Property News

Tekkun · Aug 15, 2016

hasslehoff said:
The question posed was whether investors had lost money from PH area.

The Imperia unit I'm referring to is RM1.8million auction reserve price. (Failed to sell a few times). Advertised price/Market price for similar 2500sqft unit is RM2.8 million. (Does this imply that someone is going to lose money? You decide for yourself)

Everytime there's a failed auction, the reserved price would be reduced by 10%.
It belong to a foreigner (believed to be Japanese) and the loan was defaulted since day one. The unit has no views and facing the office block. Imperia launching price is about 800 psf in 2011.

Do any investor lose money in PH? Of course there will be. There will be investors who lose money whether it is in Singapore, London, Sydney or in KL. If you invest for the purpose to make money, then good luck. No difference to gambling, just maybe calculated gambling. If I may, most buyers especially those of Puteri Cove, Imperia and Encorp buy for lifestyle living.

Just for info: July prices for sale RM 1026 psf Source: Propwall

sgcount · Aug 15, 2016

Tekkun said:
Everytime there's a failed auction, the reserved price would be reduced by 10%.
It belong to a foreigner (believed to be Japanese) and the loan was defaulted since day one. The unit has no views and facing the office block. Imperia launching price is about 800 psf in 2011.

Do any investor lose money in PH? Of course there will be. There will be investors who lose money whether it is in Singapore, London, Sydney or in KL. If you invest for the purpose to make money, then good luck. No difference to gambling, just maybe calculated gambling. If I may, most buyers especially those of Puteri Cove, Imperia and Encorp buy for lifestyle living.

Just for info: July prices for sale RM 1026 psf Source: Propwall

If price has already gone up to RM1026 psf, how come people still don't want?

And why can't invest to make money?

sgcount · Aug 15, 2016

snowbird said:
So, if you had bought like some people here @RM750/sq ft, they would need to sell above RM900/sq ft just to break even, possible???

Actually, why not? Nothing is impossible, even if it sounds ridiculous now. Many HDB flats already sold for close to or more than S$1million already. 10 years ago, if you had told people that, they would have said CRAZY!

In Medini, many condos already selling for close to RM1,000 psf. Puteri Harbour now all more than RM1,000 psf. Even Country Garden Danga Bay and Forest City all close to or over RM1,000 psf.

snowbird · Aug 15, 2016

sgcount said:
Actually, why not? Nothing is impossible, even if it sounds ridiculous now. Many HDB flats already sold for close to or more than S$1million already. 10 years ago, if you had told people that, they would have said CRAZY!

In Medini, many condos already selling for close to RM1,000 psf. Puteri Harbour now all more than RM1,000 psf. Even Country Garden Danga Bay and Forest City all close to or over RM1,000 psf.

Good luck to you and your optimism then.
But please do remember, buying at 7 and selling at 10 may still not be profitable after you factor in the transaction cost, holding cost, taxation, currency difference, opportunity cost.........so, the longer you wait to sell, a higher buying/selling price difference will be required to see profit.

tstar · Aug 15, 2016

https://sg.yahoo.com/finance/news/singaporeans-worried-over-jobs-pay-160001056.html

Many people are worried about jobs and pay.

Actually all my friends who are engineers are worried.

one of few exceptions that are not affected by the economic situation are those working in hospitals, medical staff. They are always optimistic.

Frodo · Aug 15, 2016

tstar said:
https://sg.yahoo.com/finance/news/singaporeans-worried-over-jobs-pay-160001056.html

Many people are worried about jobs and pay.

Actually all my friends who are engineers are worried.

one of few exceptions that are not affected by the economic situation are those working in hospitals, medical staff. They are always optimistic.

Because there are always people getting sick or in need of medical attention. All the more when stress levels are up during economy downturn.

Tekkun · Aug 15, 2016

Frodo said:
Because there are always people getting sick or in need of medical attention. All the more when stress levels are up during economy downturn.

Anti recession businesses to get in.
Baby, medical and undertaker. Also Singapore Pools. :smile:

sgcount · Aug 15, 2016

snowbird said:
Good luck to you and your optimism then.
But please do remember, buying at 7 and selling at 10 may still not be profitable after you factor in the transaction cost, holding cost, taxation, currency difference, opportunity cost.........so, the longer you wait to sell, a higher buying/selling price difference will be required to see profit.

That's why those who bought at RM750psf must wait to sell at RM900psf what. It would have taken into account all those extra charges.

Property prices make no sense. My 69 year old colleague in SG was shocked when he read recently HDB 5-room flats were going for S$1million. And there are people who still buy! During his younger days, such flats cost only S$35,000. He was smart to buy a semi-D house for S$600k decades ago. Today, it is worth more than S$5million. And his salary is not even in the upper class category.

If I were smart enough, I would have bought a condo 10 years ago in SG to invest. When city-fringe condos were sold at S$700-800psf, people were saying "Siao, so expensive. Good luck if you buy. Last time only S$500+psf." Then it rose to S$1200psf within a few short years. More people said "Siao! Cannot buy liao. If buy sure lose money." Today such condos are going for S$1,600psf. Who is the siao one? :smile:

So we don't know what will happen to those Iskandar condos now sold at RM750 to RM1000+ psf. Many have been saying Siao, good luck, goodbye to your money. But let's see next time.

Whatever reason buyers were queuing up to buy those Iskandar condos like hot cakes back in 2013, we just need to create that situation again to see sales pick up again. Maybe when there is more development and the economy in SG and Johor gets better?

Frodo · Aug 15, 2016

sgcount said:
That's why those who bought at RM750psf must wait to sell at RM900psf what. It would have taken into account all those extra charges.

Property prices make no sense. My 69 year old colleague in SG was shocked when he read recently HDB 5-room flats were going for S$1million. And there are people who still buy! During his younger days, such flats cost only S$35,000. He was smart to buy a semi-D house for S$600k decades ago. Today, it is worth more than S$5million. And his salary is not even in the upper class category.

If I were smart enough, I would have bought a condo 10 years ago in SG to invest. When city-fringe condos were sold at S$700-800psf, people were saying "Siao, so expensive. Good luck if you buy. Last time only S$500+psf." Then it rose to S$1200psf within a few short years. More people said "Siao! Cannot buy liao. If buy sure lose money." Today such condos are going for S$1,600psf. Who is the siao one?

So we don't know what will happen to those Iskandar condos now sold at RM750 to RM1000+ psf. Many have been saying Siao, good luck, goodbye to your money. But let's see next time.

Whatever reason buyers were queuing up to buy those Iskandar condos like hot cakes back in 2013, we just need to create that situation again to see sales pick up again. Maybe when there is more development and the economy in SG and Johor gets better?

Good points! The pathetically hopeful person in me is of the view that JB is on the right track to reach its vision. More Malaysians are coming to SG to work and this may create demand for condos in the longer term.

sgtsk · Aug 15, 2016

hasslehoff said:
Isn't there a Imperia unit that has been put on auction a few times that has failed to sell? You can see it in Trovit.

I would suspect that demand may still exist across different segments, but it is definitely low, and is definitely in the buyers favor. Where demand exists for Resale units, there is most likely a mismatch between buyer and sellers expectations.

If the price point is not realistic, seller loses sale and buyer moves on. After all buying new from developer is arguably easier and comes with warranty if there is no rush. One may argue that the buyer can not get that exact unit in that location. Well then, it'll just be a waiting game to see who blinks first.

Even if there is an auction that shows someone could be loosing money in PH but how does this reconcile with snowbird's view which seems to suggest no one makes money investing in Iskandar condo.

Investor888 · Aug 16, 2016

Strange, since 2-3 years ago I have been read negative news about Iskandar and how the prices will collapse.

I have been offering RM 300psf for PH sea view units because I have any affinity for water. So much the response is not only pathetic. Its zero.

mpan12 · Aug 16, 2016

Investor888 said:
Strange, since 2-3 years ago I have been read negative news about Iskandar and how the prices will collapse.

I have been offering RM 300psf for PH sea view units because I have any affinity for water. So much the response is not only pathetic. Its zero.

Who will sell to you for a ridiculous RM300psf only? What's the market price now? RM1300psf? Try asking for a more reasonable RM1000psf. You might get more responses from those really desperate to sell.

I think now is not the time where the general buyers are desperate yet. You need to wait for most buyers to start servicing their bank loans with few tenants and no buyers in the secondary market. Also, wait for more condos to complete construction and there is stiff competition for the already depressed rental market. That's where the pain will be felt.

When the reality strikes on some buyers that they are locking up their cash on their unused properties, some may default the loan or call it quits. Foreigners who are not present in their condos may also refuse to pay the maintenance fees. The buildings may then start to show signs of ageing. That's when you will see prices go down.

mpan12 · Aug 16, 2016

tstar said:
https://sg.yahoo.com/finance/news/singaporeans-worried-over-jobs-pay-160001056.html

Many people are worried about jobs and pay.

Actually all my friends who are engineers are worried.

one of few exceptions that are not affected by the economic situation are those working in hospitals, medical staff. They are always optimistic.

Take all these reports with a pinch of salt.

Last time they said Singapore's economy will be slow. But recent reports have seen higher growth in the last quarter for many sectors compared to previous quarters. The economists and politicians are basically greedy people. Even at 1-2% growth in SG, they say we are doing badly. They want 3% and above.

We are still seeing strong buying power among Singaporeans. Go to the heartland shopping centres. You will see many of them still shopping. Go to Travel fairs, people are snapping up tour packages like buying vegetables.

xebay11 · Aug 16, 2016

sgcount said:
That's why those who bought at RM750psf must wait to sell at RM900psf what. It would have taken into account all those extra charges.

Property prices make no sense. My 69 year old colleague in SG was shocked when he read recently HDB 5-room flats were going for S$1million. And there are people who still buy! During his younger days, such flats cost only S$35,000. He was smart to buy a semi-D house for S$600k decades ago. Today, it is worth more than S$5million. And his salary is not even in the upper class category.

If I were smart enough, I would have bought a condo 10 years ago in SG to invest. When city-fringe condos were sold at S$700-800psf, people were saying "Siao, so expensive. Good luck if you buy. Last time only S$500+psf." Then it rose to S$1200psf within a few short years. More people said "Siao! Cannot buy liao. If buy sure lose money." Today such condos are going for S$1,600psf. Who is the siao one?

So we don't know what will happen to those Iskandar condos now sold at RM750 to RM1000+ psf. Many have been saying Siao, good luck, goodbye to your money. But let's see next time.

Whatever reason buyers were queuing up to buy those Iskandar condos like hot cakes back in 2013, we just need to create that situation again to see sales pick up again. Maybe when there is more development and the economy in SG and Johor gets better?

Do not take parallels and apply to Johor, I guess you are a optimist because you had already sunk money in, but I already learned in my young age with my first overseas investment in Perth that investing in a big country is not the same as in Singapore, the only thing that applies is location, location, location.

Even and when Johor property prices do catch up, it would only apply to New developments, all developments would be forgotten and run down and New CBD would be established. So you can wait but the benefits may not be in your life time.

Tekkun · Aug 16, 2016

xebay11 said:
Do not take parallels and apply to Johor, I guess you are a optimist because you had already sunk money in, but I already learned in my young age with my first overseas investment in Perth that investing in a big country is not the same as in Singapore, the only thing that applies is location, location, location.

Even and when Johor property prices do catch up, it would only apply to New developments, all developments would be forgotten and run down and New CBD would be established. So you can wait but the benefits may not be in your life time.

Agree with Xebay on this. If ever there is a revival, the focus would be on new developments as they would be more competitively priced with innovative concepts. The other demand area would be those in hotspots where land and location is limited as these would be areas that had matured. Those not so high in demand location ones presently would be at the back stage and these are the ones that will face pressure.

However all is not lost as it is expected cost of construction of the new developments in future would rise in tandem with cost of materials and land. How much they can offset the difference would depend on the new launching price and the old prices plus all other sunken cost you had bought.
Then if there is ever a revival. There will be, question is when.

xebay11 · Aug 16, 2016

Double post deleted

Frodo · Aug 16, 2016

Tekkun said:
Agree with Xebay on this. If ever there is a revival, the focus would be on new developments as they would be more competitively priced with innovative concepts. The other demand area would be those in hotspots where land and location is limited as these would be areas that had matured. Those not so high in demand location ones presently would be at the back stage and these are the ones that will face pressure.

However all is not lost as it is expected cost of construction of the new developments in future would rise in tandem with cost of materials and land. How much they can offset the difference would depend on the new launching price and the old prices plus all other sunken cost you had bought.
Then if there is ever a revival. There will be, question is when.

I thought the JB govt has halted or cut back on new condo launches in view of current oversupply? So most of the new developments would be those that would complete in 2018 or thereabout? In my view, coming 2018 will be quite interesting as those sold in 2013-2014 would have completed their construction. Buyers (investors? ;p) may have a "buffet spread" of completed condos to choose from.

snowbird · Aug 16, 2016

Frodo said:
I thought the JB govt has halted or cut back on new condo launches in view of current oversupply? So most of the new developments would be those that would complete in 2018 or thereabout? In my view, coming 2018 will be quite interesting as those sold in 2013-2014 would have completed their construction. Buyers (investors? ;p) may have a "buffet spread" of completed condos to choose from.

What cut back, you have forgotten something very significant here.
The Chinese developers had already sunk in about RM4,000,000,000 for a stake in JB.
What you see now is only just the beginning.
Land reclamation is still in progress in JB Central, Forest City and other areas.
While some areas are already building in progress, that RM4,000,000,000 spent is not going to be tied up for nothing, these developers are listed companies and they need to show returns to the share holders.
The Chinese developers will continue with their building spree, perhaps at a different pace.
So, another hopeful wish of yours may be dashed.

Tekkun · Aug 17, 2016

Frodo said:
I thought the JB govt has halted or cut back on new condo launches in view of current oversupply? So most of the new developments would be those that would complete in 2018 or thereabout? In my view, coming 2018 will be quite interesting as those sold in 2013-2014 would have completed their construction. Buyers (investors? ;p) may have a "buffet spread" of completed condos to choose from.

What does all these mean? Simply it is designed to compete with the region on its own right.
It will not take over Singapore but to accept some of the investments which is Singapore do not want is good enough. Afterall it is up to the business owners to locate where they want.
I hope they continue to build and line the coast with super condos. Ghost cities? Who cares. Just like water, let the market find its own level. Iskandar is planned for long term. The developers are not worried about short term. These multi prong developments had many people sitting up and concerned. Already movements in port and oil&gas business are happening. Whatever bought by foreigners in Iskandar is actually money flowed into MY. The saying goes..beggars cannot choose. It is how to be a better beggar.

Land reclaimation for waterfront homes all the way. Line the coasts with nice condos for people to see.
Tanjung Pelepas Port, Desaru Resort
Petronas Project
Educity, ThemeParks
Cheaper medical centers.

Frodo · Aug 17, 2016

snowbird said:
What cut back, you have forgotten something very significant here.
The Chinese developers had already sunk in about RM4,000,000,000 for a stake in JB.
What you see now is only just the beginning.
Land reclamation is still in progress in JB Central, Forest City and other areas.
While some areas are already building in progress, that RM4,000,000,000 spent is not going to be tied up for nothing, these developers are listed companies and they need to show returns to the share holders.
The Chinese developers will continue with their building spree, perhaps at a different pace.
So, another hopeful wish of yours may be dashed.

http://www.stproperty.sg/articles-p...news/iskandar-launches-hit-by-delays/a/181960

Things that already been approved and in the pipeline would of course continue. But developers would probably adopt a more cautious approach, which is probably why for mega projects they do it phase by phase over a long period of time. Anyway, I don't see why I should be disappointed if this hopeful wish is dashed. If the developers continue their building spree with "business as usual" mentality, prices will be depressed, BTO buyers will be happy, JB skyline continue to change and be nicer. Yep, peasants like me need to be hopeful, even if it is in the most pathetic way. :biggrin:

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