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Rental and Resale (All about Rental and Resale prices in Iskandar)

Frodo

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Please ask the professional to consult Mr Frodo. Now owning 2 properties and a big car with his lovely wife and more happier sch children going to the private sch in JB. Wahaha..:p

Wah Potter bro…don’t sabo me leh:o…wait people get wrong impression think I am some kind of role model here. Far from it! I believe most people here, or everybody here, would have own cash to pay for downpayment for their house. I don’t. I only have a bit while the rest have to borrow. And it really helped that my first landed was before the RM1 million rule otherwise the cash required for downpayment would have been much more which would be a no go purchase and have to say bye bye to JB. As for subsequent condo purchase, it was made possible only because no downpayment was needed due to the 20% rebate. Marketing gimmick or not, without the rebate the condo purchase would be a no go too. No doubt I am holding a job in SG but job security is a concern. Things can sustain if still have job and still have relative good health to continue working. If not, also jia lat. Besides, I also no money to send kids to private schools here….so we are going the cheap way by doing online studies..so far kids like it and hopefully they do well..maybe motivate them to get scholarships..if cannot then try to marry rich young men with $2.6m in bank account and be tai tai….:p
 

winners

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Loyal
So be it then. Since you said cannot dump, I thought you might want to qualify your statement so that others can learn here.

I want to reiterate that I am speaking the truth when I said my friend has done it. So honestly, I am surprised when you said it cannot be done. Maybe it applies to certain cases. I don't know.
I think Tekkun is definitely wrong to say cannot dump. It is definitely possible, but only at a loss (with the current situation and much difficulty to find buyers) and also several penalties to pay, especially those with bank loans. Whether the unit is already VP or not, definitely it can be resold. As a matter of fact, it has nothing to do with the developer because you are just finding a new owner for your own unit. I don't know of any government restriction (similar to HDB's 5-year MOP) on this as yet by Malaysia.

HDB's 5-year MOP is imposed because they claimed that it is "subsidized" housing. Believe it or not is all up to you.
 
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winners

Alfrescian
Loyal
Wah Potter bro…don’t sabo me leh:o…wait people get wrong impression think I am some kind of role model here. Far from it! I believe most people here, or everybody here, would have own cash to pay for downpayment for their house. I don’t. I only have a bit while the rest have to borrow. And it really helped that my first landed was before the RM1 million rule otherwise the cash required for downpayment would have been much more which would be a no go purchase and have to say bye bye to JB. As for subsequent condo purchase, it was made possible only because no downpayment was needed due to the 20% rebate. Marketing gimmick or not, without the rebate the condo purchase would be a no go too. No doubt I am holding a job in SG but job security is a concern. Things can sustain if still have job and still have relative good health to continue working. If not, also jia lat. Besides, I also no money to send kids to private schools here….so we are going the cheap way by doing online studies..so far kids like it and hopefully they do well..maybe motivate them to get scholarships..if cannot then try to marry rich young men with $2.6m in bank account and be tai tai….:p
Frankly, if you ask me, I think you have over committed, especially with only 1 breadwinner in the family.
 

Frodo

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Loyal
I think Tekkun is definitely wrong to say cannot dump. It is definitely possible, but only at a loss (with the current situation and much difficulty to find buyers) and also several penalties to pay, especially those with bank loans. Whether the unit is already VP or not, definitely it can be resold. As a matter of fact, it has nothing to do with the developer because you are just finding a new owner for your own unit. I don't know of any government restriction (similar to HDB's 5-year MOP) on this as yet by Malaysia.

HDB's 5-year MOP is imposed because they claimed that it is "subsidized" housing. Believe it or not is all up to you.

I believe what Tekkun is saying is that the financial penalties involved in dumping the property could be prohibitive such that it would not be feasible to go ahead with dumping. Not only would you lose what you have put in, very likely you may need to fork out extra cash in penalties and other incidental payments that become payable, depending on the terms and conditions of the purchase.
 

winners

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Loyal
I believe what Tekkun is saying is that the financial penalties involved in dumping the property could be prohibitive such that it would not be feasible to go ahead with dumping. Not only would you lose what you have put in, very likely you may need to fork out extra cash in penalties and other incidental payments that become payable, depending on the terms and conditions of the purchase.
This is possible because of the present down market situation. But as mpan12 mentioned, it is a matter of either you bite the bullet and to accept a 1-time cut loss now or be prepared to hold on to a depreciating asset going into the future. So, it is up to the individual owner to work out the loss and thereafter, to best decide for himself/herself.

And furthermore, if the unit is still under construction, the current owner only needs to return to the bank for what had already been disbursed, coupled with some penalties for early loan redemption.
 
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potter

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Loyal
Wah Potter bro…don’t sabo me leh:o…wait people get wrong impression think I am some kind of role model here. Far from it! I believe most people here, or everybody here, would have own cash to pay for downpayment for their house. I don’t. I only have a bit while the rest have to borrow. And it really helped that my first landed was before the RM1 million rule otherwise the cash required for downpayment would have been much more which would be a no go purchase and have to say bye bye to JB. As for subsequent condo purchase, it was made possible only because no downpayment was needed due to the 20% rebate. Marketing gimmick or not, without the rebate the condo purchase would be a no go too. No doubt I am holding a job in SG but job security is a concern. Things can sustain if still have job and still have relative good health to continue working. If not, also jia lat. Besides, I also no money to send kids to private schools here….so we are going the cheap way by doing online studies..so far kids like it and hopefully they do well..maybe motivate them to get scholarships..if cannot then try to marry rich young men with $2.6m in bank account and be tai tai….:p

At least u r not a sitting duck. U will be rich again.
Xebay11!! , i see 2.6m (trademark) again, frodo pls give xebay11 more credits.:p
 

Frodo

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Loyal
Frankly, if you ask me, I think you have over committed, especially with only 1 breadwinner in the family.

That’s why I also mentioned that some friends think I am digging my own grave. As shared before, what I did is certainly not risk-free but it was a “now or never”, “no risk no gain” decision. It was my once in a lifetime chance to make a difference, hopefully for the better. So long as my job is intact and rental income is coming in, things can hold together though still tight. Just have to bite the bullet for next 4-5 years. If things don’t work out as planned we still have some options…can be to rent out landed property and move into condo. Or maybe even sell landed (which by then should be worth over RM1 million since nearby landed properties already near that level if I am not wrong). I am of course being hopeful. I know life may not always turn out the way we like it to. But if we let the uncertain future paralyze us now, then it means nothing will ever change and we remain stuck where we are, and just be reactive to what comes next.
 

Frodo

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Loyal
Actually he was doing fine until he went for the second Johor property.

We got into the 2nd property simply because there was no need for cash outlay if we could secure a 80% loan. And having secured that, we took that as a green light. And because it was fully furnished it would mean no reno needed. Sure, the furnishings may not be top-notch but we can live with that…so long as it is not coffee shop plastic chairs they are giving us or some furniture and TV from 2nd hand shops. Also, the agent told us there could be an option to let KSL manage the unit since one of the towers is a hotel. If that really materialises, it would also help towards the mortgage payments. I mean, you can call me and my wife naïve or stupid to believe this, but such a deal (if I may call it such) can never happen for us in Singapore. And because it is in Zone A, hopefully in a few years’ time things look brighter overall. With nearby Tebrau area getting more action, perhaps one can be hopeful. Like I said, I covet all your well-wishes!:smile:
 

xebay11

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Loyal
At least u r not a sitting duck. U will be rich again.
Xebay11!! , i see 2.6m (trademark) again, frodo pls give xebay11 more credits.:p

These days minimum must have $4 million assets to be comfortable, at a safe and prudent projection of 3% returns that is only about $120k PA, to live comfortably means having to move to Johor. In Singapore, means still much a peasant life, no restaurant everyday and maybe Japanese car only.
 

tstar

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Loyal
Frodo has a landed house. i think that is why he does not need to worry too much. near permas gng landed don't come cheap. there are only a few gng communities.

nowadays the developers sell semi d in gng for rm1.6 mil near permas. no facilities inside. plus reno around rm1.7 to 1.8 mil.
if got swimming pool like straitsview res on a solid ground, , at least rm2.2mil.
 
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Frodo

Alfrescian
Loyal
Frodo has a landed house. i think that is why he does not need to worry too much. near permas gng landed don't come cheap. there are only a few gng communities. local do not go for senibong as it is on a reclaimed land.
nowadays the developers sell semi d in gng for rm1.6 mil near permas. no facilities inside. plus reno around rm1.7 to 1.8 mil.
if got swimming pool like straitsview res on a solid ground, , at least rm2.2mil.

Wah…I really wish my landed worth RM2 million! No lah…if now worth RM1 million I happy like toad liao. My landed development no swimming pool. But developer got give bath tub for master bedroom lah. LOL! Actually one other reason we went for condo was for the facilities we can use. 10 min car ride can go and enjoy facilities esp the gym and pool. So we are looking forward to that also.:biggrin:
 

potter

Alfrescian
Loyal
Frodo has a landed house. i think that is why he does not need to worry too much. near permas gng landed don't come cheap. there are only a few gng communities. local do not go for senibong as it is on a reclaimed land.
nowadays the developers sell semi d in gng for rm1.6 mil near permas. no facilities inside. plus reno around rm1.7 to 1.8 mil.
if got swimming pool like straitsview res on a solid ground, , at least rm2.2mil.

Is it the ppl dun have enough money to buy senibong, not bcos of the reclaimed land. Normally hao lian with no $ ppl will tell u all the bull shit reason.:p

Btw, i cant afford it, but got locals buyers as well.
 
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Frodo

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Loyal
To play safe, 1 is enough for him.

To Frodo, buy already dun think too much. U r not a sitting duck i believed.

To be honest, I was tempted but unsure. I mean, no cash outlay, start paying only in 2018, got leaseback option, sounds like a good deal for our circumstances but I wasn't really sure if we should proceed. But the wife was saying she liked it and said to just go for it. Uhh…..happy wife happy life, right?:p Ya…good advice too Potter bro…buy already don't think too much…just move on with life…tomorrow will be better!
 

potter

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Loyal
To be honest, I was tempted but unsure. I mean, no cash outlay, start paying only in 2018, got leaseback option, sounds like a good deal for our circumstances but I wasn't really sure if we should proceed. But the wife was saying she liked it and said to just go for it. Uhh…..happy wife happy life, right?:p

This is an order!!:p i know:p
We are in the same sampan..now seeing my condo unit, v shiok.:biggrin:
 
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rotikok

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Loyal
Yes, glad you see these very important points. So that's why I said there is no proper planning. They are killing investors' money, to which an UMNO official once commented that it's their problem if they want to take such risks. Wah lao eh....

Hello brother, when the whole medini and ph was started, local johorean already knew it was for foreigners. They want to buy, we just sell can liao. Ghost town or not, doesn't matter as long as it was all foreign money, most local remain safe and intact. Clever local will go for landed ppty or vacant agri land in gelang patah area which price much for harder to drop and not overpriced like those condos. Certainly condo psf price need to get back to more sensible level to attract ppl to come in....and don't lose hope. I think authority already knew the impact it would have for rts and hsr that eventually it will build regardless of the demand for it. RTS and HSR will definitely bring in the demand.

Cause I see a lot of ppl trying to bring out the argument, saying like "see, those area so little ppl, why build rts there; see klang, so many ppl already at surrounding, so need mrt" Wrong! building rts, not because of the demand of it to be build, rather the other way, rts will bring in the demand.

If those infrastructure eventually put in place, then what we trying to advise condo owners in ph/medini may end up wrong badly, demand will shoot up instantly. If this happen 20 yrs later, then early investors wasted lot of opportunity cost; if happen in 5 years, then I would advise rather keep your condo unit at this current ghost town. No one know the future, I still believe rts will pass through a line along coastal highway, ghost town medini condo owner can bet on this if they do not want to cut loss now. Is a high risk okok return deal (okok return because they already bought in at high price).
 

Tekkun

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Loyal
For the benefit everyone here, this is how I see it. Check it out with your lawyers, read the S&P, go to REDHA website for details, etc. We are talking about normal projects that had begun and not those abandoned ones.
Long winded, I hope it benefit everyone here. I am not a lawyer, just from my experience.

There is NO clause in Sales And Purchase Agreement that Purchaser can terminate the S & P. Once signed, it is binding already.
It cannot be revoked.


Purchaser can’t even sell it as the property is not handed over. Technically it is not even registered in his name. No transfer allowed as long as caveats are in place. The master title belong to the developer. Registration only happen when the entire project is completed and names submitted for strata title processing.

The only way to get out is to allow the Purchase to default and determine the Agreement which allow the terms and conditions to take its course.

-----------------------------------------------

This is part of a standard Sales and Purchase Agreement governed by Ministry of Housing, Malaysia.

Default by Purchaser and determination of Agreement (We assume the property is RM1,000,000)

10. (1) If the Purchaser:- (a) subject to subclause (3) below fails to pay any instalments 7 payable under subclause 4(1) in accordance with Third Schedule hereto or any part thereof and any interest payable under Clause 9 for any period in excess of twenty-eight (28) days after its due date;

or (b) commits any breach of or fails to perform or observe any material terms or conditions or covenants contained in this Agreement;

or (c) before payment in full of the purchase price of the said Parcel, commits an act of bankruptcy or enters into any composition or arrangement with his creditors or, being a company, enters into liquidation whether compulsory or voluntary, the Vendor may, subject to subclause (2) hereof, annul the sale of the said Parcel and forthwith terminate this Agreement and in such an event:-

(i) the Vendor shall be entitled to deal with or otherwise dispose of the said Parcel in such manner as the Vendor shall see fit as if this Agreement had not been entered into;

Essentially this is means the Developer can fix any price they want. In a depressing market, the new value of the property would be very much lower than the original price. They would ascertain the new value first then, they will apply the penalty discount structure.
Assuming original price is RM1,000,000, new value is RM 700,000. Penalty discount structure is 20%. The new discounted value is RM560,000. Purchaser to pay differential sum of RM440,000.


(ii) the instalments previously paid by the Purchaser to the Vendor, excluding any interest paid, shall be dealt with and disposed of as follows:-

(a) firstly, all interest calculated in accordance with clause 9 hereof owing and unpaid shall be paid to the Vendor;

(b) secondly, an amount to be forfeited by the Vendor as follows:

(i) where up to fifty per centum (50%) of the purchase price has been paid, an amount equal to ten per centum (10%) of the purchase price; (Purchaser to pay RM 100,000.)

(ii) where more than fifty per centum (50%) of the purchase price has been paid, an amount equal to twenty per centum (20%) of the purchase price; (Purchaser to pay RM200,000)


(c) lastly, the residue thereof shall be refunded to the Purchaser; (It can be negative or positive)

(iii) neither party hereto shall have any further claim against the other for costs, damages, compensation or otherwise hereunder; and

-----------------------------------------

If the financing is done through banks, the banks would seize the property and attempt to recover their loans. The property do not belong to the purchaser anymore. It belong to the bank. Purchaser lose everything.

The remedial services would include forced sale of the property if it can be sold. If the project cannot be sold cos it is uncompleted, the borrower would be liable personally. If it can be sold, it would be done through auction and bank will recover the differential sum between auction price and loan drawn down from the borrower. Bankruptcy proceedings would commence.

The minute you default, the bank would seize the property first, then only they demand payments from you. Final auction price is anybody guess. Normally the price would be about 40% lower than the original price. And the borrower would have to pay the difference to the bank yet do not own anything.

Important note: The loan is between the purchaser and bank. It has nothing to do with the developer or the property. The property is just the collateral and the means to facilitate the loan.

And we have not started on the legal fees, etc etc. The developer / banks can even claim DIBS fees or discounts from the purchaser.

For sake of discussion, assuming that the purchaser has lots of cash to burn and willing to pay the estimated 50% loss which is would probably not happen but let’s say it did happen. What are the implications of getting a new buyer. Everything can be sold. It is just the price and risks

1. There’s no title deed. Sale can be made via a Deed of Assignment backed by the original S&P of the first buyer and the developer and Power of Attorney given by the first purchaser. This is what we call side line private arrangements. You would need the approval of the developer to do this. Usually developers do not like this arrangements as S&P are stamped and documented. There’s no room for reassignment.

2. And assuming that a new buyer came along and willing to take over the loan repayments. Old buyer signed off all his rights to this new buyer. What happen if new buyer did not pay the loans. Result is original purchaser is liable cos the loan is registered in his name. More so, his name would appear in the national registry of total loan exposure resulting him not able to apply for other loans. Worse, he would be sued by the bank as the loan as he is the original borrower. He is as good as the guarantor for the loan.

Whether to bite the bullet or not, it is entirely up to the purchaser.
Obviously some will say I am wrong, maybe I am, maybe I am not. Go check with the lawyers. :smile:
 
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Frodo

Alfrescian
Loyal
For the benefit everyone here, this is how I see it. Check it out with your lawyers, read the S&P, go to REDHA website for details, etc.
Long winded, I hope it benefit everyone here. I am not a lawyer, just from my experience.

There is NO clause in Sales And Purchase Agreement that Purchaser can terminate the S & P. Once signed, it is binding already.
It cannot be revoked.


Purchaser can’t even sell it as the property is not handed over. Technically it is not even registered in his name. No transfer allowed as long as caveats are in place. The master title belong to the developer. Registration only happen when the entire project is completed and names submitted for strata title processing.

The only way to get out is to allow the Purchase to default and determine the Agreement which allow the terms and conditions to take its course.

-----------------------------------------------

This is part of a standard Sales and Purchase Agreement governed by Ministry of Housing, Malaysia.

Default by Purchaser and determination of Agreement (We assume the property is RM1,000,000)

10. (1) If the Purchaser:- (a) subject to subclause (3) below fails to pay any instalments 7 payable under subclause 4(1) in accordance with Third Schedule hereto or any part thereof and any interest payable under Clause 9 for any period in excess of twenty-eight (28) days after its due date;

or (b) commits any breach of or fails to perform or observe any material terms or conditions or covenants contained in this Agreement;

or (c) before payment in full of the purchase price of the said Parcel, commits an act of bankruptcy or enters into any composition or arrangement with his creditors or, being a company, enters into liquidation whether compulsory or voluntary, the Vendor may, subject to subclause (2) hereof, annul the sale of the said Parcel and forthwith terminate this Agreement and in such an event:-

(i) the Vendor shall be entitled to deal with or otherwise dispose of the said Parcel in such manner as the Vendor shall see fit as if this Agreement had not been entered into;

Essentially this is means the Developer can fix any price they want. In a depressing market, the new value of the property would be very much lower than the original price. They would ascertain the new value first then, they will apply the penalty discount structure.
Assuming original price is RM1,000,000, new value is RM 700,000. Penalty discount structure is 20%. The new discounted value is RM560,000. Purchaser to pay differential sum of RM440,000.


(ii) the instalments previously paid by the Purchaser to the Vendor, excluding any interest paid, shall be dealt with and disposed of as follows:-

(a) firstly, all interest calculated in accordance with clause 9 hereof owing and unpaid shall be paid to the Vendor;

(b) secondly, an amount to be forfeited by the Vendor as follows:

(i) where up to fifty per centum (50%) of the purchase price has been paid, an amount equal to ten per centum (10%) of the purchase price; (Purchaser to pay RM 100,000.)

(ii) where more than fifty per centum (50%) of the purchase price has been paid, an amount equal to twenty per centum (20%) of the purchase price; (Purchaser to pay RM200,000)


(c) lastly, the residue thereof shall be refunded to the Purchaser; (It can be negative or positive)

(iii) neither party hereto shall have any further claim against the other for costs, damages, compensation or otherwise hereunder; and

-----------------------------------------

If the financing is done through banks, the banks would seize the property and attempt to recover their loans. The property do not belong to the purchaser anymore. It belong to the bank. Purchaser lose everything.

The remedial services would include forced sale of the property if it can be sold. If the project cannot be sold cos it is uncompleted, the borrower would be liable personally. If it can be sold, it would be done through auction and bank will recover the differential sum between auction price and loan drawn down from the borrower. Bankruptcy proceedings would commence.

The minute you default, the bank would seize the property first, then only they demand payments from you. Final auction price is anybody guess. Normally the price would be about 40% lower than the original price. And the borrower would have to pay the difference to the bank yet do not own anything.

Important note: The loan is between the purchaser and bank. It has nothing to do with the developer or the property. The property is just the collateral and the means to facilitate the loan.

And we have not started on the legal fees, etc etc. The developer / banks can even claim DIBS fees or discounts from the purchaser.

For sake of discussion, assuming that the purchaser has lots of cash to burn and willing to pay the estimated 50% loss which is would probably not happen but let’s say it did happen. What are the implications of getting a new buyer. Everything can be sold. It is just the price and risks

1. There’s no title deed. Sale can be made via a Deed of Assignment backed by the original S&P of the first buyer and the developer and Power of Attorney given by the first purchaser. This is what we call side line private arrangements. You would need the approval of the developer to do this. Usually developers do not like this arrangements as S&P are stamped and documented. There’s no room for reassignment.

2. And assuming that a new buyer came along and willing to take over the loan repayments. Old buyer signed off all his rights to this new buyer. What happen if new buyer did not pay the loans. Result is original purchaser is liable cos the loan is registered in his name. More so, his name would appear in the national registry of total loan exposure resulting him not able to apply for other loans. Worse, he would be sued by the bank as the loan as he is the original borrower. He is as good as the guarantor for the loan.

Whether to bite the bullet or not, it is entirely up to the purchaser.
Obviously some will say I am wrong, maybe I am, maybe I am not. Go check with the lawyers. :smile:

Thanks for the informative write up.

Perhaps in some cases it is better to bleed slowly and attempt to stemmed off bleeding rather than to chop off body parts? Sometimes bleeding can still be stopped and situation can be salvaged...but body parts chopped off means forever gone liao...
 

Frodo

Alfrescian
Loyal
These days minimum must have $4 million assets to be comfortable, at a safe and prudent projection of 3% returns that is only about $120k PA, to live comfortably means having to move to Johor. In Singapore, means still much a peasant life, no restaurant everyday and maybe Japanese car only.

Eh....should not insult peasant in Singapore....:p
 
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