Shanmmugam - Too inconvenient to consult population for constitutional changes!

In Parliament, NMP Eugene Tan had asked the Law minister K Shanmugam why the government doesn't intend to bring into force Article 5(2A) of the constitution.

Article 5(2A) states that a national referendum must be conducted when parliament seeks to make changes to the constitution. A referendum is a national vote where voters are told about the proposed amendment to the constitution and everyone votes whether they are for or against the change.

With this process, 2/3rds of the voters must vote in favour of the constitutional amendment in order for it to pass.

The constitution is the very basic law of Singapore which governs most of the broad principles of the law including how the government can tax people, what powers the president has, what powers parliament has, as well as the basic rights and freedoms that Singaporeans are supposed to enjoy.

All other laws must be within the rules stated in the constitution or else the other laws may be found to be unconstitutional and therefore invalid.

Because the constitution is supposed to be the foundation of the law, many other democratic nations require a referendum where every voter is consulted on proposed changes before any changes can be made. In Singapore, all that is needed is a 2/3rds majority of votes from within Parliament.

Given that the PAP holds more than this many number of seats, Singapore's constitution can easily be changed by the PAP if and when it pleases.

Eugene Tan has questioned why the government doesn't want to require a referrendum for constitutional changes.

In response, Shanmugam explained that the government wouldn't want that because it'd be inconvenient.

He explained that the government wants the freedom to make chagnes to the constitution quickly so that they have more control over how they want to tax Singaporeans and Invest our reserves.

Shanmugam justified this with the ageing population, saying the they expect healthcare costs and other costs to increase a lot. For healthcare alone. costs are expected to triple to $12 billion a year by 2020.

Using this as an example, Shanmugam said that they would need to be able to make adjustments to the constitution so that they are allowed to change their tax structures in order to have enough money to spend on such expenses.

As they are still expecting refinements to be necessary, requiring a national referendum every time they wanted to make a tweak, would be inconvenient.

http://therealsingapore.com/content...nt-let-singaporeans-vote-changes-constitution

I fully agree with the Honorable Minister.

There is little point holding a referendum because the majority of Singaporeans are not well informed or intelligent enough to have an in depth understanding of constitutional issues and how they affect the country as a whole. It would be like a doctor asking his patient to decide what sort of drugs to administer.

Such matters are best left to the leaders of the countries. They are elected to do the job of running the country which is complex and challenging task. They are in the best position to manage the contents of the constitution.

Leongsam said:

I fully agree with the Honorable Minister.

There is little point holding a referendum because the majority of Singaporeans are not well informed or intelligent enough to have an in depth understanding of constitutional issues and how they affect the country as a whole. It would be like a doctor asking his patient to decide what sort of drugs to administer.

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You really don't understand democracy. The government acts for the people, not tell the people what to do. If the people wants to commit hari-kiri, it is the people's choice and the government just has to act on it.

Using your analogy on the doctor ...the person has the choice of seeing or not the doctor.

Such matters are best left to the leaders of the countries. They are elected to do the job of running the country which is complex and challenging task. They are in the best position to manage the contents of the constitution.

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Total rubbish. Governing sinkapore is not complex.

The fact that opposition supporting retards believe in websites like TRS, TRE, TOC and idiots like Retard Roy proves that a referendum model will not work in SG

winnipegjets said:

You really don't understand democracy. The government acts for the people, not tell the people what to do. If the people wants to commit hari-kiri, it is the people's choice and the government just has to act on it.

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You are the one who does not understand democracy.

In the Westminster model, the people elect representatives to parliament. They select their representatives via the ballot box.

The party that has sufficient numbers to form a government then leads the country for the duration of the electoral term.

The elected representatives are tasked with making decisions on behalf of the electorate.

If the electorate is not happy with the way the country is being run, the party in power can be voted out and another party voted in. The process repeats itself every few years.

It is the same in the USA and the UK. The president does not need to hold a referendum for each decision he makes. Both Bush Jnr and Snr went to war without a referendum.

In short, we run the country like a fiefdom....the peasants need not be asked...we change the rules, when, as & how, we like...this apply to yOUR MONEY, they hold.

halsey02 said:

In short, we run the country like a fiefdom....the peasants need not be asked...we change the rules, when, as & how, we like...this apply to yOUR MONEY, they hold.

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Yes. They are saying, I don't give you CPF, What the fxxk can you do !!

halsey02 said:

In short, we run the country like a fiefdom....the peasants need not be asked...we change the rules, when, as & how, we like...this apply to yOUR MONEY, they hold.

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Yet the 60% willing to bend over and offer their backside for the sake of Democracy.

Leongsam said:

You are the one who does not understand democracy.

In the Westminster model, the people elect representatives to parliament. They select their representatives via the ballot box.

The party that has sufficient numbers to form a government then leads the country for the duration of the electoral term.

The elected representatives are tasked with making decisions on behalf of the electorate.

If the electorate is not happy with the way the country is being run, the party in power can be voted out and another party voted in. The process repeats itself every few years.

It is the same in the USA and the UK. The president does not need to hold a referendum for each decision he makes. Both Bush Jnr and Snr went to war without a referendum.

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Sam and Shan are right. If Sinkies want a say vote for people who listen to you and hold your values. Otherwise nothing to complain about.

halsey02 said:

In short, we run the country like a fiefdom....the peasants need not be asked...we change the rules, when, as & how, we like...this apply to yOUR MONEY, they hold.

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The only country I know where government by referendum is practiced is Switzerland.

In NZ, Parliament makes decisions on behalf of the electorate. Even when referendums are held, they are non binding and Parliament does not have to abide by the outcome.

All the ruling party has to do is to take the outcome of the referendum into consideration when formulating policies or risk being voted out.

Equalisation said:

Yes. They are saying, I don't give you CPF, What the fxxk can you do !!

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That is what I have hearing from people I know & talk to since 1983 or 1984 till now..."what the f$#$$#k , can we do?" that was when CPF was 23/23% & who was the Finance Minister & we went into a recession!! that was when they started "massaging" CPF money from your money to yOUR MONEY...& SINgaporeans was too "what the f$#$%^k can we do?"..what can we do, reflect on what we want for the next 50 years, not only for ourselves, which is TODAY, but for our children, that is TOMORROW.

Do we trust & continue with people, who have no feel for you & have no qualms to thrust policies & restrictions down your throat for the next fifty years? & have no accountability for what they do & even continually reward & keep people, that made grave mistakes. Are these the people, you want?

what the f$%$%k can you do? reduce that majority to a minority & make all the politicians from each side of the divide to WORK FOR YOU, & that is what they are paid for.

what the f%$%^k can you do?:p

Vote them OUT !!:oIo:

Leongsam said:

The only country I know where government by referendum is practiced is Switzerland.

In NZ, Parliament makes decisions on behalf of the electorate. Even when referendums are held, they are non binding and Parliament does not have to abide by the outcome.

All the ruling party has to do is to take the outcome of the referendum into consideration when formulating policies or risk being voted out.

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Correct. Referendum is a time consuming and costly affair. The Govt makes the decision and the Parliament approves the bill to execute it. The referendum on joining Malaysia is an exception as it involves giving up sovereignty of sinkapoo to become a part of another country.

halsey02 said:

....Do we trust & continue with people, who have no feel for you & have no qualms to thrust policies & restrictions down your throat for the next fifty years? & have no accountability for what they do & even continually reward & keep people, that made grave mistakes. Are these the people, you want?

what the f$%$%k can you do? reduce that majority to a minority & make all the politicians from each side of the divide to WORK FOR YOU, & that is what they are paid for.

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There is nothing that you can do as long as 60% dummies continue to vote for the papees.

it least let those who are intelligent enough to have a say
right now he just assume that is best to cut out the whole popluation
and just 'convienently' change te law as he pleases

Leongsam said:

I fully agree with the Honorable Minister.

There is little point holding a referendum because the majority of Singaporeans are not well informed or intelligent enough to have an in depth understanding of constitutional issues and how they affect the country as a whole. It would be like a doctor asking his patient to decide what sort of drugs to administer.

Such matters are best left to the leaders of the countries. They are elected to do the job of running the country which is complex and challenging task. They are in the best position to manage the contents of the constitution.

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Constitution itself is just a general set of principles and guidelines which dictate how a country should be governed and it doesn't really go into great detail. Due to it vagueness and generality, it open to interpretation by the ruling party. In the absence of an effective opposition, the next best course of action will be for citizen to mount a constitutional challenge in the court. That the only way to top PAP from this blatant abuse of constitution.

Leongsam said:

The only country I know where government by referendum is practiced is Switzerland.

In NZ, Parliament makes decisions on behalf of the electorate. Even when referendums are held, they are non binding and Parliament does not have to abide by the outcome.

All the ruling party has to do is to take the outcome of the referendum into consideration when formulating policies or risk being voted out.

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We are not asking the government to ask the people here, every time they want to pass laws or ?? & hold referendum but, things that will impact lives at the present & the future, the people must be consulted & referendum held. Not, the attitude, I told you so, it is good for you, you have no say, no choice, no voice...you voted for me, I have the divine mandate, to do what I like.

Do we need a referendum for everything?? no?

Eugene asked the wrong question as the obvious reply will be that can never govern by referendum.

He should have asked why there so many amendments in the constitution when its essentially a charter and the base law that defines and govern us as a country and society. The constitution has morphed to suit one government only. I would liked to hear what Shanmugam and the Govt would have liked to say.

Dragonhead said:

Correct. Referendum is a time consuming and costly affair. The Govt makes the decision and the Parliament approves the bill to execute it. The referendum on joining Malaysia is an exception as it involves giving up sovereignty of sinkapoo to become a part of another country.

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Well, if that is the case u stupid fuck, than why bother having elections? Elections are costly and time consuming affairs too. why bother to have them?

The day when you say its inconvenient to exercise democracy (even if its in the form of a referendum), than that's the day u admit you have a dictatorship running the country.