Politics & Identity & Language - the Lee Family Story

scroobal · Apr 21, 2014

I wonder how many Singaporeans know that our first Prime Minister had from birth spoke as his first language Malay (Peranakan Malay). His mother used Malay as his the language of choice until the very end when she spoke to her kids, her daughter-in-law and the grandchildren. Even when conversation tuned to English, she preferred Malay as it was the language that she could best express the emotive cues well.

How many are also aware that our first Prime Minister did a deed poll to remove his Christian name and it does not appear in his NRIC.

When he convinced his parents not to give his youngest brother a christian name in 1933, you know that this was a man that thought about identity when he was young. Ironically the sibling that did not have a christian name ended up being Christian.

The only other Prime Minister that I know that changed his identity for political reason is Solomon Bandaranaike, the 4th PM of Sri Lanka who was born into a rich Anglican family and went to Oxford and took to Law. To pander to the majority Buddhists, he switched religion and made sweeping changes to language that plunged the country into civil war that lasted for decades.

Asterix · Apr 21, 2014

scroobal said:
The only other Prime Minister that I know that changed his identity for political reason is Solomon Bandaranaike, the 4th PM of Sri Lanka who was born into a rich Anglican family and went to Oxford and took to Law. To pander to the majority Buddhists, he switched religion and made sweeping changes to language that plunged the country into civil war that lasted for decades.

WhatHisName supposedly said
Paris vaut bien une messe
Paris is well worth a mass
He died an unnatural death

kingrant · Apr 21, 2014

Wasnt it his watch repairer father who gave him the name Harry because he thought the British Empire would last a 1000 years?

This family is very adaptable. See how quickly he changed sides when the Japs invaders came and he ended up working for the Kempetai.

This is a man who puts the bamboo to shame.

scroobal said:
I wonder how many Singaporeans know that our first Prime Minister had from birth spoke as his first language Malay (Peranakan Malay). His mother used Malay as his the language of choice until the very end when she spoke to her kids, her daughter-in-law and the grandchildren. Even when conversation tuned to English, she preferred Malay as it was the language that she could best express the emotive cues well.

How many are also aware that our first Prime Minister did a deed poll to remove his Christian name and it does not appear in his NRIC.

When he convinced his parents not to give his youngest brother a christian name in 1933, you know that this was a man that thought about identity when he was young. Ironically the sibling that did not have a christian name ended up being Christian.

The only other Prime Minister that I know that changed his identity for political reason is Solomon Bandaranaike, the 4th PM of Sri Lanka who was born into a rich Anglican family and went to Oxford and took to Law. To pander to the majority Buddhists, he switched religion and made sweeping changes to language that plunged the country into civil war that lasted for decades.

AungSanSuShi · Apr 21, 2014

scroobal said:
I wonder how many Singaporeans know that our first Prime Minister had from birth spoke as his first language Malay (Peranakan Malay). His mother used Malay as his the language of choice until the very end

No wonder when I first heard your first PM speak, his Engrand accent sounds so much like those from the educated class of Malaya. There is this porlumpar -a regular contributor to Straits Times' and Today's forums- called Ng Ya Ken who advocates all Sinkies to emulate LKY's Engrand accent.

kingrant · Apr 21, 2014

Have you heard his fuck buddy Yong PH speak? Even more Engreeshy....same mold, as with his wife Kwa.

AungSanSuShi said:
No wonder when I first heard your first PM speak, his Engrand accent sounds so much like those from the educated class of Malaya. There is this porlumpar -a regular contributor to Straits Times' and Today's forums- called Ng Ya Ken who advocates all Sinkies to emulate LKY's Engrand accent.

AungSanSuShi · Apr 21, 2014

In one of his biographies, LKY mentions he has native English speakers of British English to read (or tutor) his children regularly. He knows the importance of having native English speakers teach Engrish. But it is OK for him to let non-native Engrish speakers teach Sinkies Engrand in school. No wonder Sinkies speak Engrand with a very distinctive Malayan (Southeast Asian) accent.

AungSanSuShi · Apr 21, 2014

kingrant said:
Have you heard his fuck buddy Yong PH speak? Even more Engreeshy....same mold, as with his wife Kwa.

Both LKY and his wife spent years at Cambridge, right? Yet they came back to Sinkieland with an un-British accent.

scroobal · Apr 21, 2014

Re: Politics & Identity & Language - the Lee Family Story

This is called politics. His time many spoke like him. He made sure that the English language took second place to Mandarin crippling those who can articulate better than him and his kids. Now the PRC PR and new citizens laugh at us for our half Mandarin.

AungSanSuShi said:
In one of his biographies, LKY mentions he has native English speakers of British English to read (or tutor) his children regularly. He knows the importance of having native English speakers teach Engrish. But it is OK for him to let non-native Engrish speakers teach Sinkies Engrand in school. No wonder Sinkies speak Engrand with a very distinctive Malayan (Southeast Asian) accent.

scroobal · Apr 21, 2014

Re: Politics & Identity & Language - the Lee Family Story

In the words of his late mother - pukul setengah mati - whack until half dead - our language and our identity. After the influx of FTs and new citizens - pukul mati - whack until dead.

AungSanSuShi said:
No wonder when I first heard your first PM speak, his Engrand accent sounds so much like those from the educated class of Malaya. There is this porlumpar -a regular contributor to Straits Times' and Today's forums- called Ng Ya Ken who advocates all Sinkies to emulate LKY's Engrand accent.

Ash007 · Apr 21, 2014

Re: Politics & Identity & Language - the Lee Family Story

There is nothing wrong the use and command of language. In fact to be a good politician you need to not only have a good command but also be able to emulate the different accent to your benefit.

scroobal said:
This is called politics. His time many spoke like him. He made sure that the English language took second place to Mandarin crippling those who can articulate better than him and his kids. Now the PRC PR and new citizens laugh at us for our half Mandarin.

zhihau · Apr 21, 2014

scroobal said:
I wonder how many Singaporeans know that our first Prime Minister had from birth spoke as his first language Malay (Peranakan Malay).

is our current PM fluent in Russian? dah? het?

scroobal · Apr 21, 2014

Re: Politics & Identity & Language - the Lee Family Story

Not sure you understood what I wrote. Our standard of English was not as good as our father' time. At least those parents who attended English mission schools.

When old man had his forums in NUS, you could see students struggling to articulate and they could not keep up the banter. And these were students who were more confident of the language so they stood up to speak. Remember than post grad girl. Even Han struggled but managed to get his point across. Only the Reuters girl held firm ( note that she is journalist with Reuters)

I have attended / seen such forums in overseas Universities and you see the students command of language is on par or better than the PM or state leaders that they addressing.

Ash007 said:
There is nothing wrong the use and command of language. In fact to be a good politician you need to not only have a good command but also be able to emulate the different accent to your benefit.

scroobal · Apr 21, 2014

Re: Politics & Identity & Language - the Lee Family Story

No idea, probably lost it after lack of use. Maybe more confident with his Tagalog.

zhihau said:
is our current PM fluent in Russian? dah? het?

johnny333 · Apr 21, 2014

AungSanSuShi said:
In one of his biographies, LKY mentions he has native English speakers of British English to read (or tutor) his children regularly. He knows the importance of having native English speakers teach Engrish. But it is OK for him to let non-native Engrish speakers teach Sinkies Engrand in school. No wonder Sinkies speak Engrand with a very distinctive Malayan (Southeast Asian) accent.

His grandson was having difficulties in a Spore school & that's why transferred to the American School. Any other "Sporean" who wants to attend a foreign school in Spore must seek permission from the authorities. Why is there a double standard :confused:

Many who plan to go study overseas in Canada & US would have found it easier if they pursued an American or Canadian curriculum. Spore's curriculum is only for those who plan to go to NUS. In fact all you only need GCE O to enter a university in Canada.

laksaboy · Apr 21, 2014

kingrant said:
Wasnt it his watch repairer father who gave him the name Harry because he thought the British Empire would last a 1000 years?

This family is very adaptable. See how quickly he changed sides when the Japs invaders came and he ended up working for the Kempetai.

This is a man who puts the bamboo to shame.

So adaptable, now their grandchildren have hanyu pinyin names. :wink:

Ash007 · Apr 21, 2014

Re: Politics & Identity & Language - the Lee Family Story

Sorry about the earlier reply, I have to cut it short to attend to dinner. I was about to write that on a regular basis I usually mentioned that Singaporean do not speak English but rather Singlish. It is indeed sad that as a "multi" lingual,cultural society we have lost the ability and command of not just English but also of the dialects, Malay. There is a great article written by a Malaysian Chinese studying in Peking university, about how many were surprised about her command of the language. In it, it also mentioned how LKY decides to switch to the English medium in education and completely wiped out the Chinese schools etc. I hope the Tiongs learned something from this.

It is not only the forums that is dismal in Singapore, but the question, attitude being asked and replied.

scroobal said:
Not sure you understood what I wrote. Our standard of English was not as good as our father' time. At least those parents who attended English mission schools.

When old man had his forums in NUS, you could see students struggling to articulate and they could not keep up the banter. And these were students who were more confident of the language so they stood up to speak. Remember than post grad girl. Even Han struggled but managed to get his point across. Only the Reuters girl held firm ( note that she is journalist with Reuters)

I have attended / seen such forums in overseas Universities and you see the students command of language is on par or better than the PM or state leaders that they addressing.

halsey02 · Apr 21, 2014

Re: Politics & Identity & Language - the Lee Family Story

scroobal said:
No idea, probably lost it after lack of use. Maybe more confident with his Tagalog.

The language thing had been tossed around ever since "you know who" became the PM. I learned to read Chinese & write it, before I stepped into a government English school, the fact is my Chinese spoken & written was far better than my English. But I chose English as my main language, as my family believe that this was the language of commerce, with Chinese as heritage. I even took up Malay, as a non examination subject, so effectively I am trilingual. But I still choose to use English..but does this make me less Chinese or more English or Malay?? I even attempted to learn Tamil, no kidding. I had a neighbour who was from the Brahmin class, poor fella, had to learn the classics, Tamil, play the sitar...ahh! I picked up a bit Tamil now forgotten..tried the sitar.

My point is, why are we allowing the government to dictate what we should learn in languages?? I care less if LKY was to speak Malay, English etc... as long as he is speaking in a language, that I understand in...but his son speaks English...I don't understand what the f#@#% he is getting at, never mind the Chinese, Malay..whatever..Russian?? or now he is going to speak Tagalog, Ilacano, etc..

I can never get to understand the issue with this this thing on who speaks what...and this mother tongue nonsense thing...we allow ourselves to be dictated & made confused over by one man...our mother tongue is what my MOTHER SPEAK...and that is a dialect, one of the languages in the many Chinese Languages & Mandarin is just one dialect....I speak three main dialects well & understand quite a few & even the sub dialect in which my mum speaks...
get the drift?

tanwahtiu · Apr 21, 2014

Re: Politics & Identity & Language - the Lee Family Story

nonsense, then you are hypocrite if you switch ascent.

Speak in you natural ascent, please.

Ash007 said:
There is nothing wrong the use and command of language. In fact to be a good politician you need to not only have a good command but also be able to emulate the different accent to your benefit.

tanwahtiu · Apr 21, 2014

Re: Politics & Identity & Language - the Lee Family Story

Sir, there is aw English and there is superscale English.

You have superscale English.

What is superscale English? It is superscale pay civil servant tan jia Engrish.

I got people complain my aw english and ask to write less leh.

scroobal said:
Not sure you understood what I wrote. Our standard of English was not as good as our father' time. At least those parents who attended English mission schools.

When old man had his forums in NUS, you could see students struggling to articulate and they could not keep up the banter. And these were students who were more confident of the language so they stood up to speak. Remember than post grad girl. Even Han struggled but managed to get his point across. Only the Reuters girl held firm ( note that she is journalist with Reuters)

I have attended / seen such forums in overseas Universities and you see the students command of language is on par or better than the PM or state leaders that they addressing.

sochi2014 · Apr 21, 2014

Re: Politics & Identity & Language - the Lee Family Story

Harry is Christian name meh?? Can find in the bible or not?

Not angmo are all Christians lah. Especially those showing you the middle finger.

http://sammyboy.com/showthread.php?...u-want-to-get-hurt-quot&p=1853305#post1853305

Politics & Identity & Language - the Lee Family Story

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