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Professor Lim Chong Yah: Singapore’s income gap approaching dangerous levels

Fook Seng

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Kinana said:
You can't debate, now resorting to threat?

The arguments are repeated again and again, why can't I repeat the rebuttal?
If you increase wages for the lowest income across the board, inflation will automatically follow. Its plain logic that has never been countered.
If you can't reason and debate, please don't get involve.

Then why is the government you love so much doing exactly that with the cleaners and the nurses? Try to understand what they are doing before you start blindly attacking any suggestion to increase low end income. Are you so sure that LCY was not instructed by some higher up to test water?

Increasing low end incomes even by as much as 50% wouldn't it have less of an inflational impact than a 10% increase on a high end income, say a million dollars a year. You go figure. You are saying increasing low end income, you will cause inflation but increasing high end income you are spare that. What sort of miracle is that? Sorry I don't believe in miracles and I do not wish to engage too much time debating with people who believe otherwise.

Nobody is saying that reversing a high income inequality is going to be painless. But this is the price you pay for two decades of senseless vpolicy making that pushed the inequality to the extreme that now needs correcting.
 

Kinana

Alfrescian
Loyal
Then why is the government you love so much doing exactly that with the cleaners and the nurses?
When there is a shortage of labour of course. Healthcare will inflate as a result, just you wait.

Try to understand what they are doing before you start blindly attacking any suggestion to increase low end income. Are you so sure that LCY was not instructed by some higher up to test water?
Unlikely cos LCY's suggest is too ridiculous. govt not so stupid.

Increasing low end incomes even by as much as 50% wouldn't it have less of an inflational impact than a 10% increase on a high end income, say a million dollars a year. You go figure. You are saying increasing low end income, you will cause inflation but increasing high end income you are spare that. What sort of miracle is that? Sorry I don't believe in miracles and I do not wish to engage too much time debating with people who believe otherwise.
Both are inflationary but more so for the lower income cos they have higher propensity to spend what they earn while the rich are more likely to invest.

Nobody is saying that reversing a high income inequality is going to be painless. But this is the price you pay for two decades of senseless vpolicy making that pushed the inequality to the extreme that now needs correcting.
LCY is suggest a quick fix that is not feasible at all, absolutely ridiculous. even the western world won't do soemthing like that.
His cure is worst than the symptom.
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
You can sell your house and cash out if you choose to.

Hey Retard, Once again, I ask u how u can sell something that does not belong to you. U are only leasing the flat from HDB, u don't own it. How can u sell something that does not belong to you? U telling me if you lease a car for 5 years, u can suka suka sell it to someone else and pocket the money without the car company coming after you?
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
Thanks, bro. Save me the trouble of replying to that retard. It's a pity that these PAP supporters are so lacking in knowledge and power of analysis that we can't a meaningful debate. But then again, if we look at how much the quality of the PAP candidates had deteroriated at the last GE, it's little wonder that its supporters are also suffering a decline in substance. But that's good news anyway since it can only mean more losses for the PAP at the next GE.

Yes, I have noticed the quality of clones hired by MHA and ST is really declining. When u are jobless and u cannot get any other job, u have to take these kinds of job trolling these type of websites on behalf of the PAP. If Kinana was not the mental retard he is, he would have gotten a real job by now.
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
can't fault the majority who happen to benefit from the greed. people vote mostly according to how their pockets are filled. same in america. same in europe. the oppo needs to understand this very basic democratic concept. otherwise, you're always a minority and fighting lost causes for losers.

What majority u talking about? Maybe the last generation (your father's generation) benefited when they paid $100K or less for their flats. If you bought a flat in the last 8 -10 years, and paid $400K plus for it, you wait long time to see any benefit.
 

Simbian

Alfrescian
Loyal
His approach only has probability of working if the government neuter itself and a host of other extractive, rent-seeking concerns in order to maintain overall competitiveness of Singapore.

Highly unlikely to happen since this will hit the establishment in the pocket directly and if history indicates anything, the people who are holding the cards have zero courage to interrupt the money flow into the reserves, TH and GIC.

At least his approach is bold and stir people to talk. The government's response is no response at all since it only concentrate on the poor but not the squeezed middle class.

Some of the forummers already said it, the only change you will see is only when GINI stays below .5 for more than a decade. Then we will see the PAP thrown out and perhaps a chance of overturning the neo-merchantile practices of the government.
 

eatshitndie

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
What majority u talking about? Maybe the last generation (your father's generation) benefited when they paid $100K or less for their flats. If you bought a flat in the last 8 -10 years, and paid $400K plus for it, you wait long time to see any benefit.

which period or decade in sg history do you see construction and occupancy of hdb flats on a massive (or largest) scale? not now nor the last decade.
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
His approach only has probability of working if the government neuter itself and a host of other extractive, rent-seeking concerns in order to maintain overall competitiveness of Singapore.

Highly unlikely to happen since this will hit the establishment in the pocket directly and if history indicates anything, the people who are holding the cards have zero courage to interrupt the money flow into the reserves, TH and GIC.

At least his approach is bold and stir people to talk. The government's response is no response at all since it only concentrate on the poor but not the squeezed middle class.

Some of the forummers already said it, the only change you will see is only when GINI stays below .5 for more than a decade. Then we will see the PAP thrown out and perhaps a chance of overturning the neo-merchantile practices of the government.

What u say is true, there is really no critical thinking in Singapore. S'porean brains like Kinana has been so lobotomized by the PAP, they cannot put 2 and 2 together. In the mid 70s to mid 80s it was not unusual to have a household income of $2500, but u could buy a HDB flat for as low as $50K. I recall NUS grads coming out were earning $1000 - $1200 a month than. Now, 30 years later, NUS grads (if they can find a job) are earning $1800-$2000 per month, but the a new flat now costs easily $350K. Since the PAP controls most of the inputs of public housing construction, this is just deliberate policy on their part to earn extra money. Back than, the HDB really sold u a flat at close to their cost. Now, the markup for them is a few hundred %.

So, what is the implication of just this one input factor (housing)? We know there are many other input factors controlled by the govt. lile utilities, petrol prices, vehicles, etc. But lets just examine this one housing factor.

Lets say the HDB reverted back to its policies of the 70s today and sold u a flat at cost or close to it. U would pay maybe $100K for a small unit and maybe $170K for a larger unit, versus $350K - $700K today. Your bank loan will be correspondingly smaller and your monthly mortgage payments might not exceed $700 per month. With a household income of under $2500, u can easily make your payments and pay for other items. U can take lower paying jobs because you will not be underwater. In today's economy, if you don't have a $3500 job, how to make payments on your new flat, and living expenses? With lower housing costs, people can accept lower wages, and the competitive nature of singapore is better, not to mention inflation is manageable. The price of housing trickles down everywhere. Kopitiam who pay less for their coffee shops from HDB will charge lower rents, and hawkers renting the stalls can charge lower menu prices and still recover their cost and make a living. And so on and so on.

LCY either knows this and does not speak out or is really so dumb that he cannot see it. There is no free lunch in economics. The govt. wants to put money in its coffers by fleecing sinkies into paying for inflated price flats. This results in everything going up in price and hurting S'pore's appeal to MNCs. The PAP counter that by bringing in over 1.5 million FTs who can and will accept much lower wages. This pleases the MNCs and allows them access to cheap labour. Why can FTs accept lower pay and sinkies cannot? That's because their cost base is in their home countries of China, India, Burma, etc. Its not in Singapore. They are not sending their kids to school here, or buying HDB flats etc. If they do this, they will be on the same playing field with sinkies. Instead, they rent a flat, 10 people stay in it, they cook there, occasionally rob a sinkie, and live very frugally. If you pay an FT $1500 a month, he can $1000 back to his family in his home country every month. For SGD $1000, his family will live like kings in his home village back in India, or China, or Burma, or Bangladesh, where ever he comes from.

What LCY does not realise is that for many sinkies, they have been living under less than ,5 GINI for a long time now. For FTs with cost base in their home countries, a GINI of .50 is still ok for them. No problem. If it gets much worse for them, they just go back, and by that time, they can retire nicely with the money they earn in S'pore. Unfortutnately, the PAP is now in a vicious cicle which they cannot get out off. Raise cost of living to singaporeans = put money in their coffers = bring in massive FT to maintain competitiveness = more impoverished singaporeans.
 

batman1

Alfrescian
Loyal
The PAP ministers with their abnormally high salaries and bonuses are one of the major causes of inflation.
 

cass888

Alfrescian
Loyal
Many rant about the "income gap" but I don't see why it should be a problem in the first place. It can easily be fixing by deporting all millionaires but how that would help any country is beyond me.

How about deporting all the whiners? The income gap would still narrow!
 

kingrant

Alfrescian
Loyal
Paying increaess to minions will not cause inflation. It is paying millions and then paying more bonuses and increaess to overpaid and underperforming Cabinet mninisters that actually causes inflation.

That is the reason for yr severe inflation and lowering of services. Just look at Nathan. What has he done?

Then not only will there be severe inflation and lowering of services, it will also result in loss of competitiveness, investment and then employment.
 

Kinana

Alfrescian
Loyal
The PAP ministers with their abnormally high salaries and bonuses are one of the major causes of inflation.

Not true. These folks are highly productive and worth their every cent. Instead of causing inflation, they reduce inflation due to their productivity and make Singapore a great country to live in.
 
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wwabbit

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
If our GINI is getting smaller, that means income distribution is flatter. Wats the problem with that?

I mean higher, not smaller. Sorry brain a bit upside down.
My point still stands though. The income gap is currently getting wider. Whether or not it should be reversed is up for debate, but there is an urgent need to stop it from getting wider and that needs to be done right now.
 
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Kinana

Alfrescian
Loyal
Read public responses to LCY recommendation. It seems economists and experts all disagreed with him and said its impractical and the reason is very simple. It is really ridiculous. You mean you can't see it?
 

Kinana

Alfrescian
Loyal
I mean higher, not smaller. Sorry brain a bit upside down.
My point still stands though. The income gap is currently getting wider. Whether or not it should be reversed is up for debate, but there is an urgent need to stop it from getting wider and that needs to be done right now.

Govt already increased subsidies to housing. What else you want?
 

aurvandil

Alfrescian
Loyal
do you actually believe in this cia bs? walk the halls of langley. even the top spooks there don't rely on what is in the public domain. they are published public numbers for a reason. why are sinkies so gullible and naive?

You will be surprised how much intelligence work involves interpreting what is in the public domain.

Let us assume that you want to have a metric that measures income inequality in a country. You don't want to use the Gini. Some key questions:

1) What would you use?
2) How would you obtain the data to implement the metric?
 
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