• IP addresses are NOT logged in this forum so there's no point asking. Please note that this forum is full of homophobes, racists, lunatics, schizophrenics & absolute nut jobs with a smattering of geniuses, Chinese chauvinists, Moderate Muslims and last but not least a couple of "know-it-alls" constantly sprouting their dubious wisdom. If you believe that content generated by unsavory characters might cause you offense PLEASE LEAVE NOW! Sammyboy Admin and Staff are not responsible for your hurt feelings should you choose to read any of the content here.

    The OTHER forum is HERE so please stop asking.

Lee Kuan Yew's view on Singaporean Education

W

WeirdLogic

Guest
Recently, the front page of the Today newspaper carried a story about Lee Kuan Yew's latest public utterances. They quoted him as saying words to the effect (since I don't have the article anymore to hand): "We have educated Singaporeans in English to the highest of world class standards."

My first thought on reading this was that the Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew hasn't actually worked, as a teacher, in the Singaporean system and so doesn't have first hand knowledge of that which he speaks. I have taught in Singaporean schools and seen them from the inside over many years. What I have seen differs from how Lee Kuan Yew views matters.

There are two possible meanings to the statement he made: one is that the English of Singaporeans is "of the highest world class standard". The other is that the medium of instruction is English but that the content of instruction is of the "highest world class standard". From wide experience, I don't believe that either of these views is true. Singaporean education is not at the pinnacle of global education, as Minster Mentor Lee Kuan Yew seems to be stating - neither in the English imparted, nor in the content taught.

Singaporean education is typified by a regimented, rigid, inflexible, unaccommodating approach to students, in which they are, largely speaking, encouraged to be passive recipients in the educative process. Actual thinking is strongly discouraged by this approach. Interestingly, I have taught in Singaporean schools in which the students - local, native-born Singaporeans - show little evidence of the ability to think independently or to originate material. Apparently, this means that they have received a "highest world class standard" education.

As for the quality of English in Singapore - an honest Singaporean, who has had exposure to the English of native Englishmen, Americans, Australians or Canadians, would question Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew's view that the English education they have received is of the highest standard. In some cases, the English education received is of an abysmal standard. For instance, when my son Ainan was in his first year in school, I noted that his correct standard English use of tenses was being "corrected" TO SINGLISH, by his teacher. A teacher whose first language is Singlish cannot ever impart "highest world class standard" English to her students - she can only perpetuate her own level of ignorance as to what standard English is supposed to be.

My experience of young Singaporeans is that few have a high level command of English. The average Singaporean today, studying in local government schools, has, by international standards, a very poor grasp of English - probably just as poor as the teachers who teach them.

With effort, throughout the education system - and the employment of English teachers whose English is actually good, rather than terrible - Singaporeans could, in a generation's time, have "highest world class standard" English. However, they do not have this at present. In only the most fevered of imaginations, could the typical English standard of a typical Singaporean be termed "highest world class standard".

The first step towards solving a problem is recognizing that it exists. A few years ago, there seemed to be the recognition of the problem - with an anti-Singlish programme, nationwide. That initiative appears to have been halted. Now we have a "we are great, wonderful, excellent, the most brilliant in the world" programme that calls for no change at all. I rather think that the first initiative should have been continued until it succeeded - it would have done a lot of good for the ability of Singaporeans to do business on the international stage. As I have remarked in other posts, I have sometimes been completely unable to understand the English of Singaporean business people's "highest world class standard" English. By this I mean, there was NO shared understanding at all. I utterly failed to comprehend them. Yet, they were, supposedly, speaking English.

Singapore has come far, in many areas - but there is one area in which it has declined, terribly, since the British left: the standard of English now spoken is insufficient to optimize Singapore's chances on the global stage. That is the truth of the matter. Saying something is of the "highest world class standard" doesn't make it so. Taking initiatives to instil higher standards of spoken and written English across the nation, would, however, do so. Yet, that would mean admitting that the nation was not already "No.1"...there would be the pain of effort and change involved. In the end, however, the prize would be worthwhile, for the ease of international communication would have been enhanced greatly, to the benefit of the Singaporean people.

As for the other possible interpretation of Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew's statement that Singaporeans have been educated in English to the highest of world class standards - that the educational content is of the highest standard, that, too is easily disproven. It is a simple matter: if the local education was, in fact, the "highest world class standard", it would be the best in the world. If it was the best in the world, why do the brightest students, every year, go overseas to the USA or Europe to study? Clearly, these students are going far and wide to receive an education of a lesser standard, if the statement made was actually true.

The true standard of education is shown by how the people respond to it. Those who are able, respond to it by sending their children overseas to study. They wouldn't do this, at all, EVER, if the local standard was of the "highest world class standard".

I would like to see a Singapore in which both interpretations of Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew's statement were, in fact, true. I would like Singaporeans to have the "highest world class standard" of written and spoken English - for then they would be best prepared for the international stage. I would also like them to have received the "highest world class standard", education, in terms of content and skills obtained, for then they would be best able to operate in their various fields in that world. I look forward to such a future - however, that future is not yet here and will not be unless the deficiencies of the present system are recognized and put right either by the present generation of leaders, or those who shall come after them.
 

shOUTloud

Alfrescian
Loyal
First of all, I agree with you on the abysmal level of English in Singapore. In fact, if you have been reading the posts on sammboy forums, you would know that most of them failed English during their schooling days.

Having said that, I would like to state that you are making the right conclusion at the general level. At the elite level, where the precious resources are being kept to breed the "gifted cream" of each batch, I can assure you that they speak both good English and Mandarin. However, these lost souls will spit at you and tell you to get a decent job when you start complaining about having it hard to make a living at the age of 60.

The problem with learning English in Singapore today is 1. at the end of the day, it is not the mother tongue of most people. 2. the rigours of grammar had been abandoned.
 

shOUTloud

Alfrescian
Loyal
BTW, what I find worse than bad English is this mishmash of English and Mandarin that I always find Singaporeans uttering on TV. Everytime I hear a so-called celebrity being unable to complete a sentence fully in either English or Chinese, my skin crawls and I scramble to change the channel.

Thank goodness for ESPN and Discovery channel.
 

chinchai

Alfrescian
Loyal
We have educated Singaporeans in English to the highest of world class standards.

Why do we have to be constantly reminded that we are world class??

I'm beginning to suspect we have questionable standards in all departments :biggrin:
 

amadeus

Alfrescian
Loyal
To be fair, we should not judge our people just with the way they speak. Education also includes the written part. Of course many of our Singaporeans cannot write well in English too.

I know of many Singaporeans who may speak Singlish but you will be amazed by their clear written English. They may not speak polished English though.

In fact, when you listen to the English footballers' interviews, some of their spoken English may not necessarily be as good as the average Singaporeans although they speak with their native English accent. But I have no chance to see their written English.

If you have travelled to many parts of the world, you will find that Singapore is indeed a unique Asian country where the standard of English is relatively high as compared to many of her Asian counterparts and countries from other continents.

Thus, I believe Mr Lee Kuan Yew has good grounds to think like that.
 

bebo

Alfrescian
Loyal
Lee Kuan Yew's view..

The old idiot think he still pull weight.

I wish he would go away and the country can save in the $3 millions dollars paid to him as MM.
 

tonychat

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
To be fair, we should not judge our people just with the way they speak. Education also includes the written part. Of course many of our Singaporeans cannot write well in English too.

I know of many Singaporeans who may speak Singlish but you will be amazed by their clear written English. They may not speak polished English though.

In fact, when you listen to the English footballers' interviews, some of their spoken English may not necessarily be as good as the average Singaporeans although they speak with their native English accent. But I have no chance to see their written English.

If you have travelled to many parts of the world, you will find that Singapore is indeed a unique Asian country where the standard of English is relatively high as compared to many of her Asian counterparts and countries from other continents.

Thus, I believe Mr Lee Kuan Yew has good grounds to think like that.

If you need someone to tell you if you are good or not, then i really think u need to reflect more on yourself. Why you u want others to give you marks where a human brain and ability can go further than that?
 

shOUTloud

Alfrescian
Loyal
If you need someone to tell you if you are good or not, then i really think u need to reflect more on yourself. Why you u want others to give you marks where a human brain and ability can go further than that?

Coming from someone who reports what his Thai friends think of Singapore, please reflect on yourself as well.
 

yinyang

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Issue here is taking umbrage at the old man's broad assertion that this little red dot has afforded education in english to world class standards. Does this necessarily infer that our english is top end?

Can't say our standard of english is par excellence, but relative to our neigbouring SEA countries think we are not doing too bad. Across the causeway (similiar colonial past), there're regrets on relegating english to bahasa some decades back.
..problem with learning English in Singapore today is 1. at the end of the day, it is not the mother tongue of most people. 2. the rigours of grammar had been abandoned.
Not disagree with your 1st bit. Moot point on 2nd. No doubt grammar's essential groundwork, but the (living) english language is much more than that.
WeirdLogic said:
..If it was the best in the world, why do the brightest students, every year, go overseas to the USA or Europe to study? Clearly, these students are going far and wide to receive an education of a lesser standard, if the statement made was actually true
Different league, creme la creme? Easy to lend credence to our opinion or interpretation by nit picking on some broad assertion. On flip side, don't we not insignificant inflow foreign students, Asean and other nationals included? And even Sg "international" schools in places like China?

Just my humble 2 cents worth to avoid skewed bias. Btw, can't help noting Sg "self-criticism" is kind of prevalent in other threads here (but I digress..)
 
Last edited:

kaipoh

Alfrescian
Loyal
BTW, what I find worse than bad English is this mishmash of English and Mandarin that I always find Singaporeans uttering on TV. Everytime I hear a so-called celebrity being unable to complete a sentence fully in either English or Chinese, my skin crawls and I scramble to change the channel.

Thank goodness for ESPN and Discovery channel.

classic example our ministool Lim "seah soil" ms foo.... their vocal linguistic ability suck big time!
don't blame the peasants speak poor english.
 
Top