Inferiority complex and playing to the gallery.
-
IP addresses are NOT logged in this forum so there's no point asking. Please note that this forum is full of homophobes, racists, lunatics, schizophrenics & absolute nut jobs with a smattering of geniuses, Chinese chauvinists, Moderate Muslims and last but not least a couple of "know-it-alls" constantly sprouting their dubious wisdom. If you believe that content generated by unsavory characters might cause you offense PLEASE LEAVE NOW! Sammyboy Admin and Staff are not responsible for your hurt feelings should you choose to read any of the content here. The OTHER forum is HERE so please stop asking.
The acute and incredible stupidity of Dr Ng Eng Han and Tan Chuan-Jin
- Thread starter Malays Must Vote PAP!
- Start date
Inferiority complex and playing to the gallery.
The issue is not the fence. The issue is the theatrical confected anger and self-righteous hypocrisy. Pointless to argue if you can't get the issue right. Get it right and we can then argue about rubber plantations and encroaching fences.
That's how special forces carry out state assigned roles. Those three who died and 33 who were injured were collateral damage. There was no embarrassment on the part of the Indonesians. Instead, there was a lot of anger in Indonesia over the trial and conviction of these men in a "court of law" where they were not treated as prisoners of war.
The Indons did and have done more. They name their frigates after these national heroes just as they have named many of their warships after their national heroes who have killed the British and Dutch. Little island should not consider itself that special. Ng Eng Han, Tan Chuan Jin, the other young paper general and the rest of the ilk would be best advised to stop their theatrical pretense and confected anger.
No, la. LKY did it on advice of Suharto to give face to Indo army after behind the scene "wayang kulit" done by Lee Khoon Choy. After performing the ceremony, life moved on and Suharto and LKY became buddies. A token apology for years of peace and prosperity, a good bargain for LKY.
To the Indons esp their military they took this matter very seriously .... the sprinkle of flowers on the graves by the then PM of S'pore was not enough, senior government and military officers on their first visit to Jakarta are required to visit the cemetery where the two marines were laid to rest to pay their respect.
That's why Mahathir has his last laugh...LKY and his people forced to drink Shit water.
To treat the commandos as prisoners of war would mean there was a war between Spore and Indonesian at the time when the offence was committed but there was none. To treat the commandos as common criminals who perpetrated the crime in civvies was the right thing to do.
The Indons killed innocent civilians and yet they demanded how the killers should be punished. This is inhumane way of expressing regret for their crimes.
Last edited:
History of mankind is always full of overlapping claims. What yours now could at some point in time belonged to others and there will be no endings to the argument. We should just argue based on current context than irrelevant issues that has no bearing to the recent dispute.
Last edited:
I will be the first to say that this Govt screwed up opening an old wound.
Pointless bringing history to every argument. No dispute on the historical facts but not relevant to the issue at hand. Honestly Imperial colonialism had its time to correct the errors of the past. Every time you invoke history, I know more likely than not you are on shaky grounds. Its a red flag.
If the commandoes did the same thing in another country. They would have got the same treatment more or less. I don't think you know the meaning of collateral damage. There was no military target anywhere in sight where the bombs went off.
By the way, you do not have to convince me, just the court of public opinion, albeit small in our context minus the congenital racists that we all endure to no end.
Pointless bringing history to every argument. No dispute on the historical facts but not relevant to the issue at hand. Honestly Imperial colonialism had its time to correct the errors of the past. Every time you invoke history, I know more likely than not you are on shaky grounds. Its a red flag.
If the commandoes did the same thing in another country. They would have got the same treatment more or less. I don't think you know the meaning of collateral damage. There was no military target anywhere in sight where the bombs went off.
By the way, you do not have to convince me, just the court of public opinion, albeit small in our context minus the congenital racists that we all endure to no end.
There was a war.
It was a war between Indonesia and Malaysia (of which Singapore, Sabah and Serawak was part of). This war ended when Indonesia and Malaysia signed a peace treaty in August 1966 in Bangkok to end the war. The MacDonald House bombing occurred on 10 March 1965, one year and five months before the end of this war.
"Konfrontasi" was a term coined in Jan 1963 by then Indonesian's FM, Dr Subandrio and it refers to Indonesia's efforts in breaking up Malaysia. This was because Sukarno viewed the creation of Malaysia as the Brits attempt to maintain and continue, in effect, colonial rule in this part of the world whilst allowing "independence" for its colonial possessions of Borneo, Malaya and Singapore. The small, undeclared war began when Indonesia launched a series of cross-border raids into Malaysia (Singapore, Sabah and Serawak). British, Australian and NZ troops too were involved in that war with British troops mounting cross-border operations (Operation Claret) into Indonesian territory. All three services, Army, Air Force and the Navy of these Commonwealth countries took part in this war. Some of these squadrons operated out of Tengah Airbase in Singapore.
In warfare, the rules of warfare applies. Soldiers caught by the opposing side are treated as prisoners of war and not as common criminals.
Men like Dr Ng Eng Han and paper boy-generals like Tan Chuan Jin and Chan Chun Sing and the little Ng Eng Hans and Tan Chuan Jins are incredibly and acutely stupid in either not knowing their history or in attempting to use this non-issue to stoke nationalism and to use it as a distraction and bargaining chip for inaction in denying the Indonesians the right to extradite Indonesian white-collared criminals. Singapore continues to shelter Indonesian criminals like Bambang Sutrisno, Sudjiono Timan and their ilk. These are common criminals who have stolen billions of dollars (trillions in Rupiah) and parked these illicit billions in Singapore. They have been given shelter and protection in Singapore. Some of these criminals, like Agus Anwar, have even been granted Singapore citizenship.
Men like Dr Ng Eng Han and paper boy-generals like Tan Chuan Jin, Chan Chun Sing and their ilk , stupidly think they can purvey rubbish, half-truths and falsehoods in the era of the Internet. Sooner or later, someone will have enough of their acute stupidity and nonsense and will expose them.
Every time I invoke history, it is to show up the facts. The people who are on "shaky grounds" will be people who purvey half-truths, make unfounded claims and sweeping generalisations without being able to back it up with facts, historical or otherwise. The people who are on "shaky grounds" will be people who attempt to dismiss such historical facts as "shaky grounds", "red flags", etc. Would you say you are guilty of this and hence, the attempt to downplay and dismiss facts, historical or otherwise, as being the preserve of someone who you illogically claimed, is standing on "shaky grounds" for doing so? Think about it.
Singapore was part of the "Coalition of the Willing (COW)" in supporting and participating in the first (1991) war in Iraq. The war opened with COW dropping 88,500 tons of bombs to destroy military as well as targetted civilian infrastructure. Thousands of innocent civilians were injured and killed in the opening hours of the war. Singapore accepted these civilian infrastructure as legitimate targets and accepted that these civilians buildings destroyed and the tens of thousands of innocent civilians who would be injured and killed as inevitable "collateral damage". SAF troops returning from Singapore's participation in the war were awarded medals.
Singapore supported the second 2003 "Shock and Awe" war against Iraq where the Pentagon had declared it plans to shatter Iraq "physically, emotionally and psychologically" by raining down as many as 800 cruise missiles in two days on the city of Baghdad. This is a city of about 7 million innocent civilians. Hundreds of dead civilian bodies per day - not just three in one day from one building in Singapore and hundreds more casualties - not just 33 in one day in Singapore - were brought to Iraq's morgues and hospitals.
If Ng Eng Han and those boy-generals and people like you accept that the targetting of non-military installations and buildings and the injuring and killing of innocent Iraqi civilians are inevitable by-products of war and are nothing more than "collateral damage", shouldn't those 3+33, by the very same argument, logic and rationale used and relied upon, be accepted as collateral damage as well?
I am not trying to convince you or the "court of public opinion". I am laying out the facts, historical or otherwise, as they are.
At least we agree on something.
Itu assam pedas sedap tak, Tuan ?
please lah. if you wish to introduce the french during the napoleonic era into south east asian history and colonialism in the region, you must consult me first. otherwise, very embarrassing ok?
first of all, the french navy was essentially destroyed in 1805. whatever that was left was cooped up in ports blockaded by the british in europe. that was hardly any french navy sailing the seas in their african and indian ocean possessions, let alone south east asia or the indon archipelago. the dutch were in the indon islands, but by the time of napoleon, they plus belgian, danish, swedish, and some german principalities were allied to the british, russians, austrians, prussians fighting tooth and nail with the french on the european continent.
by the summer of 1812, napoleon was already on the march into eastern europe and Russia. they had pretty much given up on naval excursions in the mediterranean and atlantic, since their ships were bottled up by the british. napoleon had over 600k men invading russia in the summer of 1812, but retreated from russia and eastern europe in winter with only 25k men. if you don't understand and don't know this military disaster of 1812 for the french, please don't anyhow hantam european colonialism of south east asia if you even know this simple fact. if you like me to school you more about french history, please feel free to retort. i hate to embarrass you or anyone here.
forgot to add....
ang mo are da bestest!
ang mo are da bestest!
There's nothing to be embarrassed about. There's no need to gloat like a little kid or roll your eyes like a little effeminate juvenile over this when it was clearly an absent-minded error when typing and was meant to refer to the "Dutch and British" and not "French and British" in respect of the discussion on Java/Indonesia colonisation by the Dutch and British and not French. I used to be able to edit my posts but can no longer do so after a certain time has lapsed, hence that "French" in place of "Dutch" error has remained.
BTW, the French colonial empire was one of the largest in the world in the 19th & 20th century. In SE Asia, they colonised parts of Asia described as French Indochina, i.e. Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia. One of the French's earliest attack in Indochina was in 1858 by French Admiral Charles Rigault de Genouilly and that order to attack came from Louis-Napoléon Bonaparte aka Napoleon III. There were no Mirages aircrafts back then, just French naval gunships. So French naval power was used during the period when they colonised parts of Asia.
I won't correct some of the "errors" you have made in your post as those numbers depend on which sources you have relied upon. So figures from 27,000 to 40,000 have been used as an estimate of the numbers that made it across the Berezina River. However, your claim that 600,000 involved in the Patriotic War of 1812 (French invasion of Russia) is substantially more than the 400-500K frontline troops recorded by historians as representing the numbers that invaded Russia.
BTW, I am talking about the French and not Dutch colonisation specifically wrt to your post and in this specific instance. When I use 1812, I am not taking about 1812 wrt to French Indochina (1850s) but wrt to the British Empire and the Dutch East Indies. So try to calm down and not get overly excited and start gloating or rolling your eyes again if you spot something.
What kind of Retardation are you suffering from?
I listened to the actual interview with CNA. He was sorry that the "problem" arose because of the naming of the ship. He was not "sorry for the naming the ship" - that is their right. LKY actually recognized the two as "heroes" when he laid the wreaths over their graves.
No leader in Indonesia will "lose face" by directly apologizing for the naming of their ship which is their right. Their Foreign Minister and the Head of their Armed Forces have done the best they could under the circumstances. Our so-called leaders "should just move on" just as they are so found of advising others.
We do not want another case of the HEN talking COCK.
Last edited:
yah lah, we know that. after napoleon got his butt kicked and exiled on a remote island for good, the french went back to colonize new lands in africa, asia and the south seas, endorsed by their british peers. they were no different from the dutch, british, italian and other european colonizers. europeans fought among themselves in europe, but would gang up, divide, conquer, fight and kill peoples of non-euro origins if opportunities arose.
you're right that ang mo were robbers, murderers, and plunderers. they would seize land, kill your servants, and rape your daughters if given the slightest chance. after all, at that time, they were near-invincible. law of the jungle at work. they could have exterminated all inferior natives. unfortunately, there were too merciful, leaving some behind. nice discussing history with you.
yah lah, we know that. after napoleon got his butt kicked and exiled on a remote island for good, the french went back to colonize new lands in africa, asia and the south seas, endorsed by their british peers. they were no different from the dutch, british, italian and other european colonizers. europeans fought among themselves in europe, but would gang up, divide, conquer, fight and kill peoples of non-euro origins if opportunities arose.
you're right that ang mo were robbers, murderers, and plunderers. they would seize land, kill your servants, and rape your daughters if given the slightest chance. after all, at that time, they were near-invincible. law of the jungle at work. they could have exterminated all inferior natives. unfortunately, there were too merciful, leaving some behind. nice discussing history with you.
which makes me wonder wtf is the difference between the enslavement of the world no thanks to the subprime crisis toxic shit that the americans have imposed on every corner of the globe?
same shit different name,,,....
used to be opium and now its their toxic debt.....
your country doesnt open up your makrkets to riad and plunder they will militate against you......
same old fucking story and the same old angmoh raiders who are determined to ruin your lives....and guess what?> the citizens of their countries in both eras were living that great a life as well....
wah history repeats itself again.....
You are right.
The "apology" can be viewed here (0.31 - 0.43 ) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31mgZfMI3-A
The earlier part has been edited out by CNA so the context of Moeldoko's "apology" that follows in the broadcasted segment by CNA is missing.
CNA's translation into English is misleading at best and self-servingly mischievious at worse. If one understands Malay and/or Indonesian, the grammar, structure, subtleties and nuances of the language, it is quite clear Moeldoko, even with the context edited out, is not apologising for the naming of the ship. The key word here is the conjunction "bahwa" ("in that") Moeldoko uses that connects his "apology" to his explanation. This is what Moeldoko said:
"Dan sekali lagi mohon maaf bahwa apa yang telah kami pikirkan tidak sama sekali perkaitian dengan membahwakan emosi kembali".
"Once again apologies in that what we have thought is in no way at all connected to bring about the re-arousal of emotions".
"Once again apologies in that what we have thought is in no way at all connected to bring about the re-arousal of emotions".
Even with the the context edited out by CNA, it is hardly an apology for the naming of the frigates. At most, it can be spinned into an apology for the "emotions re-aroused" and not the naming of the frigates.
I have no doubt that if the context was presented and the earlier segment before the "apology" was edited out, it will show very clearly that Moeldoko did not apologise for the naming of the frigates but like what he said, the names are the Indonesian's final decision and cannot be changed.
Ng Eng Han, Tan Chuan Jin, that other paper boy-general Chan Chun Sing and their ilk would do well to know the region's history and Singapore's own national language (Malay). This is so that they will not be seen to be acutely and disgracefully stupid when they try desperately to save their own faces after opportunistically jumping on this non-issue for their infantile posturings, juvenile grandstanding and cheap theatre.
