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Do you know mandarin originated from the mongol and the Jin.

†††††

†††††

Alfrescian
Loyal
And mandarin originated from the mongol and the Jin.

After the fall of the Northern Song dynasty, and during the reign of the Jin (Jurchen) and Yuan (Mongol) dynasties in northern China, a common speech developed based on the dialects of the North China Plain around the capital, a language referred to as Old Mandarin. New genres of vernacular literature were based on this language, including verse, drama and story forms, such as the qu and sanqu.[7]

Mandarin Chinese - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
sinkiesnotdumb

sinkiesnotdumb

Alfrescian
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Think its related to the Machu language right?

††††† said:
And mandarin originated from the mongol and the Jin.

After the fall of the Northern Song dynasty, and during the reign of the Jin (Jurchen) and Yuan (Mongol) dynasties in northern China, a common speech developed based on the dialects of the North China Plain around the capital, a language referred to as Old Mandarin. New genres of vernacular literature were based on this language, including verse, drama and story forms, such as the qu and sanqu.[7]

Mandarin Chinese - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...
 
S

Sideswipe

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
the history of the Beijing Mandarin.

during Ming Emperor Yongle time, he shifted the capital to Beiping and bought with him 500K Nanjing citizens that exceeded the Beiping natives. the Beiping dialect was subsequently influenced heavily by Nanjing Wu dialect spoken by the Nanjing natives. the Mandarin became Nanjing Mandarin. during the onset of Qing dynasty, the Manchu people continued to use Nanjing Mandarin in its court. Nanjing Mandarin was spoken by the majority of Beijing natives at that time. the Manchu language and Nanjing Mandarin influenced each other. the Manchu adjusted their own tones and pronunciations to emulate the Nanjing Mandarin. during late Qing times to 1911, the official language was Beijing Mandarin, that was Nanjing Mandarin influenced by Manchu language.

today Beijing dialect, our standard Mandarin is a merge of the Beiping dialect during Yuan Beiping times and Nanjing Wu Beiping dialect during Ming times, influenced by Manchu language.



anyone here understands Nanjing local Wu dialect, what is it like ?
 
G

GOD IS MY DOG

Alfrescian (Inf)
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††††† said:
And mandarin originated from the mongol and the Jin.

After the fall of the Northern Song dynasty, and during the reign of the Jin (Jurchen) and Yuan (Mongol) dynasties in northern China, a common speech developed based on the dialects of the North China Plain around the capital, a language referred to as Old Mandarin. New genres of vernacular literature were based on this language, including verse, drama and story forms, such as the qu and sanqu.[7]

Mandarin Chinese - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...



so during the Warring states period and earlier............all the Chinese were speaking Tamil ?
 
F

fukyuman

Alfrescian
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When the Communist took over, not only they have to decide where to site their capital, but also to choose a unifying language. Cantonese was considered but lost out. The Hongkies have been upset ever since. A waste, a beautiful tonal language. The Canto version of Crouching tiger and hidden dragon sounds so much better, compared to the Mandarin version with their awful regional accents.
 
F

Force 136

Alfrescian (Inf)
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fukyuman said:
When the Communist took over, not only they have to decide where to site their capital, but also to choose a unifying language. .......
Click to expand...

Er... it was the Republicans under Sun Yet Sun that had to choose the National Language following the end of the Manchu Ching empire in 1911. Mandarin was chosen in spite of the fact that Sun himself came from the South in Kwangtung....
:(:(:(
 
S

Sideswipe

Alfrescian (Inf)
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Force 136 said:
Er... it was the Republicans under Sun Yet Sun that had to choose the National Language following the end of the Manchu Ching empire in 1911. Mandarin was chosen in spite of the fact that Sun himself came from the South in Kwangtung....
:(:(:(
Click to expand...

educated Chinese had been using Mandarin as the common language since late Qing times. Cantonese was quite a dominant dialect in the lower Yangtze valley during the last years of the Qing to 1911. it was no surprise that the Cantonese delegates with support from rest of southern delegates in the national assembly ( they had a majority ) wanted to push for Cantonese to be the national language of China. Mr Sun Yat-Sen was against this issue. Sun didn't want to offend President Yuan Shikai who suspiciously viewed this action by the southern delegates to be southern chauvinism. besides, it made sense to continue to promote Beijing Mandarin as the national language since late Qing times.

it was said that Sun persuaded the southern delegates to give up the idea. there was another saying that there was a vote in the national assembly which Cantonese lost to Mandarin by a few votes to be the national language of China. don't know what actually happened back then.
 
L

lnchwmn4

Alfrescian
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††††† said:
And mandarin originated from the mongol and the Jin.

After the fall of the Northern Song dynasty, and during the reign of the Jin (Jurchen) and Yuan (Mongol) dynasties in northern China, a common speech developed based on the dialects of the North China Plain around the capital, a language referred to as Old Mandarin. New genres of vernacular literature were based on this language, including verse, drama and story forms, such as the qu and sanqu.[7]

Mandarin Chinese - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...

very true. mandarin is just a 300 year old northern dialect that formally became the official tongue after 1911 revolution. Sun yat sen had to compromise with the northern warlords rather than to choose Cantonese.
 
The_Hypocrite

The_Hypocrite

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Tat is y sun yet sen is an asshole n hk n macau ppl dont like him. However i feel tat canto could not replace mandarin( though i would like it) as there are too many mandarin speakers in china. N canto is not an easy language to master compared to mandarin. To teach the whole china to speak it would have been impossible. However if i was sun. I would compromised and placed canto as a national language along with mandarin. N it b used w mandarin in the southern provinces. I have been watching Tvb period dramas n the spoken cantonese is very traditional. Mandarin can never replicate it. The sounds n tones is much better in canto. I also think that canto will be extinct due to being overwhelmed by northerners n the cantonese themselves considering themselves as chinese n not cantonese. Hence the cantonese identity is not strong enough to demand independenc. Just my rants
lnchwmn4 said:
very true. mandarin is just a 300 year old northern dialect that formally became the official tongue after 1911 revolution. Sun yat sen had to compromise with the northern warlords rather than to choose Cantonese.
Click to expand...
 
Agoraphobic

Agoraphobic

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Have no idea where the fuck mandarin originated, however, my Ah Kong told me it is from the North, and he is a Southerner. Fuck them and their language.

Cheers!
 
Y

youth123

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It sounds even better with Min Nan version as Cantonese is the language of the barbaric Yue & Vietnamese.
 
Last edited:
W

watchman8

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Agoraphobic said:
Have no idea where the fuck mandarin originated, however, my Ah Kong told me it is from the North, and he is a Southerner. Fuck them and their language.

Cheers!
Click to expand...
Mandarin has similarities with dialects in central, south western and north eastern china. It's probably a combination and natural evolution of language used in Beijing capital after several successive dynasty. If you listen to Sichuan dialect, you will notice the similarities. Hence you can't say mandarin is northern Chinese.

Cantonese is a minority dialect group, but due to the proximity to open sea and hong kong which became a british colony, the first major group of overseas Chinese migrants consists of many Cantonese. This led to many foreigners and overseas chinese to mistakenly think that Cantonese is representative of china.
 
Y

youth123

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Agoraphobic said:
Have no idea where the fuck mandarin originated, however, my Ah Kong told me it is from the North, and he is a Southerner. Fuck them and their language.

Cheers!
Click to expand...

Aiyoh, if Mandarin is so useless why did you learn it then? You can live in your own isolated world and speak Min Nan/Cantonese/Vietnamese.
 
Y

youth123

Alfrescian
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watchman8 said:
Mandarin has similarities with dialects in central, south western and north eastern china. It's probably a combination and natural evolution of language used in Beijing capital after several successive dynasty. If you listen to Sichuan dialect, you will notice the similarities. Hence you can't say mandarin is northern Chinese.

Cantonese is a minority dialect group, but due to the proximity to open sea and hong kong which became a british colony, the first major group of overseas Chinese migrants consists of many Cantonese. This led to many foreigners and overseas chinese to mistakenly think that Cantonese is representative of china.
Click to expand...

Well said!
 
O

Orion

Alfrescian
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††††† said:
And mandarin originated from the mongol and the Jin.

After the fall of the Northern Song dynasty, and during the reign of the Jin (Jurchen) and Yuan (Mongol) dynasties in northern China, a common speech developed based on the dialects of the North China Plain around the capital, a language referred to as Old Mandarin. New genres of vernacular literature were based on this language, including verse, drama and story forms, such as the qu and sanqu.[7]



Mandarin Chinese - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...

Originate is the wrong word. It have elements of Manchurian.

By the way, do you know that no one speaks Manchurian anymore and that it is a dead language like Latin?

So don't go around telling people that Mandarin is Manchurian or you only disgraced yourself.
 
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