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English Football My Foot

Ramseth

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Just sampling of the teams fielded by two big "English" clubs last night.

Liverpool

Pepe Reina (Spain); Sammi Hyppia (Finland); Jamie Carragher* (England); Fabio Aurelio (Brazil); Martin Skyrtel (Slovakia); Xabi Alonso (Spain); Javier Mascherano (Argentina); Dirk Kuyt (Holland); Steven Gerrard* (England); Ryan Babel (Holland); Nabil El Zhar* (Morocco)

Subs*: David Ngog (France); Yossi Benayoun (Israel); Lucas (Brazil)

By the 77th minute, Liverpool had no English or British players on the field.

Arsenal

Manuel Almunia (Spain); William Gallas (France); Kolo Toure (Ivory Coast); Gael Clichy (France); Bacary Sagna* (France); Abou Diaby (France); Denilson (Brazil); Carlos Vela* (Mexico); Andrei Arshavin (Russia); Robin van Persie (Holland); Sami Nasri (France)

Subs*: Nicklas Bendtner (Denmark); Emmanuel Eboue (Ivory Coast)

Arsenal started with half a team of French players and had no English or British players on the field at all times.
 

po2wq

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speak volumes abt how pathetic english futbol is ... really ... :wink:

n dey wanna tok abt winning ze world cup ... :p
 

Ramseth

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The managers of EPL clubs according to table rankings as of last night:

1. Manchester United - Sir Alex Ferguson (Scotland)
2. Chelsea - Guus Hiddink (Holland)
3. Liverpool - Rafael Benitez (Spain)
4. Aston Villa - Martin O'Neill (N. Ireland)
5. Arsenal - Arsene Wenger (France)
6. Everton - David Moyes (Scotland)
7. Wigan Athletic - Steve Bruce (England)
8. Fulham - Roy Hodgson (England)
9. West Ham United - Gianfranco Zola (Italy)
10. Manchesty City - Mark Hughes (Wales)
11. Sunderland - Ricky Sbragia (Scotland)
12. Bolton Wanderers - Gary Megson (England)
13. Hull City - Philip Brown (England)
14. Tottenham Hotspur - Harry Redknapp (England)
15. Newcastle United - Joe Kinnear (Ireland)
16. Portsmouth - (under caretaker)
17. Middlesbrough - Gareth Southgate (England)
18. Stoke City - Tony Polis (Wales)
19. Blackburn Rovers - Sam Allardyce (England)
20. West Bromwich Albion - Tony Mowbray (England)

There're 5 foreign managers: 3 in Top 5, 2 in Mid 10 and 0 in Bottom 5.

There're 8 English managers: 0 in Top 5, 5 in Mid 10 and 3 in Bottom 5.

There're 14 British managers: 2 in Top 5, 8 in Mid 10 and 4 in Bottom 5.

England, Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland are British; Ireland is considered foreign.

Portsmouth has sacked Tony Adams (England) and no new manager is confirmed yet.
 

Ramseth

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The last English manager to win the English league title was Howard Wilkinson with Leeds United in 1992. Thereafter:

1993 - Manchester United - Alex Ferguson (Scotland)
1994 - Manchester United - Alex Ferguson (Scotland)
1995 - Blackburn Rovers - Kenny Dalglish (Scotland)
1996 - Manchester United - Alex Ferguson (Scotland)
1997 - Manchester United - Alex Ferguson (Scotland)
1998 - Arsenal - Arsene Wenger (France)
1999 - Manchester United - Alex Ferguson (Scotland)
2000 - Manchester United - Alex Ferguson (Scotland)
2001 - Manchester United - Alex Ferguson (Scotland)
2002 - Arsenal - Arsene Wenger (France)
2003 - Manchester United - Alex Ferguson (Scotland)
2004 - Arsenal - Arsene Wenger (France)
2005 - Chelsea - Jose Mourinho (Portugal)
2006 - Chelsea - Jose Mourinho (Portugal)
2007 - Manchester United - Alex Ferguson (Scotland)
2008 - Manchester United - Alex Ferguson (Scotland)
2009 -
 

Ramseth

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Manchester United's postwar managerial records:

Sir Matt Busby (Scotland)

English champions: 1952, 1956, 1957, 1965, 1967
European champions: 1968

Tommy Docherty (Scotland)

English champions: -
European champions: -

Dave Sexton (England)

English champions: -
European champions: -

Ron Atkinson (England)

English champions: -
European champions: -

Sir Alex Ferguson (Scotland)

English champions: 1993, 1994, 1996, 1997, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2007, 2008
European champions: 1999, 2008
 

Ramseth

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Liverpool's postwar managerial records:

George Kay (England)

English champions: 1947
European champions: -

Don Walsh (England)

English champions: -
European champions: -

Phil Taylor (England)

English champions: -
European champions: -

Bill Shankly (Scotland)

English champions: 1964, 1966, 1973
European champions: -

Bob Paisley (England)

English champions: 1976, 1977, 1979, 1980, 1982, 1983
European champions: 1977, 1978, 1981

Joe Fagan (England)

English champions: 1984
European champions: 1984

Kenny Dalglish (Scotland)

English champions: 1986, 1988, 1990
European champions: -

Ronnie Moran (England)

English champions: -
European champions: -

Graeme Souness (Scotland)

English champions: -
European champions: -

Roy Evans (England)

English champions: -
European champions: -

Joe Fagan (England)

English champions: -
European champions: -

Gerard Houllier (France)

English champions: -
European champions: -

Rafael Benitez (Spain)

English champions: -
European champions: 2005
 

Ramseth

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speak volumes abt how pathetic english futbol is ... really ... :wink:

n dey wanna tok abt winning ze world cup ... :p


The last time (and only time) England won the World Cup...43 years ago.

The last time an English player (Kevin Keegan) won European Player of the Year...30 years ago.

The last time an English manager (Joe Fagan) led an English club (Liverpool) to become European champions...25 years ago.

The last time an English manager (Howard Wilkinson) led an English club to become English champions...17 years ago.

Number of English players playing or wanted in Europe now: 0

Number of English managers managing or wanted in Europe now: 0
 

po2wq

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The last time (and only time) England won the World Cup...43 years ago.

The last time an English player (Kevin Keegan) won European Player of the Year...30 years ago.

The last time an English manager (Joe Fagan) led an English club (Liverpool) to become European champions...25 years ago.

The last time an English manager (Howard Wilkinson) led an English club to become English champions...17 years ago.

Number of English players playing or wanted in Europe now: 0

Number of English managers managing or wanted in Europe now: 0

+ ...

ze last time n english player won fifa world player of ze yr ... none! ... :eek:
 

Ramseth

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Thats why they change the name from English Premier League to Barclays Premier League.

Yah, now then I notice. I heard GIC got investments with Barclays Bank too. Perhaps can flex some muscles send some Singapore players there.
 

Ramseth

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European Footballer of the Year Award was started in 1956. British winners were:

1956 - Stanley Matthews (Blackpool / England)
1964 - Denis Law (Manchester United / Scotland)
1966 - Bobby Charlton (Manchester United / England)
1968 - George Best (Manchester United / N. Ireland)
1978 - Kevin Keegan (Hamburg / England)
1979 - Kevin Keegan (Hamburg / England)
2001 - Michael Owen (Liverpool / England)

Nationalities with most winners:

West Germany/Germany - 7 wins with 5 players (Franz Beckenbauer and Karl-Heinz Rummenigge won twice each)
Holland - 7 wins with 3 players (Johan Cruyff and Marco van Basten won thrice each)
France - 6 wins with 4 players (Michel Platini won thrice)
Italy - 5 wins with 5 players
England - 5 wins with 4 players (Kevin Keegan won twice)
Brazil - 5 wins with 4 players (Ronaldo won twice)
Soviet Union/Russia - 3 wins with 3 players
Portugal - 3 wins with 3 players
Spain - 3 wins with 2 players (Alfredo di Stefano won twice)
Czechoslovakia/Czech - 2 wins with 2 players
 
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yansen84

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i think arsenal, liverpool and chelsea are a disgrace to english football. for clubs that have traditions so deepy rooted for them to be perennially mentioned as the 'Big 4' (granted, it was tottenham before chelski used money to buy championships), they have let their fans down big time. if i were a regular at the emirates/highbury or anfield, i would long have given up goin to games. there's no british/english element in these clubs at all and that probably explains why man utd are so dominant when it comes to winning the league on a regular basis. english football is afterall not like the game as played on the continent, where technical and tactical superiority counts. teams need a lionheart like rooney (used to be keane) in there and sadly that is an element lacking in the other 'Big 3'.
 

Ramseth

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FIFA World Footballer of the World Award started in 1991. The winners are:

1991 - Lothar Mathaus (Inter Milan / Germany)
1992 - Marco van Basten (AC Milan / Holland)
1993 - Roberto Baggio (Juventus / Italy)
1994 - Romario (Barcelona / Brazil)
1995 - George Weah (AC Milan, Paris St. Germain / Liberia)
1996 - Ronaldo (Barcelona, PSV Eindhoven / Brazil)
1997 - Ronaldo (Inter Milan, Barcelona / Brazil)
1998 - Zinedine Zidane (Juventus / France)
1999 - Rivaldo (Barcelona / Brazil)
2000 - Zinedine Zidane (Juventus / France)
2001 - Luis Figo (Real Madrid / Portugal)
2002 - Ronaldo (Real Madrid, Inter Milan / Brazil)
2003 - Zinedine Zidane (Real Madrid / France)
2004 - Ronaldinho (Barcelona / Brazil)
2005 - Ronaldinho (Barcelona / Brazil)
2006 - Fabio Cannavaro (Real Madrid, Juventus / Italy)
2007 - Kaka (AC Milan / Brazil)
2008 - Cristiano Ronaldo (Manchester United / Portugal)

Notice none of the winners played in home country clubs.
 
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Ramseth

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Where did the players of the England team that won the 1966 World Cup come from:

Gordon Banks (Leicester City)
George Cohen (Fulham)
Ray Wilson (Huddersfield Town)
Nobby Stiles (Manchester United)
Jack Charlton (Leeds United)
Bobby Moore (West Ham United)
Alan Ball (Blackpool)
Bobby Charlton (Manchester United)
Geoff Hurst (West Ham United)
Martin Peters (West Ham United)
Roger Hunt (Liverpool)

This is a strange team. There were no distinctive midfield. Goalkeeper Banks aside, Cohen, Wilson, Stiles, J. Charlton and Moore could all be classified as defenders, and Ball, R. Charlton, Hurst, Peters and Hunt could all be classified as forwards. Furthermore, there're no distinctive wingers among the forwards.
 
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silverfox@

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i think arsenal, liverpool and chelsea are a disgrace to english football. for clubs that have traditions so deepy rooted for them to be perennially mentioned as the 'Big 4' (granted, it was tottenham before chelski used money to buy championships), they have let their fans down big time. if i were a regular at the emirates/highbury or anfield, i would long have given up goin to games. there's no british/english element in these clubs at all and that probably explains why man utd are so dominant when it comes to winning the league on a regular basis. english football is afterall not like the game as played on the continent, where technical and tactical superiority counts. teams need a lionheart like rooney (used to be keane) in there and sadly that is an element lacking in the other 'Big 3'.

They didn't call themselves the Big 4. It was the media which call them the Big 4. U a man utd fan?

Anyway, Man Utd has which English stars? Rooney, Ferdinand? They were bought from Everton and West ham at transfer records. It's the whole league not just these 3 teams you mention.
 

Wayne Piew

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They didn't call themselves the Big 4. It was the media which call them the Big 4. U a man utd fan?

Anyway, Man Utd has which English stars? Rooney, Ferdinand? They were bought from Everton and West ham at transfer records. It's the whole league not just these 3 teams you mention.

Excuse me, are home-grown talent like Scholes, G.Neville French?:rolleyes:
 

Ramseth

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The English league is the oldest in the world and it has a peculiar characteristic, that it has never been purely English. I don't think any English clubs, especially in the top divisions, ever fielded any team that's 100% English players. It's British by nature traditionally, with Scots, Welsh, N. Irish and even Irish admitted as local players as a matter of course without immigration or work permit qualifying terms and conditions.

The breakthrough came in 1980 when Tottenham Hotspur signed Argentinian World Cup winners Osvaldo Ardiles and Ricky Villa; then it was on a 2 foreign players quota (foreign meaning non-British and non-Irish). There wasn't much problem with that, as Kevin Keegan made the breakthrough from the other side 2 years earlier getting signed by Hamburg of West Germany. He was soon to be followed by Tony Woodcock with Cologne also of West Germany and Trevor Francis with Sampdoria of Italy.

The European Union 1992 Maastricht Treaty changed all that and opened the floodgate. Freedom of movement of labour within EU countries includes footballing and other professional sports too. With the floodgate opened wide, the top and richest clubs felt they might as well source players from all over the world, since the limitation of foreign players per team quota broke down under the EU freedom of movement of labour directive. Non-EU players also can't be limited, as long as the immigration and work permit formalities and paperworks are complied with.

Actually, the first culprit of deAnglicising an English club was Chelsea under Claudio Raineri. In the his years at the helm (mid 90s to early 2000s) he frequently fielded 10 foreigners + 1 Englishman (usually Dennis Wise, captain and token). Chelsea under Raineri was proxy for an Italian B team. He got nowhere further than a consolation European Cup Winners' Cup, so insignifant that this competition was abolished.

Then came Jose Mourinho. To be fair to him, even though he's Portugese, it was under him that Chelsea regained some Englishness as a club again. It was under him that English players like John Terry, Frank Lampard, Joe Cole etc. flourished. And he was rewarded, or rewarded the players and the fans, with two English league titles. Like Sir Alex Ferguson, he managed internationalisation and retaining Englishness well.

The no-hold-barred internationalisation and frenchisation fanatic is Arsene Wenger with Arsenal. He's been quite successful though, surely more successful than Ranieri with Chelsea. However, his Arsenal team has always been more or less a proxy for France. Littel wonder that when France won the World Cup in 1998, Arsenal also won the English league. But why would the English league and the English fans want to host and support a team in London that breeds and trains and French and foreign players so that France can beat England? Beats me. But I'm sure it doesn't beat Wenger. Look at his team. French-speaking from France, Ivory Coast preferred. Makes things easier for him, yes? I'm sure he speaks better French than English.

The same trend of foreign managers biased to signing players who speak their native language was earlier seen in Raineri with Chelsea. It can now also be seen with Rafael Benitez with Liverpool who's looking like a very confused man now, cause he looks like really wanting to do it but is less blatant than Raineri or Wenger. It can also be seen in L-F Scolari's short stint with Chelsea, whose first knee-jerks were towards looking for Brazilian and Portugese players. Good club managers dont come in and change the club culture to his convenience. Good club managers manage the culture.

I think that L-F Scolari should go back to managing Brazil or Portugal, and Arsene Wenger should apply for the manager's job with France or another French-speaking country. I can't understand how Londoners and Englishmen can cheer for Arsenal.
 
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yansen84

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They didn't call themselves the Big 4. It was the media which call them the Big 4. U a man utd fan?

Anyway, Man Utd has which English stars? Rooney, Ferdinand? They were bought from Everton and West ham at transfer records. It's the whole league not just these 3 teams you mention.

excuse me, in which part of my earlier post did i claim they called themselves the Big 4?

It doesn't matter whether they bought or nurtured the english players. even if they had bought the english players (record price or not is irrelevant here), it shows the philosophy is one where homegrown players are given a chance, something which people like wenger and benitez wouldn't care 2 hoots about. It's true manutd have not in recent years produced any notable english/brit players, but don't forget titles are won with squads, and they've got the likes of o'shea, fletcher, and of course, an up and coming crop of promising homegrown youngsters.

anyway, whichever club i pledge my allegiance to doesn't really matter here. i'm just annoyed at how clubs don't give homegrown players a chance.
 
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