Property News

Frodo · Jan 28, 2016

kslresidence said:
from asset owning point of view, the path of luxury (upgrading /downgrading) goes Public Housing Scheme (HDB) -> Landed / Condo.

However I believe that is just asset, living in Malaysia for the past 1 year (coming) I realised, that is just the asset portion which sometimes is not really that important. Living Space is crucial if you have a big family. There is really no point "upgrading" from a 5 room HDB to a studio apartment if you have more than 3 pax. At the same time, moving into Johor, I do get the upgrade and downgrade feel at the same time. Weekdays when i need to take bus into Singapore to work I feel downgrading as I never have to wake up at 4am in Singapore just to ensure I reach workplace on time. However, during weekend, then it is a totally different story. When I can fine dine/high tea with my wife, got chance to go orphanage to do volunteer work, I feel my lifestyle has been upgraded

So as you can see, lifestyle is very important especially your mindset.

A matter of give and take, but overall I believe we both feel it is an upgrade. Now that I have tasted life in JB, I think even if I have money to buy a condo in Singapore I would also feel it is not worth it as I can have more for less in JB.

Frodo · Jan 28, 2016

mpan12 said:
This is also one of the reasons to answer your question why a JB condo costs less than S$300k while a similar sized one in SG may cost S$1.3 million.

I beg to differ, the level of crime is factored into the developer's pricing of the project????

Frodo · Jan 28, 2016

mpan12 said:
It depends on one's financial/social situation, lifestyle and psychology.

For a working class adult like me with close-knitted family and lifestyle firmly grounded here, I generally consider it a downgrade to move from SG to JB. Getting a larger property cheap in JB cannot be the only reason to rejoice or an attractive push factor.

Moving to JB certainly involves making drastic changes to one's lifestyle compared to that in SG. Waking up at unearthly hours in the morning, being stuck in traffic for more than an hour every day, being fatigued and spending less time with family as a result... these are huge downgrades already. It's also not easy if your spouse has to work in SG and you have kids already doing well in the good schools in SG. Why move to JB?

Also, I feel the common complaint of SG homes being "pigeon holes" is largely exaggerated. We are far from the situation in other larger 1st world cities. If you didn't get into the property market earlier, why should you blame the government or country? Yes, properties in SG are still getting expensive but it should be manageable if you plan well. What you get is the value. I can't say the same for JB properties.

Of course, if you're like Frodo, who unfortunately, doesn't have the financial means to afford a larger home in SG and yet want to have more space, then maybe moving to JB is a consideration provided you can sacrifice other conditions and make changes to your lifestyle.

At the end of it all, I feel it's up to one's psychology. How cheap is cheap, and how big is big?

When SG condos were selling at about S$800k several years ago, people generally complained: "Crazy! Earlier buyers could get it for only S$500k. Why should I pay S$300k more? SG properties are too expensive." Within 5 years, the same condo is selling for S$1.3 million, and people still say "Crazy! I can't afford it and even if I could, I won't pay at this kind of price." If the same condo goes up in price next time to say, S$1.8 million, what do you think people will say again? Yup, Crazy price!

Then why didn't you buy it when it was at S$500k, S$800k or S$1.4 million?

Is a 1,500 sq ft condo in JB considered big compared to a 900 sq ft condo in SG? To some, it's a resounding yes. But to others, 1,500 sq ft is nothing. There are houses 2,500-3,000 sq ft in other 1st world countries that go for the same price. To these owners, 1,500 sq ft is a pathetic size. It all boils down to one's expectations and psychology.

If you're retired or semi-retired, with grown up kids, moving to JB could be a different story. You have all the time in the world to drive in and out at non-peak hours, do what you want and lifestyle changes is not so much a problem compared to working adults with school-going kids.

Much said, there is no doubt you get much better value living in Singapore which is almost impossible to quantify -- Safety (something that can never be taken for granted!), high standards of living, a strong non-corrupted government, good business system, strong currency and property value, convenience of an excellent public transport system and may other plus points. The opposite is generally true of JB.

So you can't cry out why should I pay $1 million condo in SG when one in JB costs less than S$300k. You can't compare gold with copper.

It's really about expectations, knowing what you want and deciding if the kind of lifestyle you have fits moving to JB.

To reap the full benefits and pleasures of living in JB one cannot be half hearted about it or it would end up being miserable for the whole family. A close knitted family that is attached to life and comfort in Singapore should not even consider moving out of Singapore.

But you can be close knitted and move over if you can make adjustments to spend more time in JB. For example, my girls used to take public transport from JB to Singapore for their dance classes because they liked their teachers. But we decided to have them join JB dance classes and they are now much happier.

It is a known fact that HDB in Singapore are expensive, but the maths and logic that goes into saying they are affordable is to my mind just warped. It is moot to ask why someone did not enter into the property market earlier when the timing is mostly out of our control. If just graduated in 2015 what for talk about missing the boat in the early 1990's?

Comparing condo size between JB and Singapore, there is no need to talk about bigger condos in other countries, simply because that is irrelevant.

As for comparing gold with copper, I did compare and my conclusion is that life in JB, for me and my family at least for now, is better than life in Singapore.

Frodo · Jan 28, 2016

kslresidence said:
I could not have said better!

Like when I share my experience of moving into Johor and the type of lifestyle I enjoyed over weekend, some of my friends are filled with envy and they are contemptating to shift their family in as well. However I will always to tell them the downside of it. Especially the waking up at wee hour and face with a lot of queue cutters at the bus stop as many does not seem to know the meaning of queuing up for their bus safety. I do see the nicer side of Johorean but at the same time, I have seen the uglier side as well.

Frankly speaking, if given a choice again, I will still move into Johor because I really do not mind waking up early to work, I do wake up at 4am in Singapore to go jogging before work as well. The advantages of having quality time with my wife and having a Rottweiler as my pet has been my dream, hence I am really enjoying my lifestyle now. However my Pull Factors might not be the same pull factors for others. Perhaps living in Malaysia is really something completely impossible for some until they are faced with the same situation like bro Frodo. But for me, I definitely make the choice without much of Push Factors. I just like adventurous living experience maybe...

We now have more SG friends coming to visit us in JB than before when we were in Singapore. It is always an eye opener for them and some of them are even tempted to move over, though things like kids and education hold back their enthusiasm.

For us it was really both push and pull factors though the pull factor was far greater. For me was pull factor for wife it was push factor...but either way it was in the same direction!

snowbird · Jan 30, 2016

kslresidence said:
from asset owning point of view, the path of luxury (upgrading /downgrading) goes Public Housing Scheme (HDB) -> Landed / Condo.

However I believe that is just asset, living in Malaysia for the past 1 year (coming) I realised, that is just the asset portion which sometimes is not really that important. Living Space is crucial if you have a big family. There is really no point "upgrading" from a 5 room HDB to a studio apartment if you have more than 3 pax. At the same time, moving into Johor, I do get the upgrade and downgrade feel at the same time. Weekdays when i need to take bus into Singapore to work I feel downgrading as I never have to wake up at 4am in Singapore just to ensure I reach workplace on time. However, during weekend, then it is a totally different story. When I can fine dine/high tea with my wife, got chance to go orphanage to do volunteer work, I feel my lifestyle has been upgraded

So as you can see, lifestyle is very important especially your mindset.

Totally agree.
Upgrade or downgrade is just a label people use in the materialistic world to justify your social status.
There will be some kind of trade off in everything we decide upon.
Just like what you said, getting up at 4am to go to work just to stay in a larger place - the trade off is your precious time.
You'll be spending or wasting more than 6 hours every working day on your journey to and from work while you may need only about 2 hours if staying in SG.

Whatever it is, I guess the most important is that you are happy with the arrangement and decision made.
Having a peace of mind is what we all are trying to achieve.
For me, I'll wish to retire in my mid 50s with no debts, homes and car fully paid, getting a good passive income from my investments and a substantial balance in my CPF........that will be truly great

Frodo · Jan 30, 2016

snowbird said:
Totally agree.
Upgrade or downgrade is just a label people use in the materialistic world to justify your social status.
There will be some kind of trade off in everything we decide upon.
Just like what you said, getting up at 4am to go to work just to stay in a larger place - the trade off is your precious time.
You'll be spending or wasting more than 6 hours every working day on your journey to and from work while you may need only about 2 hours if staying in SG.

Whatever it is, I guess the most important is that you are happy with the arrangement and decision made.
Having a peace of mind is what we all are trying to achieve.
For me, I'll wish to retire in my mid 50s with no debts, homes and car fully paid, getting a good passive income from my investments and a substantial balance in my CPF........that will be truly great

It's what you choose to do with that "extra" time when on road. For me I simply read my Kindle books while inching my bike through the Woodlands checkpoint.

snowbird · Jan 30, 2016

Frodo said:
It's what you choose to do with that "extra" time when on road. For me I simply read my Kindle books while inching my bike through the Woodlands checkpoint.

I do hope that you invest in some really good quality face mask to wear otherwise you'll be breathing in extremely toxic exhaust from at least 100,000 motorbikes while inching through the checkpoint.

cow138 · Jan 30, 2016

Haha.. That's pretty true..
Better to drive or take private bus if can afford

jasonjst · Jan 30, 2016

snowbird said:
I do hope that you invest in some really good quality face mask to wear otherwise you'll be breathing in extremely toxic exhaust from at least 100,000 motorbikes while inching through the checkpoint.

They are not allow to turn the engine on la

xebay11 · Jan 30, 2016

jasonjst said:
They are not allow to turn the engine on la

You think they follow?

freekazoid · Jan 31, 2016

http://www.4-traders.com/UEM-SUNRIS...lopments-to-boost-Iskandar-Malaysia-21669122/

KUALA LUMPUR: Iskandar Malaysia in Johor is growing against a backdrop of weak economies because of numerous ongoing catalytic projects like Gerbang Nusajaya, said Zerin Properties founder Previndran Singhe.

Gerbang Nusajaya - some 5km from Singapore's Tuas checkpoint - is a 1,840ha city featuring various projects such as Nusajaya Tech Park, FASTrack Iskandar and Sunway Iskandar.

It will command a gross development value (GDV) of RM42 billion over 25 years.

Previndran said progress of these projects will be big catalysts to spur the economic growth of Iskandar Malaysia that will attract both local and international investors.

FASTrack Iskandar, a 121ha integrated motorsports city, is a 70:30 joint venture (JV) between FASTrack Autosports (Iskandar) Pte Ltd, which is controlled by Singapore billionaire Peter Lim and the Johor royalty and UEM Sunrise Bhd.

The motorsports city will feature world-class racing, driving, biking and karting circuits designed by renowned track designer, Herman Tilke, and complemented by commercial, retail and lifestyle ammenities.

The 210ha Nusajaya Tech Park is a 60:40 JV project between Singapore's Ascendas and UEM Sunrise.

Sunway Iskandar, meanwhile, is a 720ha world-class integrated township development - a tie-up between Khazanah Nasional Bhd, Iskandar Investment Bhd and Sunway Group. It is expected to have more than 77 million sq ft of gross floor area with an estimated GDV of RM30 billion.

Previndran said the region will continue to prosper backed by population growth, connectivity and job opportunities.

Major infrastructure projects, such as the proposed high-speed rail (HSR) link and rapid transit system (RTS), will greatly improve the connectivity between Iskandar Malaysia and Singapore. The HSR and RTS will be a major game-changer for Iskandar Malaysia and create multiplier effects.

"There will be an increase in investments as more investors will be attracted to invest in the region due to the ease of connectivity to Singapore. Increased investments, especially by multi-national companies, will lead to creation of jobs and attract more people to live and work in Iskandar Malaysia," he told Business Times.

Iskandar Malaysia - three times the size of Singapore - is a massive plan to develop a world-class metropolis by building upon the region's strategic location, population growth and infrastructure.

The region is targeting investments totalling RM383 billion over 20 years. Since its launch in 2006 until November last year, it recorded RM187.96 billion in total cumulative committed investments. Of the total, 50 per cent or RM93.39 billion represented investments that have been realised as projects on the ground.

(c) 2016 ProQuest Information and Learning Company; All Rights Reserved., source Newspapers

Investor888 · Feb 1, 2016

jasonjst said:
They are not allow to turn the engine on la

I personally witness myself a Singaporean ICA malay chap walking from one bike to another at Woodlands checking point, shouting out loud to each and every bike to TURN OFF YOUR ENGINE! before moving to another bike and repeating the same in a thunderous voice.

The way he talk he will probably be ripped apart if he wasn't wearing any uniforms in Singapore

Investor888 · Feb 1, 2016

In that case we should be able to buy Geylang Freehold condos @ S$300psf

Frodo said:
I beg to differ, the level of crime is factored into the developer's pricing of the project????

cow138 · Feb 1, 2016

Good point

kslresidence · Feb 1, 2016

Investor888 said:
I personally witness myself a Singaporean ICA malay chap walking from one bike to another at Woodlands checking point, shouting out loud to each and every bike to TURN OFF YOUR ENGINE! before moving to another bike and repeating the same in a thunderous voice.

The way he talk he will probably be ripped apart if he wasn't wearing any uniforms in Singapore

I think he might have already been ripped apart... haha... because from the way I experienced the bike clearance lane. No one is switching off the engine.

mpan12 · Feb 1, 2016

Investor888 said:
In that case we should be able to buy Geylang Freehold condos @ S$300psf

In our dreams! No way.

This shows you how strong the SG property market is due to the country and government itself.

kslresidence · Feb 1, 2016

mpan12 said:
In our dreams! No way.

This shows you how strong the SG property market is due to the country and government itself.

May Mr LKY will reborn as Malaysian and lead the nation right? So perhap what I buy now will become GCB and my next generations will clap their hand and said, heng our ancestor is one with great foresight.... haha but more feasible dream as compared to S$300/psf condo in Singapore right?

Investor888 · Feb 1, 2016

Oh give me a break. Whether or not your Iskandar cheapo land house will become as expensive as Singapore GCB is irrelevant if u are staying there.

The fact is real and that fact is cheap and that the fact that you bought the cheapo house at a cheapo rate does not mean that you are cheapening yourself for sure and the fact remains to be seen in fact it cant be seen as to whether your cheapo house will become a GCB rate. The fact is that you are staying in a S$300k house which in actual fact cost you S$3million in Singapore. Accept that fact and its fate that you face the fact that you are staying in a cheapo house in Johor while your counterparts are paying 10 times the price and that is confirmed a fact.

kslresidence said:
May Mr LKY will reborn as Malaysian and lead the nation right? So perhap what I buy now will become GCB and my next generations will clap their hand and said, heng our ancestor is one with great foresight.... haha but more feasible dream as compared to S$300/psf condo in Singapore right?

snowbird · Feb 1, 2016

jasonjst said:
They are not allow to turn the engine on la

Hello, you actually think that the motorcyclists turn off their engine when coming into the checkpoint?
The bike queues are a mile long during peak hours and they have to push their bike all the way, for a mile??
Look at these pictures please.

Those poor bikers are not only breathing in toxic exhaust from 100,000 other bikes but also from another 20,000 waiting cars, all with engine running, while waiting to reach the immigration checkpoint.
That's why I suggest to Frodo to invest in good quality mask and use them, otherwise you may upgrade in lifestyle but will downgrade your health for sure.

xebay11 · Feb 2, 2016

mpan12 said:
In our dreams! No way.

This shows you how strong the SG property market is due to the country and government itself.

These people all in denial, very very hard to convince, they keep on going on and on praising themselves for buying property in Johor so that they can have good retirement, like as if they are the smartest people in Singapore, I don't see why the average sinkie who did not buy property in Johor cannot also retire in Johor by simply renting out their hdb and stay there too. No need to tie up money.

The fact that a large majority of Singaporeans still stay put and retire here speaks volumes. I am sure they know Johor offers cheap living but Singapore is still the safest and most efficiently run country, and they rather stay here.

My parents are simply one of those, I tell them street food is cheap, they say the hygiene is questionable and generally food is of a lower standard. Grocery is only slightly cheaper. Cars is not really cheap when they compare with Oz. Houses? Well you know lah. Cheap and no good.

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