Puteri Harbour Community

Tekkun · Oct 1, 2015

"this forum is virtually a ghost town devoid of new buyers, most of the posts here are usually owners congratulating themselves and comparing notes escaped the RM 1 million barrier, moving forward very few buyers now stating they just booked a new unit."

This forum used to be very lively. Why is it so quiet now?

Dfiris · Oct 1, 2015

Well noted, me, Singaporean learnt something from you. You r the xpert.

xebay11 said:
That is why I say Singaporeans do not understand a thing about timing, JB was pretty back water for the good part of thirty years, then from mid 2000s it started to develop, Bukit Indah etc, this was the point where property prices did escalate and some owners made money, now everyone rushed in, including developers, as there is time lag when construction projects complete, by the time the property completes, it is now in a totally different market, now the market is flooded and oversupply by huge amounts, coupled with lots of protection measures against foreigners, including having to resell back to locals, this severely handicapps any chance of good appreciation as the locals in JB, are unlike Singaporeans, they do not have the stigma or distinction of public vs private housing, hence no incentive to upgrade, they buy a house and stay there for life and enjoy other pleasures with their money. The Era of good appreciation is over in JB due to huge oversupply, if you still think there is CA, then you must be super optimistic or in self denial.

Also currently if you compare other properties selling at higher price than the one you bought, don't console yourself, new properties do command much higher premiums then old ones due to the fact that JB properties are seldom well maintained and in terms of property condition, deteriorate very fast, anyway newer developments sale have slowed down tremendously, so the higher prices are asking prices only, how much is actually transacted.

Also since prices have appreciated and foreigners have to buy RM 1 million and above, social unrest, unstable government and falling ringgit, this forum is virtually a ghost town devoid of new buyers, most of the posts here are usually owners congratulating themselves and comparing notes escaped the RM 1 million barrier, moving forward very few buyers now stating they just booked a new unit.

So please understand the concept of timing in property development, time and situations do not stand still, same even for safe haven Singapore, property prices have begun to slide and interest rates are set to increase, the whole property market will deteriorate further.

Tekkun · Oct 1, 2015

Dfiris said:
Well noted, me, Singaporean learnt something from you. You r the xpert.

The real taikor.

sgcount · Oct 2, 2015

Tekkun said:
"this forum is virtually a ghost town devoid of new buyers, most of the posts here are usually owners congratulating themselves and comparing notes escaped the RM 1 million barrier, moving forward very few buyers now stating they just booked a new unit."

This forum used to be very lively. Why is it so quiet now?

Cos likely, there are no new buyers for properties in Iskandar. And maybe those who have already bought theirs now question if they made the right move to buy into Iskandar which poses serious risks for investment.

If we refer to the 2013 and early 2014 posts, people were basically all lively and praising themselves for their choices of properties. It was basically a "herd mentality" behaviour where many rushed in but without first thinking carefully all the important questions, such as: Will there be rental? What are the chances that I can sell my home in future for profits?

Back then, the banks and Singapore government have not presented the hard facts about the huge oversupply in Iskandar, the lack of business potential and the unstable Malaysian politics/economy/social structure. So those investors who thought they could make money from Iskandar went in with their eyes half opened or totally closed.

I guess the matter was made worse because many Singaporeans probably feel deprived staying in small flats and condos. The restrictive cooling measures also prevented them from investing in Singapore properties. So the prospect of owning cheaper but bigger homes in Iskandar sounded very tempting. In fact, many crave to see some water as most of us live in a "concrete jungle".

So when Country Garden in Danga Bay marketed their units as "sea facing", I remember there was such a big hoo-hah that got everyone very interested. Some China owners even flipped their properties at RM50k to Singaporeans! Crazy when we think about it now. Local buyers paid that much thinking that the properties are like a gold mine but actually they are potential white elephants in a ghost town/ticking time bombs! Those buyers also didn't realize it's not even a sea but a "straits"....just some dirty-looking water!

Unless one has a lot of extra cash lying around with no better use for it and want to buy a property for own stay for a long time, Iskandar properties are generally very high risk. For investment, it is highly likely a continual draining of money with no capital appreciation or profitable rental in sight. It doesn't matter whether it's in PH, Medini or worse, Danga Bay.

An unbiased property agent, also an investor himself, advised: Be prepared to either make huge losses in future or be stuck with the Iskandar property for life. Even for own stay, you may not have a good or attractive exit strategy should you one day need to liquidate your property.

xebay11 · Oct 2, 2015

sgcount said:
Cos likely, there are no new buyers for properties in Iskandar. And maybe those who have already bought theirs now question if they made the right move to buy into Iskandar which poses serious risks for investment.

If we refer to the 2013 and early 2014 posts, people were basically all lively and praising themselves for their choices of properties. It was basically a "herd mentality" behaviour where many rushed in but without first thinking carefully all the important questions, such as: Will there be rental? What are the chances that I can sell my home in future for profits?

Back then, the banks and Singapore government have not presented the hard facts about the huge oversupply in Iskandar, the lack of business potential and the unstable Malaysian politics/economy/social structure. So those investors who thought they could make money from Iskandar went in with their eyes half opened or totally closed.

I guess the matter was made worse because many Singaporeans probably feel deprived staying in small flats and condos. The restrictive cooling measures also prevented them from investing in Singapore properties. So the prospect of owning cheaper but bigger homes in Iskandar sounded very tempting. In fact, many crave to see some water as most of us live in a "concrete jungle".

So when Country Garden in Danga Bay marketed their units as "sea facing", I remember there was such a big hoo-hah that got everyone very interested. Some China owners even flipped their properties at RM50k to Singaporeans! Crazy when we think about it now. Local buyers paid that much thinking that the properties are like a gold mine but actually they are potential white elephants in a ghost town/ticking time bombs! Those buyers also didn't realize it's not even a sea but a "straits"....just some dirty-looking water!

Unless one has a lot of extra cash lying around with no better use for it and want to buy a property for own stay for a long time, Iskandar properties are generally very high risk. For investment, it is highly likely a continual draining of money with no capital appreciation or profitable rental in sight. It doesn't matter whether it's in PH, Medini or worse, Danga Bay.

An unbiased property agent, also an investor himself, advised: Be prepared to either make huge losses in future or be stuck with the Iskandar property for life. Even for own stay, you may not have a good or attractive exit strategy should you one day need to liquidate your property.

The real Taikor, your points also echo my thoughts.

Just a few points to add, the RM1m barrier to entry, some MY agents or SG co-investors say "so cheap still" only about the price of a three room HDB flat, agree, but do they think that so many people in SG only own one property, so where do they have the money to buy another? Even when "so cheap".

This adds to the ghost town atmosphere in these threads now, many in the past bought under RM 1m, about the price of car only and now many simply can't afford the RM 1m properties, the higher barriers also made people like me open my eyes bigger also, or else would have gone in blind. Now I am sitting at the sides and waiting to take my pick at rentals.

enjoylife77 · Oct 4, 2015

Tekkun said:
"this forum is virtually a ghost town devoid of new buyers, most of the posts here are usually owners congratulating themselves and comparing notes escaped the RM 1 million barrier, moving forward very few buyers now stating they just booked a new unit."

This forum used to be very lively. Why is it so quiet now?

It is quiet because many forumer's profit had been wipe out as a result of strong negative currency translation.
If one day the Malaysia real estate and RM$ strengthen substantially, the bragging machine will start again.

PuteriWorld · Oct 5, 2015

enjoylife77 said:
It is quiet because many forumer's profit had been wipe out as a result of strong negative currency translation.
If one day the Malaysia real estate and RM$ strengthen substantially, the bragging machine will start again.

Wow you think too highly of Singaporeans. Most Sporeans pay a minimum deposit like me and take loans as we are not cash rich.

We are happy changing ringgit to pay off instalments @ RM 3.12 now instead of the RM 2.50 when we buy the place.

So far so good and for those who are earning Sing dollars and staying in cheap Malaysia houses at the moment, its really the time to enjoy.

xebay11 · Oct 5, 2015

PuteriWorld said:
Wow you think too highly of Singaporeans. Most Sporeans pay a minimum deposit like me and take loans as we are not cash rich.

We are happy changing ringgit to pay off instalments @ RM 3.12 now instead of the RM 2.50 when we buy the place.

So far so good and for those who are earning Sing dollars and staying in cheap Malaysia houses at the moment, its really the time to enjoy.

Please read carefully and understand what he is saying, he is stating that if you want to sell your Malaysia property, for whatever reason, either profit taking or exit, any CA will be wiped out from the ringgit depreciation. If you do not sell then what you are posting applies.

PuteriWorld · Oct 5, 2015

Yes I agree with what you are saying. My friends are still asking around for agents to offer them RM 300psf FIRESALE units from PH. Any sellers here?

xebay11 said:
Please read carefully and understand what he is saying, he is stating that if you want to sell your Malaysia property, for whatever reason, either profit taking or exit, any CA will be wiped out from the ringgit depreciation. If you do not sell then what you are posting applies.

SPH07 · Oct 5, 2015

Hello everyone

I have a situation that I wish to consult experienced investors like you.

I signed up a mortgage loan with UOB Malaysia in 2012 to take a DIBS loan of a property. BLR - 2.4%.

BLR changed from 6.6% to 6.85% in mid 2014.

The property has TOP this year and suddenly now UOB informed that they will raise the interest rates to BLR - 1.6% (i.e. 5.25%)

WTF ! This is daylight robbery!!
I challenged them on this and they gave the reason of having a provision in their standard T&C for the bank to revise their interest rate and apparently this applies to foreigner loan accounts only.

I mean, yes, there is probably some clause in all mortgage loans that allow banks to suka suka change rates, but we don't really expect them to pull this stunt.

Questions that I have:

1. Any of you have similar experiences with other banks?

2. Any of you did refinancing of your property and does the maths make sense in Malaysia? In Singapore, it makes sense in a lot of cases as the cost of refinancing is low.

3. Do you think a local Malaysian bank will also implement such a measure?
If this applies to foreigner loan accounts, I wonder if it will cascade down to all banks or it's just UOB that sucks.
I'm looking to refinance with another local bank. (Maybank or CIMB etc)

Or am I missing something? If you are a foreigner, what are the rates offered to you if you take a loan today?

Thank you for reading this

Tekkun · Oct 5, 2015

SPH07 said:
Hello everyone

I have a situation that I wish to consult experienced investors like you.

I signed up a mortgage loan with UOB Malaysia in 2012 to take a DIBS loan of a property. BLR - 2.4%.

BLR changed from 6.6% to 6.85% in mid 2014.

The property has TOP this year and suddenly now UOB informed that they will raise the interest rates to BLR - 1.6% (i.e. 5.25%)

WTF ! This is daylight robbery!!
I challenged them on this and they gave the reason of having a provision in their standard T&C for the bank to revise their interest rate and apparently this applies to foreigner loan accounts only.

I mean, yes, there is probably some clause in all mortgage loans that allow banks to suka suka change rates, but we don't really expect them to pull this stunt.

Questions that I have:

1. Any of you have similar experiences with other banks?

2. Any of you did refinancing of your property and does the maths make sense in Malaysia? In Singapore, it makes sense in a lot of cases as the cost of refinancing is low.

3. Do you think a local Malaysian bank will also implement such a measure?
If this applies to foreigner loan accounts, I wonder if it will cascade down to all banks or it's just UOB that sucks.
I'm looking to refinance with another local bank. (Maybank or CIMB etc)

Or am I missing something? If you are a foreigner, what are the rates offered to you if you take a loan today?

Thank you for reading this

Normally the banks would something offer like this:
Year 1 to Year 3 (BLR -2.4%)
Year 4 onwards (BLR -1.5%)
Some also have a cap of BLR @ 10.0% so that you are also protected. Who knows what will happen in 15 yrs time. A lot of people often forget the 2nd part of BLR.

What is important is you must see if it is a semi flexible or fully flexible loan. A fully flexible loan enable you to paydown as much as possible and the interest would be offset from the balance outstanding. So if the forex is good, you pay and pay. If forex is not good, you just pay month by month.
Not sure if there’s special clauses for foreign loans.

SPH07 · Oct 5, 2015

Tekkun said:
Normally the banks would something offer like this:
Year 1 to Year 3 (BLR -2.4%)
Year 4 onwards (BLR -1.5%)
Some also have a cap of BLR @ 10.0% so that you are also protected. Who knows what will happen in 15 yrs time. A lot of people often forget the 2nd part of BLR.

What is important is you must see if it is a semi flexible or fully flexible loan. A fully flexible loan enable you to paydown as much as possible and the interest would be offset from the balance outstanding. So if the forex is good, you pay and pay. If forex is not good, you just pay month by month.
Not sure if there’s special clauses for foreign loans.

Hi Tekkun

My loan LO states that "Interest will be charged on the FIXED Loan & Housing Loan Facility at BLR - 2.4%", with no specific reference to year 1 or year xx... so it makes it all the more perplexing.
I can prepay after vacant possession & fully redeem the loan after 3 years from 1st disbursement.

So as what you've mentioned, Year 4 onwards interest rates of BLR - 1.5% is somewhat expected eh?
If it is to be expected, then I should have nothing to be surprised/complain about...

FHBH12 · Oct 5, 2015

SPH07 said:
Hello everyone

I have a situation that I wish to consult experienced investors like you.

I signed up a mortgage loan with UOB Malaysia in 2012 to take a DIBS loan of a property. BLR - 2.4%.

BLR changed from 6.6% to 6.85% in mid 2014.

The property has TOP this year and suddenly now UOB informed that they will raise the interest rates to BLR - 1.6% (i.e. 5.25%)

WTF ! This is daylight robbery!!
I challenged them on this and they gave the reason of having a provision in their standard T&C for the bank to revise their interest rate and apparently this applies to foreigner loan accounts only.

I mean, yes, there is probably some clause in all mortgage loans that allow banks to suka suka change rates, but we don't really expect them to pull this stunt.

Questions that I have:

1. Any of you have similar experiences with other banks?

2. Any of you did refinancing of your property and does the maths make sense in Malaysia? In Singapore, it makes sense in a lot of cases as the cost of refinancing is low.

3. Do you think a local Malaysian bank will also implement such a measure?
If this applies to foreigner loan accounts, I wonder if it will cascade down to all banks or it's just UOB that sucks.
I'm looking to refinance with another local bank. (Maybank or CIMB etc)

Or am I missing something? If you are a foreigner, what are the rates offered to you if you take a loan today?

Thank you for reading this

UOB is a Singapore bank. Refinance to a Malaysia bank is safer. Do check your lock in period and any penalty for undrawn loan before refinancing.

FHBH12 · Oct 5, 2015

Tekkun said:
Normally the banks would something offer like this:
Year 1 to Year 3 (BLR -2.4%)
Year 4 onwards (BLR -1.5%)
Some also have a cap of BLR @ 10.0% so that you are also protected. Who knows what will happen in 15 yrs time. A lot of people often forget the 2nd part of BLR.

What is important is you must see if it is a semi flexible or fully flexible loan. A fully flexible loan enable you to paydown as much as possible and the interest would be offset from the balance outstanding. So if the forex is good, you pay and pay. If forex is not good, you just pay month by month.
Not sure if there’s special clauses for foreign loans.

Mine is fixed all the way. Take Islamic loan seems safer with the 10% cap.

Tekkun · Oct 6, 2015

SPH07 said:
Hi Tekkun

My loan LO states that "Interest will be charged on the FIXED Loan & Housing Loan Facility at BLR - 2.4%", with no specific reference to year 1 or year xx... so it makes it all the more perplexing.
I can prepay after vacant possession & fully redeem the loan after 3 years from 1st disbursement.

So as what you've mentioned, Year 4 onwards interest rates of BLR - 1.5% is somewhat expected eh?
If it is to be expected, then I should have nothing to be surprised/complain about...

1. Don't look at the LO. Look at the Loan agreement. Many other terms are in there.
2. If it is a fixed loan BLR-2.4% and no lock in period, then it is a bloody good offer. But I am skeptical. Normally it will have a lock in period ,more so with DIBS. I would be surprised if they do not ask you to take up mortgage insurance as well.
3. Any change of interest charged have to follow the loan agreement.

IskandarRocks · Oct 6, 2015

View from Imperia ... would be nicer without the haze.

Tekkun · Oct 6, 2015

IskandarRocks said:
View from Imperia ... would be nicer without the haze.

View attachment 24253

What you pay is what you get. :smile:

sthelen · Oct 6, 2015

Nice, from which floor?

Tekkun · Oct 6, 2015

sthelen said:
Nice, from which floor?

I think it is 28th floor or 21st floor from Imperia.

SPH07 · Oct 6, 2015

FHBH12 said:
Mine is fixed all the way. Take Islamic loan seems safer with the 10% cap.

Tekkun said:
1. Don't look at the LO. Look at the Loan agreement. Many other terms are in there.
2. If it is a fixed loan BLR-2.4% and no lock in period, then it is a bloody good offer. But I am skeptical. Normally it will have a lock in period ,more so with DIBS. I would be surprised if they do not ask you to take up mortgage insurance as well.
3. Any change of interest charged have to follow the loan agreement.

My Loan Agreement is just a standard agreement with no specific terms of my loan package.

My LO states fixed BLR-2.4% with no specific reference to year 1 to year 3 or whatsoever.. So I had to assume that it is fixed all the way too !! until this stunt comes along..
Yes there is a 3 years bonding period from 1st disbursement, so that is expiring soon, & I can refinance.

What I'm unhappy about is that it was explained by the officer to me that this is fixed BLR - 2.4% throughout the tenure.. (and BLR being the only variable here)

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