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Ptader, LTK, WP & Racism

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
There have been a number of threads and post on this subject. Let me just add my few cents.

Background:
WP as a party had until 2000 a fairly good mix and always had minorities over-representation specially Indians. It was started by a Marshall, a minority member and for the longest time ever led by an Indian, JBJ from 1972 to 2000. That is an impressive record. JBJ also did something that changed the course of history and gave hope to everyone who felt that the PAP was invincible. It cost him his career, his wealth and I am sure it affected his family to some extent. For an educated man and DJ No.1 in the 60s, he would have been top of the pile. I think we can acknowledge his sacrifice.

Support for WP.
It came from across the spectrum and more importantly from the Chinese educated masses. LTK joined a party that was led by an Indian and had a Indians and Malays giving the party an good racial identity. So from this we can tell that LTK has no issues working in such an environment and being led by an Indian.


Intelligentsia and the WP
In the 1980s, there was slow creep of well educated individuals coming into the party. For reasons best know to them, they preferred work behind the scenes. That was dashed when old man went looking for commies and liberation theologies and smashed this lot as well.

A Balakrishnan Incident
In 1995, this clown wrote a defamatory article in the Hammer and in Tamil which no other Party member including JBJ as editor could read and understand. In 1998, the Court found against 3 parties - (1) WP, (2) Balakrisnan and (3) JBJ and all three were told cough up slightly over $500K with costs. Cash strapped WP and other two could not pay and the HIgh Court was petitioned for personal bankruptcy for 2 of them while a winding up order was sought for the Party, putting the 2 seats held in Parliament by LTK and JBJ in jeopardy. Then all the angst began.

LTK background
A Nantah grad, an ex teacher and later a businessman, and like all people of his background, spoken and written English is a really challenge and in a forum calling for open discussion with people with good quality English , it is quite intimidating. There is natural barrier and reticence to engage with other races. Sometimes this is taken as lack of confidence and at other times a perceived sense of subversion and racism appears.

Gomez / Fazli / Sajeev Incidents
All 3 contested under the WP banner and all three quit. It does show that WP has an issue. It does show that WP is not working hard in attracting a proper mix which reflects Singapore accurately. In the western corporate world where diversity is an issue, this would not be acceptable. Then again , there is the fear of bringing in Indians who are perceived as too politically adventurist and careless as Gomez proved. Now that tag would be stuck on Indians if VW and PT are nominated.

If this is too hard to grasp, let me go back and throw in JBJ who sacrificed everything and he is an Indian.

In conclusion
LTK is no different to any other political leader who is looking to get bums on seats with whatever advantages he has and avoiding the weakness that are apparent. He sending GG for poitical discusiion and having SL as pinch hitter is obvious. Though he has done tremendously well in this regard with 8 members in parliament, he and the party leadership need to try much harder as they cannot afford another Fazli or Sajeev incident. They have to attract quality minority candidates such as those who joined SDP in recent years. Chen and Pritam are just two swallows and won't make it a summer.

Frankly with the way that CSJ and Jufrie are going, it is a golden opportunity for WP to position themselves and cast an image that will bring across the quality members that SDP has.
 

lockeliberal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Dear Scroo,

Its a little deeper than that. The personal beef with the PAP runs from the Nantah days, and the suppression of a whole generation of Chinese education in favor of the English educated. The funny thing is that the PAP was the reverse a combination of both English educated political elites joined together with the Chinese educated middle and lower middle classes. That combination and the power structure within the party holds true today.

Its the traditional Chinese towkay style wary of change and valuing loyalty above all else. Sandeep, Faisal Sajez, problems were one of a lack of patience in wanting cadreship and not bidding their time.




Locke












There have been a number of threads and post on this subject. Let me just add my few cents.

Background:
WP as a party had until 2000 a fairly good mix and always had minorities over-representation specially Indians. It was started by a Marshall, a minority member and for the longest time ever led by an Indian, JBJ from 1972 to 2000. That is an impressive record. JBJ also did something that changed the course of history and gave hope to everyone who felt that the PAP was invincible. It cost him his career, his wealth and I am sure it affected his family to some extent. For an educated man and DJ No.1 in the 60s, he would have been top of the pile. I think we can acknowledge his sacrifice.

Support for WP.
It came from across the spectrum and more importantly from the Chinese educated masses. LTK joined a party that was led by an Indian and had a Indians and Malays giving the party an good racial identity. So from this we can tell that LTK has no issues working in such an environment and being led by an Indian.


Intelligentsia and the WP
In the 1980s, there was slow creep of well educated individuals coming into the party. For reasons best know to them, they preferred work behind the scenes. That was dashed when old man went looking for commies and liberation theologies and smashed this lot as well.

A Balakrishnan Incident
In 1995, this clown wrote a defamatory article in the Hammer and in Tamil which no other Party member including JBJ as editor could read and understand. In 1998, the Court found against 3 parties - (1) WP, (2) Balakrisnan and (3) JBJ and all three were told cough up slightly over $500K with costs. Cash strapped WP and other two could not pay and the HIgh Court was petitioned for personal bankruptcy for 2 of them while a winding up order was sought for the Party, putting the 2 seats held in Parliament by LTK and JBJ in jeopardy. Then all the angst began.

LTK background
A Nantah grad, an ex teacher and later a businessman, and like all people of his background, spoken and written English is a really challenge and in a forum calling for open discussion with people with good quality English , it is quite intimidating. There is natural barrier and reticence to engage with other races. Sometimes this is taken as lack of confidence and at other times a perceived sense of subversion and racism appears.

Gomez / Fazli / Sajeev Incidents
All 3 contested under the WP banner and all three quit. It does show that WP has an issue. It does show that WP is not working hard in attracting a proper mix which reflects Singapore accurately. In the western corporate world where diversity is an issue, this would not be acceptable. Then again , there is the fear of bringing in Indians who are perceived as too politically adventurist and careless as Gomez proved. Now that tag would be stuck on Indians if VW and PT are nominated.

If this is too hard to grasp, let me go back and throw in JBJ who sacrificed everything and he is an Indian.

In conclusion
LTK is no different to any other political leader who is looking to get bums on seats with whatever advantages he has and avoiding the weakness that are apparent. He sending GG for poitical discusiion and having SL as pinch hitter is obvious. Though he has done tremendously well in this regard with 8 members in parliament, he and the party leadership need to try much harder as they cannot afford another Fazli or Sajeev incident. They have to attract quality minority candidates such as those who joined SDP in recent years. Chen and Pritam are just two swallows and won't make it a summer.

Frankly with the way that CSJ and Jufrie are going, it is a golden opportunity for WP to position themselves and cast an image that will bring across the quality members that SDP has.
 

kukubird58

Alfrescian
Loyal
hahaha....another waste of bandwidth, superficial and shallow and missing the most important relevation..
the ysl affair which ltk knew of his nonsense well before naming him to contest HG BE....making him unfit to lead wp.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
JBJ's biggest support base came from the Chinese educated in the first place. Its the same base.

I don't think WP tried enough. I have gone thru Sajeev's background and I won't even hire him to organise a forum on road safety. It shows that they were picking people from the streets to meet the race requirements. This was a party that was led by an Indian for 3 decades. One has to ask why they cannot seem to attract quality candidates from the English educated and the minority races.

Its the traditional Chinese towkay style wary of change and valuing loyalty above all else. Sandeep, Faisal Sajez, problems were one of a lack of patience in wanting cadreship and not bidding their time.




Locke
 

Fook Seng

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
hahaha....another waste of bandwidth, superficial and shallow and missing the most important relevation..
the ysl affair which ltk knew of his nonsense well before naming him to contest HG BE....making him unfit to lead wp.

Wah you know so much ah? Are you kuku or squirrel?
 

brocoli

Alfrescian
Loyal
There have been a number of threads and post on this subject. Let me just add my few cents.

LTK background
A Nantah grad, an ex teacher and later a businessman, and like all people of his background, spoken and written English is a really challenge and in a forum calling for open discussion with people with good quality English , it is quite intimidating. There is natural barrier and reticence to engage with other races. Sometimes this is taken as lack of confidence and at other times a perceived sense of subversion and racism appears.

Frankly, if you are nt linked to WP or LTK, please do not speak up for them and try to represent them to explain to lunatics... and legitimize what the lunatics say

LTK only speak teochew and mandarin to residents... as far as party work are involved, he speak english.... even when he speak to swee bee 1 to 1, he speak english... he dont speak mandarin..

Mr Low do not have any hesitation engaging other races... his division have probably the highest number of minority in his committe among the 5 divisons....

I do not know who are your sources in party... but your old fren inside who are as ancient as you are and definitely not involved in the party...

the 5 divisions are mostly run by youngsters...and I have tonnes of youngster fren inside who tell me that all your bullshit are just bulllshit

and if your sources are so accurate... then they will know that beside michelle Lee, there is another high profile GE candidate who have defect to WP.....
the person have been in WP for more than 4 months

can you name the person.... ?

the truth is you know nothing about WP and you hav no source inside at all.....

all your posts are just delusional desperately screaming for attention, misleading readers
 

metalmickey

Alfrescian
Loyal
Frankly, if you are nt linked to WP or LTK, please do not speak up for them and try to represent them to explain to lunatics... and legitimize what the lunatics say

Just a quick question, mr homophobe. Are you a WP member? Does WP support homophobia?
 

brocoli

Alfrescian
Loyal
Just a quick question, mr homophobe. Are you a WP member? Does WP support homophobia?

unlike the all knowing all mighty scroobal, i do not speak for WP ....

i have several frens who are members and volunteers and i regularly diss and criticise WP in front of them...

they are my sources
 

myfoot123

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Gomez / Fazli / Sajeev Incidents
.

Sajeev too ambitious without contribution himself to the residents. Gomez screwed up twice in two elections. Not sure about Fazil, probably another problematic personalities with inferiority complexity. Thus it is hard to think they left has anything to do with races. Within PAP, I believed the malay team waswn't pleased with the leader too, money can silent every displeasure doesn't mean PAP has not screwed the minority especially a particular race.
 

ray_of_hope

Alfrescian
Loyal
and if your sources are so accurate... then they will know that beside michelle Lee, there is another high profile GE candidate who have defect to WP.....
the person have been in WP for more than 4 months

can you name the person.... ?

This is interesting though not entirely a surprise to me as I expected some from other parties in GE 2011 to gravitate to WP. I am also aware that quite a few professionals have expressed interest in joining WP but that the WP do have some requirements, and so the process of talking and getting to know each other is ongoing. I am also aware that MR LTK took it upon himself to personally interest a well-known ethnic minority personality to establish some connection with the party. If he does decide to formally join it would be a major catch as he has his own network of professionals that could follow him in.
 

brocoli

Alfrescian
Loyal
Sajeev too ambitious without contribution himself to the residents. Gomez screwed up twice in two elections. Not sure about Fazil, probably another problematic personalities with inferiority complexity. Thus it is hard to think they left has anything to do with races. Within PAP, I believed the malay team waswn't pleased with the leader too, money can silent every displeasure doesn't mean PAP has not screwed the minority especially a particular race.

PTrader has no credibility... by responding to him, scroobal is just desperate to get as much attention ...

its never about the race.... let me list the number of chinese who fuck up... Eric Tan, Ah Poh and Yaw.... is there a chinese problem???

the only problem.. is that there are many forumers who have nothing to contribute.. but like to start thread with ambiguous content to show like thay know a lot but actually they know... everything s just their opinion/...
 

brocoli

Alfrescian
Loyal
This is interesting though not entirely a surprise to me as I expected some from other parties in GE 2011 to gravitate to WP. I am also aware that quite a few professionals have expressed interest in joining WP but that the WP do have some requirements, and so the process of talking and getting to know each other is ongoing. I am also aware that MR LTK took it upon himself to personally interest a well-known ethnic minority personality to establish some connection with the party. If he does decide to formally join it would be a major catch as he has his own network of professionals that could follow him in.

WP do have some requirements... but its not hard to meet... ironically i think its very hard for those professionals to meet... all the professionals have fucking big head...
 

PTADER

Alfrescian
Loyal
Dear Scroo,

Its a little deeper than that. The personal beef with the PAP runs from the Nantah days, and the suppression of a whole generation of Chinese education in favor of the English educated. Locke

You are spot on about the Natah and Chinese-educated issues. That was Low's main motivation in joining politics. He was confident (or stupid) enough to reveal this ten years after joining the WP. He disclosed it to the 147th Prostitute Press in August 1991 ( Ref: "Sorry, you are not welcome, WP's Low tells the press", 147th Prostitute Press, 29 August 1991) where he revealed he was "angry over the closure of Nantah". Needless to say, it was also a revelation to JBJ and the party members.

Sensing perhaps that he had made a blunder in unwisely revealing his anger over the Nantah issue when the article appeared in the 147th Prostitute Press, Low, in a rally in Hougang on that same Thursday night of 29 August 1991, sought (perhaps) to make amends. In that rally, Low praised Lee Kuan Yew as a "righteous man".

Needless to say, he drew the ire of the WP cadreship (including yours truly) by telling the crowd in Mandarin that , "there is no doubt there are righteous men like Lee Kuan Yew who look after the national welfare".

JBJ was livid when we told him about this. Here we were, fighting the despotic LKY and the PAP, and here was one of our "own", or so we thought then, praising Lee Kuan Yew as being "righteous". It was either the ultimate act of bootlicking or an incredible act of stupidity in praising your political opponents. Or, a very cunning and shrewed move to dogwhistle to LKY that a deal of sorts could be worked out if Low could be allowed to left unmolested - the usual fate befalling oppositionists - ascend and take over the WP.

As expected, Low's "righteous-men-like-Lee Kuan Yew" dogwhistling was widely reported in the 147th Prostitute Press the next day. Lee Kuan Yew was no doubt pleased with Low and revealed this 12 years later and 2 years after Low succeeded in his whispering campaign to destabilise JBJ's leadership, booting out JBJ and taking over as SG of the WP in May 2001.

In an interview with the147th Prostitute Press in September 2003, LKY declared that he found Low Thia Khiang "agreeable": "I find Chiam See Tong, Low Thia Khiang and Steve Chia friendly and agreeable. There are several others, people who made malicious allegations that I was dishonest and corrupt, when they must have known there was no basis for them. I sued them. I did not regard them as serious political opponents." ( Ref: "This is who I am", 147th Prostitute Press, 14 September 2003").

The cadreship who had started being wary of Low after the 1991 Natah disclosure and "righteous-men-like-Lee Kuan Yew" revelation, have, with Low's successful backstabbing of JBJ and the passing of time, been proven right about who Low Thia Khiang really is, what he stood for and what he continues to stand for.
 

metalmickey

Alfrescian
Loyal
You are spot on about the Natah and Chinese-educated issues. That was Low's main motivation in joining politics. He was confident (or stupid) enough to reveal this ten years after joining the WP. He disclosed it to the 147th Prostitute Press in August 1991 ( Ref: "Sorry, you are not welcome, WP's Low tells the press", 147th Prostitute Press, 29 August 1991) where he revealed he was "angry over the closure of Nantah". Needless to say, it was also a revelation to JBJ and the party members.

Being a Nantah graduate makes you a racist? I can totally understand why the Nantah people are upset with the gahment. You study for a degree, in an era when not every mother's son goes to university. It's supposed to be a special thing, and then the government suddenly says "we're not going to recognise that piece of paper". But that makes you a racist?

Oh by the way where are the fucking recordings?
 

mojito

Alfrescian
Loyal
Sensing perhaps that he had made a blunder in unwisely revealing his anger over the Nantah issue when the article appeared in the 147th Prostitute Press, Low, in a rally in Hougang on that same Thursday night of 29 August 1991, sought (perhaps) to make amends. In that rally, Low praised Lee Kuan Yew as a "righteous man".

Needless to say, he drew the ire of the WP cadreship (including yours truly) by telling the crowd in Mandarin that , "there is no doubt there are righteous men like Lee Kuan Yew who look after the national welfare".

JBJ was livid when we told him about this. Here we were, fighting the despotic LKY and the PAP, and here was one of our "own", or so we thought then, praising Lee Kuan Yew as being "righteous". It was either the ultimate act of bootlicking or an incredible act of stupidity in praising your political opponents. Or, a very cunning and shrewed move to dogwhistle to LKY that a deal of sorts could be worked out if Low could be allowed to left unmolested - the usual fate befalling oppositionists - ascend and take over the WP.

Most fascinating! I remember LTK's protege little Yaw saying he will vote for the PAP too if the candidate is good. The acorn doesn't fall far from the tree, does it?
 

PTADER

Alfrescian
Loyal
Being a Nantah graduate makes you a racist? I can totally understand why the Nantah people are upset with the gahment. You study for a degree, in an era when not every mother's son goes to university. It's supposed to be a special thing, and then the government suddenly says "we're not going to recognise that piece of paper". But that makes you a racist?

Oh by the way where are the fucking recordings?

You must be pretty new to the forum, daft and silly to think that I will act and respond to silly, amateurish and juvenile challenges.

Grow up, stick around longer and you will learn a few things beside being a daft and impetuous juvenile coughing up silly, little juvenile challenges.
 

metalmickey

Alfrescian
Loyal
You must be pretty new to the forum, daft and silly to think that I will act and respond to silly, amateurish and juvenile challenges.

Grow up, stick around longer and you will learn a few things beside being a daft and impetuous juvenile coughing up silly, little juvenile challenges.

You just fucking did, fool!

Let me paraphrase what you are saying. Low Thia Khiang really hates the PAP because of the Nantah incident. At the same time he doesn't hate the PAP so much that he will always vote against them. What the fuck man.

There is nothing sadder than to see somebody who has been around as long as you have go about it in such a reckless and foolish way. Insinuating that there are recordings where there are none. So much evidence out there regarding WP's attitudes towards minorities, and you can only talk about some remarks that were said over dinner.

This is democracy, this is an open system. If there is evidence, show it. If not, fuck off.
 
Last edited:

SgParent

Alfrescian
Loyal
.... i have several frens who are members and volunteers and i regularly diss and criticise WP in front of them...

And they remain your friends. That shows they accept criticism.

Hopefully they also reflect and change if necessary, for the good of Oppo cause.
 

PTADER

Alfrescian
Loyal
Most fascinating! I remember LTK's protege little Yaw saying he will vote for the PAP too if the candidate is good. The acorn doesn't fall far from the tree, does it?

Yup, the protege did learn and was trying to emulate his master in dogwhistling to the PAP to leave him unmolested. He saw himself as the anointed one that would take over the SG's position from the Chinese Chauvinist.

Unfortunately or fortunately, he lacked discipline and shat in his own backyard.
 
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