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Puteri Harbour Community

Investor888

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Yes I agree still can keep in the longer term.

When Ferry Terminal up and running to Singapore and the Convention centre opens together with the several high class condos, this place will be a wonder. I am actually looking forward to RM 3500psf in 5-10 years time when Medini and Sunway Iskandar, PH jigsaw is pieced together. Of course, the naysayers who never bought anything and miss out the boat will surely be sore nay sayers but who cares. I get to enjoy my perfect and peaceful seaview while Forrest City residents will admire the busiest and one of the most polluted Straits in the world.
 

sthelen

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Yes I agree still can keep in the longer term.

When Ferry Terminal up and running to Singapore and the Convention centre opens together with the several high class condos, this place will be a wonder. I am actually looking forward to RM 3500psf in 5-10 years time when Medini and Sunway Iskandar, PH jigsaw is pieced together. Of course, the naysayers who never bought anything and miss out the boat will surely be sore nay sayers but who cares. I get to enjoy my perfect and peaceful seaview while Forrest City residents will admire the busiest and one of the most polluted Straits in the world.



Any housewarming party for Puteri Harbour Community friends ?....*smile*
 

xebay11

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Yes I agree still can keep in the longer term.

When Ferry Terminal up and running to Singapore and the Convention centre opens together with the several high class condos, this place will be a wonder. I am actually looking forward to RM 3500psf in 5-10 years time when Medini and Sunway Iskandar, PH jigsaw is pieced together. Of course, the naysayers who never bought anything and miss out the boat will surely be sore nay sayers but who cares. I get to enjoy my perfect and peaceful seaview while Forrest City residents will admire the busiest and one of the most polluted Straits in the world.

Nobody is sore, because astute investors will not invest in JB, unless it is retail investment, your condo will fall into disrepair and poor maintenance soon and property price will erode, open your eyes and see. I bypassed investing in JB after going through property guru and saw so many nice condos for rent under RM 3k and all not rented out, I can pick and choose the best and newest and after a while when maintenence starts to deteriorate, I will just pack and move to the next one, so why should anyone envy you?
 

cow138

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Investment is always a risk and there's no right or wrong decision.
Just make sure that you have holding power And hope that the govt infrastructure will materialise as promised. It's never a sure thing especially in Malaysia.
 

xebay11

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Investment is always a risk and there's no right or wrong decision.
Just make sure that you have holding power And hope that the govt infrastructure will materialise as promised. It's never a sure thing especially in Malaysia.

Definitely, but a lot of people who invest in JB think and talk like they are investing in Singapore, and I feel that I should always highlight to them it is not, and even investing residential property in Singapore is a huge mistake too as the latest news shows that Singapore is overbuilt till 2020 and prices are going to fall and tenants are going to be scarce. So please be aware of the pitfalls and save your dreams to yourself and don't get too excited. The safest residential investors are those who bought landed.
 

btravelling

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Nobody is sore, because astute investors will not invest in JB, unless it is retail investment, your condo will fall into disrepair and poor maintenance soon and property price will erode, open your eyes and see. I bypassed investing in JB after going through property guru and saw so many nice condos for rent under RM 3k and all not rented out, I can pick and choose the best and newest and after a while when maintenence starts to deteriorate, I will just pack and move to the next one, so why should anyone envy you?
My 1.4 million dollar SG condo is 15 years old, auto lighting outside broken, gym equipment broken, buzzer at gate broken, leaks when it rains in 2 bedrooms, paint peeling, floor cracked, mid Island nothing special, no maintenance, people don't want to invest in their complex, I don't get it, "we are waiting for a quote...." Is all I hear. I will take my chance in Puteri Harbour as an investment and place to live long term. 1/5 the the price, 30% bigger, 40th floor, sea view, next to marina and Government buildings, foreign ownership who I assume will want to keep buildings maintained. I can buy a car tax free with no COE, join a gold club at the fraction of the cost, and enjoy a lower cost of living. PH is not JB city, nor is it Singapore I admit, which is fine with me, I do not have 5 mill to buy something similar in SG and attain the same lifestyle, nor would I want to spend as much or more on an HDB.
 

sgcount

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Nobody is sore, because astute investors will not invest in JB, unless it is retail investment, your condo will fall into disrepair and poor maintenance soon and property price will erode, open your eyes and see. I bypassed investing in JB after going through property guru and saw so many nice condos for rent under RM 3k and all not rented out, I can pick and choose the best and newest and after a while when maintenence starts to deteriorate, I will just pack and move to the next one, so why should anyone envy you?

Very well-said. I am not sore too. Actually, I am very worried now as I have paid a few deposits for a condo in Medini. Didn't do my homework properly the last time. Rushed in like everyone did. After studying all the facts and figures now, it's more serious than most try to console themselves.

Yes, it is easy to argue "no one knows the future.... Iskandar might just take off next time". But that in itself already sounds like a gamble. Anyone could have very well said: "Let's invest in some cheap XYZ city in Zimbabwe or ABC island off Indonesia. 50 years from now, they may prosper." Is there anyone who dares to take such risks?

The situation may not be so bad if you are going to, or already retired. Your children are all grown up. You can drive in and out of the causeway at 3am or 3pm. You have all the time in the world to do whatever you want. Then maybe it could be nice to own a condo there -- Cheaper and bigger. But what you're going to do around the area every day is another matter. For the whole place to be developed well (if ever), it will take decades. (Add in many more years, given this is Malaysia, not efficient Singapore.)

But it's even better if you have a lot of money and the cost of that property does not make you feel the pinch. That's because I personally won't expect to find buyers next time. It's a property you should expect to keep till death or pass down to your children/grandchildren.

For investors hoping to rent out at a profit, or worst, sell to future buyers, there's some serious re-evaluation to do. The facts and data are all there, which show Iskander is not an area to invest in. It's in the "very high-risk" category. You can take your chance to invest but work out your finances to see if it makes sense at all.

It's not about naysayers or anything like that. You can have a chat with astute investors, unbiased property agents with no vested interest in Iskandar, experienced property analysts, bankers, company bosses, etc... All of them will point you to the same bleak future for Iskandar, especially in the residential property. About the only group of people I know who will hint at Iskandar doing well is, of course, the property developers there and those who are trying to market the properties! It's obvious why they do so cos it's their job to earn money trying to sell Iskandar.
 
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xebay11

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Your post saddened many existing owner and scare off many potential buyer.

Nothing much can be done for existing owners except sit tight, and if things really go South, just default on the loan and declare bankruptcy to escape, as for potential owners, the signs are pretty clear now, just note that 26 Sep may be another date for a flash point by the anti-chinese protesters, please, please be aware what is happening in Malaysia. Right now better be scared off then sorry.

I have been studying the Malaysia and Australian property market for 30 years since I was a wee young student in the early 1980s, I was at Holiday Plaza with my father when it was first built and looking at the unoccupied shops in the early years, my father was an astute property investor who made a pile buying and selling factories in the recession 1980s in Singapore, he taught me how to invest in properties and introduced me to the concept of "anak", anyway I would say I missed that opportunity then, it would have been a good 30 plus years of run if I had bought, but JB is no longer the same now with so much oversupply of development, these days if a mall can last 5 years, you can say you are damned lucky, so many new ones coming up in the next two years, definitely will be oversupply also, I was presented with Capital City 21 development, I put in all my years of real estate investment knowledge to help me make my decision, it was tough, the shop had three facings, front and rear and side and was food business capable, the mall concept also was good, cinema, hotel and apartments and only $200 plus k and I walked away in the end and glad I did, the upfront money only about RM 100k or SGD 30k plus, I told my friends we can virtually buy nothing for SGD 30k plus except a good night's sleep, now looks like the sleep is priceless and worth more than the money I saved. Only the most astute or lucky buyers in JB have made some money from JB properties but that was at most a few years ago, in the past, the opportunities are dwindling fast now.

Singaporeans are still buying residential properties in JB, because they have a mindset that buying there is same as buying in Singapore, they never factor in oversupply, poor facilities maintenance, social unrest or even the impending VEP, for the common man, yes there may be a need to retire in JB for cheaper costs, just rent there will do, beautiful Puteri Harbor will most like be had for retirement for about SGD 900 per month, you don't even need to rent out your whole HDB, just rent out your master bedroom and you can enjoy the fabulous view and convenient location and enjoy a good night's sleep, I think Puteri Harbor investors would be sore of this and not the other way around, as once you move out after enjoying the first and best five years, they would be holding the baby to carry on forever. Renters just move on to the next best and newest development.

Sorry to be a nay sayer but sometimes nay sayers may be right too.

Cheers
 
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xebay11

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Loyal
But it's even better if you have a lot of money and the cost of that property does not make you feel the pinch. That's because I personally won't expect to find buyers next time. It's a property you should expect to keep till death or pass down to your children/grandchildren

Have you fully done your homework check on foreigners passing down Freehold property to your descendants? I heard that there may be some restrictions and complications too, I may be wrong but worth a check.

Remember, balls of steel to carry on the investment. I have retired even from property investment now and just enjoying the fruits.
 
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FHBH12

Alfrescian
Loyal
Very well-said. I am not sore too. Actually, I am very worried now as I have paid a few deposits for a condo in Medini. Didn't do my homework properly the last time. Rushed in like everyone did. After studying all the facts and figures now, it's more serious than most try to console themselves.

Yes, it is easy to argue "no one knows the future.... Iskandar might just take off next time". But that in itself already sounds like a gamble. Anyone could have very well said: "Let's invest in some cheap XYZ city in Zimbabwe or ABC island off Indonesia. 50 years from now, they may prosper." Is there anyone who dares to take such risks?

The situation may not be so bad if you are going to, or already retired. Your children are all grown up. You can drive in and out of the causeway at 3am or 3pm. You have all the time in the world to do whatever you want. Then maybe it could be nice to own a condo there -- Cheaper and bigger. But what you're going to do around the area every day is another matter. For the whole place to be developed well (if ever), it will take decades. (Add in many more years, given this is Malaysia, not efficient Singapore.)

But it's even better if you have a lot of money and the cost of that property does not make you feel the pinch. That's because I personally won't expect to find buyers next time. It's a property you should expect to keep till death or pass down to your children/grandchildren.

For investors hoping to rent out at a profit, or worst, sell to future buyers, there's some serious re-evaluation to do. The facts and data are all there, which show Iskander is not an area to invest in. It's in the "very high-risk" category. You can take your chance to invest but work out your finances to see if it makes sense at all.

It's not about naysayers or anything like that. You can have a chat with astute investors, unbiased property agents with no vested interest in Iskandar, experienced property analysts, bankers, company bosses, etc... All of them will point you to the same bleak future for Iskandar, especially in the residential property. About the only group of people I know who will hint at Iskandar doing well is, of course, the property developers there and those who are trying to market the properties! It's obvious why they do so cos it's their job to earn money trying to sell Iskandar.

There are always property cycles. The Iskandar region has seen a lot of improvements relative to other parts of Johor in recent years. A lot of items (e.g. food and construction materials) in Singapore are imported from there, and many Singaporeans go there for relaxation and recreation. Development there is slowing down to more normal pace but it is not totally dead and worthless. With RM depreciating by about 20% since you bought it, it will be easier to service the loan. As not all are born with a silver spoon, do work out an exit plan if you don't have holding power.
 

sgcount

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Loyal
Have you fully done your homework check on foreigners passing down Freehold property to your descendants? I heard that there may be some restrictions and complications too, I may be wrong but worth a check.

Remember, balls of steel to carry on the investment. I have retired even from property investment now and just enjoying the fruits.

Oh... I didn't know of any complication about passing down properties to descendants. I thought it's just "buying over" at worst. If that is indeed a restriction also, then really, it's driving a fast car into a wall to own an Iskandar property, doesn't matter how spacious your home is or how good the view is.

I know that Malaysia has weird rulings and as they say, "Malaysia boleh". I was in a Malaysian bank last year. One staff told me I got to pay admin fees, another said I did not have to. Nobody seemed to know the exact requirement even though it was a simple process. This is a bank we're talking about, not some night street market! That experience really surprised me. Actually it freaked me out a little as I realised how easy it is for them to do what they wish because there are no clear guidelines.

As we have seen, rules in Malaysia can change overnight, and we really can't be sure about the future. One thing I'm quite confident is, whenever they pass down new policies, foreign buyers are likely the first to be disadvantaged. They know foreigners are generally richer than their own people and definitely, they have to protect their own citizens first.

You made a very good point though about renting a place in Puteri Harbour (or other parts of Iskandar) for cheap instead of buying a property itself. One is not tied down to a liability and can come and go any time.

I hear some buyers consoling themselves by saying, if all else fails, just treat it as a "holiday home". That must be a damn expensive holiday home! You have to really work out the details. It's easy to say it but is it feasible or reasonable? How often are you going to go back there? Every weekend? Brave the jam for hours and pay toll charges? I doubt so. Ok, maybe once every few months. But is it worth it? The property is continually sucking money out of you.

It's different liking the place as a tourist and as a property owner/investor. One may like the place for a short stay but just to buy a property there and stay there for months and years, I'm not so sure.... This is something that I also recently thought about.

Say, if I like to have a break, I'd take time off and check in to a nice hotel for 2-3 nights. I wouldn't spend the rest of my life there! What can I do there? I think I will get bored. Developing the whole place will likely take decades. That's provided they have planned it well. From how Iskandar is progressing, I'm not seeing this.

What I see is, the authorities have collected lots of money from investors, overbuilt a massive amount of residential properties causing a huge oversupply they are unlikely to clear in many years, promised Iskandar will be some "urban wellness" center, eduhub, etc etc... but on the other hand, we have seen how businesses have pulled out from there. Even very big companies and owners got no choice but to change their strategies or even stop their projects indefinitely.

In addition, we have read how unstable the political system is there. Interest rates are going to rise. Many realise RM is depreciating like crazy. Some say it's a good thing. I prefer, however, to view it another way and conclude as Singaporeans, it means our properties are losing their value along the way. It's not some currency cycle here. If you look at the historical SGD vs RM currency, RM has continually declined over the years. If one has lost almost 20% to currency alone in just 2 years recently, how is he going to make back that huge amount from the property? Through capital appreciation? As good as impossible for Iskandar. And it could get worse.

When we, who have put our money in Iskandar, are seeing all these, it's reasonable to be scared. Those signs are alarm bells ringing.

As far as developing Iskandar is concerned, at least if it's the Singapore government we're talking about, I'd have faith and be confident. But it's Malaysia we're dealing here (sorry, no offence to Malaysians but the facts are there.)

Ok, just sharing as I noticed some bros or sis may not have considered carefully. Not trying to put anyone down. I'm one who have invested myself so it's not empty talk.

But I'm not sure if defaulting the loan and declare bankruptcy is the way to go. Not sure what the consequences will be. Rather, I think if you are able to cut losses now, then it's a consideration.
 

Manhattan

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Indeed, everyone is spooked by what happened in recent months, even Peter lim is spooked, down scaled his mega project and changed entire master plan to buy some time. Oh...not to forget the motorcity got no news for so long that nobody remembers what it's about.
 

sgcount

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There are always property cycles. The Iskandar region has seen a lot of improvements relative to other parts of Johor in recent years. A lot of items (e.g. food and construction materials) in Singapore are imported from there, and many Singaporeans go there for relaxation and recreation. Development there is slowing down to more normal pace but it is not totally dead and worthless. With RM depreciating by about 20% since you bought it, it will be easier to service the loan. As not all are born with a silver spoon, do work out an exit plan if you don't have holding power.

Iskandar has slowed down a lot not quite because of the usual property cycle we are familiar with. It's just that in the past few years, not many have thought carefully about the possibility of oversupply and other negative reasons which will make the investment questionable.

The Malaysian authorities who are responsible for selling land in Iskandar didn't even plan how things should turn out. Developers got greedy, saw many foreigners (especially Singaporeans) are coming in after the cooling measures were introduced here, and the authorities simply sold and sold the land. Prices of Iskandar properties were all marked up higher than they should be. It was only after Maybank sounded a serious warning and the Singapore government cautioned local investors that there is a huge oversupply that people suddenly realised, Eh actually, is it really safe to invest in Iskandar?

I do agree many Singaporeans go there for R&R. But as I mentioned in my earlier post above, enjoying the place as a tourist should not necessarily translate to wanting to buy a property there. As an investor, one still needs to study if it's a high risk form of investment. Iskandar is considered so.

If an investor is rich, and can afford to lose the amount paid for the property without much pinch, then I think he or she is safe. But I'm thinking.... even if you're rich, you don't just throw money away like that. Well, unless you are really THAT DAMN RICH! :smile:

For a normal investor who is looking to rent out or find future buyer, it's very tough or not optimistic at all. Even if one is buying for own stay, he or she got to be prepared to hold for decades and there may also be no buyer or it has to sold at a very huge loss given the oversupply.

Unfortunately, for Iskandar, I don't think there is a good exit plan. It's not like Singapore where if you are desperate, you can sell your property slightly lower and there will be buyers queuing. The problem with Iskandar is, if nobody is interested in the property, you can't even sell it for cheap. It's either give it up and lose whatever money pumped in so far, or keep it as a liability which will incur a much heavier loss as the years go by.

The term "holding power" is often misunderstood by some investors. I think many here can afford to sacrifice S$1k as bank loan out of their monthly salaries. But just because of that reason alone, it doesn't mean one should hold on without giving the situation much thought.

If you hold on to an investment, be it property, stocks or others, because it has upside potential or has proven to appreciate in the past, then it's worth it, even though market may be bad now. But if one holds on to a very high risk investment with uncertain or most likely no return, even though he or she can well-afford it (like the $1k per month mortgage), then they must ask if it makes sense any more.
 

enjoylife77

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For investor, the greatest fear is after you have paid up your final installment, the RM$ keeps on weakening against the S$. It means that the property has been a depreciating asset over your repayment period. That's painful.
 

Tekkun

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For investor, the greatest fear is after you have paid up your final installment, the RM$ keeps on weakening against the S$. It means that the property has been a depreciating asset over your repayment period. That's painful.

And also after you paid deposit, the RM keep dropping and your purchase price keep going up. Damn.....
 

Valdez

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Indeed, everyone is spooked by what happened in recent months, even Peter lim is spooked, down scaled his mega project and changed entire master plan to buy some time. Oh...not to forget the motorcity got no news for so long that nobody remembers what it's about.
Heard some issues with motor city. Financing issues. because of plunging ringgit. May be scaled down or delayed.
 

Tekkun

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During current downturn in Malaysia, property investments are only for the cash rich.
Those who need to borrow to buy and then whine, please don't. Not worth the heartache.
Just being brutally honest here.
 

cow138

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Where there's gloom there's always opportunity.
No need to be spooked.
If already invested just ride it out and wait for opportunities. Either to take profit or to cut if really cannot tahan .

You're not alone in this. So just relax. Since you're in no need to keep piling on the bad news and outlook to increase your stress.
Johor investments typically are much slower to materialise but that doesn't mean nothing will happen.

Who knows maybe Najib will be ousted and a new coalition govt takes over and start the country back on the right path again. Projects will move and things will improve. If not then it's not much worse then now. Just enjoy what you've and don't worry yourself unnecessary.
 
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