What does it profit a man if he wins the whole world but loses his own soul ?

drifter said:

Soul ? There's no such thing as soul in the first place ... And there's no heaven .. period . gong cheeby like you are asking things that don't exist . What is the skin colour of condom monster . Whahhaha .

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wah bro, i just realised u started cursing and swearing at idiots with hokkien vulgarities. last time you very polite one bro LOL

Toronto said:

I guess Heaven must be very void before the arrival of JC or the time of formation of protestant christianity. Before the arrival of the first catholic Jesuit to the eastern world, our forefather from india and china were all in Hell?
That religion logic don't make sense.

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Hi Toronto,

Before Jesus Christ came as a sacrifice for all of our sins, the Jews were judged according to the Law as in the old testament. The rest of the world, were judged according to their conscience. So, there will be many of our ancestors from India and China and the rest of the world ........in heaven. The good people.

Romans 2:14-16

14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

vamjok said:

wah bro, i just realised u started cursing and swearing at idiots with hokkien vulgarities. last time you very polite one bro LOL

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No point being nice to nasty ppl bro .. I don't buy the ten commandment bullshit . In real life I also nice to those who are nice .. If they are nasty I will hit them hard .. The ten commandment is for sissy .

Toronto said:

If there were a super natural being, why would he need a very specific religion to support his existance?
Why would he need an evangelist? He would be more effective in making direct communication rather through an evangelist. It don't make sense.

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Hi Toronto,

God is the Alpha and the Omega. The beginning and the end. God is the creator of all things. God doesn't need anything to support His existence.

Perhaps to many people, the concept of a deity/deities worshipping is expressed through religions. There are not many times that the word religion is mentioned in the Bible. I managed to find this one:

James 1:26-27

If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless. Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.



We sometimes want things our way. We want to understand things according to our prior perceptional biases. It is only natural. Our minds are structured more for survival than for seeking truths. We yearn comfort through 'rationalization' more than stressing ourselves over the unknown.

The rationalization I am referring to here is the psychological term to describe an unconscious defense mechanism in which perceived controversial behaviors or feelings are logically justified and explained in a rational or logical manner in order to avoid any true explanation, and are made consciously tolerable – or even admirable and superior – by plausible means.

So, with things that we do not understand, we will find ways to sooth our minds through our own 'figuring out' till our minds at put at ease.

Thus, if you are open-minded enough, I will say this (this is from me, I have not found any quotes from the Bible for this yet):

God does not intend that the world He created to be a magical and super-natural world that many 'health and wealth' christians profess.

If you want to live comfortably, you work hard for it. If you want others to treat you well, you treat others well, first. If you want respect, you earn it. If you want to score 'A's in the exams, you better study hard.

So, in the same line of reasoning, God intends that his people sacrifice themselves to preach the Word of God, all over the world. And in the process, demonstrate the love of God, through their care, love, sacrifice to the unsaved ...... all over the world.

Many christians have died in remote places trying to reach out to the ends of the world, preaching the Word of God. These are not the 'health and wealth' christians sitting comfortably in their air-con million-dollar churches, demanding that God bless them with BMWs, condos, investments and fat trust accounts.

Missionary said:

Hi Toronto,

God is the Alpha and the Omega. The beginning and the end. God is the creator of all things. God doesn't need anything to support His existence.

Perhaps to many people, the concept of a deity/deities worshipping is expressed through religions. There are not many times that the word religion is mentioned in the Bible. I managed to find this one:

James 1:26-27

If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless. Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.



We sometimes want things our way. We want to understand things according to our prior perceptional biases. It is only natural. Our minds are structured more for survival than for seeking truths. We yearn comfort through 'rationalization' more than stressing ourselves over the unknown.

The rationalization I am referring to here is the psychological term to describe an unconscious defense mechanism in which perceived controversial behaviors or feelings are logically justified and explained in a rational or logical manner in order to avoid any true explanation, and are made consciously tolerable – or even admirable and superior – by plausible means.

So, with things that we do not understand, we will find ways to sooth our minds through our own 'figuring out' till our minds at put at ease.

Thus, if you are open-minded enough, I will say this (this is from me, I have not found any quotes from the Bible for this yet):

God does not intend that the world he created to be a magical and super-natural world that many 'health and wealth' christians profess.

If you want to live comfortably, you work hard for it. If you want others to treat you well, you treat others well, first. If you want respect, you earn it. If you want to score 'A's in the exams, you better study hard.

So, in the same line of reasoning, God intends that his people sacrifice themselves to preach the Word of God, all over the world. And in the process, demonstrate the love of God, through their care, love, sacrifice to the unsaved ...... all over the world.

Many christians have died in remote places trying to reach out to the ends of the world, preaching the Word of God. These are not the 'health and wealth' christians sitting comfortably in their air-con million-dollar churches, demanding that God bless with BMWs, condos, investments and fat trust accounts.

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Bro you always talk about god here god there .. But first we have to know if there's such thing as god in the first place .. Right ? For example if I tell you coca cola monster ( for you I don't want to use condom monster as an example ) said this said that , ask u do this do that would you obey him ? .

Your reasoning is flawed. In physical life, it is up to us to work hard and enjoy life as much as possible whether it is in intellectual pursuits, sexual enjoyment, or otherwise.

There will be another life after your physical life (note that I refuse to use the idiotic words like "soul" or "spirit"), regardless of your religious affiliation or lack thereof. Why worry about such issues then? Get that pot of gold and spread your love. That's my philosophy.

Missionary said:

A verse from the Bible: What does it profit a man if he wins the whole world but loses his own soul ?

Think about it.

Your life span on earth is about 100 years (if you are lucky) ...... and after-life, eternity.

Do you prefer to live carelessly now, deny God and suffer after death or suffer much inconvenience now, but dwell with God in heaven for the rest of eternity ?

Think about it. From a risk-reward standpoint, is it something worth it for you to ponder over ?

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"Soul" or "spirit" is an extremely poor choice of words, I agree.

I simply believe in life beyond life. And it is not the Buddhist understanding of reincarnation either. That is not worthy of any consideration.

drifter said:

Soul ? There's no such thing as soul in the first place ... And there's no heaven .. period . gong cheeby like you are asking things that don't exist . What is the skin colour of condom monster . Whahhaha .

Click to expand...

drifter said:

Bro you always talk about god here god there .. But first we have to know if there's such thing as god in the first place .. Right ? For example if I tell you coca cola monster ( for you I don't want to use condom monster as an example ) said this said that , ask u do this do that would you obey him ? .

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Have you investigated meiosis ? Have you asked yourself what is life ?

Have you asked yourself why when water is cool it contracts but when it almost freezes over, it expands ...... and as a result, during winters, lakes are frozen at the top while fishes still managed to survive in unfrozen waters below ?

If the sun is just a few kilometres closer to the earth, all life-forms will be wiped out. Have you asked yourself what keeps things in order ?

All that my God requires of me is written in the Bible. I read my Bible before I committed to be a christian. So there is no need to ask all forms of imaginary hypothetical questions of what He will ask of me.

vamjok said:

wah bro, i just realised u started cursing and swearing at idiots with hokkien vulgarities. last time you very polite one bro LOL

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Drifter uses strong words because the TS is obviously not here to reason with you.

Goh Meng Seng falls into the same category.

Missionary said:

So there is no need to ask all forms of imaginary hypothetical questions of what He will ask of me.

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Missionary said:

Have you investigated meiosis ? Have you asked yourself what is life ?

Have you asked yourself why when water is cool it contracts but when it almost freezes over, it expands ...... and as a result, during winters, lakes are frozen at the top while fishes still managed to survive in unfrozen waters below ?

If the sun is just a few kilometres closer to the earth, all life-forms will be wiped out. Have you asked yourself what keeps things in order ?

All that my God requires of me is written in the Bible. I read my Bible before I committed to be a christian. So there is no need to ask all forms of imaginary hypothetical questions of what He will ask of me.

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Your answer on why water expand when freeze http://www.iapws.org/faq1/freeze.htm

Like all cells, fish cells contain saline, or salt water. Since salt water has a lower freezing point than pure water, even when encased in ice at thirty-two degrees Fahrenheit, cold-water fish are not technically frozen. Moreover, some fish contain a kind of antifreeze substance that allows them to survive very cold conditions.
The Notothenioids are a group of more than 120 marine fish species, most of which are native to Antarctic waters. Antarctic Notothenioids have remarkable proteins in their bloodstream that prevent them from freezing. These "antifreeze proteins", as they are commonly known, bind to tiny ice crystals in their bodies, inhibiting further growth.


"If the sun is just a few kilometres closer to the earth, all life-forms will be wiped out. Have you asked yourself what keeps things in order "?

Bro , That's the beauti of Mother Nature .. If u want to know how nature work maybe you can go and read up some science book instead of the bible .

Bro the bible is just a storybook , and u actucally believe every single words its written there ? I always thought u are a thinking christain . That's why alot of Christians don't question the bible .. Cause your religion don't want u to ask .. Worry if you ask too much question . you will drop your faith instantly .

The bible also don't have answer to all the things happen on earth .. Just one word .. God created earth and everything don't need to explain Liao .. It's crazy .

(a) meiosis is the process by which one diploid cell containing two copies of each chromosome, one from the male and one from the female, divides into four haploid gametes each containing half the number of chromosomes as the original cell

(b) water contracts when it cools because the average random kinetic energy of the molecules decreases as temperature decreases, thus bringing the molecules closer together

(c) water expands when it freezes because in ice, the water molecules form extensive hydrogen bonding. Each water molecule becomes hydrogen-bonded to four other water molecules in a regular 3-D pattern containing many empty spaces.

(d) The bottom of lakes is not frozen in winter because the water pressure is greater there. Because water expands when it freezes, an increase in external pressure decreases the freezing point (or melting point) of water, and so water at bottom of lakes freeze at lower than 0 degrees celsius (273.16 Kelvins). Thus water at lake bottoms don't freeze.

(e) The planets are at the positions that we observe them due to the way the solar system formed. It so happened at our planet formed at precisely the position to support life. Scientists have predicted that this could also happen in other star systems, which means life is also possible in other parts of the universe. Had Earth formed at some other position, we would not have evolved and we would not even be around to ask these questions.

(f) I learnt all of this in HIGH SCHOOL, in a rigourous and intellectually challenging manner. I am very satisfied with learning these from the proper sources.

Missionary said:

Have you investigated meiosis ? Have you asked yourself what is life ?

Have you asked yourself why when water is cool it contracts but when it almost freezes over, it expands ...... and as a result, during winters, lakes are frozen at the top while fishes still managed to survive in unfrozen waters below ?

If the sun is just a few kilometres closer to the earth, all life-forms will be wiped out. Have you asked yourself what keeps things in order ?

All that my God requires of me is written in the Bible. I read my Bible before I committed to be a christian. So there is no need to ask all forms of imaginary hypothetical questions of what He will ask of me.

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drifter said:

Like all cells, fish cells contain saline, or salt water. Since salt water has a lower freezing point than pure water, even when encased in ice at thirty-two degrees Fahrenheit, cold-water fish are not technically frozen. Moreover, some fish contain a kind of antifreeze substance that allows them to survive very cold conditions.
The Notothenioids are a group of more than 120 marine fish species, most of which are native to Antarctic waters. Antarctic Notothenioids have remarkable proteins in their bloodstream that prevent them from freezing. These "antifreeze proteins", as they are commonly known, bind to tiny ice crystals in their bodies, inhibiting further growth.

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Yes, you are right!

The presence of chemically inert solutes like sodium or potassium chloride in a solvent like water has the effect of both boiliing point elevant and melting point depression. There is in fact a precise formula for calculating it.

The higher water pressure at bottoms of lakes and oceans also cause melting point depression. The two factors combined, result in water not freezes at bottoms of lakes.

When i ask if you have investigated meiosis, I wasn't asking for the rudimentary understanding of it. I have studied them before at school too.

The amazing thing about these life processes, for example meiosis (just for illustrative purposes), is that there is no room for random processes in them. If one tiny step is out-of-whack in the whole complex process, the formation of new life doesn't work. My contention is, there is no way the stochastic processes of chance is able to evolve a sequence as complex as these.

As with regards to the water case, the property of expanding at 4 degrees celsius, resulting in water being less dense, moving up to the top of the lake and enabling the lake to freeze from to top-down ...... and when summer comes again, fishes continue to thrive and reproduce again. This property is uniquely found in water. Not in most other substances. For most other substances, they will continue to contract, though nonlinearly.

While a group of scientists may regard this as an anomaly, some other scientists marvel at the grand design ..... among the colossal amount of other wonderful creative processes ..... that support life.

I revisit this issue with Drifter, because I mentioned in an earlier post ...... that the random process is like putting a huge number of chimpanzees in a hall, letting each of them have a typewriter. Over many million years, do you foresee that out of the millions of attempts by these apes at hitting the keyboard ..... that they are able to come up with a masterpiece like 'Mid-summer's night dream' ? Or other readable work ?

Life itself, is a masterpiece. How much have we thought about it ?

Many people brush away creation by a supreme being and conveniently substitute it with the random process. How much have they thought about the random process ?

Lastly, I am pleasantly surprised that this discussion in this part of the forum is able to proceed in a very civil manner. Thanks guys, I really appreciate it.

You ask rudimenatry questions, you shall get rudimentary answers.

Randomness works in nature in ways you don't understand. Without randomness, we don't get mutations, ecological selection, etc. Randomness is also at the heart of quantum mechanics, which explains why the world is made up of matter and planets and not just a vacuum filled with EM radiation.

You can't prove that random processes alone cannot result in the creation of life on Earth. May I remind you that the maker of the claim has the responsibility of proving it, not the challenger to that claim.

Scientists on the other hand, have a slick tool called Occam's Razor, which demands the simple explanation as opposed to the complex one. Your intelligent design theory is as neatly excised by Occam's Razor as it would sever a mole from the heel of my foot.

Missionary said:

When i ask if you have investigated meiosis, I wasn't asking for the rudimentary understanding of it. I have studied them before at school too.

The amazing thing about these life processes, for example meiosis (just for illustrative purposes), is that there is no room for random processes in them. If one tiny step is out-of-whack in the whole complex process, the formation of new life doesn't work. My contention is, there is no way the stochastic processes of chance is able to evolve a sequence as complex as these.

As with regards to the water case, the property of expanding at 4 degrees celsius, resulting in water being less dense, moving up to the top of the lake and enabling the lake to freeze from to top-down ...... and when summer comes again, fishes continue to thrive and reproduce again. This property is uniquely found in water. Not in most other substances. For most other substances, they will continue to contract, though nonlinearly.

While a group of scientists may regard this as an anomaly, some other scientists marvel at the grand design ..... among the colossal amount of other wonderful creative processes ..... that support life.

I revisit this issue with Drifter, because I mentioned in an earlier post ...... that the random process is like putting a huge number of chimpanzees in a hall, letting each of them have a typewriter. Over many million years, do you foresee that out of the millions of attempts by these apes at hitting the keyboard ..... that they are able to come up with a masterpiece like 'Mid-summer's night dream' ? Or other readable work ?

Life itself, is a masterpiece. How much have we thought about it ?

Many people brush away creation by a supreme being and conveniently substitute it with the random process. How much have they thought about the random process ?

Lastly, I am pleasantly surprised that this discussion in this part of the forum is able to proceed in a very civil manner. Thanks guys, I really appreciate it.

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drifter said:

Aiya , your story have been told by a lot of delusional ppl .. Nothing new and not surprise I know some normal ppl that become crazy over night .. Don't believe go and ask IMH doctor .

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A typical bad boy/gangster/ex-convict/bully/anti-christian/.... turned goody-goody christian story. Macam follow template. And i can speak from first-person experience. Yes, many now warded long term in IMH have also experienced god. In fact, god talks to them everyday!

Missionary said:

Lastly, I am pleasantly surprised that this discussion in this part of the forum is able to proceed in a very civil manner. Thanks guys, I really appreciate it.

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Bro Missionary,
It can be explain. Before I explain, let me give you a biblical verse as encouragement.

Galatians 6:7-8: "For whatsoever a man sow, that shall he also reap."

You reaped what you sowed. You are a moderate christian. You are different from the radical xtians in this forum. Haha, the radical xtians would think I a m hypocrite or liar, have I not been posting very controversial facts about the bible and christianity. You form of christianity pagan like me finds acceptable, very ironical.

I know NPL too, people like people who are like themselves. You have smartly applied NLP to generate resonance.

bro Missionary,
Your creationist ideology contradicted the WORDS of God as in the bible:

"Yahweh fashions a man from the dust (Heb. adamah) and blows the breath of life into his nostrils, then plants a garden (the Garden of Eden).."

YHWH had created the first man and woman in a very magical process. YHWH is like a magician, you call that creationist? How can the entire human race stemmed from just two individuals named Adam & Eve? They were unquestionably civilised man and woman.
Please don't ignore archaelogical fact that prehistoric man came first. That was much further back in history than the biblical 6000 years.

bro Missionary,
Another radical xtian(a cultist) said that the creationist ideology is like the Computer Science field of Object Orientated Programming where "someone must be present in this great void to program (ie. Class) the DNA first before any life form can actually exist."



Like yours, his version also contradicted the bible.

I am not a computer programmer, it took me around 2 months to understand the gists of Object Orientated Programming(OOP). OOP would suggest a hierarchical of Gods.

Object Orientated Programming (OOP) is a programming field under Computer Science. Object itself is non-trivial programming block. Core object-oriented properties are inheritance, encapsulation, polymorphism, and abstract classes. Inheritance supports hierarchy (=hierarchy G), Object can have many parents classes and sub-class descendants (=demi-Gods & sub-Deities). An Object class composes of methods and attributes. Methods and attributes can take many forms –public, private, protected, void and static.


Polymorphism, a cornerstone of OOP. The word is derived from the Greek for “many types” or “many forms.” Think of polymorphism in terms of interchangeable objects, because you can assign any subclass to a variable of the base class type.

There are creational patterns in OOP that supports the creation of objects in a system. Most object Systems of any complexity requires many objects to be instantiated over time, and these patterns supports the creation process by helping to provide the following capabilities: Generic Instantiation, Simplicity , Abstract Factory, Builder, Singleton and Prototype.


Polymorphism allows a client object to call a method in an object and expect a certain result. The client is not interested in whether the object is instantiated from the base class or subclass, only in whether it can performthe task. The interface definition defines what tasks it can accomplish.