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Jesus was never qualified as the Messiah : read and learn

Dmode101

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Being a former well meaning god searching christian, I have finally found out the reason behind the truth of why christianity preempt converts to retort other religions and especially anti jew even before fully reading the old testament thoroughly.

read and realise why churches avoid important questions. God is real, jesus is defintiely not.

www.messiahtruth.com



Looking for the Messiah?

"Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place."
Matthew 24:34 (NRS)

There are a few kinks in Christian theology that the common Christian will encounter and ignore to avoid the discomfort that comes from confronting them. The following is a brief study of some of these issues.



Part I -- What is a Messiah?

Messiah comes from the Hebrew word for "anointed one," which is pronounced "Moshiach." Kings, prophets, and priests were all anointed. Hence, all were messiahs. In the Bible, you can break prophecy into two groups, immediate prophecies and long-term prophecies. Immediate prophecies are prophecies that take place not long after they are given. Long-term prophecies are another category altogether. These prophecies can all be construed as messianic, since they refer to the Messianic Era. These prophecies that refer to a future king are the ones that refer to the Messiah himself. We call him the Messiah by convention because all kings were messiahs, since they were all anointed. The following is a list of prophecies that show the theme of the Messianic Era.

World Peace



Isaiah 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. (KJV)

11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. (KJV)



This is not the sort of thing that passes people by.





Universal Knowledge and Recognition of G-d



Isaiah 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. (KJV)

Jeremiah 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know Me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. (KJV)



The last time I checked, those who didn’t "know the Lord" represented one-third of this planet.





The Resurrection of the Dead



Isaiah 26:19 Thy dead [men] shall live, [together with] my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew [is as] the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. (KJV)

Ezekiel 37:12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord G-D; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. [13] And ye shall know that I [am] the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, [14] And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken [it], and performed [it], saith the LORD. (KJV)

The Ingathering of the Jewish Exiles



Isaiah 11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea. [12] And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. (KJV)

Isaiah 43:5 Fear not: for I [am] with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west; [6] I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth; (KJV)

Jeremiah 23:8 But, The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land. (KJV)



This is the one prophecy that occurs most often in all of the Jewish Bible. While this prophecy has apparently begun to come true, we cannot say that is has completely.



The Building of the Third Temple



Ezekiel 37:26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set My sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. [27] My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their G-d, and they shall be my people. [28] And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when My sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore. (KJV)





The third holiest place in all of Islam is in the way of this occurring.



When all of these things take place, and a king descended from David sits on the throne, we will know who the Messiah is. Until these things happen, we shall wait. We have no way of knowing who that future king is until these things take place. The standard Christian argument is to thus claim that Jesus will accomplish these things in his "Second Coming." This brings us to our next portion.
 

Dmode101

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Part II -- The Second Coming: How Credible?

The convenient explanation of how Jesus can be the Messiah without fulfilling the prophecies is "he will when he returns." really?


1) There isn’t a single prophecy in scripture that tells us the Messiah would come, die, be resurrected, and then return thousands of years later to BEGIN his mission. Jesus didn’t do anything that the Messiah is to do.

2) You don’t know a man is the Messiah until all the messianic prophecies have been fulfilled. Jesus didn’t fulfill any of them, and as such, there’s no reason to believe he was the promised one, nor is there any reason to believe he’d return at some later date to fulfill them.

3) The Second Coming theory completely discredits his first coming. Anyone could have followers, and upon his death, those followers could claim that he had been resurrected, and would one day return. I could even do that.

The New Testament says repeatedly that Jesus’ return was imminent.



Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [31] And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. [32] Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer [is] nigh: [33] So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, [even] at the doors. [34]Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.(KJV)



Paul wrote

1 Corinthians 7:29 But this I say, brethren, the time [is] short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none; [30] And they that weep, as though they wept not; and they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not; and they that buy, as though they possessed not; [31] And they that use this world, as not abusing [it]: for the fashion of this world passeth away. (KJV)

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. [14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will G-d bring with him. [15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. (KJV)

Paul had to continually refine the date of the Second Coming when it never happened. The fact that it didn’t happen as they predicted necessitated that they revise the prediction, saying it would happen at some future date. However, the fact that the original prediction did not come true places it under the instructions in the Torah:

Deuteronomy 18:20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. [21] And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? [22] When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that [is] the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, [but] the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him. (KJV)

It didn’t happen. That means it wasn’t G-d’s word, and it wasn’t to be believed.
 

Dmode101

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Now you know why christian leaders and muslims sneekily make their followers avoid reading the torah laws CAREFULLY?
 

IR123

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Dmode101,

I read your posts with a sense of sadness.

Tell me one thing, will you grovel, scream, beg for mercy when Christ come back as Judge and all your words return to haunt you?
 

Dmode101

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Dmode101,

I read your posts with a sense of sadness.

Tell me one thing, will you grovel, scream, beg for mercy when Christ come back as Judge and all your words return to haunt you?

IR123, I would suggest you find out who you are talking to before you regret your sheol spirit towards me.

i am sure The Lord of Israel and me know the big difference between the meaning of "IF" and "WHEN", be it in anglo saxon english, or hebrew.

Have The lord of Israel spoken to you? If not, better think carefully and pray you take back those words. Do you know what are you really up against?
 
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whoami

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Have The lord of Israel spoken to you? If not, better think carefully and pray you take back those words. Do you know what are you really up against?

Not surprise his reply would be Lord of Israel aka Lord Jesus! :rolleyes:
And latest hoo haa...Lord Jesus aka Allah swt! :rolleyes:
 

Dmode101

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you obviously are a creep coming in will easy sarcastic oneliners instead of being sincere and retorting with your logic with the bible.

christians and muslims are a sneeky doctirne only the leaders know about their contradictory scripture. Now alot of well meaning scripture truth seekers are finding this out just like in recent times before the world war 2 where more people revert to judaism because of the truth of the law of the lord and many led better lives and knew how to treat one another with respect becasue the law teaches us in detail.

Christianity doctrine wants to crush gods law by coming up with jesus that never returns and also swiping the whole thick torah (old testament) under the carpet by a weak holy spirit idealogy (if everything can be guided then whats the point the bible? to spread jesus message? but jesus did not fulfill his second coming...so the holy spirit is a null arguement because the prophet paul teaching contradicts the greatest prohet moses who saw god face to face).

Muslim also always follow the law but half baked and sometimes come up with a different set of ideas. If Mohammed was a prophet he has to fulfill the prophecy in the torah, he not only didn't fulfill any, he wsnt even explicitly mentioned. to think that he was a prophet to change moses glory of the commandments and law?

keep trying harder because the rabbis now are pissed about being quiet. they will bring the truth out like before again and hopefully this time god will come back and help stop the powers that be that glorifies every wickedness and hides in deception, oppressing our lives now.
 
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wrcboi

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both........mohm story seem a smarter man...make use of the jew tale and yeshua tale and fabricate his own to cause fear among people and generate wealth and power....see his legacy still remains
 

Dmode101

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both........mohm story seem a smarter man...make use of the jew tale and yeshua tale and fabricate his own to cause fear among people and generate wealth and power....see his legacy still remains

very sharp of you.

Sometimes when i discuss and debate with fellow muslims, off course after very intense research and reading of the scripture, I will point out the character of god first and foremost because by and large the way of the quran written style reflects very differently to how the lord of israel go about things. That they dont eat pork but can discount the sea shells.:biggrin:

Based on facts the quran is the last installment of the 3 scritpures of lord of israel. The simple logic is that god did not appear in full glory to the xtrians and muslims like He did to the israelites when handing out the law.

So if these two religions want to replace or "update" obviously such big changes The Lord Himself would have to come down personally and change the Law so that people are not confused. But what happens is that jesus and mhd came by themselves using His name but without the glory of Him to back up physically like what moses happened at mt sinai - A VERY CRITICAL POINT. Infact, like I point out in deutronomy, The Lord specifically pointed out that ALL prophecy must be fulfilled THEN you can believe. The Law is reasonable and Just and is also a test for the believers (not for the lazy people who assume things before reading the law).:biggrin:

Discussion is a good thing. Hopefully more will to understand this point of view instead of censorship which may breed misunderstanding.
 

wowreali

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both........mohm story seem a smarter man...make use of the jew tale and yeshua tale and fabricate his own to cause fear among people and generate wealth and power....see his legacy still remains

do you know mohm dunno how to read, write and even spell? he only knows how to talk
 

Dmode101

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Deuteronomy 18

"Cease straying, my child, from the words of knowledge, in order that you may hear instruction."
Proverbs 19:27 (NRS)

This passage from Deuteronomy (which is discussed in a related essay) is quoted in the New Testament:

Deuteronomy 18:17 And the LORD said unto me, They have well [spoken that] which they have spoken. [18] I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. [19] And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require [it] of him. (KJV)
The New Testament quotes it here:

Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your G-d raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. [23] And it shall come to pass, [that] every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. (KJV)
If this is talking specifically about Jesus, I think we are entitled to ask for proof other than just the New Testament's say-so. Does that excerpt exclusively point to one single prophet? Could Samuel fit into that passage from Deuteronomy? Could Isaiah? Could Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Hosea, Amos, Zechariah, etc? It would be helpful if this passage from the Torah was read in context. G-d had just forbidden the people of Israel from seeking out fortunetellers, dark mystics, etc. Then He comforts us by telling us that we are not without Supernatural guidance, in that G-d will give us prophets. To say that this passage refers to one person (and there's no reason to think that one person is Jesus in particular) would mean that we were not required to follow the numerous prophets mentioned in the Bible after Moses died.

Jeremiah 1:9 Then the LORD put forth his hand, and touched my mouth. And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have put my words in thy mouth. (KJV)
We could just as easily say that this is exclusively referring to Jeremiah because the book of Jeremiah quotes that passage from Deuteronomy.

If a prophet arrives, claims he was sent by G-d, gives you a sign or wonder, and that sign or wonder comes true, and preaches nothing but adherence to the Torah, then the Jews are required to follow him. However, if that prophet tells you that any part of the Torah is changed, or that you should worship something that you hadn't been worshiping before then that prophet is automatically proven false, even if his signs and wonders came true.

So, in summation, both Christians and Muslims say this passage from Deuteronomy is about the central person in their religions. Christians say it's about Jesus. Muslims say it's about Mohammed. In reality, it's about every true Jewish prophet, spoken of in the singular. If it weren't plural, then it wouldn't warn about false prophets right afterward. It speaks of false prophets in the singular as well. I'm sure Christians don't think that there was only one single false prophet. And at best, that's all Jesus was.
 

wowreali

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then i guess you are a Jew then? then no point to waste your time talking about Jesus not the Messiah because you are making things worst here bodo! unless you got nothing better to do then i got nothing to say ahaha!
 

wrcboi

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then i guess you are a Jew then? then no point to waste your time talking about Jesus not the Messiah because you are making things worst here bodo! unless you got nothing better to do then i got nothing to say ahaha!

yeah i concur hes probably a jew......and there are heaps of ppl wasting time on jackie neo affairs then to "question" the company about more important issues of sg peeps daily lifes
 

IR123

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IR123, I would suggest you find out who you are talking to before you regret your sheol spirit towards me.

i am sure The Lord of Israel and me know the big difference between the meaning of "IF" and "WHEN", be it in anglo saxon english, or hebrew.

Have The lord of Israel spoken to you? If not, better think carefully and pray you take back those words. Do you know what are you really up against?


Dmode1, my apologies if my words hurt you. Not intended in that sense. Let me answer your points one by one.

1st sentence: it is really immaterial who you are but what you say. In your posts, you said that Jesus is never qualified as the Messiah. My question to you is this: What if you are wrong? What if Jesus is truly the Messiah, the One chosen to save his people Israel? If Jesus is truly the Messiah, then the other points about Him will be true - He will sit on the Judgment Seat and will judge all men including you. In which case, you will be confronted with your words of Him - declaring God's chosen as a false prophet, teaching others that Jesus is not the Messiah and maybe leading astray those Jesus had called. You have deliberately set a thread on this. How will you react then? I am sure that there are many who do not believe in Jesus but few of them set themselves up as teachers of the Mosaic Law.

2nd sentence: i do not understand this sentence. What has it got to do with the context in hand - that you should be careful about teaching the things of God.

3rd sentence: Has the Lord God spoken to me? Regarding what? About you? Answer is No. What I said was this: "I read your posts with a sense of sadness. Tell me one thing, will you grovel, scream, beg for mercy when Christ come back as Judge and all your words return to haunt you?" Again, if Christ is indeed the Messiah, then having to stand before Him to be judged and knowing the impact of your words which return to you, will you not be aggrieved and sorrowful?

Once again, at that time, if you are wrong, there is no turning back.

So it is important to see at this point in time, if you are right. You doubtless have your reasons. You said that you are a former christian. So you know what I am talking about that we must not sin against Christ.

Everything about this context hinges on this supposition: That Christ is the Messiah. If you are wrong, then there will be consequences for you. If you are right, then the Christians are sorely mistaken and according to you in post #14, are serving a false prophet. The question now is this: who is right.

I am convinced that Christ is the Messiah, which is why I feel sad about your words. You are entitled to your words and your logic. You have your position and I ask that you re-examine it - this I asked of you respectfully.
 
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wrcboi

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Dmode1, my apologies if my words hurt you. Not intended in that sense. Let me answer your points one by one.

1st sentence: it is really immaterial who you are but what you say. In your posts, you said that Jesus is never qualified as the Messiah. My question to you is this: What if you are wrong? What if Jesus is truly the Messiah, the One chosen to save his people Israel? If Jesus is truly the Messiah, then the other points about Him will be true - He will sit on the Judgment Seat and will judge all men including you. In which case, you will be confronted with your words of Him - declaring God's chosen as a false prophet, teaching others that Jesus is not the Messiah and maybe leading astray those Jesus had called. You have deliberately set a thread on this. How will you react then? I am sure that there are many who do not believe in Jesus but few of them set themselves up as teachers of the Mosaic Law.

2nd sentence: i do not understand this sentence. What has it got to do with the context in hand - that you should be careful about teaching the things of God.

3rd sentence: Has the Lord God spoken to me? Regarding what? About you? Answer is No. What I said was this: "I read your posts with a sense of sadness. Tell me one thing, will you grovel, scream, beg for mercy when Christ come back as Judge and all your words return to haunt you?" Again, if Christ is indeed the Messiah, then having to stand before Him to be judged and knowing the impact of your words which return to you, will you not be aggrieved and sorrowful?

Once again, at that time, if you are wrong, there is no turning back.

So it is important to see at this point in time, if you are right. You doubtless have your reasons. You said that you are a former christian. So you know what I am talking about that we must not sin against Christ.

Everything about this context hinges on this supposition: That Christ is the Messiah. If you are wrong, then there will be consequences for you. If you are right, then the Christians are sorely mistaken and according to you in post #14, are serving a false prophet. The question now is this: who is right.

I am convinced that Christ is the Messiah, which is why I feel sad about your words. You are entitled to your words and your logic. You have your position and I ask that you re-examine it - this I asked of you respectfully.


bro ur answers and beliefs are just based on the 2nd testament...and no one can proof that is true....everyone can write stories and fairy tales ...u can even write a third testament, make some edition, add a few lines here and there,..but people will be questioning ur credibility after writing.....

if there is really a yeshua and he is really to return..what will earthlings become?? will he dress in armani suits or a football tee with baseball cap??? will he listen to rnb music or jungle beats???will he get impress by ipad??? does he like chinese noodles or italian spegetti? rice or rissotto? will he drink tiger beer and go to zouk??

there will probably be alot of questions being ask? y is there so many race so many dialect and people with so many colours??

there are so many questions in both testaments that have to be questioned and not just read and believe

u dont have to believe in anything......just be good will do!!!
 

IR123

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................

That is why each has to do his own search and make his own conclusion.

For example your conclusion is 'to be good'. But that is not enough because it leads to at least two questions: 'what is good' and 'who is good'. Of that, there are so much arguments.

The other conclusion 'you don't have to believe in anything' will not be accepted by others. For example me. I believe that believing in God is everything - it tailors everything i do. Not that I am perfect - i am not saying that; not that i am superior - i am not saying that too. Even by itself, believing that all you need is to do good is believing in something and that something is akin to religion. The question then is a religion of doing good, enough to explain life and afterlife.
 
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