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mpan12

Alfrescian
Loyal
No wonder Iskandar was developed.... Hahaha.. Wonder if any of the foreigners' investments got siphoned into 1MDB!

I find the RM1mil minimum sum for foreigners to buy properties to be the most ridiculous form of cooling measure. It went up from RM500k previously.

I can understand if they reduce bank's lending to borrowers or impose higher taxes for buying or selling. But to impose such a minimum sum rule... it is obvious what they are trying to do.

Is there any other country that uses such a scheme to lock up foreigner's money in the country? I can't think of any at the moment.
 

kawan2sgmy

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Loyal
is there any possibility that JB revert to previous RM500K? I think they make a lot of profit if increase to RM1mil, the land is dirt cheap except for the basic construction cost. If only they do so, singaporeans will buy, even at prices of RM600K, it's still ok.

No wonder Iskandar was developed.... Hahaha.. Wonder if any of the foreigners' investments got siphoned into 1MDB!

I find the RM1mil minimum sum for foreigners to buy properties to be the most ridiculous form of cooling measure. It went up from RM500k previously.

I can understand if they reduce bank's lending to borrowers or impose higher taxes for buying or selling. But to impose such a minimum sum rule... it is obvious what they are trying to do.

Is there any other country that uses such a scheme to lock up foreigner's money in the country? I can't think of any at the moment.
 

mpan12

Alfrescian
Loyal
is there any possibility that JB revert to previous RM500K? I think they make a lot of profit if increase to RM1mil, the land is dirt cheap except for the basic construction cost. If only they do so, singaporeans will buy, even at prices of RM600K, it's still ok.

But why should they revert lower? If anything, it should be higher. Even at RM700k to RM1mil, you see so many Singaporeans blindly bought in 2013.

When it was at RM500k, developers had no choice but to price their properties higher also to enable foreigners to buy.

Those who bought their properties between RM500k and RM1mil thought they were safe from the restriction.... until the new RM1mil rule came out! Now, many of them are probably anxious, worried and frustrated. Their cash gets stuck with little or no chance of taking back almost forever.

Some may not feel it yet because their properties are still under construction. When it is completed and they can't get out of the market but still have to pay loans and other expenses, that's when the pain comes in.
 

snowbird

Alfrescian
Loyal
is there any possibility that JB revert to previous RM500K? I think they make a lot of profit if increase to RM1mil, the land is dirt cheap except for the basic construction cost. If only they do so, singaporeans will buy, even at prices of RM600K, it's still ok.

The RM1 mil thingy was one of the measures introduced to prevent foreigners from snapping up properties, chasing up property prices until the locals, especially the middle income group, cannot afford anymore.
Now the locals have a wide range of properties from low cost housing up to RM1 mil to choose from.
No way it can be reverted.
 

mpan12

Alfrescian
Loyal
The RM1 mil thingy was one of the measures introduced to prevent foreigners from snapping up properties, chasing up property prices until the locals, especially the middle income group, cannot afford anymore.
Now the locals have a wide range of properties from low cost housing up to RM1 mil to choose from.
No way it can be reverted.

Most locals can't even afford the kind of prices foreigners paid for Iskandar properties, especially those condos at RM500k and above.

There are many ways to cool the market. For eg, banks can control % of loan, higher taxes can be imposed, all these will make it less attractive for foreigners to get in.

But to impose price restrictions, such as RM1mil for foreigners, that's absurd. As far as I can see, they try to lock up the money inside the country. It's not fair to the investors.

Actually, it doesn't just affect foreigners. They also lock up the money of their richer Malaysians who bought all these high price properties. The commoners can't afford to buy them. Only way is to try to sell to other foreigners. But if it's below RM1mil, they can't touch. So sell to who?

Can only suck thumb. Your cash is stuck in the property, and you jolly well pay your taxes every year. How to get out? No way liao! Doomz....

PAP should learn this new cunning trick from Malaysia! Sure HUAT even more!
 

cow138

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Loyal
Agree that even at current prices, it's difficult for many Johor folks. But prices are gradually moving up regardless..
 

Tekkun

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Loyal
Agree that even at current prices, it's difficult for many Johor folks. But prices are gradually moving up regardless..

1. All projects in Iskandar that had been approved before the implementation date, developers are allowed to sell below RM1m to foreigners. But does it affect subsale, not too sure of it.

2. Medini does not have this RM1m rule. Medini is 3x Singapore size, so there will be many many condos coming up and all these are approved much earlier. Buying and selling amongst foreigners at any price is not a problem. I suspect the State Government is trying to designate Medini as a international zone for foreigners. That's why this RM1m came in as a indirect policy. There's no fencing but the incentive is free buy and sell within Medini.

3. I think investment strategywise, it is either you buy the best or you don't at all. There's no room for middle players. Niche properties will always have buyers who are prepared to pay high prices. The middle players will have to fight it out among themselves as it is more affordable bothways.
 

mpan12

Alfrescian
Loyal
1. All projects in Iskandar that had been approved before the implementation date, developers are allowed to sell below RM1m to foreigners. But does it affect subsale, not too sure of it.

2. Medini does not have this RM1m rule. Medini is 3x Singapore size, so there will be many many condos coming up and all these are approved much earlier. Buying and selling amongst foreigners at any price is not a problem. I suspect the State Government is trying to designate Medini as a international zone for foreigners. That's why this RM1m came in as a indirect policy. There's no fencing but the incentive is free buy and sell within Medini.

3. I think investment strategywise, it is either you buy the best or you don't at all. There's no room for middle players. Niche properties will always have buyers who are prepared to pay high prices. The middle players will have to fight it out among themselves as it is more affordable bothways.

For 1, after the implementation date, developers have no choice right? This will only encourage pricing of new condos to be as high as possible to allow and attract foreigners to buy. That's another shortcoming of the restriction. It artificially inflates pricing. As far as subsale is concerned, it definitely will be affected. Sellers can consider only a restricted group of buyers they can sell to.

For 2, even though there is no RM1mil restriction, I feel the penalty paid by buyers is that all the condos are of leasehold type. Although there is still a lot of lease remaining, the psychology of future buyers may be stronger than any reasoning. For eg, if many buyers are insistent or have the perception that in Malaysia, it is wise to buy only freehold, no matter how a seller convinces them that there is still 90 years lease left in the property, no one will buy it.

Another penalty is the fact that Medini is still very much undeveloped but prices are way overpriced for the properties' worth. We can only see how long they will be sustainable.

Also, I understand that all the incentives that Medini buyers enjoy now (like no RGPT) will last only up to 2025? I'm not sure about this. Got to check it out. But I vaguely recall reading something like this. Which means by then, the authority can impose more restrictions to buyers?

Given so much land available in Medini and no doubt more condos to sprout up in future, I don't think it will be easy for foreign buyers to sell to other new foreign buyers. If I am a new buyer, definitely my first choice is to look at newer properties. I will be spoilt for choices. Why should I buy from subsale? That should be another concern for buyers in Medini. The timeline for development in Medini is usually quoted as 10-15 years. One bank in its report even gave a 15-20 years time frame. That's way too long for me to go in as an investor. Opportunity cost and risks are too high.

For 3, I agree and disagree about only buying the best. I disagree because I feel buying properties should be attractive to a range of buyers. Some can buy cheaper properties, some more high end ones. It all depends on their aim and finances.

What we want is an asset. Whether you use it for your own purpose or buying it solely for investment is another matter. But it generally should not make you lose money along the way. This is the part where I also agree with the need to get the best, as you said.

Now that's where the problem of Iskandar lies. Cos rental and resale are very much an untested market there. Like it or not, whether those smooth-talking salesmen in Malaysian property talks tell you Iskandar property prices will "SURGE" in 10 years time, you have to accept that there will be a huge oversupply of properties coming up.

If you have money to splurge, and you don't even need to think about getting it back, you are probably fine in this whole game. Just buy to enjoy and relax. (Not many are in this category though.)

But rich or not, I always feel when one buys properties, they should make money along the way. If the buyers' money is stuck in the property and difficult to offload when they need to, like what we are seeing now and for many years to come in Iskandar, then to me that's a high risk, negative returns liability.
 

Tekkun

Alfrescian
Loyal
Anyway, Petronas, despite cost cutting by reducing capital expenditure, is already considering retrenching 51,000 people. https://www.malaysiakini.com/news/327674

Matter of correction:

The truth is:

Retrenching 51,000 people and some of its 51,000 employees are totally 2 different thing.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Petroliam Nasional Bhd (Petronas) is considering retrenching some of its 51,000-strong staff as one of its options as the Malaysian state-owned oil company confronts the realities of low oil prices

https://www.malaysiakini.com/news/327674
 
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Tekkun

Alfrescian
Loyal
For 1, after the implementation date, developers have no choice right? This will only encourage pricing of new condos to be as high as possible to allow and attract foreigners to buy. That's another shortcoming of the restriction. It artificially inflates pricing. As far as subsale is concerned, it definitely will be affected. Sellers can consider only a restricted group of buyers they can sell to.

For 2, even though there is no RM1mil restriction, I feel the penalty paid by buyers is that all the condos are of leasehold type. Although there is still a lot of lease remaining, the psychology of future buyers may be stronger than any reasoning. For eg, if many buyers are insistent or have the perception that in Malaysia, it is wise to buy only freehold, no matter how a seller convinces them that there is still 90 years lease left in the property, no one will buy it.

Another penalty is the fact that Medini is still very much undeveloped but prices are way overpriced for the properties' worth. We can only see how long they will be sustainable.

Also, I understand that all the incentives that Medini buyers enjoy now (like no RGPT) will last only up to 2025? I'm not sure about this. Got to check it out. But I vaguely recall reading something like this. Which means by then, the authority can impose more restrictions to buyers?

Given so much land available in Medini and no doubt more condos to sprout up in future, I don't think it will be easy for foreign buyers to sell to other new foreign buyers. If I am a new buyer, definitely my first choice is to look at newer properties. I will be spoilt for choices. Why should I buy from subsale? That should be another concern for buyers in Medini. The timeline for development in Medini is usually quoted as 10-15 years. One bank in its report even gave a 15-20 years time frame. That's way too long for me to go in as an investor. Opportunity cost and risks are too high.

For 3, I agree and disagree about only buying the best. I disagree because I feel buying properties should be attractive to a range of buyers. Some can buy cheaper properties, some more high end ones. It all depends on their aim and finances.

What we want is an asset. Whether you use it for your own purpose or buying it solely for investment is another matter. But it generally should not make you lose money along the way. This is the part where I also agree with the need to get the best, as you said.

Now that's where the problem of Iskandar lies. Cos rental and resale are very much an untested market there. Like it or not, whether those smooth-talking salesmen in Malaysian property talks tell you Iskandar property prices will "SURGE" in 10 years time, you have to accept that there will be a huge oversupply of properties coming up.

If you have money to splurge, and you don't even need to think about getting it back, you are probably fine in this whole game. Just buy to enjoy and relax. (Not many are in this category though.)

But rich or not, I always feel when one buys properties, they should make money along the way. If the buyers' money is stuck in the property and difficult to offload when they need to, like what we are seeing now and for many years to come in Iskandar, then to me that's a high risk, negative returns liability.

Good input from your side. Unfortunately many investors go in with eyes closed. It is too late for existing buyers but hopefully for new buyers, they know how to make informed decisions.

It has nothing to do with rich or poor. The basics of investing or buying a home is the same. We all do not want to lose money.

I reiterate what I had been saying all these while. Buy Freehold, Buy limited Land.
When we buy a property, we do not just buy the bricks and mortar, we buy the surroundings. We buy the landscape. Landscape can change, seascape will not. We buy the reason why people want to buy it. I also know why leasehold could be a potential problem as approvals is needed as a condition precedent for any sub sale. That is where new policies can be imposed before you can get approval.

To get involved in Iskandar, trust no one. Not even the developer, salesman or kaypo people like myself. Don't even trust your wife (she might get influenced by her mahjong kakis) Only only trust your own eyes and judgement.

I know I am biased when I said this but for me Puteri Harbour fits the bill.
 

winners

Alfrescian
Loyal
For 1, after the implementation date, developers have no choice right? This will only encourage pricing of new condos to be as high as possible to allow and attract foreigners to buy. That's another shortcoming of the restriction. It artificially inflates pricing. As far as subsale is concerned, it definitely will be affected. Sellers can consider only a restricted group of buyers they can sell to.

All subsales are currently under the RM1m restriction. All the sales agents whom I'd contacted so far had told me so.

For 2, even though there is no RM1mil restriction, I feel the penalty paid by buyers is that all the condos are of leasehold type. Although there is still a lot of lease remaining, the psychology of future buyers may be stronger than any reasoning. For eg, if many buyers are insistent or have the perception that in Malaysia, it is wise to buy only freehold, no matter how a seller convinces them that there is still 90 years lease left in the property, no one will buy it.

Another penalty is the fact that Medini is still very much undeveloped but prices are way overpriced for the properties' worth. We can only see how long they will be sustainable.

There is also the Foreigners Levy, which is RM20k or 2% of SPA price, whichever is higher.
.......................
 

mpan12

Alfrescian
Loyal
Good input from your side. Unfortunately many investors go in with eyes closed. It is too late for existing buyers but hopefully for new buyers, they know how to make informed decisions.

It has nothing to do with rich or poor. The basics of investing or buying a home is the same. We all do not want to lose money.

I reiterate what I had been saying all these while. Buy Freehold, Buy limited Land.
When we buy a property, we do not just buy the bricks and mortar, we buy the surroundings. We buy the landscape. Landscape can change, seascape will not. We buy the reason why people want to buy it. I also know why leasehold could be a potential problem as approvals is needed as a condition precedent for any sub sale. That is where new policies can be imposed before you can get approval.

To get involved in Iskandar, trust no one. Not even the developer, salesman or kaypo people like myself. Don't even trust your wife (she might get influenced by her mahjong kakis) Only only trust your own eyes and judgement.

I know I am biased when I said this but for me Puteri Harbour fits the bill.

Yes, definitely trust no one when buying Iskandar properties! One must make his or her own judgements. This is lacking in many buyers I see, based on their thought processes and the way they talk.

I've always wondered, is PH part of Medini? They are close to each other. So if it is not, does it mean to sell to foreigners, the property must be at least RM1mil?

The part about "landscape can change, seascape cannot", I think it applies very well to Nusajaya, Medini and PH side. There is a lot of empty land still to be developed in Iskandar. That's the problem.

For an area like Medini with so much land available and oversupply coming up, I'd like to have a "safety margin" of at least 50% discount from the prices sold. There's a huge risk I cannot find tenants or sell it away so this has to be taken into account.

In other words, I won't pay a crazy price of RM800 psf for a condo there (which many did!). I would discount it to at least RM400psf before considering. Lower the better. But at least 1/2 of those prices which current buyers paid. So unless prices drop to much lower, I doubt many new buyers will come in like in 2013. Many of those buyers back then were blinded by greed and herd mentality.

If a general worker in Iskandar earns RM3k a month, how do you expect him or her to rent your expensive condo at RM2.5k to Rm3k a month? This is something many landlords forget. There are many workers, I believe, who earn less than that. How to rent?

That is precisely the risk I have been talking about all along. You think there are so many professionals or towkays earning RM30k and above who want to rent from you? They are also spoilt for choices and may not consider your home. Johor is big. Lots of properties all over.
 

Tekkun

Alfrescian
Loyal
Yes, definitely trust no one when buying Iskandar properties! One must make his or her own judgements. This is lacking in many buyers I see, based on their thought processes and the way they talk.

I've always wondered, is PH part of Medini? They are close to each other. So if it is not, does it mean to sell to foreigners, the property must be at least RM1mil?

The part about "landscape can change, seascape cannot", I think it applies very well to Nusajaya, Medini and PH side. There is a lot of empty land still to be developed in Iskandar. That's the problem.

For an area like Medini with so much land available and oversupply coming up, I'd like to have a "safety margin" of at least 50% discount from the prices sold. There's a huge risk I cannot find tenants or sell it away so this has to be taken into account.

In other words, I won't pay a crazy price of RM800 psf for a condo there (which many did!). I would discount it to at least RM400psf before considering. Lower the better. But at least 1/2 of those prices which current buyers paid. So unless prices drop to much lower, I doubt many new buyers will come in like in 2013. Many of those buyers back then were blinded by greed and herd mentality.

If a general worker in Iskandar earns RM3k a month, how do you expect him or her to rent your expensive condo at RM2.5k to Rm3k a month? This is something many landlords forget. There are many workers, I believe, who earn less than that. How to rent?

That is precisely the risk I have been talking about all along. You think there are so many professionals or towkays earning RM30k and above who want to rent from you? They are also spoilt for choices and may not consider your home. Johor is big. Lots of properties all over.

PH is developed by UEM Sunrise. Medini is by Medini Iskandar Malaysia. Different developers, different incentives. RM1m restriction is applicable to PH. But PH is so expensive, most of its properties are above RM1m, save for those smaller 1 room units. So this limit doesn't really affect PH generally.

Normal workers would not rent in Medini. Even if they do, they would share, contributing RM1k or less for each room.
Interestingly enough, I think the best part of the entire Medini is at Sunway Iskandar. Maybe Sunway is famous for township building, not just stand alone projects. But that is a long term outing.
 
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rotikok

Alfrescian
Loyal
Actually, it doesn't just affect foreigners. They also lock up the money of their richer Malaysians who bought all these high price properties. The commoners can't afford to buy them. Only way is to try to sell to other foreigners. But if it's below RM1mil, they can't touch. So sell to who?

I heard from others, if those 900k ppty singaporean really want to buy, they will just buy it at a million.
 

westman

Alfrescian
Loyal
1. All projects in Iskandar that had been approved before the implementation date, developers are allowed to sell below RM1m to foreigners. But does it affect subsale, not too sure of it.

2. Medini does not have this RM1m rule. Medini is 3x Singapore size, so there will be many many condos coming up and all these are approved much earlier. Buying and selling amongst foreigners at any price is not a problem. I suspect the State Government is trying to designate Medini as a international zone for foreigners. That's why this RM1m came in as a indirect policy. There's no fencing but the incentive is free buy and sell within Medini.

3. I think investment strategywise, it is either you buy the best or you don't at all. There's no room for middle players. Niche properties will always have buyers who are prepared to pay high prices. The middle players will have to fight it out among themselves as it is more affordable bothways.

Bro..are you sure Medini is 3x Singapore size?
 
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