Cost to taxpayers for a scholar

winnipegjets · Jun 5, 2013

Education - 4 years
Fees in a top university - $250k
Stipends/Salary ($5k/mth for 13 months per year), books, accommodation, flights - $500k

First 2 years of career
Salary - 10k per month (With bonus, 16 months per year) = $320k
Pension liability = ????

Next 3 years of career
Salary - 20k per month (With bonus, 18 months per year) = $1.08 million
Pension liability = ????

Next 5 years of career
Salary - 40k per month (With bonus, 20 months per year) = $4 million

Until retirement at 65 (35 years)
Salary - $60k per month (With bonus, 22 months per year) = $46.2 million
Pension liability = ?????

Pension payment until death (assume age 88)
60k per month (50 percent of salary) =$16.5 million

Total cost to taxpayers = $68,850,000.

Does the scholar deliver this value to sinkapore?

Note: If the scholar becomes a minister, compensation and pension go up much more.

mei mei · Jun 5, 2013

What career is shown above? That data from what source? Does PAP really give $5K a month when still a student at uni?

Definitely no value..

BuiKia · Jun 5, 2013

So high?!!!!

The figure you stated is a fact or you humtam one?

Sir_Fcuk · Jun 5, 2013

BuiKia said:
So high?!!!!

The figure you stated is a fact or you humtam one?

Half true, half hantam.... but lets say you half all the figures... still costs about S$35million per scholar of lifetime fees/ confirmed career advancement/ golden rice bowl

Thanks to taxpayers.... and we have had more than 200 SAFOS since inception.... excluding other scholarships

http://dunmanhigh.brightsparks.com.sg/profile/msc/scholarshiptable.php

winnipegjets · Jun 6, 2013

mei mei said:
What career is shown above? That data from what source? Does PAP really give $5K a month when still a student at uni?

Definitely no value..

Scholars earn full pay while they are in university. The $5k is probably a lowball number.

If this is no value, tell me how much does a scholar earn in his lifetime? I have given a ballpark stab at it. Will the government reveal it?

We know they become millionaires in their thirties as their career path is accelerated. Why don't you contribute instead of making a baseless dismissal?

winnipegjets · Jun 6, 2013

BuiKia said:
So high?!!!!

The figure you stated is a fact or you humtam one?

I made assumptions ...so if you have actually numbers, we can finetune the estimate. We know scholars have accelerated career paths, so in mid-30s, they could be making $1 million bucks. I have assumed that amount until they retire at 65. Then their pension which is 50 percent of wages kick in.

The figures could be higher when considering that they sits on various boards.

The point of this exercise is to see how much scholars cost us. They don't come cheap. Why do we reward individuals so handsomely for passing exams?

Narong Wongwan · Jun 6, 2013

Singkieland is under absolute monarchy rule.
We have the imperial examinations to choose the best of the best.
What is wrong? Proven formula for thousands of years in China.

bryanlim1972 · Jun 6, 2013

winnipegjets said:
The point of this exercise is to see how much scholars cost us. They don't come cheap. Why do we reward individuals so handsomely for passing exams?

to give them a vested interest in making sure policies gel with their masters' desires. if the scholar was making a peasant-ly 40k/year, he would not come up with policies to ensure the position of the rich and wealthy like himself.

if the scholar were earning 40k/month, i am sure he would write a paper supporting the end of estate duty tax.

tate · Jun 6, 2013

winnipegjets said:
Scholars earn full pay while they are in university. The $5k is probably a lowball number.

$5K sounds more like highball number, they are still students and have not graduated yet :*:

greedy and cunning · Jun 6, 2013

Narong Wongwan said:
Singkieland is under absolute monarchy rule.
We have the imperial examinations to choose the best of the best.
What is wrong? Proven formula for thousands of years in China.

the best of the bestest for what , do what ???

the bestest asked you want to makan in restaurant or in hawker centre.

you don't need the bestest and betterest scholar type to run a country.
any uni graduate with a genuine concern for the welfare of the citizens
is many time betterest than a bestest scholar who scheme and plot to extract
every oz of blood from citizens.

:o:o:o:o

BuiKia · Jun 6, 2013

I just ask my scholar relative. I dunno which scholarship winnipegjets is talking about but I think the above figure is humtam one. Not so high.

But the actual figure is still rather obscene. Not at the start but later part of the career.

winnipegjets · Jun 6, 2013

tate said:
$5K sounds more like highball number, they are still students and have not graduated yet :*:

Perhaps it is high ...I don't know. It is ballpark figure ...here's some actual figures for non-scholar officers - http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/careers/job_opportunities/io/officer/salaryscale.html. Scholars would probably earn more.

SAFOS
Value of Award

Full salary for the duration of overseas studies (including bonuses)
Full tuition fees and other approved academic charges
Maintenance and other allowances, e.g. books, clothing, computer
Return airfare
Possibility of sponsorship for exchange programmes and Master's degree

Boliao · Jun 6, 2013

BuiKia said:
I just ask my scholar relative. I dunno which scholarship winnipegjets is talking about but I think the above figure is humtam one. Not so high.

But the actual figure is still rather obscene. Not at the start but later part of the career.

Buika is correct. They difference between the schemes is that President & SAFOS scholars are placed on accelerated paths. Meaning, they are guaranteed promotion every two years unless they cock up and every promotion puts them on the highest salary ceiling.

A newly minted COL under scheme C would enter superscale G salary range. I'm not sure what is the current range an article in 2011 puts that at $398,000 annually.

The G does not publish scheme C salary because it is obscene.

BTW, if you search history, you will find that SAFOS and the associated salary schemes/ benefits are introduced in the year LHL goes into NS.

winnipegjets · Jun 6, 2013

BuiKia said:
I just ask my scholar relative. I dunno which scholarship winnipegjets is talking about but I think the above figure is humtam one. Not so high.

But the actual figure is still rather obscene. Not at the start but later part of the career.

Definitely humtum, but not ridiculous amount. SAF Officers and SPF Inspectors get about 3-4k in pay. Since they are scholars, they might receive additional ...who knows.

I am just trying to pin a number on the cost of a scholar to taxpayers ...it is in the tens of millions at least. We know that these scholars start to earn million-dollar salaries when they are in the mid-thirties.

Share with us info about your scholar relative - type of scholarship, money received, pay etc.

These are the scholarship, in order of prestige which the recipients receive full pay while studying ...

President Scholarship - this is awarded on top of an existing scholarship;
SAF Overseas Scholarship
Singapore Police Force Overseas Scholarship
Overseas Merit Scholarship
SAF Merit Scholarship

winnipegjets · Jun 6, 2013

I reviewed the numbers of my first post after feedbacks ...don't think they are totally off base. No revision required at this point.

How many $68-million men and women do we have?

steffychun · Jun 6, 2013

winnipegjets said:
Education - 4 years
Fees in a top university - $250k
Stipends/Salary ($5k/mth for 13 months per year), books, accommodation, flights - $500k

First 2 years of career
Salary - 10k per month (With bonus, 16 months per year) = $320k
Pension liability = ????

Next 3 years of career
Salary - 20k per month (With bonus, 18 months per year) = $1.08 million
Pension liability = ????

Next 5 years of career
Salary - 40k per month (With bonus, 20 months per year) = $4 million

Until retirement at 65 (35 years)
Salary - $60k per month (With bonus, 22 months per year) = $46.2 million
Pension liability = ?????

Pension payment until death (assume age 88)
60k per month (50 percent of salary) =$16.5 million

Total cost to taxpayers = $68,850,000.

Does the scholar deliver this value to sinkapore?

Note: If the scholar becomes a minister, compensation and pension go up much more.

Not forgetting special scholars like Tony Tan's son--sponsored until PhD

steffychun · Jun 6, 2013

Boliao said:
Buika is correct. They difference between the schemes is that President & SAFOS scholars are placed on accelerated paths. Meaning, they are guaranteed promotion every two years unless they cock up and every promotion puts them on the highest salary ceiling.

A newly minted COL under scheme C would enter superscale G salary range. I'm not sure what is the current range an article in 2011 puts that at $398,000 annually.

The G does not publish scheme C salary because it is obscene.

BTW, if you search history, you will find that SAFOS and the associated salary schemes/ benefits are introduced in the year LHL goes into NS.

Many SAF Scholars only touch LTC or COL. Only the special ones reach BG. Super special ones go to MG. The ones who will never be ministers get the CDF spot then made Perm Sec.

winnipegjets · Jun 7, 2013

steffychun said:
Many SAF Scholars only touch LTC or COL. Only the special ones reach BG. Super special ones go to MG. The ones who will never be ministers get the CDF spot then made Perm Sec.

There are the elite scholars (those on SAFOS) and the average scholars (local universities and the merit scholarships). Those on the SAFOS have second career in the civil service.

From an old article (2007) I found ..."there are 351 administrative officers, political, judicial and statutory appointment holders. Their annual salaries include monthly pay, performance bonuses, allowances and annual variable components and the current wage bill for these officers is $200.6 million."

In 2008, the entry superscale officers - SR8 - earns $398k per annual before bonus and aws. Senior Perm Sec (MR4) earns $1.94 million before bonus and AWS.

The 351 scholars plus those in uniformed services would bring us to 400 or more elite scholars feasting on the taxpayer's trough. At $68 million each, that will bring us to a grand total of $27 billion! I am fainting, please check my math.

winnipegjets · Jun 7, 2013

From another report I found ....by age 32, they will be making the big bucks, not that their earlier pay is small change.

A good Administrative Officer should reach Superscale G (SR9) by the age of 32. Recent Promotions to Superscale G have been later than this, but promotion norms were revised to bring forward this key promotion into the first Superscale grade for good officers. Thus, Superscale G earnings will be pegged to earnings of top professionals aged 32, using the following benchmark: The average of the principal earned income of the 15th person aged 32-years old, belonging to 6 professions (bankers, accountants, engineers, lawyers, local manufacturing companies, and MNCs) ["15P32" income].

“We know that the lowest entry grade to Superscale salary range for the Administrative Service is SR9, which is pegged to the 15th-highest earner at age 32 in six professions. In 2010, the Public Service Division, the human resources arm of the Government, said administrative officers at the entry-level Superscale Grade of SR9 got $365,000.

winnipegjets · Jun 7, 2013

A blog on AO salaries ...http://merlionnews.blogspot.ca/2013/04/how-much-does-administrative-service.html

Cost to taxpayers for a scholar

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