SDP Shadow Budget on MFA

[steffychun]

http://yoursdp.org/images/pdf/budget...udget-2012.pdf

On Foreign Affairs

"...It will develop a Singapore Plan aimed at improving international relations through diplomacy and friendship. A more proactive approach to world affairs should be substituted for the climate of tension and mistrust that now characterises our foreign policy. Allocations to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs will expand our international outreach and build stronger ties in the community of nations."

Are you telling me Singapore is Iran?

[mesmerised]

http://yoursdp.org/images/pdf/budget...udget-2012.pdf

On Foreign Affairs

"...It will develop a Singapore Plan aimed at improving international relations through diplomacy and friendship. A more proactive approach to world affairs should be substituted for the climate of tension and mistrust that now characterises our foreign policy. Allocations to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs will expand our international outreach and build stronger ties in the community of nations."

Are you telling me Singapore is Iran?

These fellas can't even build friendship with the small time political parties in Singapore. But have audacity to tell MFA how it should practice diplomacy and build relationships in the international community.

[Seriusly]

SDP's shadow budget is an intellectual exercise in the art of being futile.

[steffychun]

Yeah and their fantasy of NS for one year. I mean, yes NS is a strain but realistically not possible.

[cunnilaubu]

Yeah and their fantasy of NS for one year. I mean, yes NS is a strain but realistically not possible.

Taiwan is one year, and they faced a high threat than Sinkiland.

[steffychun]

Taiwan is one year, and they faced a high threat than Sinkiland.

The logic is still not clear. One year to train officers and soliders? No country commissions officers in one year

[mesmerised]

The logic is still not clear. One year to train officers and soliders? No country commissions officers in one year

The logic?

We cannot win a war against anybody!
Our people will not fight when called upon to do so!!
Therefore, anything we do to prepare for war is futile!!!

So much for SDP's faith in our people and their conviction to stand up to defend the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Singapore.

[zhihau]

The logic is still not clear... No country commissions officers in one year

to be honest, me don't trust Sinkie NSF commissioned ocifers too!
soldiers need to learn to shoot straight.
NCOs need to be able to shoot straight and be able to lead.
Officers need to be able to inspire, lead & command, and be able to shoot straight.
IMHO, the officers should rightfully be a core group of tarn jiak lao peng, not some 乳臭未干 punks.

[Varuna]

The logic is still not clear. One year to train officers and soliders? No country commissions officers in one year

Everything is possible here as long as you have the toilet paper. We do churn out young paper generals.

[mesmerised]

Everything is possible here as long as you have the toilet paper. We do churn out young paper generals.

The logic is:
We are desperate to raise an Army
Our people don't think being in the Army is worthwhile
Therefore, keep it short, rigorous and rewarding!

[Ramseth]

Except the possibility of RSAF inflicting some damage to KL or Jakarta, there's no possibility of Singapore winning any land or sea war, whether invading or invaded against Malaysia or Indonesia. Hello dear all, history had already proved, geography had already proved, Japan had already proved, Singapore isn't an unsinkable aircraft carrier but an indefensible island if the aggressor is from or in control of Malaysia or Indonesia unless we have naval and aerial power on the scale of at least UK. Do we? Emphatically no. Mindef spends most of its budget on torturing NSmen to make up the numbers to warrant promotion of colonels and generals.

Where else in the world, can you find so many colonels and generals out of just a 3-million citizenry? Not even Israel with a 6-million citizenry and engulfed in war.

[mesmerised]

So, when the Tsunami of 2004 came in, our colonels and generals were not at hand to at least give some immediate assistance until the US and all the regional powers decided to come in?

The major powers will come to your aid when they see that you are willing to invest in your own defense and dare to put the lives of your soldiers in the line of danger.

There is not a single armed forces in our region that the West can depend on to deliver things other than the SAF. The rest are all highly corrupt, ill- equipped and rely on attrition warfare to overcome any emergency situation. Look at how screwed up the hostage rescue of the tourists in Phillipines turned out. I think any one of our NS Units could have done better!

[cunnilaubu]

IMHO, the officers should rightfully be a core group of tarn jiak lao peng, not some 乳臭未干 punks.

Agreed, a core group of regulars and reduced NS to one year - 3 months BMT, 3 months vocational training and 6 months to put what was learned into practice.

[Char_Azn]

Except the possibility of RSAF inflicting some damage to KL or Jakarta, there's no possibility of Singapore winning any land or sea war, whether invading or invaded against Malaysia or Indonesia. Hello dear all, history had already proved, geography had already proved, Japan had already proved, Singapore isn't an unsinkable aircraft carrier but an indefensible island if the aggressor is from or in control of Malaysia or Indonesia unless we have naval and aerial power on the scale of at least UK. Do we? Emphatically no. Mindef spends most of its budget on torturing NSmen to make up the numbers to warrant promotion of colonels and generals.

Where else in the world, can you find so many colonels and generals out of just a 3-million citizenry? Not even Israel with a 6-million citizenry and engulfed in war.

Uncle, U serve the Police for too long liao lah, they never teach U about Army doctrine. Most pple in the army will tell you the same thing, the point isn't to beat Malaysia and conquer the peninsula, the point is to hold out long enough that they give up or UN intervention kicks in. That is pretty much achievable. A couple of reasons

1)We have more fighter planes then Indon and Malaysia COMBINED, pretty much ensuring air superiority

2)Thanks to NS, we are able to mobilize more troops and better trained personal then Malaysia in very short notice. If war were to break out tomorrow, we can actually mobilize more fighting troops then Malaysia. There is a good reason why SAF conduct mobilization exercises for reservist personal.

3)We have more armored vehicles and Artillery then Malaysia.

4)Our military hardware is overall much more advanced then Malaysia

Yes over the longer term Malaysia will be able to conscript more men and eventually overwhelm us in sheer numbers but we're taking about months of fighting before they can come up with enough numbers and that too mostly untrained fighters. If the recent US war against terrorism is any indication, the ratio needed is about 10:1. Let's assume out men our not that well trained, it will still be at a ratio of at least 3:1 vs untrained personal. Learning to shoot with a rifle is easy however anyone who have been through NS can tell you that being a soldier involves a lot more then just hitting a target at 100-300m. Tactical movement, firing movement, field craft, etc are very important aspect of being effective on the battle field. U need quite a bit of training to be able to fight effectively as a unit is just as important that's why they have NS and reservist training to ensure those who can fight have the skills still fresh in their minds.

The reason why Mindef spend so much money is to ensure our technology and equipment are far superior to the Malaysians so that if war really breaks out, we have a fighting chance. There is no such thing as a sure win but having a fighting chance is better then having none at all.

[zhihau]

There is no such thing as a sure win but having a fighting chance is better then having none at all.

oh yah hor... then what happens if our immediate neighbors were at a prolonged war with each other but didn't declare war at us? I mean, when we play war gaming, we assume any possible scenario right? then nothing comes into our territory, food, raw material, etc... do we sit one corner and suck thumb?

[byleftcan]

The reason why Mindef spend so much money is to ensure our technology and equipment are far superior to the Malaysians so that if war really breaks out, we have a fighting chance. There is no such thing as a sure win but having a fighting chance is better then having none at all.

You sound belligerent! Sometimes too much sabre rattling makes it worse for regional stability. Just have the sabre shiny and sharp, but no need rattle it.

[mesmerised]

You sound belligerent! Sometimes too much sabre rattling makes it worse for regional stability. Just have the sabre shiny and sharp, but no need rattle it.

Yes. No need to rattle. Just make sure our enemies know we have a shiny and sharp sabre. And that we dare to use it when our national interests compel us to take action.

As a country that has been at peace for 50 years, we can be proud that we didn't sit back and wait for war to come before building our armed forces. Still, there is a limit to how much we can grow our military forces . High Tech weaponary only underscores the acute shortage of manpower we have . And increasingly, high tech weapon systems will require immense expenditures to just keep them in stockpile .

Our long term solution still lies with building peaceful relations and mutual interdependence amongst all south east Asian nations . Even then, we can never follow the footsteps of NZ or Taiwan in scrapping conscription or hoping that some world power will take our side in any conflict .

[Char_Azn]

oh yah hor... then what happens if our immediate neighbors were at a prolonged war with each other but didn't declare war at us? I mean, when we play war gaming, we assume any possible scenario right? then nothing comes into our territory, food, raw material, etc... do we sit one corner and suck thumb?

There's good reason why the government is so obsess with becoming self sufficient when it comes to water supply. Matland have been threatening to turn off the taps since as long as I can remember. That would actually be a reason to fight if we cannot get alternative supply. SG government stockpile some of the essentials so we probably won't die out immediately but we wont last for long either.

At the end of the day the SAF's main duty is to scare the neighbors enough so they won't bully us too much. SDP keep taking for granted that relationship with Matland would always be good. They forgot about the days of Mathatir when even if you try to be nice to them, they bite U back. I still remember the MadHatter inceding so much hatred for Singaporeans during the water and bridge talks they burn our flags across the causeway. Only by exposing his lies by publishing the official letters did the bullshit stopped. It takes 2 hands to clap in any relationship. It was only after Mathatir retired that our relationship improved so much.

U cannot build up your military capabilities in a single day. It takes years of work. If we start building an army only when signs of trouble appears, its already too late

[zhihau]

If we start building an army only when signs of trouble appears, its already too late

me understand the meaning of 养兵千日, but have you understood my question?

[Char_Azn]

me understand the meaning of 养兵千日, but have you understood my question?

If my reply didn't answer your question then the No, No idea what U were asking