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Hidden Debt of Europe

neddy

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Where were all these "experts" when the Euro was being touted as the currency to replace the USD when the sub prime crisis shit hit the fan in 2007.

The world of journalism is full of monday morning quarterbacks. At the end of the day, they're no better than a bunch of kids in an internet forum when it comes to predictions.

1. There is a reason why some EU countries chose to stay away from the Euro.

2. Unfortunately, Euro creators are now running Greece and Italy. More bad news for 2012 Euro.

3. Journos are too busy chasing news than to worry about analysis and predictions. Those that are good that that sort of work have retired or are retiring (in Aust.).They are not being replaced because they cannot attract readership/eyeballs.

The banks, media and governments are being controlled by a small group of people and it is now that our eyes are opened. Singapore's leaders are in cahoots too as we all know, one being LKY's appointments as an international advisor to corporations such as JP Morgan, Total, DaimlerChrysler, etc.

Ever wonder why the UK PM vetos the latest EU vote? (The City of London is alive !!!)
Why I do not buy Silver? Why HKCE put its foot in the Silver market.
Who decides on Daily Gold prices?
Lots of things happen in the Square Mile..... Just like the $Vatican$ in Rome. London has its oddity.

US Presidential Election.
US Treasurer.
Who control the US government?

"Give me control over a nation's currency and I don't care who makes the laws."
 
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Windsor

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Cracks Start To Appear In EU Finance Pact

5:50pm UK, Thursday December 15, 2011

The Czech Republic and Hungary have said they will not sign the new European Union pact unless tax harmonisation plans are dropped. The announcement comes less than one week after the EU summit hailed as bringing unity to all but one of its member nations.

In Brussels, 26 of the 27 members of the EU backed new fiscal rules to keep budgets in line, with only the UK abstaining.

Neither Hungary nor the Czech Republic uses the euro, and tax harmonisation plans were not explicitly discussed as part of the changes at the summit. Nonetheless Hungarian prime minister Viktor Orban and his Czech counterpart Petr Necas said they wanted to take active roles in negotiations, adding they are concerned the pact may take away their independence on tax policy.

Mr Necas said: "We support the solutions which result in the stabilisation of the eurozone. "But we are convinced that tax harmonisation would not mean anything good for us."

Stock markets dipped following the news, but the major European indices remained in positive territory.Sky's economics editor Ed Conway said the announcements from Budapest and Prague underlined the fact that Britain was not the only nation uncomfortable with the treaty - and that it is not a done deal yet.

"It's not just those two countries that have issues with it," he said. "Whether you look across at Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Ireland - a number of countries' representatives have gone back to their parliaments and have examined what's in front of them and have said they're not 100% pleased with what they've signed up to in some cases."

Negotiations are due to continue until March, with the next EU summit expected at the end of January or early February.

Meanwhile, the eurozone is likely to slip back into recession next year, according to a report by Ernst & Young. The audit firm said it expects the economies of the 17 member countries to shrink in the first two quarters of 2012. The report predicts growth of just 0.1% for the whole of the year and warns unemployment in the eurozone is unlikely to fall below 10% before 2015.


The warning was backed up by economic data from Markit suggesting output continued to contract across the 17-nation bloc over the past month. Although the headline Purchasing Managers Index (PMI) figure rose slightly, at 47.9 it remained below 50 which separates economic growth from a slowdown. The survey compiler said the slight improvement was down to strength in France and Germany, with peripheral eurozone economies still struggling.

More at http://news.sky.com/home/business/article/16130705
 

Windsor

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‘Mother of all bank runs’ has already begun in eurozone
Dec 12, 2011

Uncertainty over the future of the eurozone runs high, despite last week’s high-on-hot-air agreement on moving towards greater fiscal union. And that uncertainty is driving European banks into a severe liquidity crunch that could cause the region’s entire banking system to collapse, analysts fear.

The early warning signs of such a liquidity seizure are already showing up in the troubles that European banks face in raising short-term liquidity. French, Italian and Spanish banks have run out of collateral (typically US Treasures) that they put up to finance short-term loans, and have been forced to pledge their gold reserves in order to secure dollar funding, reports The Telegraph.

Some European banks have resorted to selling foreign assets to meet their capital requirements; others have cut back on their lending to industry. Money is to the economy what blood is to the human body. So long as both are circulating smoothly, they’re doing fine. But when liquidity starts to choke in the veins of the economy, as is happening now, it points to a coming seizure. Which is the worry that keeps bankers and analysts up at night these days.

The “collateral crunch” has come about because the banks’ traditional means of raising funds are running dry as investors, worried about the survival of the euro, are pulling out their savings or are easing up bank bond purchase. Essentially, what this signals is that investors are beginning to lose their faith in the banking system, and have begun a ‘bank run’ that could snowball into a full-blown crisis.

Even the market for short-term interbank lending is seizing up. The Economist reports that US money-market funds have reduced their lendings to European banks by more than 40 percent in the past six months.

According to rating agency Fitch, even European money markets funds are reducing their exposure to banks in France, Italy and Spain. Just last week, rating agency Moody’s raised the red flag over French banks, cutting their debt ratings citing the heightened difficulties that the banks faced in raising funding and the worsening economic outlook. “Liquidity and funding conditions have deteriorated significantly,” Moody’s said.

In September, French banks witnessed a flight of capital to the tune of 100 billion euro after US money-market funds, wary of French banks’ exposure to peripheral economies and to Italy, turned off the liquidity tap. Also last week, the European Banking Authority (EBA) said that the region’s banks must raise 114.7 billion euro in extra to withstand the eurozone debt crisis. The undercurrent of nervousness about the euro, and the lingering risk that one or more countries may yet opt out of the eurozone, has additionally prompted a flight of capital away from peripheral southern European economies, which could trigger a larger bank run.

Bloomberg reports that European companies have initiated contingency plans in the event of an unravelling of the euro. Among the measures they’ve set in motion: moving money out of Spain and into Germany, transferring their headquarters from southern Europe to the north; cutting investments; and, in extreme cases, going out of business.

One CEO quoted in the report said he did not “trust Spain will remain in the eurozone… We moved our cash and deposits (from Madrid) to Germany because Spain will come back to the peseta.”


Others too have sighted similar symptoms of capital flight. “Corporates are withdrawing deposits from banks in Spain, Italy, France and Belgium,” a Citigroup analyst wrote in a recent research report. “This is a worrying development.”

What is the risk from a prolonged liquidity crunch? The first is that banks could turn off their own lending tap, which could affect businesses and borrowers and trigger a downward spiral in the economy. Bad as it is, the second prospect is rather more catastrophic: a bank failure, speculation about which abounds in the market, could trigger panic of the sort we saw in 2008.

Human psychology could accentuate that problem: the fear that a bank could go under will likely trigger a stampeding by investors to pull out their money. Even if the bank was not initially at risk, a bank run of this sort, when investors pull out their money simultaneously, is more likely to tip it over.

Likewise, market panic triggered by this collateral crunch would also suck out the air of liquidity in markets around the world as investors flock to safe havens. To an Indian economy that is already in hot water, that could mean a sharper fall in the rupee as foreign investors, already disenchanted with India, head for the door.

http://www.firstpost.com/world/mother-of-all-bank-runs-has-already-begun-in-eurozone-154124.html

Sounds gloomy whichever way we look at it. How this affects us is hard to tell, but definitely in one way or another it will.
 

Windsor

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Asset
French credit downgrade could come 'within days'

Standard and Poor's is expected to cut France's triple A credit rating 'within days'

France could be stripped of its triple-A credit rating before Christmas, raising new doubts about the survival of the euro, analysts have predicted.


Standard & Poor's – one of the three top rating agencies – is expected to cut France's rating within days, in a move that would weaken its ability to raise funds on financial markets. The move would raise doubts over the future of the single currency at a time when questions abound as to whether the deal thrashed out in Brussels represents the breakthrough hoped for in advance of the summit. Andrew Tyrie, chairman of the Commons Treasury select committee, raised the spectre of Greece leaving the eurozone, saying it was unlikely Athens could afford to pay its way if it stayed in the zone.

"Few people believe that Greece can remain solvent within the eurozone," he said. "Should Greece have to leave, the recapitalisation of a number of continental banks would be necessary."


David Cameron and George Osborne have stressed that their top priority is for the eurozone to survive the crisis because the consequences of a disorderly breakup would be devastating for the UK as well as the European economies. However, most Tory MPs now doubt that it can survive in its current form. Bill Cash, the veteran Eurosceptic MP, said: "The entire European Union project is unravelling as the euro itself unravels."


The imminence of a ratings decision by S&P may explain why France has sought to deflect attention by lashing out against Britain, claiming the UK's financial position is weaker than its own. Last week the Bank of France suggested the credit rating agencies train their fire on London, even though there seems no imminent danger of Britain losing its premier rating.


After days of angry exchanges between Paris and London, both sides called for a ceasefire. A senior British diplomatic source said: "I hope all this calms down soon, as it is not in anyone's interest for it to continue. That, I believe, is why the French prime minister called Nick Clegg on Friday afternoon [to build bridges]."


The diplomat added: "We can only guess that what's behind it is that they're so nervous about losing the triple-A rating, nervous not just for political and economic reasons, but because there's an election coming up."


Analysts said that if France's rating was slashed its borrowing costs would rise, making it more expensive for Paris to refinance its debt burden in the new year. A downgrade would also hit France's ability to contribute to the European financial stability facility, set up by members of the eurozone to combat the eurozone's sovereign debt crisis, and provide emergency funding. Traders in London said the price France has to pay to borrow has already risen, indicating that markets have partially discounted the possibility of a lower credit rating.


France has to pay more to borrow relative to fellow triple-A rated Germany: when France borrows over 10 years it pays an interest rate that is at least a percentage point higher than what Berlin pays.
One analyst said: "The overall perception is that French finances are weaker than Germany's and this imposes significant extra costs on France."


Adding together repayments of existing debt, interest owed and new borrowing, France needs to find €400bn (£335bn) next year just to stay afloat. An extra 1% would cost French taxpayers €4bn a year. European leaders are under pressure to boost the firepower of the EU's multibillion bailout package after Belgium's credit rating was cut by Moody's, another of the top three ratings agencies. Moody's warned that indebted eurozone countries such as Belgium would find it increasingly hard to fund their debts or achieve economic growth in the face of Europe's austerity drive. "The fragility of the sovereign debt markets is increasingly entrenched and unlikely to be reversed in the near future," warned Moody's.


Rival ratings agency Fitch said it could cut Belgium's credit rating, along with those of Spain, Italy, Slovenia, Cyprus and Ireland. Fitch kept France's AAA credit rating intact, although it revised its outlook for the country down to "negative". The latest credit rating changes came as the EU released details of the "fiscal compact" deal designed to rescue the euro.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/17/french-credit-ratings-eurozone-crisis
 

Windsor

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Europe Is Now Officially Bazooko's Circus - Italy To Provide €23.5 Billion In IMF Cas

Submitted by Tyler Durden on 12/19/2011 15:04 -0500

The EU was already embarrassed into releasing a press release that it could procure €150 billion in Eurozone contributions to the IMF rescue, now that the UK is out of the picture and the December 9 Eurosummit agreed upon total of €200 billion including non-Eurozone contributors (mostly the UK with €30.9 billion) has been "adjusted." Now we find that the rabbit hole goes even deeper into Bazooko's Circus because according to a just released update, of the remaining meager €150 billion in funding, Germany will be responsible for €41.5 bn, France at €31.4 billion, and Italy will need to provide €23.5 billion and Spain another €15 billion. To, you know, bailout Italy and Spain.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/europ...y-provide-€235-billion-imf-cash-bailout-italy

Yup, it is really a circus there. Does it make any sense to you for a borrower in need of money to loan the lender so as to borrow from him? Well, this is happening in Europe and I don't know what the hell is happening.

I'm starting up a bailout fund, looking for contributors. We each chip in $10K and bailout each other for $100K. Anyone interested, let me know.:biggrin:
 
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Bigfuck

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Re: Europe Is Now Officially Bazooko's Circus - Italy To Provide €23.5 Billion In IMF

Submitted by Tyler Durden on 12/19/2011 15:04 -0500

The EU was already embarrassed into releasing a press release that it could procure €150 billion in Eurozone contributions to the IMF rescue, now that the UK is out of the picture and the December 9 Eurosummit agreed upon total of €200 billion including non-Eurozone contributors (mostly the UK with €30.9 billion) has been "adjusted." Now we find that the rabbit hole goes even deeper into Bazooko's Circus because according to a just released update, of the remaining meager €150 billion in funding, Germany will be responsible for €41.5 bn, France at €31.4 billion, and Italy will need to provide €23.5 billion and Spain another €15 billion. To, you know, bailout Italy and Spain.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/europ...y-provide-€235-billion-imf-cash-bailout-italy

Yup, it is really a circus there. Does it make any sense to you for a borrower in need of money to loan the lender so as to borrow from him? Well, this is happening in Europe and I don't know what the hell is happening.

I'm starting up a bailout fund, looking for contributors. We each chip in $10K and bailout each other for $100K. Anyone interested, let me know.:biggrin:
What's your exit strategy and how many times is it leveraged? Halfway through how many suckers will u call to join in the 100K bailout:biggrin:
 

singveld

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Re: Europe Is Now Officially Bazooko's Circus - Italy To Provide €23.5 Billion In IMF

Greek leaders postpone meeting as euro exit discussed

Pressure is rising on Greece's national unity government to agree tough reforms demanded by the country's lenders.

Greek party leaders once more postponed plans to meet on Tuesday and approve terms of a new bailout.

This comes as the European Commission's Neelie Kroes told a Dutch newspaper that there would be "absolutely no man overboard" if Greece left the euro.

But Prime Minister Lucas Papademos' office told the BBC that a draft agreement has been finalised.

A formal sign-off on the reforms demanded by international lenders - including a 20% cut to the minimum wage, pension cuts and civil service job cuts - is hoped to be concluded on Wednesday, the BBC's Athens correspondent Mark Lowen said.

Meanwhile, Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte also told public radio that a Greek exit from the eurozone now would be less risky than if it had happened in 2010 when its debt crisis first broke.

"There is less risk now," Mr Rutte said. "It is in our interest that Greece remain [in the eurozone] and to achieve that it must do all it has promised to do but if that does not work out, then we are stronger now than a year and a half ago."

But German Chancellor Angela Merkel said on Tuesday there would be "unforeseeable consequences" if Greece left the euro.

"I will have no part in forcing Greece out of the euro," she said.

Meanwhile, public transport and the country's ports ground to a halt as two of the largest Greek public sector unions began a strike on Tuesday in protest at spending cuts, tax rises and job losses.
Continue reading the main story

Police had to use tear gas to prevent some protesters on Syntagma Square from breaking a cordon around the parliament building.

'Tough' negotiations

The government held meetings with EU, International Monetary Fund and European Central Bank delegates on Monday.

Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos said the negotiations were "so tough that as soon as one chapter closes another opens".

At the same time, as part of Greece's new 130bn euro ($170bn; £110bn) bailout deal, private sector lenders are negotiating with Greece to write off up to 70% of the value of the money that the Greek government currently owes them.

The leader of the left-wing Syriza party coalition, which is not part of the interim government, repeated a call on Tuesday either for Greece's debts to be written off, or else for the country to pause its debt repayments for three years.

"The debt is not sustainable," Alexis Tsipras told Greek television channel SKAI.

"With the [debt restructuring], most of the [bailout] money will go to the banks and to the bondholders."

The Greek trade unions called for an end to the policies promoted by the government and the so-called "troika".

In a petition delivered to parliament, the unions expressed "opposition to measures included in the new memorandum which, aside from the dramatic impact on workers, it is also a confession of the dead-end economic policy followed and its adverse consequences on real economy".
'Good will'

Outside Greece, European leaders turned up the pressure.

"What's a man overboard?" Mrs Kroes told the Dutch newspaper Volkskrant. "It's always said that if you let one country get out, or ask it to get out, then the whole structure collapses. But that's simply not true.
Continue reading the main story
Analysis
image of Mark Lowen Mark Lowen BBC News, Athens

This is a day that shows the bind this government is in: as ordinary Greeks gather on Syntagma Square to protest against austerity, party leaders are locked in crucial talks on more cuts to unlock Greece's bailout funds.

The country is dangerously close to the financial abyss. If the loan money doesn't flow into Greek coffers within the next month, Athens will be unable to pay bond redemptions and would be forced into a potentially catastrophic default.

The framework of a deal to reduce the minimum wage and fire 15,000 civil servants is there, but needs a sign-off by politicians unwilling to back unpopular measures.

Once again Greece seems to be edging towards agreement at the eleventh hour - the fear of failure still appears too great to contemplate by Greece and the eurozone.

"The Greeks have to realise that we Dutch and we Germans can only sell emergency Greek aid to our taxpayers if there's evidence of good will."

A similar message was delivered with a more optimistic spin by Jean-Claude Juncker, chairman of the "eurogroup" of eurozone finance ministers, who said he had no doubt that Greece would remain within the eurozone, provided that it met its obligations to other members.

"The euro will outlive us all," he said.

On Monday, Greece agreed to pass a new law allowing more government employees to be fired - it is likely to lead to 15,000 civil service jobs being cut.

They are also likely to agree to a 20% cut in the minimum wage, BBC correspondents in Athens say.

The Greek economy is expected to suffer a fifth consecutive year of recession this year, and has already shrunk 12% since 2008.
 

Tailok

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Loyal
Re: Europe Is Now Officially Bazooko's Circus - Italy To Provide €23.5 Billion In IMF

With so much problem in the financial market, SGX is having it's mini bull run. Beware, you'll get run down by the bull instead.
 

saratogas

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Re: Europe Is Now Officially Bazooko's Circus - Italy To Provide €23.5 Billion In IMF

Mini bull run is becos investment house need to find places to park their money... Stock market is cheaper and still a good bet! At most cut loss when the real bear comes in...
 

Tailok

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Loyal
Re: Europe Is Now Officially Bazooko's Circus - Italy To Provide €23.5 Billion In IMF

Beware. When the penniy stocks run, the bull balls are shrinking. The bear will be in soon..
 

neddy

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Re: Europe Is Now Officially Bazooko's Circus - Italy To Provide €23.5 Billion In IMF

Greek leaders postpone meeting as euro exit discussed

Pressure is rising on Greece's national unity government to agree tough reforms demanded by the country's lenders.

...

The Greek economy is expected to suffer a fifth consecutive year of recession this year, and has already shrunk 12% since 2008.

All those vested interest gathering in summits - they are spoilt on keep the game on, when the spectators have left.

Greece will default. It will be a slow death. Japan is not that far behind, it is like an injured animal dragging itself for the past 20 years, the snare on its back has generated massive gangrene and in 2013-2014, it will seek a vet, I will hate to think what the vet say. (vet = seeking outside bond buyers for its massive govt debt)
 

neddy

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Re: Europe Is Now Officially Bazooko's Circus - Italy To Provide €23.5 Billion In IMF

Beware. When the penniy stocks run, the bull balls are shrinking. The bear will be in soon..

The calm before the storm.

We know that the storm is coming, but because since 2008, speculators are used to choppy waters and they will do things they usually do in claim waters. Remember, humans have great adaptability, but we cannot hide the numbers.
 

gbomega

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: Europe Is Now Officially Bazooko's Circus - Italy To Provide €23.5 Billion In IMF

All bullshit theory. Only a World War will RESET everything back to ZERO.
The leaders are planing, the crops are ripping soon.
 

Tailok

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Loyal
Greece is doomed to fail. In the best scene scenario, Sgx will drop 10%. Worst case, Euro also fail, then SGX drop 50%.
 

singveld

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Re: Europe Is Now Officially Bazooko's Circus - Italy To Provide €23.5 Billion In IMF

All those vested interest gathering in summits - they are spoilt on keep the game on, when the spectators have left.

Greece will default. It will be a slow death. Japan is not that far behind, it is like an injured animal dragging itself for the past 20 years, the snare on its back has generated massive gangrene and in 2013-2014, it will seek a vet, I will hate to think what the vet say. (vet = seeking outside bond buyers for its massive govt debt)

greek polictian bend backwards with EU demands again, it seem that the only one making noise are the dumb protesters and unions.
 

neddy

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Re: Europe Is Now Officially Bazooko's Circus - Italy To Provide €23.5 Billion In IMF

greek polictian bend backwards with EU demands again, it seem that the only one making noise are the dumb protesters and unions.

After I sit back and rethink, I realise that the protesters are not all that dumb. If they cannot even get subsistence living, they cannot grow and return the debt.

There is something wrong with the bailout package. I cannot put my finger to the exact ECB con job.

Greece is bankrupt anyway. The only difference in the 1970s and now is the amount of control over their own destiny.

If they leave the Euro and devalue the drachma, they can take a short pain & can set over again faster.
 
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neddy

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Asset
Re: Europe Is Now Officially Bazooko's Circus - Italy To Provide €23.5 Billion In IMF

All bullshit theory. Only a World War will RESET everything back to ZERO.
The leaders are planing, the crops are ripping soon.

Wrong, War need money and British, American and Japanese all printed money to fund the war. We all knew what happen after that! Decade of postwar austerity!
 

neddy

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Asset
Dont' miss this. by David McWilliams

The first 30" is introduction.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/oAR0VRLRGHE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
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