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Chen Show Mao's Chinese analogy sparks PAP debate

M

Mdm Tang

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http://sg.news.yahoo.com/chen’s-chinese-analogy-sparks-pap-debate.html
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Chen’s Chinese analogy sparks PAP debate


By Yahoo! Singapore | Yahoo! Newsroom – 11 hours ago.


A debate on the relationship between the ruling People’s Action Party (PAP) and the opposition Workers’ Party (WP) took centre stage in Parliament on Wednesday, with various references made to ancient Chinese history.

Three PAP MPs gave different takes on opposition MP Chen Show Mao’s analogy comparing the PAP to enlightened Tang Dynasty Emperor Tai Zong and the WP to Wei Zheng, a wise court official known for being frank with the ruler.

Speaking in Mandarin on Tuesday, Chen said in his speech, “In this term of Parliament, I hope the ruling party can be Tang Tai Zong, while we can be Wei Zheng. Let us create a peaceful, prosperous age.”

While lauding Chen’s refreshing style of debate, senior parliamentary secretary Sam Tan on Wednesday countered with a story of Wei Zheng, noting that the opposition MP should also not just parrot his party’s line, The Straits Times reported.

Tan said that when Emperor Tai Zong asked Wei Zheng about the difference between a good and bad king, the official replied that a wise ruler listens fairly to the views of all, while a poor ruler listens only to the biased views of a few.

He added, “Since Mr Chen aims to be like Wei Zheng, I hope that when his personal view differs from his party's, he will be able to look at the big picture and act in the interest of the majority instead of blindly following his party line.”

Tampines group representation constituency MP Baey Yam Keng, however, chose to focus on drawing lessons from Emperor Tai Zong’s good governance.

During the Zhenguan era, China was known for its prosperity and non-corrupt officials, said Baey. He added that the Emperor also understood that the relationship between ruler and his people is like the connection between a boat and water.

He mentioned the Chinese idiom “water can transport the boat but also cause it to sink” to underscore the importance of listening to the people.

On the other hand, Sembawang GRC MP Ellen Lee rejected Chen’s analogy, arguing that it was inappropriate to compare the PAP to Emperor Tai Zong as he was an autocratic ruler in a feudal era.

She said, “We live in a modern, democratic society and the PAP believes in being responsible to the people. In a democracy, anyone has the right to speak.”

“While the analogy sounds romantic, on closer examination, it does not hold water.”

The PAP MPs also suggested that providing alternative views and criticism does not solely lie in the opposition. Tan noted that some PAP backbenchers can be fiercer than the opposition when criticising the government.

Referring to Chen’s speech in which the WP MP quoted a Confucian saying that “gentlemen can be united while holding different views” to describe how the two parties could work together, Tan said this has been practised all along.

Saying that that the PAP is a broad church that accepts a variety of views and talents in its ranks, he cited Cabinet ministers Tharman Shanmugaratnam and Vivian Balakrishnan, who were active critics of the government before entering politics.

In addition, he added that the government’s move to allow Non-Constituency MPs and Nominated MPs also showed its commitment to gathering wide-range views.

Acknowledging that debate has been lively in the past two days but divided along party lines, Tan called for tolerance and unity of purpose from all parties. He referred to a couplet written by a Qing Dynasty official, he said, “Being in government is not about speaking many empty words, but about serving the masses.”
 

kingrant

Alfrescian
Loyal
What's the use of PAP MPs talking so big and so much about being contrarian when it comes to the vote, they have to follow the whip? Only now, they are sitting up to listen? Where were they all these years? Licking their bosses' asses?
 

Fook Seng

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Mdm Tang said:
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http://sg.news.yahoo.com/chen%E2%80%99s-chinese-analogy-sparks-pap-debate.html
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Chen’s Chinese analogy sparks PAP debate

On the other hand, Sembawang GRC MP Ellen Lee rejected Chen’s analogy, arguing that it was inappropriate to compare the PAP to Emperor Tai Zong as he was an autocratic ruler in a feudal era.

She said, “We live in a modern, democratic society and the PAP believes in being responsible to the people. In a democracy, anyone has the right to speak.”

This PAP MP actually pointed out to why the analogy of the ruling party to Tang Tai Zong is so appropriate.
 

Annoyed

Alfrescian
Loyal
Ellen Lee should get herself a dictionary. If the circumstances were exactly the same, it wouldn't even be called an analogy.

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On the other hand, Sembawang GRC MP Ellen Lee rejected Chen’s analogy, arguing that it was inappropriate to compare the PAP to Emperor Tai Zong as he was an autocratic ruler in a feudal era.

Physician, heal thyself.

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While lauding Chen’s refreshing style of debate, senior parliamentary secretary Sam Tan on Wednesday countered with a story of Wei Zheng, noting that the opposition MP should also not just parrot his party’s line, The Straits Times reported.

“Since Mr Chen aims to be like Wei Zheng, I hope that when his personal view differs from his party's, he will be able to look at the big picture and act in the interest of the majority instead of blindly following his party line.”

Acknowledging that debate has been lively in the past two days but divided along party lines, Tan called for tolerance and unity of purpose from all parties. He referred to a couplet written by a Qing Dynasty official, he said, “Being in government is not about speaking many empty words, but about serving the masses.”
 

ahpong

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Loyal
“Since Mr Chen aims to be like Wei Zheng, I hope that when his personal view differs from his party's, he will be able to look at the big picture and act in the interest of the majority instead of blindly following his party line.”

This Sam Tan has not been whipped by his pappy master before meh?
 

Goh Meng Seng

Alfrescian (InfP) [Comp]
Generous Asset
While it is very apt to describe PAP as a dictator like ancient Emperor, but it is totally off to say that WP will be like Wei Zheng; else it would be the case that WP will always be a "subject" or "court official" of PAP but this is not true under current situation.

In a Democratic setting, every opposition party will aim to be the ruling party one day. If that is so, would it be considered as "revolt" in such analogy?

Goh Meng Seng
 

ahkow

Alfrescian
Loyal
While it is very apt to describe PAP as a dictator like ancient Emperor, but it is totally off to say that WP will be like Wei Zheng; else it would be the case that WP will always be a "subject" or "court official" of PAP but this is not true under current situation.

In a Democratic setting, every opposition party will aim to be the ruling party one day. If that is so, would it be considered as "revolt" in such analogy?

Goh Meng Seng

In CSM' speech, he implicitly timeframed the relationship to be within the 12th Parliament. With only six voted WP MP, there is no chance WP can take over the PAP.
 

Goh Meng Seng

Alfrescian (InfP) [Comp]
Generous Asset
Whether now, past or future, opposition members will never be just a "subject" of the ruling party.

Goh Meng Seng

In CSM' speech, he implicitly timeframed the relationship to be within the 12th Parliament. With only six voted WP MP, there is no chance WP can take over the PAP.
 

sukhoi-30

Alfrescian
Loyal
This Chen Show Mao maiden speech made the ruling MPs and ministers wake up and take a special look on this new opposition MP. Chen quoted Confucius, Tang Tai-zhong, weizheng and even Chen Duxiu in his speech with LKY at the end as well. His speech was charismatic,deep and not boring as compared to the past MPs who lack the historical depth and analysis(except GY)..

Chen speech was immediately debated among the MPs but not one can compete with Chen. They punctured their speech with references to the figures mentioned earlier but it was shallow and not detailed. In a way, they opposed chen just for the sake of opposing..with little substance. it seems they have to rebut as are expected from them.. From their speeches, one can discern that their knowledge,skill and understanding of politics cannot compared to CSM.

However, credit must also go to the ruling party for giving a platform for opposition to speak as CSM has also said. Yes, they won and deserved it but the politics here are maturing which is a good thing. Whether ruling or opposition, they are all working towards serving the people and for the common good of our nation.
 
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Perspective

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Loyal
A dumb remark that is out of point. Whether Tang Taizong was an autocrat is immaterial. Emperors are not elected. But Li Shimin is one of the better emperors in history.
 

Perspective

Alfrescian
Loyal
While CSM's point was a good one, talking about a ruler with the power and officials that can only give advice (indeed the PAP is the one in power and opposition MPs can only advice), there could have been a better analogy. It gives the impression that WP wants such a relationship to remain and people forget that CSM was referring only to Parliaments of lopsided majorities. Also, the analogy applies more to PAP ministers vs PAP backbenchers.
 

HedgeTrader

Alfrescian
Loyal
While CSM's point was a good one, talking about a ruler with the power and officials that can only give advice (indeed the PAP is the one in power and opposition MPs can only advice), there could have been a better analogy. It gives the impression that WP wants such a relationship to remain and people forget that CSM was referring only to Parliaments of lopsided majorities. Also, the analogy applies more to PAP ministers vs PAP backbenchers.

Li Shimin forced his father off the throne and shut the fuck up. Same situation LHL and LKY. Same surname. Analogy and irony LOL
 

neddy

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
What's the use of PAP MPs talking so big and so much about being contrarian when it comes to the vote, they have to follow the whip? Only now, they are sitting up to listen? Where were they all these years? Licking their bosses' asses?

Is there a rule in PAP to toe the party line these days?

It will be interesting to see how PAP use dubious self-clapping words when debating with opposition.
 

Goh Meng Seng

Alfrescian (InfP) [Comp]
Generous Asset
The biggest irony is this: while WP leaders try to convince PAP to take criticisms as good bitter medicine, WP members and supporters go around to brush off criticisms or even subtle remarks, hiding their lack of principles with some weird perspectives....

Goh Meng Seng
 

GoldenDragon

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Whether now, past or future, opposition members will never be just a "subject" of the ruling party.

Goh Meng Seng

I don't think you are qualified to make that statement. But you are not alone. Many in the opposition camp are worse than being 'subjects'. And they are never subjects of the ruling party because another entity handles them.
Surely you can understand these 'special relationship' matters.
 

Goh Meng Seng

Alfrescian (InfP) [Comp]
Generous Asset
Of course I am qualified to make such statements!

Goh Meng Seng

I don't think you are qualified to make that statement. But you are not alone. Many in the opposition camp are worse than being 'subjects'. And they are never subjects of the ruling party because another entity handles them.
Surely you can understand these 'special relationship' matters.
 

lockeliberal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Dear Perspective

For what its worth a subtle remark to all and sundry about the need and role for an opposition. I would be the last to claim to be an expert in Chinese History and Nuances, but his subtle snide remarks about G Yeo and similar in Chinese , point to a need for the WP in the next five years. That they are an opposition, that the opposition is permanent and that its a loyal permanent opposition much as the PAP may not see the need for it.


Locke
 

Goh Meng Seng

Alfrescian (InfP) [Comp]
Generous Asset
It could be better put as we are Singaporeans' party, not PAP's opposition.

Goh Meng Seng

Dear Perspective

For what its worth a subtle remark to all and sundry about the need and role for an opposition. I would be the last to claim to be an expert in Chinese History and Nuances, but his subtle snide remarks about G Yeo and similar in Chinese , point to a need for the WP in the next five years. That they are an opposition, that the opposition is permanent and that its a loyal permanent opposition much as the PAP may not see the need for it.


Locke
 

Forvendet

Alfrescian
Loyal
There're no subjects in a republic, only in a monarchy. Different parties in Parliament may choose to agree or disagree with each other. They may even choose to form coalition with each other. Whatever laws Parliament as a whole agreed upon are assented in the name of the President.
 
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