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An open letter to fellow Christians

Confuseous

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
My best friend and my sister are gay.

I've been annoyed at Christians who are going about their opposition for homosexuality in a strident, aggressive and confrontational way. I personally believe that homosexuality is wrong, because that is what God tells us in the bible. But in the same bible, there are also MANY other sins that are described and listed as wrong. And I am certain that I have committed many of them, as have you. But the bible talks way more about God's dealings with men and the lives of the men and women he chose than listing sins and punishments, do's and don'ts.

Does God 'rank' some sins as being worse or more heinous? I don't know. But I do see that the number of verses pertaining to homosexuality are way fewer that those that speak of pride, hypocrisy and idolatry. And he has very harsh words to say about these, way harsher that the others. Jesus makes clear idolatry isn't just about stone, metal or wood images of gods we pray to, but things we rank above God, like money. Hands up any Christian who has never been guilty of placing things, people, even good things, above God in our lives? I have. I have been guilty of idolatry therefore, and deserving of the harshest and severest words he has to say. Yet here I am, still certain I am loved and accepted by God.

Yes, there are verses prohibiting homosexuality in both the old and new testaments which is why I personally believe it is wrong. But so are lying, gossip, swearing, rage, pride, boasting, unforgiveness, murder, drunkenness, fornication etc. Are there any Christians who can honestly say they have never and are not still committing some of these sins? If so, they must be reading a different bible than me coz it says so plainly: If we say, “We have no sin,” we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (1 John 1:8 HCSB)

In the verses in the New Testament that speak about homosexuality, there are also sins listed like adultery, drunkenness, cheating and idolatry. They also speak about gossip and slander, dissensions, lawsuits among believers. Isn't it clear that the sins are all offensive to a holy God, and contradictory to his word that says "be holy as I am holy". (1 Pet 1:15). The bible does not single out homosexuality as a more vile sin than others. What is clear to me is that God does call two commands the greatest: To love him wholly; and to love our neighbor as ourselves. (Mt 22:36-40). And Jesus made clear that our neighbor is not about physical residence or proximity, but any person in need of our help and love, like the way the Good Samaritan helped the Jew that was a victim of a mugging. “Which of these three do you think proved to be a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of the robbers?” (Luke 10:36 HCSB) he asks at the end of that famous parable.

So, to have groups forming against gays, to have Christians drawing lines to divide 'them' from 'us' is not consistent with that at all. How does calling yourself "love Singapore" then turning around and condemning them in line with your stated mission? How does your making a stand in white cause them to see that Christ died for them? You ostensibly couch that in politically correct terms like being "pro-family" as opposed to "anti-gay".

Do you reckon these LGBT men and women do not have fathers and mothers and brothers and sisters that love them? Do you think they and their families are part of some sinister organization that seeks to rip the fabric of society apart and trample on your 2.1 children? Does Adam and Steve poking each other in the privacy of their home have anything to do with Mr and Mrs Tan and their 3 kids? Maybe they are living beside you and your children may ask 'difficult' questions. Well isn't that part of parenting? Being able to address and answer those questions? Teaching your children that not everyone is the same, but that is OK coz God made everyone.

Teaching your kids there are differences in culture, lifestyles, races, religions and opinions and that different doesn't mean wrong or threatening is essential to their becoming discerning adults. You are certainly free to teach them what your family or personal beliefs are, and your religion. But they should learn those aren't the only way that society thinks. Otherwise they will become self-centered, narrow-minded, entitled and opinionated and believe only their worldview is right.

If you are indeed a loving Christian household that lives out Jesus' command, then you should love your neighbor as yourself. People are not won over by your standing in picket lines holding placards saying "God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve". People do not see God's love in your wearing white to make a stand even while calling yourself "love Singapore". People are not convinced of a God who bled and died for them and the grace he epitomizes by your tirade at the pulpit about how 377a should not be repealed. Drawing political lines and advancing an agenda divides. It highlights the stark differences between 'them and us'. And you may win a court or constitutional battle, but you will never win a heart or soul for God this way.

Getting the NLB to destroy a couple books written for toddlers is not some great victory that somehow you can sleep safe at night coz now your children will not be exposed to the 'evils' in the world. Get real. I read a ridiculous online petition by Singaporeans United for Family that stated "the library... is the trusted place where virtues and values that matter to family are built, strengthened and spread." Really? I think you confuse that with your church library. The National library is just that, a national public library. It contains books of great as well as questional literary value: old classics, popular fiction, non-fiction, ghost stories and horror books, those depicting violence, sexual immorality, murder, sorcery and witchcraft. Virtues and values?

Should we expunge every title that has a dark tone? Morally grey themes where the protagonist is less than perfect? Last I checked, the bible had some pretty shady characters that becamethe "hero" too. Like Samson. Or Jehu. It also has graphic violence of people beheaded, flogged, crucified, stabbed so deeply by a sword it sank in to the hilt, killed by being pegged to the floor in the head, sawed in two, burned etc. How could we possibly expose our delicate children to such graphic violence and reality? While you're at it, as a good virtuous Christian parent who wants to protect your little one from negative influences, why don't you suggest books of other religions get removed lest they negatively influence your curious children?

Let's call a spade a spade. Pro-family is just another way to say anti-gay. And as a Christian I am offended by fellow Christians who try and paint us all with the same brush in the eyes of the LGBT community as well as society at large. I will not wear pink but neither will I wear white. I will wear any color I damn well please coz my faith and beliefs are my own and I will not want to be in any 'camp'. I am no more or less a sinner than anyone in white or pink coz last I checked the bible said "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" (Rom 3:23) but that it is God's gift of grace in Jesus that saves. And this behavior of fellow Christians seeks only to polarize further and in no way demonstrates that grace.

Books are gonna get burnt in the name of "family". What next? It's precisely because of this behavior that gays will never enter our churches and hear the message of a God who loves them and died for them. Or closet gays who happen to be in the pew next to you will drift away and leave. To find the welcoming community of tolerance and acceptance of other gays further galvanizing their feelings of discomfiture and rejection. It's the same way in the past that those who were divorced or single parents would feel they were somehow condemned or deficient and leave the church, never to be noticed by the smug little perfect families occupying a pew.

I am not suggesting diluting the truth of the bible. But Jesus spoke to the woman at the well who had 5 previous husbands and a partner she was now 'living in sin' with, and he shared the truth and love with her. He prevented a woman caught in idolatry from being stoned. He hung out with the 'sinners' in society and loved them and the religious leaders of his day vilified him for that. And he showed us what God is like and how to live. And if we are his followers we should be the same way. Would he stand in a picket line with a placard? I don't think so. He would go to both sides of the line and speak to people. Hear from them, teach them and love them. And perhaps if he did pick a side, he more often would be found on the side that didn't have the religious authorities of his day whom he dubbed hypocrites and white-washed tombs. Consider whether he'd be congratulating you today on your 'stupendous victory' in widening and entrenching the divide.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/yvonne-loh/an-open-letter-to-fellow-christians/10152554962510309
 

Satyr

Alfrescian
Loyal
I don't believe homosexuals are condemned. The ten commandments do not address it directly. The passages in the old testament do express some disgust at it but do not dwell on it. Then again there are lots of dietary restrictions in the OT that nobody takes seriously these days. I do not think homosexuality is wrong nor right. However, gays pushing their agenda to kids is not right. If they can have kids then they can teach their kids whatever. Leave other kids alone. If they want to push their agenda to adults , then by all means. But they should not complain about a push back became this is to be expected.
 

sochi2014

Alfrescian
Loyal
All sinners are condemned including homosexuals. In the old testament they were destroyed by blazing fires from the sky. Even in the new testament there is no mention of marriage between the same sex. Do you still think they are acceptable by God? I have nothing against gays. They can screw themselves to death in private I dun really care. But they cross the line when they say their shameful lifestyles is a right and not a disgusting sin. They want to change the laws to make their actions more justified. Just like adultery, there is no law against it yet it brought problems to any society. They want to adopt children too and trying to brainwash them to make them accept gay lifestyles. Gay is more of a psychological problem than anything else. They need help instead of support. As a responsible citizen I have to speak up!
 
Last edited:

laksaboy

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Christians are not anti gay: they are 'pro-family' and gays are perceived to be 'anti-family'. :biggrin:

By the way, the marriage bed is undefiled. If a husband fucks his wife in the ass, is it a sin? :rolleyes:
 

Timerty

Alfrescian
Loyal
The Bible is an ang moh religion. People who are not sure of its validity should not anyhow go and believe it. They need to think about life's meaning for themselves and not simply let someone else think for them.
 

hockbeng

Alfrescian
Loyal
my best friend and my sister are gay.

I've been annoyed at christians who are going about their opposition for homosexuality in a strident, aggressive and confrontational way. I personally believe that homosexuality is wrong, because that is what god tells us in the bible. But in the same bible, there are also many other sins that are described and listed as wrong. And i am certain that i have committed many of them, as have you. But the bible talks way more about god's dealings with men and the lives of the men and women he chose than listing sins and punishments, do's and don'ts.

Does god 'rank' some sins as being worse or more heinous? I don't know. But i do see that the number of verses pertaining to homosexuality are way fewer that those that speak of pride, hypocrisy and idolatry. And he has very harsh words to say about these, way harsher that the others. Jesus makes clear idolatry isn't just about stone, metal or wood images of gods we pray to, but things we rank above god, like money. Hands up any christian who has never been guilty of placing things, people, even good things, above god in our lives? I have. I have been guilty of idolatry therefore, and deserving of the harshest and severest words he has to say. Yet here i am, still certain i am loved and accepted by god.

Yes, there are verses prohibiting homosexuality in both the old and new testaments which is why i personally believe it is wrong. But so are lying, gossip, swearing, rage, pride, boasting, unforgiveness, murder, drunkenness, fornication etc. Are there any christians who can honestly say they have never and are not still committing some of these sins? If so, they must be reading a different bible than me coz it says so plainly: If we say, “we have no sin,” we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (1 john 1:8 hcsb)

in the verses in the new testament that speak about homosexuality, there are also sins listed like adultery, drunkenness, cheating and idolatry. They also speak about gossip and slander, dissensions, lawsuits among believers. Isn't it clear that the sins are all offensive to a holy god, and contradictory to his word that says "be holy as i am holy". (1 pet 1:15). The bible does not single out homosexuality as a more vile sin than others. What is clear to me is that god does call two commands the greatest: To love him wholly; and to love our neighbor as ourselves. (mt 22:36-40). And jesus made clear that our neighbor is not about physical residence or proximity, but any person in need of our help and love, like the way the good samaritan helped the jew that was a victim of a mugging. “which of these three do you think proved to be a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of the robbers?” (luke 10:36 hcsb) he asks at the end of that famous parable.

So, to have groups forming against gays, to have christians drawing lines to divide 'them' from 'us' is not consistent with that at all. How does calling yourself "love singapore" then turning around and condemning them in line with your stated mission? How does your making a stand in white cause them to see that christ died for them? You ostensibly couch that in politically correct terms like being "pro-family" as opposed to "anti-gay".

Do you reckon these lgbt men and women do not have fathers and mothers and brothers and sisters that love them? Do you think they and their families are part of some sinister organization that seeks to rip the fabric of society apart and trample on your 2.1 children? Does adam and steve poking each other in the privacy of their home have anything to do with mr and mrs tan and their 3 kids? Maybe they are living beside you and your children may ask 'difficult' questions. Well isn't that part of parenting? Being able to address and answer those questions? Teaching your children that not everyone is the same, but that is ok coz god made everyone.

Teaching your kids there are differences in culture, lifestyles, races, religions and opinions and that different doesn't mean wrong or threatening is essential to their becoming discerning adults. You are certainly free to teach them what your family or personal beliefs are, and your religion. But they should learn those aren't the only way that society thinks. Otherwise they will become self-centered, narrow-minded, entitled and opinionated and believe only their worldview is right.

If you are indeed a loving christian household that lives out jesus' command, then you should love your neighbor as yourself. People are not won over by your standing in picket lines holding placards saying "god created adam and eve, not adam and steve". People do not see god's love in your wearing white to make a stand even while calling yourself "love singapore". People are not convinced of a god who bled and died for them and the grace he epitomizes by your tirade at the pulpit about how 377a should not be repealed. Drawing political lines and advancing an agenda divides. It highlights the stark differences between 'them and us'. And you may win a court or constitutional battle, but you will never win a heart or soul for god this way.

Getting the nlb to destroy a couple books written for toddlers is not some great victory that somehow you can sleep safe at night coz now your children will not be exposed to the 'evils' in the world. Get real. I read a ridiculous online petition by singaporeans united for family that stated "the library... Is the trusted place where virtues and values that matter to family are built, strengthened and spread." really? I think you confuse that with your church library. The national library is just that, a national public library. It contains books of great as well as questional literary value: Old classics, popular fiction, non-fiction, ghost stories and horror books, those depicting violence, sexual immorality, murder, sorcery and witchcraft. Virtues and values?

Should we expunge every title that has a dark tone? Morally grey themes where the protagonist is less than perfect? Last i checked, the bible had some pretty shady characters that becamethe "hero" too. Like samson. Or jehu. It also has graphic violence of people beheaded, flogged, crucified, stabbed so deeply by a sword it sank in to the hilt, killed by being pegged to the floor in the head, sawed in two, burned etc. How could we possibly expose our delicate children to such graphic violence and reality? While you're at it, as a good virtuous christian parent who wants to protect your little one from negative influences, why don't you suggest books of other religions get removed lest they negatively influence your curious children?

Let's call a spade a spade. Pro-family is just another way to say anti-gay. And as a christian i am offended by fellow christians who try and paint us all with the same brush in the eyes of the lgbt community as well as society at large. I will not wear pink but neither will i wear white. I will wear any color i damn well please coz my faith and beliefs are my own and i will not want to be in any 'camp'. I am no more or less a sinner than anyone in white or pink coz last i checked the bible said "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of god" (rom 3:23) but that it is god's gift of grace in jesus that saves. And this behavior of fellow christians seeks only to polarize further and in no way demonstrates that grace.

Books are gonna get burnt in the name of "family". What next? It's precisely because of this behavior that gays will never enter our churches and hear the message of a god who loves them and died for them. Or closet gays who happen to be in the pew next to you will drift away and leave. To find the welcoming community of tolerance and acceptance of other gays further galvanizing their feelings of discomfiture and rejection. It's the same way in the past that those who were divorced or single parents would feel they were somehow condemned or deficient and leave the church, never to be noticed by the smug little perfect families occupying a pew.

I am not suggesting diluting the truth of the bible. But jesus spoke to the woman at the well who had 5 previous husbands and a partner she was now 'living in sin' with, and he shared the truth and love with her. He prevented a woman caught in idolatry from being stoned. He hung out with the 'sinners' in society and loved them and the religious leaders of his day vilified him for that. And he showed us what god is like and how to live. And if we are his followers we should be the same way. Would he stand in a picket line with a placard? I don't think so. He would go to both sides of the line and speak to people. Hear from them, teach them and love them. And perhaps if he did pick a side, he more often would be found on the side that didn't have the religious authorities of his day whom he dubbed hypocrites and white-washed tombs. Consider whether he'd be congratulating you today on your 'stupendous victory' in widening and entrenching the divide.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/yvonne-loh/an-open-letter-to-fellow-christians/10152554962510309

the longer the letter; the more likely nobody is going to read it!

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion; including those who are anti-gay.

Basically the idea of 2 men having sex is just plain repulsive and disgusting; no matter what orifice they chose.
If you cannot understand this; then too bad for you
 

Satyr

Alfrescian
Loyal
The Bible is an ang moh religion. People who are not sure of its validity should not anyhow go and believe it. They need to think about life's meaning for themselves and not simply let someone else think for them.

If anyone does not really think it through and see it working they will never truly believe it deep down. It just becomes a superstition no matter what religion.
 

hofmann

Alfrescian
Loyal
They want to change the laws to make their actions more justified. Just like adultery, there is no law against it yet it brought problems to any society. They want to adopt children too and trying to brainwash them to make them accept gay lifestyles. Gay is more of a psychological problem than anything else. They need help instead of support. As a responsible citizen I have to speak up!

society norms are subjective and change with time. slavery was the norm 100s years of ago, but no more. suffragettes were the pariahs of the 19th century as they fought for the right of women to vote. prohibition in the USA in the 19th century saw the outright ban of alcohol.

it is a matter of time before gays are more widely accepted in society.
 

yellowarse

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
society norms are subjective and change with time. slavery was the norm 100s years of ago, but no more. suffragettes were the pariahs of the 19th century as they fought for the right of women to vote. prohibition in the USA in the 19th century saw the outright ban of alcohol.

it is a matter of time before gays are more widely accepted in society.

Agree. There are no absolutes in this world. Women were only granted the right to vote in 1920 in the US, that bastion of democracy. Blacks were given only full suffrage in 1965. Between 1901 and 1969, the Aussie govt forcibly removed children from Aboriginal families under law and placed them in state institutions to prevent racial mixing. They came to be known as the 'stolen generation'.

At the end of the day, we can only go by guiding principles. Do unto others as you'd have others do unto you. What goes on between 2 consensual adults and which does not harm others is fine by me.
 
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