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Conflating the issue - CPF vs Roy's error

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Really getting sick of people who can't differentiate between the 2 distinct issues. The only consolation is that they are a minority.

We know that Roy went overboard
We know that he defamed the PM
We know that Roy should not have done it

We also know that we have major issues with CPF
We also know that Roy did what most people would not have done in taking up the issue
We also know Roy is many times a man than most of us
We also know that the Govt failed to answer or address the issue still.

Vincent W at Hong Lim and other critics of the Govt have already said that Roy erred. So he did apologise. It is a separate matter.

The PM suing is also not acceptable. Most agree on it. A bullying trait from his father's days
The $100K collected from hundreds of people within a week must mean something
Couple of thousand people making their way to Hong Lim must mean something.

So please stopping harping about Roy did wrong. We know that. We are talking about the elephant in the room and the man called Roy that pointed it out.
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
I have been harping about the most relevant fact of all... the fact that CPF, while not perfect, is an extremely good scheme.

I've given reasons why this is so and pointed out why it is superior to many pension schemes that are currently operating in the Western world.

It is definitely superior to the NZ superannuation scheme which I will be receiving if I succeed in reaching a ripe old age of 65. I'll get about NZD290 per week which is the same amount that some down and out beneficiary who has never worked a day in his life will receive.

The unfairness of the NZ scheme is what disgusts me. It pays the same amount to all regardless of how hard they have worked to contribute to government coffers over the years.

CPF, on the other hand, is MY money. I get out what I put in.
 

kryonlight

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
We don't need another CSJ. We badly need another LTK.

A greater hero is someone who points out the elephant in the room to everyone and leads the elephant out into the field without getting himself crushed by the elephant on the command of its owner.

Glaring mistakes should not be repeated. There is no excuse for that.
 

Asterix

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
CPF, on the other hand, is MY money. I get out what I put in.

Yes, CPF is indeed YOUR money
Except that you can no must put it in
But what and when you may get out depends
On so many variables and ever changing rules
That it might as well not be your money

You have not yet grasped the Eighth Wonder
Two per cent per annum is behind inflation
Which means you are losing buying power
For what is money but a store of value
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset

Yes, CPF is indeed YOUR money
Except that you can no must put it in
But what and when you may get out depends
On so many variables and ever changing rules
That it might as well not be your money

You have not yet grasped the Eighth Wonder
Two per cent per annum is behind inflation
Which means you are losing buying power
For what is money but a store of value

Give me two percent compared to the daylight robbery of the NZ superannuation scheme where you take out only a fraction of what is contributed over 4 decades of working life. If you die at 70, that's $290x52x5 = $75,400. Once you kick the bucket, the payments stop. There is nothing to will to your dependents.

The average Kiwi pays at least 10% more in direct taxes and 8% more in consumption tax in order to fund welfare and retirement. All this for pittance in return.
 

tanwahtiu

Alfrescian
Loyal
CSJ time there is no internet and power of blogging and forums. CJS was squashed by the hand of a bully dictator who control MSM.

Roy and CSJ made some mistakes and LKY make more mistakes when he was opposition, Hock Lee bus strikes case speaks of itself.

Roy is like a small ant which elephants are scared. Expect more small ants coming which can bring down the elephant.





We don't need another CSJ. We badly need another LTK.

A greater hero is someone who points out the elephant in the room to everyone and leads the elephant out into the field without getting himself crushed by the elephant on the command of its owner.

Glaring mistakes should not be repeated. There is no excuse for that.
 

blindswordsman

Alfrescian
Loyal
....We also know that Roy did what most people would not have done in taking up the issue...We also know Roy is many times a man than most of us....The $100K collected from hundreds of people within a week must mean something...Couple of thousand people making their way to Hong Lim must mean something....So please stopping harping about Roy did wrong. We know that. We are talking about the elephant in the room and the man called Roy that pointed it out.

Roy did it not because he is many times a man than most sinkies but he has nothing to lose. He is not married, has no family to support and holds a low paying job. He is also an activist with an agenda. If he is now an oppo MP getting $14k a month, holding a good paying job and has a family, would he do it? Unlikely unless he is mad.

Catherine Lim has been pointing out to sinkies for years about the chimps in the room but did sinkies listen?

Now, Roy said there is also an elephant and sinkies started to believe him. Why? Because the elephant will eat up all the sugar cane and sinkies might not even get the sugar cane juice.
 

tanwahtiu

Alfrescian
Loyal
Roy also contribute to CPF and he was also frustrated and worry his CPF future to trust in the hand of PAP. By the time Roy is 55 who is the next PM?

Do you trust the next PM?

Better to strike now when he is 33, make mistake so what who don't, and with support of the mass he is doing well.

We shall send to parliament in 2016.

Roy can move the crowd and he has crowd followers. Can LHL move the crowd or has crowd followers. Look at his National Conversation does he has crowd followers? Most of them PAP PA porlumpars are not crowd followers.



Really getting sick of people who can't differentiate between the 2 distinct issues. The only consolation is that they are a minority.

We know that Roy went overboard
We know that he defamed the PM
We know that Roy should not have done it

We also know that we have major issues with CPF
We also know that Roy did what most people would not have done in taking up the issue
We also know Roy is many times a man than most of us
We also know that the Govt failed to answer or address the issue still.

Vincent W at Hong Lim and other critics of the Govt have already said that Roy erred. So he did apologise. It is a separate matter.

The PM suing is also not acceptable. Most agree on it. A bullying trait from his father's days
The $100K collected from hundreds of people within a week must mean something
Couple of thousand people making their way to Hong Lim must mean something.

So please stopping harping about Roy did wrong. We know that. We are talking about the elephant in the room and the man called Roy that pointed it out.
 

kaipoh

Alfrescian
Loyal
Boss Sam, how come you utter rubbish again. if your CPF money has been compounds at the rate of 4% for say 30years, you know how much you will get?
What is the point for harping the CPF issues when you didn't provide solutions - just like you are masturbating in the airplane toilet, yes, it solves your temporary fake desire, you still need a real fuck with a pretty girl. right!
You are such a erudite guy, I look up to you for the recommendation of some solutions for LHL to consider. Thank you sir.

I have been harping about the most relevant fact of all... the fact that CPF, while not perfect, is an extremely good scheme.

I've given reasons why this is so and pointed out why it is superior to many pension schemes that are currently operating in the Western world.

It is definitely superior to the NZ superannuation scheme which I will be receiving if I succeed in reaching a ripe old age of 65. I'll get about NZD290 per week which is the same amount that some down and out beneficiary who has never worked a day in his life will receive.

The unfairness of the NZ scheme is what disgusts me. It pays the same amount to all regardless of how hard they have worked to contribute to government coffers over the years.

CPF, on the other hand, is MY money. I get out what I put in.
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
Boss Sam, how come you utter rubbish again. if your CPF money has been compounds at the rate of 4% for say 30years, you know how much you will get?
What is the point for harping the CPF issues when you didn't provide solutions - just like you are masturbating in the airplane toilet, yes, it solves your temporary fake desire, you still need a real fuck with a pretty girl. right!
You are such a erudite guy, I look up to you for the recommendation of some solutions for LHL to consider. Thank you sir.

You don't have to educate me regarding the power of compound interest for the simple reason that all my daily expenses are met by interest from my term deposits.

Besides you don't have to leave your CPF as cash in the fund. It should be used to the hilt to buy property. Since the money cannot be spent, what better way to use it than to fund property investments without affecting your monthly cash flow whatsoever. It's a classic example of how you can have your cake and eat it too.

Without the CPF scheme, I can categorically state that I'd be at least $2.5 million poorer today as I would not have had sufficient income to purchase property for investment.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Until Roy defamed the PM, few people including the Govt paid any attention. I am not too concerned about the agenda unless that agenda does more damage. I doubt it will. Also whether Roy is employed in a good job or even jobless is not really relevant or am I missing something.

Catherine continues to be well regarded. People knew what they could do and what they could not. Old man intervened on behalf of GCT and any attempt for the people to move was snuffed. Not that they ignored Catherine Lim. This PM in this case was silly.

Let's face it, most people who hold highly paid jobs will also not do what Roy did if they lost their jobs and had nothing to lose.

My point is let's focus on the PAP, it's mishandling of many policies and the impact on society. I can' be really bothered if Roy has a sinister motive behind all this. When that attempts to surface, there will be enough smart people to take Roy out of the equation.


Roy did it not because he is many times a man than most sinkies but he has nothing to lose. He is not married, has no family to support and holds a low paying job. He is also an activist with an agenda. If he is now an oppo MP getting $14k a month, holding a good paying job and has a family, would he do it? Unlikely unless he is mad.

Catherine Lim has been pointing out to sinkies for years about the chimps in the room but did sinkies listen?

Now, Roy said there is also an elephant and sinkies started to believe him. Why? Because the elephant will eat up all the sugar cane and sinkies might not even get the sugar cane juice.
 

Poomer

Alfrescian
Loyal
The average Kiwi pays at least 10% more in direct taxes and 8% more in consumption tax in order to fund welfare and retirement. All this for pittance in return.

By law, the average Singaporean has 20% of the income transferred straight to their retirement accounts. We are still being taxed on this amount. If you do the math, you are being taxed 20% indirectly, on top of the income tax for this portion.

I would much prefer the Kiwi scenario of 10% more income tax + if you send every single cent, another 8% of the remaining 90%, which comes up to 10% + 7.2%. 17.2% vs 20%+++. Do the math?
 

winnipegjets

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
I have been harping about the most relevant fact of all... the fact that CPF, while not perfect, is an extremely good scheme.

I've given reasons why this is so and pointed out why it is superior to many pension schemes that are currently operating in the Western world.

It is definitely superior to the NZ superannuation scheme which I will be receiving if I succeed in reaching a ripe old age of 65. I'll get about NZD290 per week which is the same amount that some down and out beneficiary who has never worked a day in his life will receive.

The unfairness of the NZ scheme is what disgusts me. It pays the same amount to all regardless of how hard they have worked to contribute to government coffers over the years.

CPF, on the other hand, is MY money. I get out what I put in.

If you are fine, you can't give a damn about others in your community. That in short is your attitude towards your fellow beings. Typical CONservative.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Kaipoh is not denying that CPF has its value. Using your example, he is saying that had the govt given you a fair share of the returns, you probably could have been better than $2.5m

It's like the case of the kid who paid $10 for $12 worth of sweets and keeps praising the vendor about giving him the additional $2 worth while the same vendor gave all other kids $4 more.


You don't have to educate me regarding the power of compound interest for the simple reason that all my daily expenses are met by interest from my term deposits. Besides you don't have to leave your CPF as cash in the fund. It should be used to the hilt to buy property. Since the money cannot be spent, what better way to use it than to fund property investments without affecting your monthly cash flow whatsoever. It's a classic example of how you can have your cake and eat it too. Without the CPF scheme, I can categorically state that I'd be at least $2.5 million poorer today as I would not have had sufficient income to purchase property for investment.
 

kingrant

Alfrescian
Loyal
The worst argument is from those who kept saying that no other funds pay as well as the CPF and that we have no cause to ask for more.

That is utter rubbish. Crap! Because where CPF is concerned, we the owners of the funds, are not given the option and freewill to withdraw them and invest them in any other better growing instrument! Instead they are locked up by this govt who invest them as they please without transparency and accountability. So it is stupid to compare with our own other private funds that we can put with fund managers of our choosing. People who use this argument is using it as a strawman. That is why nincompoops like TCJ are completely and negigently oblivious of this main distinction.
 

Reddog

Alfrescian
Loyal
CPF, on the other hand, is MY money. I get out what I put in.

You are WRONG ! You will never be able to take out ALL the money you put in. NEVER. Even on the day you die there will always be money left (especially) in your Medisave Account. See your faulty thinking.
 
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scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
After his honest dialogue session our dishonest lawyer and MP gave an online interview where he said that people prefer to keep their money in CPF because it has higher interest rate than bank's interest. And he kept babbling about it.

Now talk about straw man arguments. - this must be up there with the best.


The worst argument is from those who kept saying that no other funds pay as well as the CPF and that we have no cause to ask for more.

That is utter rubbish. Crap! Because where CPF is concerned, we the owners of the funds, are not given the option and freewill to withdraw them and invest them in any other better growing instrument! Instead they are locked up by this govt who invest them as they please without transparency and accountability. So it is stupid to compare with our own other private funds that we can put with fund managers of our choosing. People who use this argument is using it as a strawman. That is why nincompoops like TCJ are completely and negigently oblivious of this main distinction.
 

rambo22

Alfrescian
Loyal
Why is it that major issues like CPF doesnt need to go tru parliament consent

our garment can suka suka increase
 

kingrant

Alfrescian
Loyal
It is enlightening that this auto recording reply of his says that he has not heard a word of what the 76 old lady has been saying. Not a word! And that is the way the PAP works.

After his honest dialogue session our dishonest lawyer and MP gave an online interview where he said that people prefer to keep their money in CPF because it has higher interest rate than bank's interest. And he kept babbling about it.

Now talk about straw man arguments. - this must be up there with the best.
 

Thick Face Black Heart

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
Vincent W at Hong Lim and other critics of the Govt have already said that Roy erred. So he did apologise. It is a separate matter.

The PM suing is also not acceptable. Most agree on it. A bullying trait from his father's days
The $100K collected from hundreds of people within a week must mean something
Couple of thousand people making their way to Hong Lim must mean something.

So please stopping harping about Roy did wrong. We know that. We are talking about the elephant in the room and the man called Roy that pointed it out.


The clear minded chaps can separate issues and they understand the government has refused to be accountable and also refused to address the issue of withholding cpf funds which is causing havoc to many old folks.

When VW and AA were sued they apologised quickly and then continued to hit hard at the pressing issues when the matter had been cleared. That to me speaks volumes because it shows their focus is right and they don't allow the govt to distract the issue with libel suit.

Now one can argue that Roy should have done the same and no one would have thought less of him save pap supporters and the dumbfucks. But since that is water under the bridge, the only thing we can do now is to refocus. The silver lining is the massive outpouring of support which had added a further blowto the pap and made the PM look extremely bad.

Another silver lining is this allowed activists like HHH to shine and also VW to redeem himself after the labour day speech that was highly divisive and out of point.
 
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