a consensus on peace, Russia’s foreign ministry said.
The US State Department, however, put the onus on Russia, saying Kerry urged Russia to take “immediate and clear actions to reduce tensions in Ukraine”.
Driving home its assertion that the Boeing 777 was hit by a Russian SA-11 radar-guided missile, Ukraine’s Western-backed government said it had “compelling evidence” the battery was not just brought in from Russia but manned by three Russian citizens who had now taken the truck-mounted system back over the border.
The prime minister, denying Russian suggestions that Kiev’s forces had fired a missile, said only a “very professional” crew could have brought down the speeding jetliner from 33,000 feet – not “drunken gorillas” among the ill-trained insurgents who want the Russian-speaking east to be annexed by Moscow.
The Wall Street Journal reported that US intelligence assessments indicated that Moscow likely provided rebels with sophisticated anti-aircraft systems in recent days.
A Malaysia Airlines employee sits behind a closed ticket counter at the Kuala Lumpur International Airport on Sunday. Photo: AFP
The Journal cited US officials as saying they now suspect that Russia supplied the rebels with multiple SA-11 systems by smuggling them in with other equipment, including tanks.
Fighting flared in eastern Ukraine on Saturday. The government said it was pressing its offensive in the east.
Observers from Europe’s OSCE security agency visited part of the crash site near the village of Hrabove for a second day on Saturday and again found their access hampered by armed men from the forces of the self-declared People’s Republic of Donetsk. An OSCE official said, however, they saw more than on Friday.
At one point, a Reuters correspondent heard a senior rebel tell the OSCE delegation they could not approach the wreckage and would simply be informed in due course of an investigation conducted by the separatists. However, fighters later let them visit an area where one of the airliner’s two engines lay.
Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott speaks to the media on Sunday. Australia – which lost 28 citizens – circulated a draft text to the UN Security Council demanding access to the crash site.
“The terrorists, with the help of Russia, are trying to destroy evidence of international crimes,” the Ukrainian government said in a statement in which it accused people with “strong Russian accents” of threatening to conduct autopsies.
Ukraine’s prime minister said armed men had barred government experts from collecting evidence.
Kerry told Lavrov the United States was “very concerned” over reports that the remains of victims and debris had been removed or tampered with, the State Department said. He said Washington was also concerned over denial of “proper access” for international investigators and OSCE monitors.
“This is unacceptable and an affront to all those who lost loved ones and to the dignity the victims deserve,” Kerry’s spokeswoman, Jen Psaki, said in a statement. “We urge Russia to honour its commitments and to publicly call on the separatists to do the same.”
Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko urged the United Nations to label rebels fighting his forces in the eastern regions of Luhansk and Donetsk as belonging to “terrorist organisations”.
In the regional capital Donetsk, the prime minister of the separatist authorities said that Kiev was holding up the arrival of international experts whose mission to investigate the cause – and potentially blame - for the disaster was authorised on Friday by the UN Security Council.
Contrary to earlier statements by the rebels, Alexander Borodai said they had not found the black box flight recorders. He said rebels were avoiding disturbing the area.
“There’s a grandmother. A body landed right in her bed. She says ‘please take this body away’. But we cannot tamper with the site,” Borodai said. “Bodies of innocent people are lying out in the heat. We reserve the right, if the delay continues ... to begin the process of taking away the bodies. We ask the Russian Federation to help us with this problem and send their experts.”
At Hrabove, one armed man from the separatist forces said that bodies had already been taken away in trucks. Another said people had looted valuables immediately after the crash. But fighters and local people say they have been doing their best to collect evidence and preserve human remains.
Malaysia, whose national airline has been battered by its second major disaster this year, said it was “inhumane” to bar access to the site around the village of Hrabove, but said Russia was doing its “level best” to help.
A team of Malaysian experts flew in to Kiev on Saturday and experts from Interpol are due there on Sunday to help with the identification of victims. Dutch, US and other specialists are being lined up to help in the investigation.
“Any actions that prevent us from learning the truth about what happened to MH17 cannot be tolerated,” Malaysian Transport Minister Liow Tiong Lai said on Saturday before leaving for Kiev. “Failure to stop such interference would be a betrayal of the lives that were lost.”
The deadliest attack on a commercial airliner follows the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines’ Flight MH370 in March with 239 passengers and crew.
The scale of the disaster could prove a turning point for international pressure to resolve the crisis in Ukraine, which has killed hundreds since pro-Western protests toppled the Moscow-backed president in Kiev in February and Russia annexed the Crimea peninsula a month later.
Associated Press, Reuters, Agence France-Presse
Pro-Russian rebels find MH17 black boxes as bodies loaded onto trains from crash site
Removal of 196 corpses follows Kiev’s accusations that Russia and pro-Moscow rebels destroyed evidence to cover up their guilt in shooting down of Malaysian airliner
PUBLISHED : Sunday, 20 July, 2014, 5:09pm
UPDATED : Sunday, 20 July, 2014, 9:52pm
Agencies in Hrabove and Donetsk, Ukraine
A still image from video shows a rescue worker carrying a flight data recorder at the crash site. Photo: Reuters
A separatist leader said on Sunday that pro-Russian rebels were keeping what they presumed were the black boxes from the downed Malaysian airliner in the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk.
“Some items, presumably the black boxes, were found, and they have been delivered to Donetsk and they are under our control,” Aleksander Borodai, prime minister of the self-styled Donetsk People’s Republic, said.
Borodai said the rebels would need experts to confirm that they were the plane’s flight recorders.
“There are no specialists among us who could pinpoint the look of the black boxes, but we brought to Donetsk some technical items which could be the black boxes of the airliner.”
Borodai added that the items would be handed over to “international experts if they arrive”.
Armed rebels earlier forced emergency workers to hand over all 196 bodies recovered from the crash site and then loaded them onto refrigerated trains bound for a rebel-held area.
At the crash site on Sunday morning, Associated Press journalists saw no bodies and no armed rebels. Emergency workers were searching the sprawling fields only for body parts.
Nataliya Khuruzhaya, a duty officer at the train station in Torez, 15km from the crash site, said she saw emergency workers loading bodies into five sealed, refrigerated train cars.
A pro-Russia separatist stands near a body at the crash site of Malaysia Airlines flight 17. Photo: Reuters
She said the train was scheduled to head to the town of Ilovaysk, 35km further east toward the Russian border, but no instructions had been given about when it would leave or any possible destinations beyond Ilovaysk.
Russian news agencies said the bodies were heading to the rebel stronghold of Donetsk. Ukrainian officials say they expect to have the bodies eventually delivered to the government-held city of Kharkiv, but it’s unclear if the rebels will agree to do so.
Ukraine accused Russia and pro-Moscow rebels on Saturday of destroying evidence to cover up their guilt in the shooting down of the jet.
As militants kept international monitors away from wreckage, Russian President Vladimir Putin urged the rebels to cooperate and insisted that a UN-mandated investigation must not leap to conclusions. Moscow denies involvement and has pointed a finger at Kiev’s military.
The UN Security Council was considering a draft resolution to condemn the attack, demand armed groups allow access to the crash site and call on states in the region to cooperate with an international investigation.
Australia – which lost 28 citizens – circulated a draft text, seen by Reuters, to the 15-member Security Council late on Saturday and diplomats, speaking on condition of anonymity, said it could be put to a vote as early as Monday.
The Netherlands, whose citizens made up most of the 298 aboard MH17 from Amsterdam en route to Kuala Lumpur, said it was “furious” about the manhandling of corpses strewn for miles over open country and asked Ukraine’s president for help to bring “our people” home.
Flowers laid at the scene of the crash. Photo: AFP
US President Barack Obama said the loss of the Malaysia Airlines flight showed it was time to end the Ukraine conflict and Germany called it Moscow’s last chance to cooperate.
European powers seemed to swing behind Washington’s belief that Russia’s separatist allies were to blame. That might speed new trade sanctions on Moscow, without waiting for definitive proof.
“He has one last chance to show he means to help,” Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte said after a telephone call to Putin.
Britain, which lost 10 citizens, said further sanctions were available for use against Russia. Prime Minister David Cameron, writing in The Sunday Times, said European countries should make their power count. “Yet we sometimes behave as if we need Russia more than Russia needs us.”
German Chancellor Angela Merkel, the most powerful figure in the EU, spoke to Putin on Saturday, urging his cooperation. Merkel’s foreign minister, Frank-Walter Steinmeier, told Bild am Sonntag newspaper: “Moscow may have a last chance now to show that it really is seriously interested in a solution.”
“Now is the moment for everyone to stop and think to themselves what might happen if we don’t stop the escalation.”
Germany, reliant like other EU states on Russian energy and more engaged in Russian trade than the United States, has been reluctant to escalate a confrontation with Moscow that has revived memories of the cold war. But with military action not seen as an option, economic leverage is a vital instrument.
A spokeswoman for the Ukrainian emergency services says separatist rebels have taken away all the 196 bodies that workers had recovered from the crash site. Photo: Reuters
Russia said on Saturday it was retaliating against sanctions imposed by the United States last week, before the air disaster, by barring entry to unidentified Americans and warned of a “boomerang effect” on US business. But Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov and US Secretary of State John Kerry agreed in a phone call to try to get both sides in Ukraine to reach a consensus on peace, Russia’s foreign ministry said.
The US State Department, however, put the onus on Russia, saying Kerry urged Russia to take “immediate and clear actions to reduce tensions in Ukraine”.
Driving home its assertion that the Boeing 777 was hit by a Russian SA-11 radar-guided missile, Ukraine’s Western-backed government said it had “compelling evidence” the battery was not just brought in from Russia but manned by three Russian citizens who had now taken the truck-mounted system back over the border.
The prime minister, denying Russian suggestions that Kiev’s forces had fired a missile, said only a “very professional” crew could have brought down the speeding jetliner from 33,000 feet – not “drunken gorillas” among the ill-trained insurgents who want the Russian-speaking east to be annexed by Moscow.
The Wall Street Journal reported that US intelligence assessments indicated that Moscow likely provided rebels with sophisticated anti-aircraft systems in recent days.
A Malaysia Airlines employee sits behind a closed ticket counter at the Kuala Lumpur International Airport on Sunday. Photo: AFP
The Journal cited US officials as saying they now suspect that Russia supplied the rebels with multiple SA-11 systems by smuggling them in with other equipment, including tanks.
Fighting flared in eastern Ukraine on Saturday. The government said it was pressing its offensive in the east.
Observers from Europe’s OSCE security agency visited part of the crash site near the village of Hrabove for a second day on Saturday and again found their access hampered by armed men from the forces of the self-declared People’s Republic of Donetsk. An OSCE official said, however, they saw more than on Friday.
At one point, a Reuters correspondent heard a senior rebel tell the OSCE delegation they could not approach the wreckage and would simply be informed in due course of an investigation conducted by the separatists. However, fighters later let them visit an area where one of the airliner’s two engines lay.
Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott speaks to the media on Sunday. Australia – which lost 28 citizens – circulated a draft text to the UN Security Council demanding access to the crash site.
“The terrorists, with the help of Russia, are trying to destroy evidence of international crimes,” the Ukrainian government said in a statement in which it accused people with “strong Russian accents” of threatening to conduct autopsies.
Ukraine’s prime minister said armed men had barred government experts from collecting evidence.
Kerry told Lavrov the United States was “very concerned” over reports that the remains of victims and debris had been removed or tampered with, the State Department said. He said Washington was also concerned over denial of “proper access” for international investigators and OSCE monitors.
“This is unacceptable and an affront to all those who lost loved ones and to the dignity the victims deserve,” Kerry’s spokeswoman, Jen Psaki, said in a statement. “We urge Russia to honour its commitments and to publicly call on the separatists to do the same.”
Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko urged the United Nations to label rebels fighting his forces in the eastern regions of Luhansk and Donetsk as belonging to “terrorist organisations”.
In the regional capital Donetsk, the prime minister of the separatist authorities said that Kiev was holding up the arrival of international experts whose mission to investigate the cause – and potentially blame - for the disaster was authorised on Friday by the UN Security Council.
Contrary to earlier statements by the rebels, Alexander Borodai said they had not found the black box flight recorders. He said rebels were avoiding disturbing the area.
“There’s a grandmother. A body landed right in her bed. She says ‘please take this body away’. But we cannot tamper with the site,” Borodai said. “Bodies of innocent people are lying out in the heat. We reserve the right, if the delay continues ... to begin the process of taking away the bodies. We ask the Russian Federation to help us with this problem and send their experts.”
At Hrabove, one armed man from the separatist forces said that bodies had already been taken away in trucks. Another said people had looted valuables immediately after the crash. But fighters and local people say they have been doing their best to collect evidence and preserve human remains.
Malaysia, whose national airline has been battered by its second major disaster this year, said it was “inhumane” to bar access to the site around the village of Hrabove, but said Russia was doing its “level best” to help.
A team of Malaysian experts flew in to Kiev on Saturday and experts from Interpol are due there on Sunday to help with the identification of victims. Dutch, US and other specialists are being lined up to help in the investigation.
“Any actions that prevent us from learning the truth about what happened to MH17 cannot be tolerated,” Malaysian Transport Minister Liow Tiong Lai said on Saturday before leaving for Kiev. “Failure to stop such interference would be a betrayal of the lives that were lost.”
The deadliest attack on a commercial airliner follows the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines’ Flight MH370 in March with 239 passengers and crew.
The scale of the disaster could prove a turning point for international pressure to resolve the crisis in Ukraine, which has killed hundreds since pro-Western protests toppled the Moscow-backed president in Kiev in February and Russia annexed the Crimea peninsula a month later.
Associated Press, Reuters, Agence France-Presse
Re: Breaking News! Malaysian Aircraft with 295 passengers crashed! again!
80 children were on board flight MH17, UN says, as rebels 'attempt to destroy crash evidence'
Missile that killed 298 people on Malaysian airliner fired by Russian team, says Kiev
PUBLISHED : Saturday, 19 July, 2014, 7:11pm
UPDATED : Sunday, 20 July, 2014, 3:42pm
Reuters in Donetsk
The body of a victim is carried away from the crash site. Photo: AFP
Ukraine accused Russia and pro-Moscow rebels on Saturday of destroying evidence to cover up their guilt in the shooting down of a Malaysian airliner that has accelerated a showdown between the Kremlin and Western powers.
As militants kept international monitors away from wreckage and scores of bodies festered for a third day, Russian President Vladimir Putin urged the rebels to cooperate and insisted that a U.N.-mandated investigation must not leap to conclusions. Moscow denies involvement and has pointed a finger at Kiev’s military.
The Dutch government, whose citizens made up most of the 298 aboard MH17 from Amsterdam, said it was “furious” at the manhandling of corpses strewn for miles over open country and asked Ukraine’s president for help to bring “our people” home.
After US President Barack Obama said the loss of the Kuala Lumpur-bound flight showed it was time to end the conflict, Germany called it Moscow’s last chance to cooperate.
Click here to see which aircraft pass over Ukraine's war zone when flying between western Europe and Hong Kong
European powers seemed to swing behind Washington’s belief Russia’s separatist allies were to blame. That might speed new trade sanctions on Moscow, without waiting for definitive proof.
“He has one last chance to show he means to help,” Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte said after a telephone call to Putin.
Britain, which lost 10 citizens, said further sanctions were available for use against Russia. “If Russia is the principal culprit, we can take further action against them and make it clear this kind of sponsored war is completely unacceptable,” Defence Minister Michael Fallon told the Mail on Sunday.
Prime Minister David Cameron, writing in The Sunday Times, said European countries should make their power count in dealing with the Ukraine crisis, “yet we sometimes behave as if we need Russia more than Russia needs us.”
German Chancellor Angela Merkel, the most powerful figure in the EU, spoke to Putin on Saturday, urging his cooperation. Merkel’s foreign minister, Frank-Walter Steinmeier, told Bild am Sonntag newspaper: “Moscow may have a last chance now to show that it really is seriously interested in a solution.”
“Now is the moment for everyone to stop and think to themselves what might happen if we don’t stop the escalation.”
Germany, reliant like other EU states on Russian energy and more engaged in Russian trade than the United States, has been reluctant to escalate a confrontation with Moscow that has revived memories of the Cold War. But with military action not seen as an option, economic leverage is a vital instrument.
Russian retaliation
Russia said on Saturday it was retaliating against sanctions imposed by the United States last week, before the air disaster, by barring entry to unnamed Americans and warned of a “boomerang effect” on US business. But Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov and US Secretary of State John Kerry did agree in a phone call to try to get both sides in Ukraine to reach a consensus on peace, Russia’s Foreign Ministry said.
The State Department, however, put the onus on Russia, saying Kerry urged Russia to take “immediate and clear actions to reduce tensions in Ukraine.”
Driving home its assertion that the Boeing 777 was hit by a Russian SA-11 radar-guided missile, Ukraine’s Western-backed government said it had “compelling evidence” the battery was not just brought in from Russia but manned by three Russian citizens who had now taken the truck-mounted system back over the border.
A pro-Russian rebel confronts OSCE officials at the crash site on Friday. Photo: AP
The prime minister, denying Russian suggestions that Kiev’s forces had fired a missile, said only a “very professional” crew could have brought down the speeding jetliner from 33,000 feet (10,000 metres) - not “drunken gorillas” among the ill-trained insurgents who want the Russian-speaking east to be annexed by Moscow.
Fighting flared in eastern Ukraine on Saturday. The government said it was pressing its offensive in the east.
Observers from Europe’s OSCE security agency visited part of the crash site near the village of Hrabove for a second day on Saturday and again found their access hampered by armed men from the forces of the self-declared People’s Republic of Donetsk. An OSCE official said, however, they saw more than on Friday.
At one point, a Reuters correspondent heard a senior rebel tell the OSCE delegation they could not approach the wreckage and would simply be informed in due course of an investigation conducted by the separatists. However, fighters later let them visit an area where one of the airliner’s two engines lay.
“The terrorists, with the help of Russia, are trying to destroy evidence of international crimes,” the Ukrainian government said in a statement. “The terrorists have taken 38 bodies to the morgue in Donetsk,” it said, accusing people with “strong Russian accents” of threatening to conduct autopsies.
Ukraine’s prime minister said armed men had barred government experts from collecting evidence.
Flowers from the mourners lie at the crash site. Photo: AFP
Kerry told Lavrov the United States is “very concerned” over reports that the remains of victims and debris from the crash site have been removed or tampered with, the State Department said. He said Washington was also concerned over denial of “proper access” for international investigators and OSCE monitors, it said.
Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko urged the United Nations on Saturday to label rebels fighting his forces in the eastern regions of Luhansk and Donetsk as belonging to “terrorist organisations”.
Retrieving remains
In the regional capital Donetsk, the prime minister of the separatist authorities told a news conference that Kiev was holding up the arrival of international experts whose mission to probe the cause - and potentially blame - for the disaster was authorised on Friday by the United Nations Security Council.
And contrary to earlier statements by the rebels, Alexander Borodai said they had not found the black box flight recorders. He said rebels were avoiding disturbing the area.
“There’s a grandmother. A body landed right in her bed. She says ‘please take this body away’. But we cannot tamper with the site,” Borodai said. “Bodies of innocent people are lying out in the heat. We reserve the right, if the delay continues ... to begin the process of taking away the bodies. We ask the Russian Federation to help us with this problem and send their experts.”
Midday temperatures are around 30 Celsius (85 Fahrenheit).
An armed pro-Russia militant attempts to stop journalists from accessing the site. Photo: AFP
At Hrabove, one armed man from the separatist forces told Reuters that bodies had already been taken away in trucks. Another said that immediately after the crash people had looted valuables. But fighters and local people say they have been doing their best to collect evidence and preserve human remains.
As the stench of death began to pervade the area after Thursday’s crash, correspondents watched rescue workers carry bodies across the fields and gather remains in black sacks.
Meeting Ukrainian President Poroshenko in Kiev, Dutch Foreign Minister Frans Timmermans said: “We are already shocked by the news we got today of bodies being dragged around, of the site not being treated properly ... People are angry, furious.”
The Ukrainian security council in Kiev said staff of the Emergencies Ministry had found 186 bodies and had checked some 18 sq km (seven square miles) of the scattered 25-sq-km (10-square-mile) crash site. But the workers were not free to conduct a normal investigation.
“The fighters have let the Emergencies Ministry workers in there but they are not allowing them to take anything from the area,” security council spokesman Andriy Lysenko said. “The fighters are taking away all that has been found.”
Members of the Ukrainian Emergency Ministry carry a body at the crash site. Photo: Reuters
Malaysia, whose national airline has been battered by its second major disaster this year, said it was “inhumane” to bar access to the site around the village of Hrabove, but said Russia was doing its “level best” to help.
A team of Malaysian experts flew in to Kiev on Saturday and experts from Interpol are due there on Sunday to help with the identification of victims. Dutch, US and a host of other specialists are being lined up to help in the investigation.
As tales of personal grief unfolded, Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak revealed his own family was involved - his 83-year-old step-grandmother had been aboard the flight.
The United Nations said 80 children were aboard. The deadliest attack on a commercial airliner follows the disappearance of flight MH370 in March with 239 passengers.
Malaysia Airlines has defended its use of the route, 1,000 feet (300 metres) above the area closed by Ukraine due to the hostilities. Some airlines had been avoiding the area, though many others were flying over. The issue has raised questions of liability for the deaths and damage and about international supervisors’ roles.
The scale of the disaster could prove a turning point for international pressure to resolve the crisis in Ukraine, which has killed hundreds since pro-Western protests toppled the Moscow-backed president in Kiev in February and Russia annexed the Crimea peninsula a month later.
80 children were on board flight MH17, UN says, as rebels 'attempt to destroy crash evidence'
Missile that killed 298 people on Malaysian airliner fired by Russian team, says Kiev
PUBLISHED : Saturday, 19 July, 2014, 7:11pm
UPDATED : Sunday, 20 July, 2014, 3:42pm
Reuters in Donetsk
The body of a victim is carried away from the crash site. Photo: AFP
Ukraine accused Russia and pro-Moscow rebels on Saturday of destroying evidence to cover up their guilt in the shooting down of a Malaysian airliner that has accelerated a showdown between the Kremlin and Western powers.
As militants kept international monitors away from wreckage and scores of bodies festered for a third day, Russian President Vladimir Putin urged the rebels to cooperate and insisted that a U.N.-mandated investigation must not leap to conclusions. Moscow denies involvement and has pointed a finger at Kiev’s military.
The Dutch government, whose citizens made up most of the 298 aboard MH17 from Amsterdam, said it was “furious” at the manhandling of corpses strewn for miles over open country and asked Ukraine’s president for help to bring “our people” home.
After US President Barack Obama said the loss of the Kuala Lumpur-bound flight showed it was time to end the conflict, Germany called it Moscow’s last chance to cooperate.
Click here to see which aircraft pass over Ukraine's war zone when flying between western Europe and Hong Kong
European powers seemed to swing behind Washington’s belief Russia’s separatist allies were to blame. That might speed new trade sanctions on Moscow, without waiting for definitive proof.
“He has one last chance to show he means to help,” Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte said after a telephone call to Putin.
Britain, which lost 10 citizens, said further sanctions were available for use against Russia. “If Russia is the principal culprit, we can take further action against them and make it clear this kind of sponsored war is completely unacceptable,” Defence Minister Michael Fallon told the Mail on Sunday.
Prime Minister David Cameron, writing in The Sunday Times, said European countries should make their power count in dealing with the Ukraine crisis, “yet we sometimes behave as if we need Russia more than Russia needs us.”
German Chancellor Angela Merkel, the most powerful figure in the EU, spoke to Putin on Saturday, urging his cooperation. Merkel’s foreign minister, Frank-Walter Steinmeier, told Bild am Sonntag newspaper: “Moscow may have a last chance now to show that it really is seriously interested in a solution.”
“Now is the moment for everyone to stop and think to themselves what might happen if we don’t stop the escalation.”
Germany, reliant like other EU states on Russian energy and more engaged in Russian trade than the United States, has been reluctant to escalate a confrontation with Moscow that has revived memories of the Cold War. But with military action not seen as an option, economic leverage is a vital instrument.
Russian retaliation
Russia said on Saturday it was retaliating against sanctions imposed by the United States last week, before the air disaster, by barring entry to unnamed Americans and warned of a “boomerang effect” on US business. But Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov and US Secretary of State John Kerry did agree in a phone call to try to get both sides in Ukraine to reach a consensus on peace, Russia’s Foreign Ministry said.
The State Department, however, put the onus on Russia, saying Kerry urged Russia to take “immediate and clear actions to reduce tensions in Ukraine.”
Driving home its assertion that the Boeing 777 was hit by a Russian SA-11 radar-guided missile, Ukraine’s Western-backed government said it had “compelling evidence” the battery was not just brought in from Russia but manned by three Russian citizens who had now taken the truck-mounted system back over the border.
A pro-Russian rebel confronts OSCE officials at the crash site on Friday. Photo: AP
The prime minister, denying Russian suggestions that Kiev’s forces had fired a missile, said only a “very professional” crew could have brought down the speeding jetliner from 33,000 feet (10,000 metres) - not “drunken gorillas” among the ill-trained insurgents who want the Russian-speaking east to be annexed by Moscow.
Fighting flared in eastern Ukraine on Saturday. The government said it was pressing its offensive in the east.
Observers from Europe’s OSCE security agency visited part of the crash site near the village of Hrabove for a second day on Saturday and again found their access hampered by armed men from the forces of the self-declared People’s Republic of Donetsk. An OSCE official said, however, they saw more than on Friday.
At one point, a Reuters correspondent heard a senior rebel tell the OSCE delegation they could not approach the wreckage and would simply be informed in due course of an investigation conducted by the separatists. However, fighters later let them visit an area where one of the airliner’s two engines lay.
“The terrorists, with the help of Russia, are trying to destroy evidence of international crimes,” the Ukrainian government said in a statement. “The terrorists have taken 38 bodies to the morgue in Donetsk,” it said, accusing people with “strong Russian accents” of threatening to conduct autopsies.
Ukraine’s prime minister said armed men had barred government experts from collecting evidence.
Flowers from the mourners lie at the crash site. Photo: AFP
Kerry told Lavrov the United States is “very concerned” over reports that the remains of victims and debris from the crash site have been removed or tampered with, the State Department said. He said Washington was also concerned over denial of “proper access” for international investigators and OSCE monitors, it said.
Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko urged the United Nations on Saturday to label rebels fighting his forces in the eastern regions of Luhansk and Donetsk as belonging to “terrorist organisations”.
Retrieving remains
In the regional capital Donetsk, the prime minister of the separatist authorities told a news conference that Kiev was holding up the arrival of international experts whose mission to probe the cause - and potentially blame - for the disaster was authorised on Friday by the United Nations Security Council.
And contrary to earlier statements by the rebels, Alexander Borodai said they had not found the black box flight recorders. He said rebels were avoiding disturbing the area.
“There’s a grandmother. A body landed right in her bed. She says ‘please take this body away’. But we cannot tamper with the site,” Borodai said. “Bodies of innocent people are lying out in the heat. We reserve the right, if the delay continues ... to begin the process of taking away the bodies. We ask the Russian Federation to help us with this problem and send their experts.”
Midday temperatures are around 30 Celsius (85 Fahrenheit).
An armed pro-Russia militant attempts to stop journalists from accessing the site. Photo: AFP
At Hrabove, one armed man from the separatist forces told Reuters that bodies had already been taken away in trucks. Another said that immediately after the crash people had looted valuables. But fighters and local people say they have been doing their best to collect evidence and preserve human remains.
As the stench of death began to pervade the area after Thursday’s crash, correspondents watched rescue workers carry bodies across the fields and gather remains in black sacks.
Meeting Ukrainian President Poroshenko in Kiev, Dutch Foreign Minister Frans Timmermans said: “We are already shocked by the news we got today of bodies being dragged around, of the site not being treated properly ... People are angry, furious.”
The Ukrainian security council in Kiev said staff of the Emergencies Ministry had found 186 bodies and had checked some 18 sq km (seven square miles) of the scattered 25-sq-km (10-square-mile) crash site. But the workers were not free to conduct a normal investigation.
“The fighters have let the Emergencies Ministry workers in there but they are not allowing them to take anything from the area,” security council spokesman Andriy Lysenko said. “The fighters are taking away all that has been found.”
Members of the Ukrainian Emergency Ministry carry a body at the crash site. Photo: Reuters
Malaysia, whose national airline has been battered by its second major disaster this year, said it was “inhumane” to bar access to the site around the village of Hrabove, but said Russia was doing its “level best” to help.
A team of Malaysian experts flew in to Kiev on Saturday and experts from Interpol are due there on Sunday to help with the identification of victims. Dutch, US and a host of other specialists are being lined up to help in the investigation.
As tales of personal grief unfolded, Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak revealed his own family was involved - his 83-year-old step-grandmother had been aboard the flight.
The United Nations said 80 children were aboard. The deadliest attack on a commercial airliner follows the disappearance of flight MH370 in March with 239 passengers.
Malaysia Airlines has defended its use of the route, 1,000 feet (300 metres) above the area closed by Ukraine due to the hostilities. Some airlines had been avoiding the area, though many others were flying over. The issue has raised questions of liability for the deaths and damage and about international supervisors’ roles.
The scale of the disaster could prove a turning point for international pressure to resolve the crisis in Ukraine, which has killed hundreds since pro-Western protests toppled the Moscow-backed president in Kiev in February and Russia annexed the Crimea peninsula a month later.
UN draft resolution calls for access to MH17 crash site in Ukraine
PUBLISHED : Sunday, 20 July, 2014, 3:41pm
UPDATED : Sunday, 20 July, 2014, 5:50pm
Reuters at the United Nations
Wreckage is pictured at the crash site of Malaysia Airlines flight 17. Photo: Reuters
The UN Security Council is considering a draft resolution to condemn the “shooting down” of a Malaysian passenger plane in Ukraine, demand armed groups allow access to the crash site, and call on states in the region to cooperate with an international investigation.
Australia – which lost 28 citizens – circulated a draft text, seen by Reuters, to the 15-member Security Council late on Saturday and diplomats, speaking on condition of anonymity, said it could be put to a vote as early as Monday.
The draft resolution “demands that those responsible for this incident be held to account and that all states cooperate fully with efforts to establish accountability.”
It “condemns in the strongest terms the shooting down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 ... resulting in the tragic loss of 298 lives” and “demands that all states and other actors in the region refrain from acts of violence directed against civilian aircraft.”
The United States and other powers have said the plane was likely brought down on Thursday by a surface-to-air missile fired from rebel territory.
US Ambassador to the United Nations Samantha Power said on Friday that Washington could not rule out Russian help in firing the missile.
Russian President Vladimir Putin urged the pro-Moscow rebels in eastern Ukraine to cooperate and insisted that an international investigation must not leap to conclusions. Moscow denies involvement and has pointed a finger at Kiev’s military.
Ukraine and its Western allies accuse Moscow of fuelling a pro-Russian uprising that threatens to break up the former Soviet republic of 46 million people. Russia denies orchestrating the unrest and says Ukraine’s attempts to end it by military force are making the situation worse.
The draft UN resolution “calls on all states and actors in the region to cooperate fully in relation to the international investigation of the incident, including with respect to immediate access to the crash site.”
It “demands that the armed groups in control of the crash site and the surrounding area refrain from any actions that may compromise the integrity of the crash site and immediately provide safe, secure, full and unfettered access to the site and surrounding area.”
International monitors the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe said on Saturday they had been allowed to see more of the crash site, though gunmen still stopped them approaching some of the wreckage.
Russia’s UN mission declined to comment on the draft Security Council resolution.
The Security Council issued a statement on Friday calling for a “full, thorough and independent international investigation,” access to the site and appropriate accountability. Britain drafted the short text and hoped the council could issue it on Thursday but Russia requested more time to review it.
The Australian-drafted resolution “supports efforts to establish a full, thorough and independent international investigation into the incident in accordance with international civil aviation guidelines.”
It also “insists that the bodies of the victims are treated in a dignified, respectful and professional manner.”
Hong Kong-born chef and wife died aboard Flight MH17 after change of route
Fan Shun-po, a cook working in the Netherlands, was travelling with his Malaysian wife, Jenny Loh, according to a Dutch newspaper
PUBLISHED : Friday, 18 July, 2014, 12:02pm
UPDATED : Saturday, 19 July, 2014, 3:09am
Stuart Lau [email protected]
The Fans with their son Kevin on Facebook.Photo: SCMP Pictures
A change to their usual travel routine proved fatal for a celebrated Hong Kong-born chef and his Malaysian wife.
Each year Fan Shun-po and Jenny Fan, both in their 50s and who owned a Chinese restaurant in Rotterdam, would fly from Amsterdam to Hong Kong and then Kuala Lumpur to visit their respective hometowns.
But this time, because they had to take Jenny's elderly mother home to Penang after she paid them a visit, they opted to fly from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur aboard the doomed Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17.
The couple, who perished with 296 others aboard the Boeing 777 after it was shot down over Ukraine, are survived by their son Kevin, who is in his early 20s and also lives in Rotterdam.
The Hongkonger and his Malaysian wife seen in a Dutch cooking show.
Christy Liu, who was in the same Buddhist group as the couple in the Dutch port city, said people who knew them were concerned about Kevin in the wake of the tragedy.
"It is devastating to him. He is very sad, not answering phone calls and only willing to send text messages," Liu said.
"He just texted us back with messages [yesterday] afternoon. He was finding it impossible [on Thursday] to face the matter."
She said friends of the Fans would try to help Kevin arrange his parents' funeral. Many of Kevin's friends have posted on his Facebook page the word sterkte - Dutch for strength.
Fan and his wife migrated to the Netherlands in 1978 and made a name for themselves when their restaurant in downtown Rotterdam, Asian Glories, won a recommendation from the Michelin Guide.
Tributes poured in on the restaurant's Facebook page, where a poster named Gaea Gail recalled nights when "after closing hours [as] we sat and talked about life, Jenny was as lively as she always was and Mr Fan his smiling peaceful self, listening to his wife as she talked the night away".
The pair were also respected for their philanthropy. "Whenever there were natural disasters, the Fans never hesitated to organise charity dinners to help raise funds," Liu said.
In the wake of the Fukushima tsunami in March 2011, the pair staged a dinner that raised €27,500 (HK$288,000) for victims.
Hong Kong's Immigration Department said it was checking if more Hongkongers were on board Flight MH17.
Dutch forensic experts begin examining MH71 bodies
PUBLISHED : Sunday, 20 July, 2014, 5:09pm
UPDATED : Monday, 21 July, 2014, 6:43pm
Associated Press in Torez
A rescue worker carries a flight data recorder at the crash site of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 in eastern Ukraine. Photo: Reuters
Dutch forensic experts on Monday began examining the bodies from the MH17 plane disaster, as world leaders denounced the “shambolic” state of the crash site left in the hands of pro-Russian rebels.
Kiev’s prime minister said the remains of some 250 victims of the 298 killed when the flight went down last week, apparently shot by a surface-to-air missile, had been recovered and moved to train cars, and could be transferred to the Netherlands.
But the bodies are in rebel-held territory where Kiev holds no sway, near the city of Donetsk where intense shelling broke out again on Monday.
The UN Security Council is expected on Monday to adopt an Australia-backed resolution demanding that pro-Russian separatists grant unrestricted access to the crash site for international experts.
Patience was wearing thin over Moscow’s stance, even as President Vladimir Putin pledged Russia would do “everything in its power” to resolve the Ukrainian conflict and to open access to the site.
The under-fire Russian leader appeared to seek to temper world fury after Washington said it had overwhelming evidence the missile system used to shoot down the Malaysia Airlines jet was transferred from Russia to the rebels.
After speaking with Putin, Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott noted he had “said all the right things” but that he would “hold the president to his word”.
“That is certainly my intention, and it should be the intention of the family of nations to hold the president to his word,” Abbott said, as concerns rose over tampering with evidence including the victims’ remains and the plane’s black boxes.
Twenty-eight Australian nationals and nine residents were among the passengers from a dozen countries on the doomed flight.
At the Torez station, close to Donetsk, an AFP reporter witnessed the Dutch investigators, wearing masks and headlights, open each of the train wagons holding the remains of recovered bodies, amid an overpowering stench.
Even as Putin pledged to work toward dialogue between the Ukrainian rivals, intense shelling rained down in the rebel stronghold Donetsk, just 60 kilometres from Torez where the bodies are being held.
Rescue workers collect bodies at the site of the crash. Photo: AFP
Insurgent fighters had closed off the roads in the area on the edge of the city and terrified civilians were fleeing the fighting in minibuses and on foot.
A rebel fighter told AFP that government troops had attacked their positions close to the transport hub at around 10 am (0700 GMT).
“They came within about two kilometres of the station,” insurgent gunman Volodya told AFP.
Even as Dutch teams were inspecting the bodies, international investigators have yet to gain access to the actual crash site in Grabove, with debris spread out for kilometres.
“As anyone who has been watching the footage will know, this is still an absolutely shambolic situation,” Australia’s Abbott said.
Malaysia’s transport minister Liow Tiong Lai has also expressed concerns that “the sanctity of the crash site has been severely compromised”.
Only a team of conflict monitors from the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) were allowed briefly to access the main crash site.
US Secretary of State John Kerry has slammed as “grotesque” the manner in which “drunken separatist soldiers” were allegedly “unceremoniously piling bodies into trucks, removing both bodies, as well as evidence, from the site”.
Insurgents defended their actions, with a rebel chief saying they had moved scores of bodies “out of respect for the families”.
Washington has pointedly blamed Moscow for supplying rebel with the missile system used to shoot down the passenger jet.
Flowers laid at the scene of the crash. Photo: AFP
Kiev on Sunday released fresh recordings of what it says are intercepted conversations between rebels organising to hide the flight’s black boxes from international monitors.
And the US embassy confirmed as authentic recordings released by Kiev of an intercepted call between an insurgent commander and a Russian intelligence officer as they realised they had shot down a passenger jet.
The Washington Post said Ukraine’s counterintelligence chief had photographs and related evidence that three Buk M-1 anti-aircraft missile systems moved from rebel-held territory into Russia less than 12 hours after the crash.
However, top Russian officials and state media have suggested that Kiev’s new leaders staged the attack to blame the rebels.
The UN Security Council votes at 1900 GMT on Monday on a resolution demanding that armed groups controlling the area “refrain from any actions that may compromise the integrity of the crash site... and immediately provide safe, secure, full and unrestricted access to the site and surrounding area for the appropriate investigating authorities.”
The leaders of France, Britain and Germany also signalled they could ramp up sanctions against Russia as early as Tuesday - barely a week after the last round of toughened embargoes.
The separatists’ violent bid to join Russia is the latest chapter in a prolonged crisis sparked by Kiev’s desire for closer ties with the EU - a sentiment many in the Russian-speaking east do not share.
A pro-Russia separatist stands near a body at the crash site of Malaysia Airlines flight 17. Photo: Reuters
I'm hearing news this evening that the OSCE believe the crash site has been compromised.
Investigators will now have a harder time trying to establish just what happened. Who knows what has been removed or even 'inserted' into the wreckage.
Anyone here still hold the belief that Ukrainian rebels and Russians are still NOT responsible?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28415769
Investigators will now have a harder time trying to establish just what happened. Who knows what has been removed or even 'inserted' into the wreckage.
Anyone here still hold the belief that Ukrainian rebels and Russians are still NOT responsible?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28415769
Mat yoyo decided to reroute london flight after MH17 from ukraine to syria. travellers! you fly malaysian airline at your own perils. Due to the laws of malaysia, employee of MAS are hired not based on merit , but race. would you fly on an airline manage by chimps.
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Malaysia Airlines rerouted a flight to Kuala Lumpur over Syria after airspace above Ukraine was closed after the downing of MH17.
Swedish flight tracking service Flightradar24 AB posted a flight map on its Twitter account showing the change in the route of Malaysian Airlines flight MH4, which flies to London.
Flight tracking data showed this flight had previously crossed over eastern Ukraine.
Fredrik Lindahl, chief executive officer of Flightradar24 AB, said it was relatively unusual for transcontinental flights to cross Syria.
‘With Iraq you always see aircraft flying there. There is no other way to access parts of the Middle East than to use the Iraq corridor,’ he said.
‘But you don't see Syria so often. We saw no other trans-continental flight that went through Syrian airspace yesterday.’
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Malaysia Airlines rerouted a flight to Kuala Lumpur over Syria after airspace above Ukraine was closed after the downing of MH17.
Swedish flight tracking service Flightradar24 AB posted a flight map on its Twitter account showing the change in the route of Malaysian Airlines flight MH4, which flies to London.
Flight tracking data showed this flight had previously crossed over eastern Ukraine.
Fredrik Lindahl, chief executive officer of Flightradar24 AB, said it was relatively unusual for transcontinental flights to cross Syria.
‘With Iraq you always see aircraft flying there. There is no other way to access parts of the Middle East than to use the Iraq corridor,’ he said.
‘But you don't see Syria so often. We saw no other trans-continental flight that went through Syrian airspace yesterday.’
http://globalnews.ca/news/1465614/flight-mh17-crash-victims-father-pens-heartbreaking-open-letter/
“Thank you very much mister Putin, leaders of the separatists or the Ukraine government!
For murdering my loved and only child, Elsemiek de Borst!
She was 17 years old, 5th “gymnasium” student at the “Segbroek College” in Den Haag.
And she was on her way to her holiday in Maleisië together with her little brother, her mom (my ex-wife) and her stepfather.
Elsemiek would have done her final school exams next year, together with her best friend Julia and Marina, she did so good in school!
After that she wanted to go to the “Technical University Delft” to study engineering, she was looking forward to it!
But suddenly she is not here anymore! She has been shot out of the sky, in an unknown country, where there is a war going on!
Aforementioned misters, I hope you’re proud to have shot her, amongst other, young life and future. And that you will be able to look at yourself in the mirror tomorrow morning.
I hope you will receive this message, maybe translated in English (what you as a intelligent gentleman could read just fine)
Thanks again!
Regards, Elsemieks father Hans de Borst from Monster, The Netherlands, whose life is ruined!!
PS mister Putin, I hope that your intense conversation with our prime-minster Rutte opened your eyes!
I know you are impressed by this and I would find it impressive if you took the initiative to guard the crash-sight with the Russian military, so the Dutch investigators can do their job.
Thanks in advance.”
Waiting for Putin's reply.
“Thank you very much mister Putin, leaders of the separatists or the Ukraine government!
For murdering my loved and only child, Elsemiek de Borst!
She was 17 years old, 5th “gymnasium” student at the “Segbroek College” in Den Haag.
And she was on her way to her holiday in Maleisië together with her little brother, her mom (my ex-wife) and her stepfather.
Elsemiek would have done her final school exams next year, together with her best friend Julia and Marina, she did so good in school!
After that she wanted to go to the “Technical University Delft” to study engineering, she was looking forward to it!
But suddenly she is not here anymore! She has been shot out of the sky, in an unknown country, where there is a war going on!
Aforementioned misters, I hope you’re proud to have shot her, amongst other, young life and future. And that you will be able to look at yourself in the mirror tomorrow morning.
I hope you will receive this message, maybe translated in English (what you as a intelligent gentleman could read just fine)
Thanks again!
Regards, Elsemieks father Hans de Borst from Monster, The Netherlands, whose life is ruined!!
PS mister Putin, I hope that your intense conversation with our prime-minster Rutte opened your eyes!
I know you are impressed by this and I would find it impressive if you took the initiative to guard the crash-sight with the Russian military, so the Dutch investigators can do their job.
Thanks in advance.”
Waiting for Putin's reply.
Some 80 children and infants died in this tragedy. Innocent kids who had nothing to do with the fighting going on in Eastern Ukraine.
Some of the Singveld's photos are truly heart-breaking...
Some of the Singveld's photos are truly heart-breaking...
weapon is just a tool, AK-47 kill millions around the world, should we lay the blame to Russia too? If you want to lay blame, what about the ukraine protesters who started all this by overthrowing a legit gov, finance and encourage by EU, holland is part of EU. holland pays protesters to overthrow gov to attack borders of russia. holland as part of eu expand eastward taking countries after countries. Is this not a declaration of war to russia?
Re: Breaking News! Malaysian Aircraft with 295 passengers crashed! again!
impossible, if it crash in one piece , the fire started at the wings will spread throughout the plane, the debris field is several miles wide, how is it possible to be in one piece. the plane was built from 3 pieces, upon stress beyond operational spec, it will break apart.
impossible, if it crash in one piece , the fire started at the wings will spread throughout the plane, the debris field is several miles wide, how is it possible to be in one piece. the plane was built from 3 pieces, upon stress beyond operational spec, it will break apart.
blame freedom fighters? That guy was destroying Ukraine.
both governments from pro -EU and pro russian were equally bad. so when the pro-EU corrupted gov was destroying ukraine, did russian send in protesters to kick out the gov? No, they waited for election.
so the rebels who side with Russia are the good guys?
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