Condo Supply: Total no. of units in the pipeline.

freedom2005sg · Oct 14, 2014

It is not wrong to invest in gold. Nor is it wrong to invest in silver.

It all depends on when did you buy the gold or silver.

If a person bought it at a high price, then of course it is not a sound investment.

If a person buys gold or silver at a low price, and has a long term investment view, then the price will go up. Gold and silver are precious commodities. Limited in supply. Any person who bought silver in the 2004 and sold it during 2011 will have made a profit of more than 6 times.
See chart below:
http://www.kitco.com/charts/popup/ag3650nyb.html

rotikok said:
What sort of investment is still actually down to your macroeconomic reading skill, diff ppl will have diff opinion, hard to underpin who is correct, only time will tell. For me, I was previously a gold bug too, but US financial system risk had been up to a point to be safe, so im flexible to change my view too. Investing is like believing in religion, only those who believe every religion including atheism, and also embrace free thinking able to do well. I was previously drove into thinking Keynesism will not work, n think im smarter than a lot of academia, believe in austrian economic as I find it is revealing some common logic that so easy to understand yet academic ignored. In the end find none of the theory is working every time. Afterall is humanbeing who make the decision, if more n more believe in something, then something will be true. This is the lesson I learned from boom and bust of gold. Not gold bug is wrong, it is just that ppl perception had changed. Nxt round if got financial crisis on dollar (or by the time yuan) or general distrust of financial system, be quick to jump into gold as gold will have another bull run, that will be seeing that not in this or next decade.

freedom2005sg · Oct 14, 2014

Overpriced.

I will not touch anything above RM800 psf.

Manhattan said:
This one power, asking 1000psf.

freedom2005sg · Oct 14, 2014

It is not wrong to invest in gold. Nor is it wrong to invest in silver.

It all depends on when did you buy the gold or silver.

If a person bought it at a high price, then of course it is not a sound investment.

If a person buys gold or silver at a low price, and has a long term investment view, then the price will go up. Gold and silver are precious commodities. Limited in supply. Any person who bought silver in the 2004 and sold it during 2011 will have made a profit of more than 6 times.
See chart below:
http://www.kitco.com/charts/popup/ag3650nyb.html

If you have bought gold in 2004 and sold it in 2011, you would have made a tidy profit. See chart below.
http://www.kitco.com/charts/popup/au3650nyb.html

I am more bullish on silver now. But it doesn't hurt to have some gold. I don't pay to store my gold and silver. Why let the bank and Certis Cisco earn money?

DCputeri said:
Like you, I was looking at gold a year ago. Fortunately did not go in. It is just a piece of metal that gives no dividend and further got to pay to store them, if have quite a lot of them. Someone shouted gold will hit US$3000 a year ago but he has disappeared. Please do sufficient research before going in.

freedom2005sg · Oct 14, 2014

Btw, the cost of extracting gold is now around USD1200.

No mining company would extract gold at this price and sell it at below cost. May as well switch business and manufacture chips like mobile phone chips such as ARM Cortex. lol.

Gold is hovering near the cost of extraction now. And silver price is cheap too.

There are many instruments of investment. It also boils down to what kind of investment you like. Some people like to invest in wine, for example.

freedom · Oct 14, 2014

AUNTY said:
Yesterday's The Sunday Times report on people retiring in Chiang Mai, Thailand. This Singaporean man, 64 years old, retire there since 2009. He said CPF give him $400/- per month, which he said he cannot survived in Singapore. He rent out his 3-room HDB in SG for $1,600/- per mth and comparing Penang, Chiang Mai and other places in the region, decided to rent a one-room terrace in Chiang Mai for 8500 baht(around S$350/-) and cost of living there is half of SG. Some important aspects the report mention for living in foreign land are - need to keep contacts with your own nationality and need to fend for yourself financially. It sounds kind of scary, in times to come, I cannot imagine the standard of living in SG...

Yes, it is indeed difficult to retire for many people, that is why retiring in a lower cost country with good exchange rate is attractive and prudent investments are important. Read in business times that Sg will appreciate slowly, hopefully that is true as it will be good for us who works here and spends in neighbouring countries.

shctaw · Oct 14, 2014

A lot of people do not understand the important of owning Precious Metal. (Platinum, Palladium, Gold and Silver)
Keep taking bout the price and do not understand it is "real money" for pass 5000 years.

Other than Precious metals; one can consider this item which I am already invested more than 10 years ago.

Unconventional investment
Diamond (especially colour diamond)
Paintings
Rolex watches
MontBlanc Pens
Whisky (eg. Johnny Walker Blue Label)

Traditional investment
Properties
Companies
Shares and stocks

Financial instrument and cash only make up a small potion of my investment and saving. Cash are generated by properties and shares dividend to increase more holding in other investment.

freedom2005sg said:
Btw, the cost of extracting gold is now around USD1200.

No mining company would extract gold at this price and sell it at below cost. May as well switch business and manufacture chips like mobile phone chips such as ARM Cortex. lol.

Gold is hovering near the cost of extraction now. And silver price is cheap too.

There are many instruments of investment. It also boils down to what kind of investment you like. Some people like to invest in wine, for example.

freedom2005sg · Oct 14, 2014

Hi

I would like to hear your opinion. Is it ok to get a 2nd condo at Nusajaya to rent out upon its TOP in 2017? Price is about RM580 psf.

Thanks.

shctaw said:
A lot of people do not understand the important of owning Precious Metal. (Platinum, Palladium, Gold and Silver)
Keep taking bout the price and do not understand it is "real money" for pass 5000 years.

Other than Precious metals; one can consider this item which I am already invested more than 10 years ago.

Unconventional investment
Diamond (especially colour diamond)
Paintings
Rolex watches
MontBlanc Pens
Whisky (eg. Johnny Walker Blue Label)

Traditional investment
Properties
Companies
Shares and stocks

Financial instrument and cash only make up a small potion of my investment and saving. Cash are generated by properties and shares dividend to increase more holding in other investment.

rotikok · Oct 14, 2014

freedom2005sg said:
It is not wrong to invest in gold. Nor is it wrong to invest in silver.

It all depends on when did you buy the gold or silver.

If a person bought it at a high price, then of course it is not a sound investment.

If a person buys gold or silver at a low price, and has a long term investment view, then the price will go up. Gold and silver are precious commodities. Limited in supply. Any person who bought silver in the 2004 and sold it during 2011 will have made a profit of more than 6 times.
See chart below:
http://www.kitco.com/charts/popup/ag3650nyb.html

I am not trying to discredit ppl who own precious metal, it is one of the asset class, i think everyone should some how own some in their portfolio. However, many ppl have very limited wealth, not rich like shctaw, then it will not be wise to own a lot of non productive asset. I remember one story talking about a buyer spent a fortune and outbid another 3 bidder for a vintage car 30 years ago, drive little, maintain it nicely. When the buyer past away, buyer's son try to sell it, thinking last time when his dad bought it, the competition was so fierce. But in the end couldn't find any buyers, those who tried to bid it last time already past away, those who know and willing to pay a premium for the car is all gone.

This is the risk for owning non-productive asset, it doesn't yield any return, the only thing to make its value is people who willing to pay the price to own it. Limited supply is not the answer to demand a premium for the thing you own, if just limited supply is enough, then why my granny's spittoon (痰盂) no one want to buy? Is a antique that she say can date back to Qing dynasty.

I think I am getting a little bit far, my main point is to demystify gold and silver able to always win inflation because it is limited. Precious metal does not always increase price in year on year basis. Timing is important here, personally I dont think it is wise to put a big chunk of your investable asset to non productive precious metal just to wait another bull run, esp in this climate, what you lost will be opportunity cost. Slightly diversify, no wrong, putting lot of money to wait bull...risky.

rotikok · Oct 14, 2014

shctaw said:
A lot of people do not understand the important of owning Precious Metal. (Platinum, Palladium, Gold and Silver)
Keep taking bout the price and do not understand it is "real money" for pass 5000 years.

Other than Precious metals; one can consider this item which I am already invested more than 10 years ago.

Unconventional investment
Diamond (especially colour diamond)
Paintings
Rolex watches
MontBlanc Pens
Whisky (eg. Johnny Walker Blue Label)

Traditional investment
Properties
Companies
Shares and stocks

Financial instrument and cash only make up a small potion of my investment and saving. Cash are generated by properties and shares dividend to increase more holding in other investment.

Actually my view had changed for the meaning for money and real money. Money is a medium of exchange; a unit of account; a store of value. However, real money is the ppl perception of 'what is money'. Under normal condition, gov backed paper is real money, ppl will not accept gold for your hawker food; hyperinflation when ppl distrust paper, gold and silver is real money. Disaster where people fighting for food, anything can eat, and use to exchange for other type of food is real money, and under that situation, if no want willing to accept gold or any precious metal, then precious metal will not be real money. The main point is, real money, since it is human being willingness to accept something for exchange, then what is real money will change from time to time. Agree?

If you think precious metal is real money, however people do not agree for the next 30-50 years, then you will be wrong. You will only be right if more and more people believing in your belief, this is how our confidence economic work, there is no straight forward answer for something. If people believe gov debt over GDP of 200% is sustainable and people are confident debt one day can be paid down, then there will be no crisis. Which is why I think saying gold and silver is money I am agreed, saying it not as money I also agree, after all is not after me to decide, is after whether which way there is more people believe in, that will be the truth.

AHGS14 · Oct 14, 2014

rotikok said:
Actually my view had changed for the meaning for money and real money. Money is a medium of exchange; a unit of account; a store of value. However, real money is the ppl perception of 'what is money'. Under normal condition, gov backed paper is real money, ppl will not accept gold for your hawker food; hyperinflation when ppl distrust paper, gold and silver is real money. Disaster where people fighting for food, anything can eat, and use to exchange for other type of food is real money, and under that situation, if no want willing to accept gold or any precious metal, then precious metal will not be real money. The main point is, real money, since it is human being willingness to accept something for exchange, then what is real money will change from time to time. Agree?

If you think precious metal is real money, however people do not agree for the next 30-50 years, then you will be wrong. You will only be right if more and more people believing in your belief, this is how our confidence economic work, there is no straight forward answer for something. If people believe gov debt over GDP of 200% is sustainable and people are confident debt one day can be paid down, then there will be no crisis. Which is why I think saying gold and silver is money I am agreed, saying it not as money I also agree, after all is not after me to decide, is after whether which way there is more people believe in, that will be the truth.

Very apt. Ala Bitcoin, not backed by any government.

AUNTY · Oct 14, 2014

schtaw/freedom2005sg, the info provided by you guys really help, I read up the website www.silverbullion.com.sg provided by schtaw and will move on to the ones provided above by freedom2005sg..most probably, I will make a trip to both the different bullion shops to take a look - never knew of their existence till now...since gold price drop, and I have a Structured Deposit maturing, I thot of using part of it to buy some gold jewellery to keep/wear (can pass to my children next time also) but now my mind change... what if the jewellery design not to my children liking, might as well I buy some coins, be they silver/gold...compare to gold shop, the price at the bullion is certainly cheaper...

AUNTY · Oct 15, 2014

Rotikok, the reason why your granny's spittoon no one want is because your granny is not some ancient famous Empress Dowager or Emperor or some hugely famous stars like Michael Jackson :biggrin:

..just joking...jokes aside, what you said make sense though - if one is financially tight, one should not put too much of $$ into non productive precious metals just to wait for a bull run..

You sounds like a very conservative person in investment. Can share what are the items you invested in? Did you buy any Malaysian property?

rotikok said:
I am not trying to discredit ppl who own precious metal, it is one of the asset class, i think everyone should some how own some in their portfolio. However, many ppl have very limited wealth, not rich like shctaw, then it will not be wise to own a lot of non productive asset. I remember one story talking about a buyer spent a fortune and outbid another 3 bidder for a vintage car 30 years ago, drive little, maintain it nicely. When the buyer past away, buyer's son try to sell it, thinking last time when his dad bought it, the competition was so fierce. But in the end couldn't find any buyers, those who tried to bid it last time already past away, those who know and willing to pay a premium for the car is all gone.

This is the risk for owning non-productive asset, it doesn't yield any return, the only thing to make its value is people who willing to pay the price to own it. Limited supply is not the answer to demand a premium for the thing you own, if just limited supply is enough, then why my granny's spittoon (痰盂) no one want to buy? Is a antique that she say can date back to Qing dynasty.

I think I am getting a little bit far, my main point is to demystify gold and silver able to always win inflation because it is limited. Precious metal does not always increase price in year on year basis. Timing is important here, personally I dont think it is wise to put a big chunk of your investable asset to non productive precious metal just to wait another bull run, esp in this climate, what you lost will be opportunity cost. Slightly diversify, no wrong, putting lot of money to wait bull...risky.

rotikok · Oct 15, 2014

freedom2005sg said:
Btw, the cost of extracting gold is now around USD1200.

No mining company would extract gold at this price and sell it at below cost. May as well switch business and manufacture chips like mobile phone chips such as ARM Cortex. lol.

Gold is hovering near the cost of extraction now. And silver price is cheap too.

There are many instruments of investment. It also boils down to what kind of investment you like. Some people like to invest in wine, for example.

I did invest in gold mining company in Australia before and I think 1200 USD is general cost of production for a lot of company. I did not research all gold mining company nor uncertain whether what I said is accurate. It is all down to each individual mining company, and if the scale built up, they can have lower than 1000 USD per ounce production cost. Like the distress St barbara listed in asx, those old mines in Aust that have medium high content at 2-3g/T cost of production is ~800 USD per ounce. During boom year, a lot of lousy mine as low as <1g/T also profitable to develop. If gold price as high as 2000K USD one day, then certainly lot of previously unmineable mine will explored, increase gold supply. Another thing that I am quite curious is that, during last time when gold price as low as few hundred dollar per ounces, how gold mining company able to survive? Or during that period production come into halt, and people used that to show gold is so precious as the production doesn't catch up, a sign of limited commodity?

rotikok · Oct 15, 2014

AUNTY said:
Rotikok, the reason why your granny's spittoon no one want is because your granny is not some ancient famous Empress Dowager or Emperor or some hugely famous stars like Michael Jackson..just joking...jokes aside, what you said make sense though - if one is financially tight, one should not put too much of $$ into non productive precious metals just to wait for a bull run..

You sounds like a very conservative person in investment. Can share what are the items you invested in? Did you buy any Malaysian property?

Haha, actually I like risk, but playing with risk need to know how to avoid risk as good as you can. I only occasionally coming to this forum, last time was like a year ago, not sure whether still can dig up my old post. Personally malaysian, have some land play in iskandar, own some ppty too here and there. Own some precious metal, like to allocate my asset from time to time, confident with my macro reading skill. Recently position more on USD, tried to reduce exposure to emerging market, lately change my style to more conservative method until 2016. Got bad feeling for 2016...cant say exactly how, just my investor instinct. Like to play small cap company stock too, ohhh...by the way, alchemia ltd listed in asx (ticker: ACL), I held some, by next month let see how it goes. Not convince ppl here to buy, just want to hao lian my stock picking skill. Now 60 cents, by end of Oct will update how it goes. Cheers.

freedom2005sg · Oct 15, 2014

I personally bought mine at buillionstar. The manager there, Vincent, appeared on TV. Not saying appearing on TV increases his credibility. But personally, the staffs there are polite and helpful. I bought Canadian Silver Maple for investment, as well as various other exotic silver coins (and slightly more expensive) as collectible items. Canadian Silver Maple and American Silver Eagle are the most popular ones. You may want to mix in Austrian Silver Philharmonic. They used to be at MBFC. But they have shifted, probably to reduce costs as the rental at MBFC should be ex. I bought china panda coins more for collectibles. Silver coins are nice. I bring them out once in a while to admire their silver purity and design. Just make sure to keep them in a vaccumn bag n avoid moisture. You may want to buy more silver than gold, since silver has a higher potential. And the good thing about silver, you can accumulate on a monthly basis. It is $25 compared to $1600 (gold). So see how cheap it is now? Of course, diversify your investments in different portfolios. Not all into silver and gold. You already have property, so put some money into silver and gold. And explore other investment options too.

AUNTY said:
schtaw/freedom2005sg, the info provided by you guys really help, I read up the website www.silverbullion.com.sg provided by schtaw and will move on to the ones provided above by freedom2005sg..most probably, I will make a trip to both the different bullion shops to take a look - never knew of their existence till now...since gold price drop, and I have a Structured Deposit maturing, I thot of using part of it to buy some gold jewellery to keep/wear (can pass to my children next time also) but now my mind change... what if the jewellery design not to my children liking, might as well I buy some coins, be they silver/gold...compare to gold shop, the price at the bullion is certainly cheaper...

freedom2005sg · Oct 15, 2014

I think when gold price was only a few hundred per ounce, the production cost should be cheap too.

When the production cost increases, gold price will increase, since no mining company can afford to take losses.

China is landing on Mars in 2030. If they found billions of ounces of gold there, then all gold investors on earth will go bust! lol...

rotikok said:
I did invest in gold mining company in Australia before and I think 1200 USD is general cost of production for a lot of company. I did not research all gold mining company nor uncertain whether what I said is accurate. It is all down to each individual mining company, and if the scale built up, they can have lower than 1000 USD per ounce production cost. Like the distress St barbara listed in asx, those old mines in Aust that have medium high content at 2-3g/T cost of production is ~800 USD per ounce. During boom year, a lot of lousy mine as low as <1g/T also profitable to develop. If gold price as high as 2000K USD one day, then certainly lot of previously unmineable mine will explored, increase gold supply. Another thing that I am quite curious is that, during last time when gold price as low as few hundred dollar per ounces, how gold mining company able to survive? Or during that period production come into halt, and people used that to show gold is so precious as the production doesn't catch up, a sign of limited commodity?

freedom2005sg · Oct 15, 2014

So guys,

since this is a property thread originally, I would like to hear opinions.

Is it ok to get a 2nd condo at Nusajaya Zone B to rent out upon its TOP in 2017? Price is about RM580 psf.

What about a condo at Permas Jaya Zone A at around RM430 psf?

I know a lot of condo supplies are coming up. That's why I would like to discuss about it.

What kind of psf should I be looking at?

Thanks.

Frodo · Oct 15, 2014

freedom2005sg said:
So guys,

since this is a property thread originally, I would like to hear opinions.

Is it ok to get a 2nd condo at Nusajaya Zone B to rent out upon its TOP in 2017? Price is about RM580 psf.

What about a condo at Permas Jaya Zone A at around RM430 psf?

I know a lot of condo supplies are coming up. That's why I would like to discuss about it.

What kind of psf should I be looking at?

Thanks.

PJ as in Botanika?

freedom2005sg · Oct 16, 2014

Botanika is selling at RM800 psf, last I heard...

Frodo said:
PJ as in Botanika?

AUNTY · Oct 17, 2014

In August, when agent inform me Phase 2- Tower B launching in September, it was around $600psf for 5th floor but must cough out S$35k, furniture not provided but developer provided S$8k to buy your own..

freedom2005sg said:
Botanika is selling at RM800 psf, last I heard...

Condo Supply: Total no. of units in the pipeline.

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