Property News

OK, enough.... all of you are blardy rich! Please teach a little or guide the poorer ones here how to make money. Must be doing some business?

These days, study so much also useless. I see those in their 20s trying hard to get their post-grad or PhDs... come out earn only $3.5-4k a month and must face many unreasonable superiors. Why waste time study so much? Those less educated ones start business, buy properties, then earn millions.

xebay11 said:

There is a rm1 million restriction to contend with for foreigners, did you factor that in?

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If I am not wrong, maybe those condos near CIQ could already be close to RM1 million, if not already exceeded? Good location condos will command a premium as there is limited land in such places compared to other places where there's still lots of trees and plantations. So maybe those who invested in condos in these more desirable locations might still see some rentals or CA if they sell.

sgcount said:

OK, enough.... all of you are blardy rich! Please teach a little or guide the poorer ones here how to make money. Must be doing some business?

These days, study so much also useless. I see those in their 20s trying hard to get their post-grad or PhDs... come out earn only $3.5-4k a month and must face many unreasonable superiors. Why waste time study so much? Those less educated ones start business, buy properties, then earn millions.

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LOL! I also agree with you that the paper chase aka rat race in Singapore is far too overrated, much to the detriment of our kids. At young age most will "tua pak kia" (wear spectacles) and in a way lose their childhood pouring over the books and having extra lessons even during their vacation time. We had initially planned for a getaway with our friends during the coming September one week holidays, but have to cancel it because their kid have to attend compulsory school events. We slog in schools to be slaves to employers, such is the mentality drilled into us when young, to study hard to get a good job. But end up most try to game the system by studying smart, spot questions and hope they come out during exams, or if in university get exam "tips and leaks" from the lecturers. It seems like doing business (provided it succeed) or having a rich dad would be good ways to retire early. Too bad I don't have any of these.

Manhattan said:

Those who bought jb properties are the sandwiched class, not rich enough to buy in first tier property market like London and Singapore. But they still have some cash and want to fulfill 'dream' of owning a property besides their hdb. So naturally jb comes into mind. Within this sandwiched class, some still bite the bullet and go buy a million dollar Condo unit and will live in debt till end of their working life, those who went jb just pay it off, lay back and wait if luck is on their side. If you are the sandwich class, which option will you take? No right or wrong.

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Agree that the choice is not a right or wrong choice, but a matter of preference and what is considered best for the person at that time. And for peasant folks like me, really is only one choice if I want to own another property and rent out the HDB to help pay for the mortgage. SG is out the question, so only JB.

mpan12 said:

It's more like these sandwich class of buyers were misled by sweet-talking property agents back in 2013. Many went in to buy Johor properties thinking "Wah, so cheap!" They bought a S$300k condo at RM800-1000 psf, thinking Singapore's one cost S$1million, so Iskandar must be a good deal! What they didn't know is they are buying a foreign property which works differently. There are also several risk factors not considered in detail.

Can rent or not? Yah, yah! You can get good rental from students, expats, workers from the MNCs that will move to Iskandar. HSR and RTS are just nearby the condo development! Sure huat one! Good investment!

Turns out rental is depressed or there are no interested tenants, no critical mass, malls are sparsely filled, no resale demand, condos remain empty for months, HSR/RTS can only be heard but nowhere near completion.

Despite many reports to show the oversupply and how even Malaysian banks are so afraid now, these gung-ho buyers are still deluding themselves.

Those who got money to buy Johor properties will use cash. They won't loan from banks. For sandwich class buyers to be in debt till "end of their working life" by buying a Johor property, I think that's plain stupid and asking for trouble. Sorry for the strong word but that's my frank opinion.

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In my view, unless one is really that ignorant, most adults will know the difference between Malaysia and Singapore, or JB and Singapore for that matter. And the fact that a condo in JB will cost 1/3 that of a similar size in SG does present an attractive option for many who are priced out of the SG market. Those who can buy JB properties in cash are, in my view, in the rich category. But I doubt they would be spared the critics' arrows anyway, for if they had bought with hard cash in 2013 the critics will laugh and say they were stupid to have bought when exchange rate was 2.5 when now is 3, isn't it? But given that owning an SG condo will result in me servicing $800K in loans for the next 20 or more years compared to a JB condo at $300K, I will go with stupid, but then that's just me.

Frodo said:

LOL! I also agree with you that the paper chase aka rat race in Singapore is far too overrated, much to the detriment of our kids. At young age most will "tua pak kia" (wear spectacles) and in a way lose their childhood pouring over the books and having extra lessons even during their vacation time. We had initially planned for a getaway with our friends during the coming September one week holidays, but have to cancel it because their kid have to attend compulsory school events. We slog in schools to be slaves to employers, such is the mentality drilled into us when young, to study hard to get a good job. But end up most try to game the system by studying smart, spot questions and hope they come out during exams, or if in university get exam "tips and leaks" from the lecturers. It seems like doing business (provided it succeed) or having a rich dad would be good ways to retire early. Too bad I don't have any of these.

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Yes, actually, a good portion of those who score 'A's are not exactly smart. They spot questions, memorize for exams, get tips from lecturers before exams. Many will end up with stable jobs when they start working, but they are lost in the rat race, just taking instructions from their bosses. Their salaries become stagnant.

Ironically, their "not so smart" peers in school may not have the academic certs. But these are the street smart ones who will be brave enough to think of ways to make money. Yes, not easy. They will likely fail along the way. But they keep trying. Once they get the formula right, they start earning their $$$, buy properties, and can ensure their next generation are well taken care of. By comparison, those "A" students are still slogging in a company earning reasonable salaries but never enough to live in a big house in SG or retire early.

Kids in Singapore have little life these days. Holidays are meant to be enjoyed with families or learn things outdoors. But most go back school use computer, read books. Not sure also how successful they will be next time. The SG government might just bring in more foreign workers, pay them cheap, and our kids suffer without good pay or jobs despite all the hard work they have put in. It has happened and it will only get worse, I think.

Frodo said:

In my view, unless one is really that ignorant, most adults will know the difference between Malaysia and Singapore, or JB and Singapore for that matter. And the fact that a condo in JB will cost 1/3 that of a similar size in SG does present an attractive option for many who are priced out of the SG market. Those who can buy JB properties in cash are, in my view, in the rich category. But I doubt they would be spared the critics' arrows anyway, for if they had bought with hard cash in 2013 the critics will laugh and say they were stupid to have bought when exchange rate was 2.5 when now is 3, isn't it? But given that owning an SG condo will result in me servicing $800K in loans for the next 20 or more years compared to a JB condo at $300K, I will go with stupid, but then that's just me.

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When is your condo ready? Are you taking Malaysian bank loan? You buy to enjoy it right... not for investment?

Frodo said:

In my view, unless one is really that ignorant, most adults will know the difference between Malaysia and Singapore, or JB and Singapore for that matter. And the fact that a condo in JB will cost 1/3 that of a similar size in SG does present an attractive option for many who are priced out of the SG market. Those who can buy JB properties in cash are, in my view, in the rich category. But I doubt they would be spared the critics' arrows anyway, for if they had bought with hard cash in 2013 the critics will laugh and say they were stupid to have bought when exchange rate was 2.5 when now is 3, isn't it? But given that owning an SG condo will result in me servicing $800K in loans for the next 20 or more years compared to a JB condo at $300K, I will go with stupid, but then that's just me.

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Why must stay condo? These days the newer HDBs can give condos a run for the money. FYI, I am renting out my SG landed property and living in HDB and loving it, the pool is just across the road too.

xebay11 said:

Ha ha ha ha Singapore have many many poor people who have to work to death literally and those stuck with Johor properties probably have to work more to death instead of dreaming of nice early retirement slowly turning into a nightmare with each passing year.

I will be retiring early and having a good life and sleeping well, because I know what I am doing and doing it well

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With the current high HDB prices, and even higher condo prices in SG, it is probably true that those who buy SG properties now have to work till they die. But if they complete their MOP period, they can rent out HDB and buy-to-stay in JB. Still have to work till die, but now with two properties. Maybe still better off?

xebay11 said:

Why must stay condo? These days the newer HDBs can give condos a run for the money. FYI, I am renting out my SG landed property and living in HDB and loving it, the pool is just across the road too.

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Aiya...you different class from most of us lah.....where HDB is the only thing we "own".

sgcount said:

When is your condo ready? Are you taking Malaysian bank loan? You buy to enjoy it right... not for investment?

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Supposedly in Apr 2018, if on time. Yes, on MY bank loan. Our first thought when buying it was "this is a low entry opportunity to increase asset base, a chance that doesn't present itself all the time to us". As such, we are happy to keep it for personal use or to sell it if the price is right. Because our current HDB rental can just nice nice cover both JB properties' mortgage (when the condo one kicks in in 2018), we are slightly less stressed...cannot say no stress lah....

actually I'm quite surprised. It was only recently I realized those who own private properties actually have HDB flats too. I've nothing against the owners but I think government should ban this.

HDB flats are meant for the larger population who are commoners and earning below a certain income cap.

No wonder even HDB flats these days cost so much.

sgcount said:

actually I'm quite surprised. It was only recently I realized those who own private properties actually have HDB flats too. I've nothing against the owners but I think government should ban this.

HDB flats are meant for the larger population who are commoners and earning below a certain income cap.

No wonder even HDB flats these days cost so much.

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Please don't! Ok vest interest here. But I suppose the govt has somewhat addressed this by prohibiting those who have private properties to buy HDB. It would not be fair to require people (who over the years have maybe increased their earnings) to sell off HDBs if they want to buy a private property for investment, or do it the other way by staying in private property and rent out HDB. Since the HDBs can be rented out entirely (to meet some needs) it must be the case that Singaporeans can hold both HDB and private properties, provided they met the conditions for doing so.

sgcount said:

actually I'm quite surprised. It was only recently I realized those who own private properties actually have HDB flats too. I've nothing against the owners but I think government should ban this. HDB flats are meant for the larger population who are commoners and earning below a certain income cap.No wonder even HDB flats these days cost so much.

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That is why I say "Who say Singaporeans are poor? It is just that they are not rich enough". They can swallow you without you knowing about it. I know cos I was talking to my RM once and he said he has easily count 10 Privilege customers who stay in HDB flats. And to be a Privilege customer, you need at least S$300k in the bank. Don't play play.

Tekkun said:

That is why I say "Who say Singaporeans are poor? It is just that they are not rich enough". They can swallow you without you knowing about it. I know cos I was talking to my RM once and he said he has easily count 10 Privilege customers who stay in HDB flats. And to be a Privilege customer, you need at least S$300k in the bank. Don't play play.

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Err...... S$300k is not a lot of money these days, as compared to the PRCs......hahaha........

RedsYNWA said:

Err...... S$300k is not a lot of money these days, as compared to the PRCs......hahaha........

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Wah you say like that I go into depression mode liao....

Manhattan said:

Those who bought jb properties are the sandwiched class, not rich enough to buy in first tier property market like London and Singapore. But they still have some cash and want to fulfill 'dream' of owning a property besides their hdb. So naturally jb comes into mind. Within this sandwiched class, some still bite the bullet and go buy a million dollar Condo unit and will live in debt till end of their working life, those who went jb just pay it off, lay back and wait if luck is on their side. If you are the sandwich class, which option will you take? No right or wrong.

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Wow, you spoke directly to me. No offence but I simply cannot bring myself to pay a "hefty premium" to stay in a 700-800 sqf condo with 2-3 rooms, easily >S$1mil+, HDB? cannot buy, don't have 2 PR's. I would rather suffer inconvenience and move to JB and have tons of choice as a local. In turn, i have much more disposable income, much more breathing space, freedom to travel more, pretty much everything a typical Gen-Y looks for.

sgcount said:

actually I'm quite surprised. It was only recently I realized those who own private properties actually have HDB flats too. I've nothing against the owners but I think government should ban this.

HDB flats are meant for the larger population who are commoners and earning below a certain income cap.

No wonder even HDB flats these days cost so much.

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You can upgrade from HDB to pte properties after MOP, but not the other way round. The rules to own HDB are very strict now.

Many people are still staying in HDB and renting out their pte properties. These people are already paying quite a lot of taxes. This applies to many people staying in JB and renting out their HDB for retirement. There was a discussion a month+ ago on ICA checking on those who travel or stay in JB for long periods of time.

Frodo said:

Please don't! Ok vest interest here. But I suppose the govt has somewhat addressed this by prohibiting those who have private properties to buy HDB. It would not be fair to require people (who over the years have maybe increased their earnings) to sell off HDBs if they want to buy a private property for investment, or do it the other way by staying in private property and rent out HDB. Since the HDBs can be rented out entirely (to meet some needs) it must be the case that Singaporeans can hold both HDB and private properties, provided they met the conditions for doing so.

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You also have private property in SG?

I was referring to those who own HDB flats and yet allowed to hold private properties.

The more I think about it, the more I feel it's wrong. No wonder HDB flat prices have increased so much. Imagine if in a block of flats, there are many of such high income earners. They can refuse to sell their flats until prices are as high as possible. They have the holding power. Once this becomes the norm, the market rate for the flats follows accordingly and rises.

If one can afford to buy private properties, then there's nothing wrong to ask the owner to first sell away the HDB flat. There is no reason for him or her to keep it and rent it out to earn an income. You want to earn rental income, either buy several private properties (which is justified because you're rich anyway), or you are a commoner who owns a flat, but let out one of your rooms. Or you are staying somewhere else (like Iskandar or overseas) and rent out your whole flat.

HDB flats should be for the commoners to live in and buy affordably. Rental earnings from it is not the priority.

I still hear stories today that many young couples fail BTO flat balloting after 5 tries! Even singles over 35 are not successful in balloting to buy a pathetic 2-room flat. All fully subscribed. Something is wrong.

I'm sure the government is clearly aware of this. But they are not doing anything because it is to their advantage when flat prices increase. But woe to the poor commoners who now may have to take a lifetime of loan to buy a small 4-room flat.

Tekkun said:

That is why I say "Who say Singaporeans are poor? It is just that they are not rich enough". They can swallow you without you knowing about it. I know cos I was talking to my RM once and he said he has easily count 10 Privilege customers who stay in HDB flats. And to be a Privilege customer, you need at least S$300k in the bank. Don't play play.

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Now we know who the rich ones are.

In the past, I used to think those who live in HDB flats are commoners. Now I know there could be multi-millionares and towkays in there. They could be owning thriving businesses with million $ revenues per year, own several upmarket private properties, but yet they are living with the other commoners and competing with them when buying/selling their flats.

It just doesn't sound right....