• IP addresses are NOT logged in this forum so there's no point asking. Please note that this forum is full of homophobes, racists, lunatics, schizophrenics & absolute nut jobs with a smattering of geniuses, Chinese chauvinists, Moderate Muslims and last but not least a couple of "know-it-alls" constantly sprouting their dubious wisdom. If you believe that content generated by unsavory characters might cause you offense PLEASE LEAVE NOW! Sammyboy Admin and Staff are not responsible for your hurt feelings should you choose to read any of the content here.

    The OTHER forum is HERE so please stop asking.

My thoughts on NS

P

phlebotomist

Guest
I've been going through many of my friends' blogs recently, and their comments of NS in general have ranged from doom and gloom to indifference to grudging acceptance. Thus far, I have refrained from discussing my own experience, due to the fact that mine has been a rather ... different life from the majority, and there's pretty damned little to talk about it in the first place. Which explains why I tend to take a backseat when others tell their own stories, content to soak in as much as I can from the sweatborne tales of my peers.

As my own term draws to a close (I'm being relative here, 3.75 months is short by most people's standards), I guess I'll just open up on some of the things I've reflected on over the past 1.5 years plus.

I was downgraded in SISPEC just over a year back, and was posted to my current department (notice I don't instinctively use the word 'camp' or 'unit' here) on 7th May 2007. SAFTI MI is really quite a wonderful working environment to have in the context of the other 'options' within the SAF. I was pleasantly surprised on the first day I came in, largely due to my impression of SAFTI as an ageing, dusty complex like so many of its compatriots. But I was to be proven so wrong. The contrast between SAFTI and the average SAF camp is pretty drastic to be honest.

CLD. "I work at the Centre of Leadership Development in SAFTI MI." Many atimes I have repeated this statement to friends and family alike, only to be met with blank stares and slight nods of semi-acknowledgement. Thus, to provide some hint as to our existence, I automatically follow up with the next line, "Oh, we do stuff like the 7 core values stuff" which tends to elicit more life out of the guys, together with smirks and sarcastic remarks (in a good-natured way). What does CLD really do? We develop and implement tools and frameworks for leaders to improve their management skills, as well as drive the SAF-wide focus on personal development. It's truly a backroom job, but trust me, ask any senior commander worth his salt, and he will grudgingly acknowledge that what we're doing is a thankless yet absolutely crucial job. Granted, the Boss may have built up quite a fearsome reputation for extreme enthusiasm and overall aggressiveness, but hey, you need someone like that at the top of a place like this. If you don't make yourself heard, who's gonna bother listening out for you?

What do I like most about CLD? That it's probably as close to a non-military organisation as you can get within the SAF, except perhaps the Army Museum. Now don't get me wrong here, I don't mean that there's no discipline and everything's chaotic or whatever. It's the people that make up CLD. While there are individuals with conflicting management styles and such, that's inevitable. I wish to highlight one major point, which is the one thing I am most grateful for in this place, and that is lack of an incentive to slack.

If that stunned you for a second, go back and re-read it. In some places, people who do things fast and efficiently get loaded with more (usually mundane / downright menial)work, or at the very least get berated for 'sitting around doing nothing'. Now what sort of attitude does this sort of climate cultivate? It's pretty obvious. There is absolutely no motivation to be task-oriented and efficient. Why bother to do things efficiently, if you're gonna get whacked for having 'free time' after that? You might as well take your time, and act busy. Sometimes this is described as 'wayang'. Amazingly, there exists a word in the English language that sums up this phenomenon perfectly. It's called 'boondoggling'. Dictionary.com defines it as "work of little or no value done merely to keep or look busy". Bullseye, no? To aggravate matters, a lot of superiors fail to think through the implications of their management policies, and take the easy way out. Which is to overload the hardworking, reliable guys (I speak from personal experience here, and yes I was in this category) while 'closing both eyes' with regards to the slackers. So guess what? The decent guys get thoroughly pwned for being 'good', while the slackers just vegetate more. In my book, that would be defined as ASKING FOR IT. I'm not even asking for gratitude or compliments of any sort. But such a system is just encouraging slackers to slack more, while quite literally PUSHING the good people over to the dark side. Brains, plsthx???

Anyway, enough of ranting (if you guessed that I was complaining about my SISPEC experience, you're spot on). Thankfully, such failings do not exist to such a despicable extent in CLD, if at all.

Reflections. People always assume by default that an active combat vocation is far tougher than a service one like mine. I whole heartedly agree. I'd be lying through my teeth if I said I was dissatisfied with the way things are right now. Yet, I have not laid back and taken things for granted. I like to believe that I am missing out on countless learning opportunities relative to my peers, if only to spur me on to try and do something worthwhile with my bonus time. Sure, having a driving license when you ORD may look cool to some. But you can always go for driving lessons after ORD. Some other lessons, you only get this one chance in your life to experience.

Time is a gift, but only if you spend it wisely. It can very easily become a curse, the moment your self-motivation and drive shuts down due to lack of stimulation. I think I've come through rather unscathed, thanks largely to regular visits to the library (maybe I should tally up the bookcount come November), driving (to a small extent), French lessons and my good ol' piano at home. WoW doesn't count; it just serves as an entertainment outlet to balance out the more serious stuff. My fitness (what little there was in the first place) has definitely suffered, but I'm working on it, and will continue to do so after ORD. Frisbee, anyone?

Work these days seems to be winding down, in proportion to my amount of time left (not like it's within my control). So it would appear that everything is getting ready for my departure (which is good). Many-a-times, I have asked myself, if I could do it all over again, would I have done it differently? For now, my answer is a tentative no. And not just because I have a 'good' life right now. Would I have gone through the full 9 weeks of BMT, training hard to get into command school, only to end up behind a computer? That's an emphatic yes. If not for BMT, I wouldn't have imagined I could march 24KM in FBO. If not for BMT, I probably would have been less aware of my fallibility and shortcomings. While I cannot claim to have made that many new friends then, their company was still greatly appreciated.

So you won't hear me complaining much about NS after the dust has settled. I'm rather proud of how I've managed to maintain some semblance of my mental faculties despite the intellectual backwater I find myself in at times. Though I wonder how I'm gonna explain it all to my kids, without destroying their motivation to strive towards achieving their maximum potential, when the time comes.
 

Geeky Dobbie

New Member
First of all, the title of this thread should be rephrase along the lines of "my personal experience while serving NS"

This is nothing but an introspective of one's fortunate experience of the slavery of NS.

Beyond a single favorable account, the bigger picture tells us NS is nothing but slavery under absolute authority.

1) There's no way you can object to serving NS, there's none such a thing as 'conscientious objector'

2) And here upon, you're under the bondage of the laws created a parliament in perpetual power, i.e. Absolute Authority, and in effect with no constitution whatsoever.

I think the term slavery is appropriate, and those who doesn't think so is in a state of learned helplessness.
 

High Command

Alfrescian
Loyal
Conscript pretty much sums it all except we get only an allowance :mad: . Unless...you are classified as a white horse. :wink:
 

eRRoRist

Alfrescian
Loyal
NS is just a big show. It only took a few men to show how complacence and incompetent our "Home Team" is. I'm afraid it's going to take a war to show what a big joke the SAF is. I hope it will never happen.

Lazy regulars who is just in it for the money. Can't wait to retire and get out of the place, going through motion everyday, push as much work as possible to NSF, NS Men. Whatever nonsense exercise they have, EVERYBODY just wants to go through motion and go home NS Men, NSF, Regulars. Screw ups everyday, wayang everyday, that's the SAF and everybody who has gone through it knows it.
 

pweesng

Alfrescian
Loyal
my 2 cents worth on army....

you will feel that it is a waste of time during it...

after it, i actually do some some good points about it.

1) it trains you to accept situations and learn to work with / around it.
2) It trains you to respect hierarchy of an organisation and learn that you have to follow the leaders.
3) you also learn that when you become a leader, you take charge of what happens, no matter where the fucked up are from. Delegate responsibilities and bot accountability.

Most of all, putting 700 to 800 guys in one place, the fellowship is often fun...

After the 2.5 years.... get downgraded
 

eRRoRist

Alfrescian
Loyal
1) it trains you to accept situations and learn to work with / around it.
2) It trains you to respect hierarchy of an organisation and learn that you have to follow the leaders.
3) you also learn that when you become a leader, you take charge of what happens, no matter where the fucked up are from. Delegate responsibilities and bot accountability.

Most of all, putting 700 to 800 guys in one place, the fellowship is often fun...

Yes, you might be "trained" on all these aspects and get to have some male bonding with all your buddies. But what is the ultimate and actual purpose of NS may I ask?? What is it actually suppose to do??

As far as I know, NS is suppose to help SG build an army which will defend the country when there is a need to.

Is NS able to prepare our young boys to do that??
Is our regulars able to lead us?? Have they been to a war before?? Have they actually killed an enemy before?? Do they know what it feels like to be shot at??
Is our trained commando, elite divers able to slit someone's throat with that bayonet they like to carry around?? Or are they just good at running really fast and far like a horse.
Have all the ICT, Exercises you have been to help you prepared for the role?? Or do you just drag your feet there, try to avoid as much work as possible, sleep whenever you can and hope that it will soon be over.

Answer these qns truthfully and we will know if it's worth all these time and money spent on doing something which fails to meet it's actual purpose but do have some side benefits.
 

123456787654321

Alfrescian
Loyal
NS per se is not bad at all I feel. It's a stupid pervasive Chinese mentality that makes NS become such a bad bad thing. I'm sure you know in ancient Chinese history the conscript is the lowest of the low in terms of social status. You only join the army when you have no land and no prospects and possess nothing at all, so you sell yourself for food until the day comes when you have to sacrifice yourself. Somehow or other this notion has carried on till this day. You put on the uniform, you cut your hair very short, you've just lowered your social status to the dust, here's the chance for EVERYONE in society to put you down. That's the Chinese for you. And it doesn't end there of course. Chinese being Chinese, once a conscript, always a conscript, nothing you do in future can "atone" for your "loss" of "status". No Chinese says it of course, but that's how the majority think. I look at the Malays and Indians, sure they may not like NS but they don't make such a HUGE deal out of it to the point that all they can talk about is how NS has "destroyed" their lives.

I don't have anything against NS per se. But since that is the period when everyone in Chinese-majority Singapore with the stupid Chinese mentality treats you like shit, who will like NS then?
 

eRRoRist

Alfrescian
Loyal
This is not a matter of whether we like it or not. If it works, it serves it purposes, like it or not just do it. BUT if it doesn't, it's just a big show, everybody is going through motion just to look good on paper, just to make a living, then what's the point of spending this huge sum of money and time??

Let's be practical, look pass all the nice ads, propaganda that has been fed to us from the time we were born. Does it or does it not work?? When I propose a project to my boss, it must have a purpose and it MUST meet that purpose. I can tell all sorts of cock and bull story about how it helps my project team bond, how it keeps them employed, how it will improve our teamwork, it's a good learning experience for everybody but if does not not meet it's goal, then out I go, end of story.
 

loafer73

Alfrescian
Loyal
my turn to share my 'thoughts'

1) rush to wait, wait to rush :cool:

2) seriously, i got doubt if our army can make it.
 

Geeky Dobbie

New Member
NS per se is not bad at all I feel. It's a stupid pervasive Chinese mentality that makes NS become such a bad bad thing. I'm sure you know in ancient Chinese history the conscript is the lowest of the low in terms of social status. You only join the army when you have no land and no prospects and possess nothing at all, so you sell yourself for food until the day comes when you have to sacrifice yourself. Somehow or other this notion has carried on till this day. You put on the uniform, you cut your hair very short, you've just lowered your social status to the dust, here's the chance for EVERYONE in society to put you down. That's the Chinese for you. And it doesn't end there of course. Chinese being Chinese, once a conscript, always a conscript, nothing you do in future can "atone" for your "loss" of "status". No Chinese says it of course, but that's how the majority think. I look at the Malays and Indians, sure they may not like NS but they don't make such a HUGE deal out of it to the point that all they can talk about is how NS has "destroyed" their lives.

I don't have anything against NS per se. But since that is the period when everyone in Chinese-majority Singapore with the stupid Chinese mentality treats you like shit, who will like NS then?

I have never even heard of such an absurd idea that the resentment towards NS is due to ethnicity. Frankly, your assertion is ridiculous.

You should perhaps ask:

Why is NS necessary in the first place?

Why should you be forced into such servitude?

Why you can't opt out of serving NS?

Why aren't you compensated par your economic value when SAF regulars are effective performing the same duties as you?

What is the opportunity cost for the 2.5/2 years loss to NS? The deferment to further education, the value of work experience to career advancement and remuneration.

NS claim to instill confidence and discipline to
young men, what about nations that does without NS?

If young men have to serve NS, why exclude women? Wouldn't that be discrimination?

Does NS ever offer any comparative advantage to the skills that is provided by increasingly highly educated cohorts of conscripts?

What about disruptions due to the requirements of ICT? Given such a liberal labour market, should you just pray and hope your employer wouldn't reach for the nearest Bangla paid in rupees?
 

hughgrant

Alfrescian
Loyal
NS is less important as technology improves and war is waged on hardware ie missiles, ships , tanks etc. thats why the duration of NS has been shorter and shorter
 

hughgrant

Alfrescian
Loyal
i have no doubt our army can make it....in times of national parade that is...seems like our defence is only good for wayang wayang shows like NDP...:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

thats quite true. all the generals very wayang also. got function or parade change into no. 1 with the shiny ambulet (did i use the right word)
 

birdie8819

Alfrescian
Loyal
i have no doubt our army can make it....in times of national parade that is...seems like our defence is only good for wayang wayang shows like NDP...:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

I do agree with you at this point , well like more than ten years ago when we're at Taiwan base camp for 2 weeks training those Taiwanese already said what are all these BOY SCOUTS doing here especially there's a big fat guy call Rambo who rides those scooters dun even needs a map and can reach point to point before us ( compare to those regulars who stationed there for at least half a year also ) . :biggrin: :biggrin: :p :p
 

Frankiestine

Alfrescian
Loyal
there's a big fat guy call Rambo who rides those scooters dun even needs a map and can reach point to point before us ( compare to those regulars who stationed there for at least half a year also ) . :biggrin: :biggrin: :p :p

i was in starlite in the 90s, my fuck up officer couldn't even find his way to the next deployment site after 6 hours and in the end had to get a local who guided us there...but shiok for me cos i just find a corner in the GS truck and plonk myself in a corner on top of camouflage nettings and slept throughout....:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
 
Top