Make your comparison between Gang Rape Zainudin and form your own opinion. This started in the blogging place. Gang Bang Zainudin removed all comments that were derogatory or adverse towards him including objective and polite one.
Ganga the blogger received his fair share of nasty comments and they are still there. Who is the one in all this. Which person should be the model MP for this nation. It also seems that Ganga our humble entrepreneur is a member of Mensa.
See the comments on the issue on Ganga's blog - good, bad and the ugly. You tell me whose moral compass is working.
44 COMMENTS:
Singapore_loyalist said...
Fight for your own justice!
Do not let that MP bring you down.
10 MAY 2013 12:30:00 GMT+08:00
Anonymous said...
in your picture, it is very clear that you attributed the "quote" to Zainudin (instead of Terry, ..or indicating that Zainudin quoted Terry).
-jammie
10 MAY 2013 12:35:00 GMT+08:00
Anonymous said...
you have just won yrself a new fan
10 MAY 2013 12:40:00 GMT+08:00
Anonymous said...
There is no discussion to be discussed. You took a section of a quote not by him to create a humiliating meme, labelling it under zainudin.
If you want to create a discussion you should had taken the whole post, which actually made sense and create a proper secondary citation, which you actually did not.
You are shooting yourself in the foot by just letting this matter lingers.
10 MAY 2013 12:47:00 GMT+08:00
Anonymous said...
All of the PAP dogs can vacate the premises now. You got your $1 for the post, now you can all scram.
If got guts, stand out and say these things with your real names instead of hiding behind 'Anonymous'.
Support you to fight these bastards from destroying our society and democracy!
10 MAY 2013 12:57:00 GMT+08:00
Anonymous said...
Hrm so anyone with a different viewpoint is now automatically a "PAP dog"? So much for discussion :p
10 MAY 2013 13:45:00 GMT+08:00
Doctor_Justice said...
Dear people, the MP has burned himself by endorsing a quote from another person. Its as good as saying that he is an accomplice of a crime but he didnt commit it. There is a thin line between the truth and lies, so stop crossing over and back.
10 MAY 2013 13:56:00 GMT+08:00
Anonymous said...
The PAP IB have missed the point again. Whether it was his comment or someone else's quote doesn't matter. He published it on his public facebook page, and so the meme stands because it connects the words with the guy who published them (and then deleted them). The PAP will sue you for other people's comments on your site (that you have limited control over), so why should he hide behind the "it's not my comment" argument? Pathetic from an MP and I applaud your efforts to engage in discussion rather than roll over. Well done.
10 MAY 2013 14:15:00 GMT+08:00
Anonymous said...
Your intention was to mock him, not start a discussion. Your actions very clearly demonstrates this. His response to a troll is a good one.
10 MAY 2013 14:18:00 GMT+08:00
Anonymous said...
It sounds like you're upset that it backfired. The point of the meme is to ridicule. When you ridicule someone, expect the person to be offended.
The legal threat may be too much coming from him. But he has the right to be offended.
The quote from Terry Goodwind itself is accurate in describing the flaw of democracy IF used in its context.
10 MAY 2013 14:25:00 GMT+08:00
Anonymous said...
Hi Mr Gangasudhan, I hope you will engage me in a little discussion here too. First, let me state I am by no means a fan of PAP or their policies. But I do think that quote has some truth behind it. Please let me try to explain.
I believe the quote he was using is referring to the tyranny of the masses. Google it. It means when the desires of the majority supersede the rights of the minority.
Imagine a small country or society of say, 5 people. 3 men and 2 women. If the 3 men want to have sex with the women, but the 2 women don't want to, and the men force sex on them anyway because well, the majority agreed, is that gang rape? Yes. But is that also democracy? Also, yes, because it had been agreed upon by the majority of the population: the 3 men.
Whether there are more women than men in the world in inconsequential, as it is an analogy taken to the extreme that can be applied to large parts of the world.
The native American and Australian people have been metaphorically butt fucked by the majority for more than a hundred years. The inalienable individual rights of the American Japanese were also discarded by US during WW2 when they interned thousands of American Japanese people. The Malaysian Chinese and Indians have also been metaphorically "gang raped" by the Malay majority and the Bumiputera policy for years.
The point of the quote was that the rights of the individual or minority should not be overlooked by what the majority wants. He is in fact saying that democracy - specifically what the majority wants - must never supercede individual rights.
What the MP said had no malicious intent so I hope you guys give this matter a rest.
10 MAY 2013 14:27:00 GMT+08:00
Aaron said...
Agreed.
His quote is actually very good, but then his response to his critics is very childish.
10 MAY 2013 14:50:00 GMT+08:00
'Cher said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
10 MAY 2013 14:56:00 GMT+08:00
Bryan Tan said...
I call bullshit on your defense.
Your meme wasn't a question about whether he meant what he said at all ("$192,000 for this?" doesn't count; you should know better), and it was the effect of the meme - which circulated far and widely on Facebook - that you're being taken to task for.
You should have known better, and done your due dilligence. Asking why Nordin posted a provocative Goodkind quote without context wouldn't have landed you with a C&D notice.
This is your hole you dug, and now you have to climb out of it. Good luck.
10 MAY 2013 14:57:00 GMT+08:00
Anonymous said...
Good one, respect
10 MAY 2013 15:02:00 GMT+08:00
Shahnawaz said...
ZN puts up a long quote from TG.
RB take "most offensive, most controversial" sentence from quote to insinuate that ZN believes wholeheartedly that democracy = gang rape.
GS puts said quote on meme, then questions why ZN is getting paid 192k a year. Says he's doing this not out of mischief but to provoke discussion.
KNN, if I ZN I also sue.
10 MAY 2013 15:20:00 GMT+08:00
Anonymous said...
Obviously he chooses the "most offensive, most controversial" sentence. It's the bloody one we have been offended by.
This Nordin dude ought to apologise for the quote. Memes arising like this one are his fault, no?
10 MAY 2013 15:46:00 GMT+08:00
Anonymous said...
This quote is perfectly sensible when taken in context. Don't see the need for ZN to apologize
10 MAY 2013 15:55:00 GMT+08:00
Anonymous said...
Hi Gangasudhan, I am a Singaporean-Malay myself.
I hope the reference made by MP Zainudin does not reflect on how other Malays would think about the democracy. In fact, I am disappointed and have lost faith on all PAP Malay MPs.
Personally, I have worked on an event with MP Zainudin about 4 few years back. His arrogance in handling ground matters makes me wonder how he is able to serve the citizens at all.
I doubt you will be able to get anything positive from this but I will be supporting you and hopefully, he understands that standing up and explaining the matter would be better than to run and hide behind the lawyers.
He (PAP) just failed the 1st rule of Social Media. When you post something offensive and get caught, the first thing NOT TO DO is to DELETE your post or comments. And he did exactly just that.
All the best and looking forward to the outcome!
- Plsdontrun&hide
10 MAY 2013 16:21:00 GMT+08:00
shawn said...
Gang Rape is not a human thing.Anyone who commits such a perverted unnatural act and must never be accepted in the human society.I will never recognise such low-lifes as human but only as animals.As a muslim,even in Islam such perversion is totally abominated with almost no forgiveness.As such equating gang rape to democracy is totally unthinkable and absolutely irrelevent.Elected officials must be very careful with their utterance in public.Otherwise public office would be no different from a rowdy bar.This MP must apologise for his insensitivity in the choice of his words.
10 MAY 2013 16:33:00 GMT+08:00
Rhys Leong said...
All these trouble just because somebody stole a quote from somebody.
http://cloudywindz.blogspot.sg/2013/05/so-some-people-are-suing-some-people.html
10 MAY 2013 16:45:00 GMT+08:00
Anonymous said...
RB, digging his own grave, whole quote taken out of context. Totally had it coming. Good one ZN!(Though I'd rather you thoughtfully explain it once more to RB, although it has already once been thoughtfully explained once by ZN himself.)
On a lighter note, damn, MOE should remove SBQs from exams, people are getting too smart at inferring crap.
10 MAY 2013 16:51:00 GMT+08:00
Anonymous said...
ZN was basically pointing out some little faults the democracy presents, such as overlooking the needs of the minority because of the consensus of the majority. Gang rape was only an analogy.
It's a general crime, how can you guys get so offended by it?! And it's a damn quote. Blunt, but true.
10 MAY 2013 17:00:00 GMT+08:00
Anonymous said...
By leaving out the 2nd paragraph of the quote, you have changed the whole context.
Yes, peolple like you should be sued.
10 MAY 2013 17:03:00 GMT+08:00
Anonymous said...
Actually, when i first saw the quote out of context i felt it didnt have any malicious intent at all. It was kind of a food for thought. So i couldnt really fathom why was there was a commotion other than the fact that he used a sensitive phrase "gang rape". He didnt equate democracy as gang rape nor is gang rape purely democracy. Its more of an example that gang rape constitutes some form of collective effort as in democracy, and the end result of collective effort may not always be for good. I particularly like the explanation in one of the comments here about the 3 guys 2 woman example. Therefore i think it is a little childish for you to have to resort to a "meme" creation to ask your friends if it is true or not. As much as you reply otherwise it is quite obvious that you did it to generate a buzz as well. (And frankly the edited photo - i wouldnt even call it a meme - wasnt even that funny at all).
However, what has gotten me interested in this commotion was his reply to your photo. I agree with you that it is a hostile reply. Rather than discussing his intent of publicly posting that quotation and connect with the masses to undo the misunderstanding he chose to retract and keep mum and "threathened" or should i say "warn" to take lawful action. Seems petty and cowardice in my opinion.
Hence i like the sass of your reply, but because i dont like how you started this debacle i cannot fully support you. But your act to show how MPs respond to the public through your blog definitely deserves praise. I hope more people do so, to show not only the bad replies, but also the good as we progress toward being a democratic people.
10 MAY 2013 18:19:00 GMT+08:00
Derek Lim said...
So, you take Mr. Zainudin at his word when he makes a post on Facebook, but when he sends you a private correspondence, you express your bewilderment and concern about hostility and his presumably non-inclusive attitude?
I feel Mr. Zainudin made a poor choice in his literary reference (not to mention presentation). Perhaps it may even be indicative of his attitudes and political philosophy - but if you're attempting to draw out that much from a Facebook post, I'd wonder:
1. Why you'd even bother with the post - surely there are better indicators of those things, such as records (or the lack thereof) of his participation in parliament.
2. Why Mr. Zainudin's clearly worded email to you is as puzzling and troubling as you say, given your capacity for careful reading.
10 MAY 2013 19:18:00 GMT+08:00
Anonymous said...
stupid bimbo. he already said that this quote is not from him. image if i state 'im a fucker a big liar fucker' and i put ur face under it. then everyone who reads it thinks you are a fucker and love being fucked. its the same thing cunt.
11 MAY 2013 00:33:00 GMT+08:00
Anonymous said...
I sense that he chanced upon the quote on democracy and thought it'd look cool and edgy on his page, that he'd come across as someone who is relevant with the times and perfectly able to connect on an intellectual level with his humble subjects.
Then it blew way out of proportion and in true Singaporean subordinate fashion - unable to think out of the box - he consulted in his ultra lao jiao masters who urged him to bring in the big guns the old school way and obliterate the impudent peasants who dare to question his authority
11 MAY 2013 01:41:00 GMT+08:00
Anonymous said...
Actually, the quote is from the story Naked Empire
http://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/1443364-naked-empire.
It has NOTHING to do with Iraq and if anyone wants to take the full context, while it touches on tyranny of the masses, its real context was that right and wrong is determined by popularity but by the inherent rightness of the idea.
And yes, that was probably the context and reasons for quote here, but the FULL context is actually slightly disturbing, since it was made as a rebuttal to the Imperial Order ideology and argues for an individualistic society, where each is to his own. Or in the context of that novel, you yourself deserve what you get(The wizard rule in the novel was deserve victory).
Maybe it might help if people read the whole series and know things like
"The Second Rule is that the greatest harm can result from the best intentions. It sounds a paradox, but kindness and good intentions can be an insidious path to destruction. Sometimes doing what seems right is wrong, and can cause harm. The only counter to it is knowledge, wisdom, forethought, and understanding the First Rule. Even then, that is not always enough.” "
The First Rule is
"People are stupid"
11 MAY 2013 01:42:00 GMT+08:00
Anonymous said...
If the MP is not inthe wrong, then why was he deleting his comment?
11 MAY 2013 04:00:00 GMT+08:00
Anonymous said...
"If the MP is not inthe wrong, then why was he deleting his comment?"
Perhaps it's because people with reading comprehension problems are taking his post out of context without even understanding what the whole quote meant. Selectively choosing a sentence, out of an entire chunk, that would effectively put the mp in bad light and then making a meme out of it is not asking for discussion.
How would you like it if I quote your comment as follows: Anonymous thinks that the "...MP is not inthe wrong?"
Made you sound like you think he's right, doesn't it? Not everyone deletes things out of guilty conscience, sometimes it is to reduce unnecessary drama that occurs beyond their control.
An quote posted on fb meant to talk about not overlooking minority rights now sounds like an endorsement of gang rape instead. Look at it another way. Taking the context of the mp's quote correctly, I can also selectively quote replies to this post that disagrees with the mp to mean that they disagree with taking care of minority rights.
It would all end up in a big big misunderstanding.....
11 MAY 2013 06:58:00 GMT+08:00
Anonymous said...
hello
11 MAY 2013 08:14:00 GMT+08:00
Anonymous said...
The important issue here is what was Mr Zainudin's objective in posting the quote on his facebook page in the first place. He has conveniently sidestepped the issue and concentrated on make accusations of mischief. Address the issue Mr Zainudin, before you ask for the meme to be removed. Or are you just incapable of engaging in honest discussion.
11 MAY 2013 08:16:00 GMT+08:00
Anonymous said...
This guy thinks he is a soccer pundit also.
www.centrecircle.com.sg
#toomuchfreetime
11 MAY 2013 09:43:00 GMT+08:00
Anonymous said...
Majority rule is not democracy. Democracy includes individual rights protected by the constitution. So, where the majority puts its will against an individual and if that will infringes his rights, then it's not democracy. It could be tyranny of the majority.
11 MAY 2013 11:34:00 GMT+08:00
Anonymous said...
Hahahaha! So says anonymous. You sir are either a great comedian or a total idiot. It's pretty clear what this liar Ganga was up to. Taking a quote out of context, focusing on rape, misattributing it and in fact implying it was by Zainudin. And then when confronted pretending it was for discussion, but instead of looking at the relevant part of the quote, continues to accuse Zainudin of advocating rape. And yet, in this post he claims to want a discussion on democracy? Sorry. Ganga is a bare faced liar with no honesty or scruples. And not a very smart one at that. So I would add the charge of idiocy to defamation. And honestly if this is the calibre of people you expect to fight to dethrone PAP, well, you figure out your chances.
11 MAY 2013 12:26:00 GMT+08:00
Anonymous said...
ZN has nothing to apologies for. Ganga was clearly trying to ridicule by taking a quote out of context. He is a liar. He is without scruples. He is a coward. And he's stupid. Lay the evidence out as he did and you can see which side the truth lies. I hope he gets sued for every cent.
11 MAY 2013 12:31:00 GMT+08:00
Anonymous said...
Zainudin, please SUE this dumb ass Gangsanam Style guy. It's CLEAR that he wants to stir shit on the internet. Btw Zainudin, let me give you a tip if you're reading this. Singaporeans are not intellectual enough to understand such quotes, so don't bother posting such stuff next time.
11 MAY 2013 14:09:00 GMT+08:00
AC said...
Look at all those anonymous comments. A bunch of cowards!
Fired the MP!
11 MAY 2013 19:18:00 GMT+08:00
AC said...
at the anonymous comments threatening to sue eh?
name yourself!
http://teengirlandpolitics.blogspot.sg/2013/05/gang-rape-is-democracy-mp-zainudin-be.html
12 MAY 2013 11:06:00 GMT+08:00
Anonymous said...
It's a real shame that you didn't have the full quotation and as well as the original author's name in the image(apparently it makes a lot of difference).
12 MAY 2013 15:17:00 GMT+08:00
Anonymous said...
Everyone please go see zainudin Facebook page - he deleted all the negative feedback and comments and kept only the supporting ones. Making it seem like nothing has happened. Taxpayers are paying mp allowance to someone like this who does not hesitate to censor and oppress free speech where people can criticise him freely. Is this the Singapore we want for our children?
12 MAY 2013 17:33:00 GMT+08:00
patriot said...
I disagree with the small country example made by Anon at 10 May 2013 14:27:00. He or she (just like Terry Goodkind) assumes a gross simplification of democracy to rule by majority. Semantics and definitions aside, the current working democracies we see in the world is more than mob rule and they entail individual rights, constitutional law and social norms. For Terry and anon above to claim "democracy is gang rape" is to ignore the other features of democracy.
Moreover, gang rape brings to mind non-consent on the part of the victim, a threat of violence and sexist connotation. All these are counter to our notion of democracy which is why a lot of people are offended by Zainudin's facebook post.
It is this ignorance of other aspects of democracy, unintended or otherwise, and misuse of the gang rape metaphor, that I find the whole quote distasteful and would like Zainudin to explain his choice of this quote.
To those commenters who assume that alot of people have misunderstood the quote (and hence Zainudin) due to them not reading it in its entirety or not being able to comprehend the quote, I suggest you reread the quote.
" ... Gang rape, after all, is democracy in action. ...."
Even though the point of the quote was about something else, the author of the quote did make the claim that gang rape equals democracy in action. Most people, ignorant or not about the point of the quote, took offence with the above claim and Zainudin for posting it as a public figure. What's wrong with that? What's wrong with being offended by this quote and demanding an explanation from a public figure who is supposedly representing you?
To gangasudhan, thank you for creating this meme. May I suggest shortening it to "192K grape?" ?
14 MAY 2013 11:24:00 GMT+08:00
Anonymous said...
Whatever it is, it is ridiculous for some1 to threathen legal action for a MEME! U ever see Fernando Torres or Obama suing MEME makers?
15 MAY 2013 02:44:00 GMT+08:00
